condi mesmer with confusion damage getting more and more out of hand recently

[arazoth.7290]

I keep seeing more and more condi mesmers with lot of high instant confusion stacks on mirage/virtuosa pulling out 4,7k confusion damage. 

I rarely make a thread about something for some tuning because mostly there is always some counter play. But the amount of high instantly confusion stacks/reapplied short after each other with other damage from others + some cc on you makes it too much. Keep in mind I do dodge these stupid things mostly but they require too much attention while other enemies you shouldn't lose sight of either during a fight and bc of that can't always be avoided and too hard punishment.

It's not like it's gradually stacking up that you look out for it stacking up, it's instant 25 stacks I have seen applied by few skills that hit at the same time.

Now against Mirages, blocks can do little bit more the trick to avoid that insane amount if burst damage high stacks by blocks. But virtuoso last night I had block up vs other enemies too and I got 25 stack instant, 1 second after followed by 10 more 😂 because also unblockables troll. Unblockables aren't the problem, it is just a lucky side effect because of the high confusion condi bursts.

I have zero problems with condi builds like condi reaper, condi rangers and other condi builds that stack more gradually up. They have more counter play against them. But confusion stacking like that fast/high/repetitive same time gets me to press a condi cleanse even.

I know you can dodge/block to prevent a lot condi damage like vs these others and always there are some that get through, that's fine. But mesmers with their confusion are getting more bold with this. 

For example I get condi bombed okayy, I can cleanse that but also cc'd same time so I have to use a stunbreak first. If I don't do anything I die for trying to even wait the confusion stacks out. Because of this I can't press a stunbreak/cleanse because that would have resulted in 9,4k confusion damage by activating it twice, because of too ez high amount burst stacks. 

These high amount burst confusion condi stacks that are ez reapplied fast are too punishing for skills that you have to press in a fight to keep going. Because you keep getting other conditions ticking and power damage from others too, you shouldn't be able to do noting because insane confusion stacks.

confusion condition is fine to counter classes who have to press many skills on and on like eles, holos and some more. But the moment it can be applied in stacks of 20, followed 5-10 shortly after to reach 30+, makes cleansing it even punishing.

Reduce little the amount stacks they can apply/ little the time to reapply for more. So that they can't stack up above 20 and also not so fast instantly to 20 anymore, little bit more gradually now. They will still be able to do 2-2,5k confusion damage which is more then enough for pvp, this aint pve.

[Axl.8924]

Guess its time to jump onto virtuoso to see how effective confusion condi stacks are

[Frequency.6407]

Just dodge run

[arazoth.7290]

18 minutes ago, Frequency.6407 said:

Just dodge run

Meanwhile other condi damage ticking/people following you. You can't press your other "run" skills, because 4,5 k condi activating. 

I have no problem with condi damage, I use condi builds myself on rev for example. But on these you don't have the toxic amount of instantly high burst stacks/fast reapplies of these a lot. Also it doesn't has confusion baseline so it's easier to counter, fine imo.

 

[Flowki.7194]

As much as I hate the concept of confusion, and condi bombs in general, the passive/direct/conversion of condi across most specs (power or condi) is oppressive af to "balanced" condi specs, while some also have decent resolotion uptime. It seems enevitable that bombing of confusion+XYZ specs are the very few that can compete with power specs, or out dps the general oppressive claense to beat other condi specs. On my spec (you know it ofc), it is simply a given when aproaching a power spec for a 1v1, that it will be able to reset from being outplayed multiple times, yet I only have to fail once to go 100-0. The balance is tilted so much toward power, yet confusion bombs offer are a toxic band aid counter, nobody really wins in terms of good encounters between power/condi.

 

I did fight a condi mes yeasterday in ranked, and I sware the guy was just auto attacking, or spaming 1 ability. I never played condi mes so not sure what he was doing.. but dps wise, it wasnt much. Who knows, could have been a bot, or is it just that brainded of a spec?

 

 

Edited June 1 by Flowki.7194

[Waffles.5632]

Proof none of you even play Mes, nor attempt to learn anything outside your class.

You can't just scream "nerf condi on Mes!" and leave it at that.

Which skills are you referring to? And which parts of those skills feel too much for you?

Instead of coming here to blanket rage on the forums, I suggest going towards the wiki and finding out exactly which skills on Mes are making you feel this way. You might just learn something that will improve your pvp experience.

 

Here, for you all;

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mesmer

Edited June 1 by Waffles.5632

[arazoth.7290]

3 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Proof none of you even play Mes, nor attempt to learn anything outside your class.

You can't just scream "nerf condi on Mes!" and leave it at that.

Which skills are you referring to? And which parts of those skills feel too much for you?

Instead of coming here to blanket rage on the forums, I suggest going towards the wiki and finding out exactly which skills on Mes are making you feel this way. You might just learn something that will improve your pvp experience.

 

Here, for you all;

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mesmer

They probably press multipble, but they hit at the same time to get 20 instant stack of confusion.

I am not talking about nerf entire condi on mesmer. If you read the title even, I said confusion condi. Confusion condi is controllable till certain amounts, but recently I see more and more putting up 4,5-4,7k damage by this. That's too much for instant burst confusion stacks applied that it becomes out of control because of how this mechanical works

[arazoth.7290]

4 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Mfers will facetank a shatter visible from stealth with 1.15s windup time (unaffected by quickness) and then complain on the forum about "INSTANT CONFUSION BURST"

From times it can be avoided but like every skill from any class it can't 

Otherwise people would be able to avoid all damage and immortal in pvp in your theory.

The high instant confusion stack amount burst 20+ till amounts of 30+ if you're even cc'd by some other before it happened. So now if you try to stunbreak and cleanse you're instantly dead because of this already?

The amount of burst stacks it can be applied with instantly is too much and reapplied nicely after even ontop of this.

 

If a power damage skill hits too much, it gets nerfed, so should it be for condi damage in such cases. I know you're using this many times aside your power build yourself and trying to defend it 😉

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Dodge F2 maybe?

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, arazoth.7290 said:

The amount of burst stacks it can be applied with instantly is too much and reapplied nicely after even ontop of this.

But it's not instant.

And the comparison with power doesn't hold: with power you get hit you die. With f2 you can dodge, but you can also cleanse afterwards, but you can also not press buttons and wait the confusion out. Just how much do you need to get outplayed before you actually die?

Virtuoso has a problem with excess survivability (signet of illusions is even better on them, then there's blade renewal, then the usual mesmer stuff like mass invis, then there's now access to shield), that I'll give. Not with damage though.

And just for the record

1 hour ago, arazoth.7290 said:

I know you're using this many times aside your power build yourself and trying to defend it

Is a monkey take. What I do play doesn't affect the validity of my arguments.
Even if it did, I don't play condi virtuoso and never have, so IDK what you're trying to insinuate.

Edited June 1 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Hotride.2187]

I barely saw staff mesmers in the last year or so, more even. Now I see them frequently. No idea what changed, but I never liked fighting staff mesmer. I wasnt sad to not see them ingame.

[Flowki.7194]

46 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

From times it can be avoided but like every skill from any class it can't 

Otherwise people would be able to avoid all damage and immortal in pvp in your theory.

The high instant confusion stack amount burst 20+ till amounts of 30+ if you're even cc'd by some other before it happened. So now if you try to stunbreak and cleanse you're instantly dead because of this already?

The amount of burst stacks it can be applied with instantly is too much and reapplied nicely after even ontop of this.

 

If a power damage skill hits too much, it gets nerfed, so should it be for condi damage in such cases. I know you're using this many times aside your power build yourself and trying to defend it 😉

Mesmers are like thieves, youre not gune get anything less than 100% defence comments.

[arazoth.7290]

39 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

But it's not instant.

 

cast times aint instant, but the 20 stack amount gets instant on you when multipble casts before the launch hits you.

I have even delibaterly took a few in unranked while watching this happen, just to check it out. I watched that amount poof after these casts hit yes then.

This amount for pvp is too much that can be applied, this is pvp not pve. + hiw confusion mechanically works, makes it too oppressive at these high amounts.

 

And waiting confusion out maybe in FFA 1v1 arena yes. In teamfights with others doing damage while applying other condis and cc's even, you should wait the confusion out? you can't sit/run like a duck then. The amount of stacks/damage/reapply should be reasonable (which isn't). 

Also I said you played condi on mesmer, never said specific which spec from the class

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Dodge F2 maybe?

And if some specific skill isn't dodged because many reasons I have said multiple times in this thread already, then zero counterplay should be the answer for these obscene amount of confusion high stack bursts?

Any power skill that does obscene amount people in here scream for nerfs, why should condi be different? These high amounts make it similar to power burst damage wise...

[Terrorhuz.4695]

9 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

the 20 stack amount gets instant on you when multipble casts before the launch hits you.

I have literally no idea what any of that could even possibly mean. Skill has 0.35s cast time (this can be covered by stealth\hastened by quickness), then projectiles float for 0.7s, then there's the travel time (this is NOT covered by stealth nor hastened by quickness). What do you mean "instant on you" when nothing about the skill is instant?

[lets get it on.3591]

But it's ok for a thief to be invisible and then stab you in the back for 9000k.......twice

[Hightop.8294]

The patch will buff axe condi is not even out yet, ppl complain preemptively on forum now?

1 hour ago, arazoth.7290 said:

They probably press multipble

Probably, probably not, seems we are in wonderland. I am not a condi mesmer fan myself but may you guys please inform yourself about what the class is doing, so you know what to complain about? No one can take any complain serious being so clueless about the build gets complained about. All i read here is " i have no clue what hits me when but it feels op". 

[arazoth.7290]

59 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I have literally no idea what any of that could even possibly mean. Skill has 0.35s cast time (this can be covered by stealth\hastened by quickness), then projectiles float for 0.7s, then there's the travel time (this is NOT covered by stealth nor hastened by quickness). What do you mean "instant on you" when nothing about the skill is instant?

You have no idea? But yet you explained it at the same time.

0,35 secs cast time on these skills while it stays floating 0,7 seconds in the air before they hit. That's what I meant, you prep ez multipbles at once that at the same time hit and give this spike condi damage big stacks.

Lots of times you can see it coming but can't always evade. Bc not going to sum again the many reasons again, although I have a feeling it's needed many times.

confusion stacks beyond 20 gets toxic because of the way the condition functions. And like I will day again, it aint helping that this amount gets applied the same time or so shortly after each other like it is currently.

[arazoth.7290]

58 minutes ago, Hightop.8294 said:

The patch will buff axe condi is not even out yet, ppl complain preemptively on forum now?

 

Nono don't get me wrong here, I am not talking about that patch even. I am talking what I see in ranked games currently a lot then I used to.

I even 3 double checked my combat logg if I saw that amount right multipble times to confirm if it was just 1 player using such. But apparantly mutlipble are.

The patch will just make it more popular. I don't have a problem with the other condis from them/amount, it's just the way that 1 one is.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Rev main has no problem with Torment but big problems with Confusion.

News at 10.  

[arazoth.7290]

here all the mesmer mains defending something broken, irony isn't it, all confused now (pun intended)

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, arazoth.7290 said:

here all the mesmer mains defending something broken, irony isn't it, all confused now (pun intended)

Bladesong sorrow isn't that big a deal. You have to eat the entire bladesong then be oblivious to your confusion stacks long enough to down yourself. 

Odds are the virt is slower than you, too. You can just leave whenever. 

Coming from a war main who hates most interactions with mesmers like they hate most thieves. 

Edited June 1 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shagie.7612]

5 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Rev main has no problem with Torment but big problems with Confusion.

brother in what world is torment even comparable to confusion
they haven't been similarly punishing conditions since 2021 when they flipped the moving/non-moving damage lol

[Gotejjeken.1267]

33 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

brother in what world is torment even comparable to confusion
they haven't been similarly punishing conditions since 2021 when they flipped the moving/non-moving damage lol

I can get 3-4k torment ticks on Ranger, brother.  Rev can tick far higher, comparable damage to confusion--problem with confusion is people have no idea what a stow weapon key is and mindlessly blow themselves up swinging at air.    

Maybe they should change it so it only works when you aren't activating a skill, so the auto attackers can claim its finally fair and balanced.  

[Shagie.7612]

14 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I can get 3-4k torment ticks on Ranger, brother.  Rev can tick far higher, comparable damage to confusion

Rev has essentially zero immobilize on condi builds, so no it's not lol
It has a singular 1.5s immob on Icerazor. You'd get a single tick out of that.

They're not the same. Confusion hurts you for pressing buttons, Torment no longer does so.
You're comparing condition damage as a whole to a punishment effect anyways.

Yeah, you can get some pretty high singular condition ticks if nobody dodges it, but Torment is also like 95% of condi rev's damage, and the condi mes would be doing just as much IN ADDITION to the confusion pain if it landed similar numbers of attacks, it'd just be split across multiple things.

They're really not that comparable anymore other than them being condition damage. They're not similarly functioning conditions anymore.

Edited June 2 by Shagie.7612