This may be unpopular, but an easy Skyscale mount?

[Manpag.6421]

13 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I don't see how it's different to HoT and the gliders and HoT (these days) is regarded by many to be the best expansion in the game.

Agreed. I've said it before, but from a mastery access/participation perspective, SotO does better than HoT because the metas progressively need progressively more masteries to fully participate. The Skywatch meta doesn't need any skyscale masteries to fully join in, vs Verdant Brink meta which needs you to have at least level 2 gliding mastery if you want to do all the bosses, plus a staggering 4 levels in Nuhoch lore if you want to actually see where Axemaster Gwyllion goes.

HoT maps are amazing, but SotO is definitely paced better. 

[Trejgon.9367]

14 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Yes, absolutely, but it's worth mentioning that in order to unlock those masteries, you have to go through the process of getting both skyscales. It's a long haul, particularly for the Season 4 skyscale..

Only if you start with soto version of it. If you start with season 4 skyscale (which gets considerably shorter with "return to..." achievements) you can completely omitt "new friend" collection and get both masteries leveled (new friend even requires you to level soto mastery).

[Kitty.4806]

On 6/4/2024 at 2:28 PM, Astewart.8415 said:

This may be unpopular, but what I really want in the expansion is a way to get the Skyscale mount without  a week of grinding. I'd even pay gems or something, but to be honest what has kept me from coming back to the game is looking at the grind for these now almost mandatory mounts on Youtube. 

You're INSANE. It's soooo easy. I did it in one day.

I first did the LWS4 skyscale over a few MONTHS.

Trolling??

[Vayne.8563]

7 hours ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

Only if you start with soto version of it. If you start with season 4 skyscale (which gets considerably shorter with "return to..." achievements) you can completely omitt "new friend" collection and get both masteries leveled (new friend even requires you to level soto mastery).

Thanks for this, I never realized this, and I should have, considering I've done it on two accounts, one of which I did "A New Friend" achievement and one of which I didn't. lol

[Pinkeh.4207]

I got my skyscale in 10 days with the lws4 method. Is 10 days that long? 

It took me 6 months for Fractal God and 8 months for Envoy's Herald. 

 

Edited June 11 by Pinkeh.4207

[Astewart.8415]

On 6/10/2024 at 2:27 PM, Kitty.4806 said:

You're INSANE. It's soooo easy. I did it in one day.

I first did the LWS4 skyscale over a few MONTHS.

Trolling??

So originally it was possible for the SkyScale to take Months, and that's how long it would take if you don't buy the latest expansion SoTO. 

In this thread people have said it takes days, weeks or months with the latest expansion. One post says that certain materials are timegated so it has to take you more than one day. The Skyscale changes accessibility and movement in the game drastically for the player. It is much better than all the other mounts. My point was that for me the original time commitment of Months was just far too long. The new time commitment is variable, but since the new expansion is adding yet another mount with masteries to grind, I felt that perhaps it would be possible to drop a Skyscale in the Gem store. 

For comparison, ESO has mounts, and you can purchase mounts in the store, and purchase Speed and Stamina to max in the store. Different games, different approaches...just pointing out there are different ways this could be done. 

Edited June 12 by Astewart.8415

[ShadowKatt.6740]

There is exactly ONE problem with the SotO skyscale acquisition and it's a growing problem in GW2: The egg.

You're given this achievement line to complete if you want your skyscale and the very first task is to find an egg. How do you do that? You visit a skyscale nest. They're scattered all over Skywatch Archipeligo and Amnytas. And then you get to the nest and.....nothing. See, this is the KEY difference between LWS4 Skyscales and SotO Skyscales: RNG.

In LWS4, to get your skyscale you start with six collections. One at a time you'll go out and visit each needed point, all detailed painstakingly in the wiki by players themselves, and you'll complete them. Every location has what you need, there is no gamble when you get there, not even a CHANCE of failure. You put in the work, you get your results. Six collections later you'll get 12 more small collections, after that 3 more collections including some crafting, and so on. But EVERY SINGLE STEP OF THE WAY you do the work, complete the work, and you're done.

A troubling sign for GW2 has been an ever increasing reliance on gambling, and I -will- call it what it is. They have taken away work - reward and introduced chance - reward. It started with fishing. You need a fish for this spec weapon. You need a fish for this legendary. You need a daily fish for ambergris for your legendary, and you play the minigame for a CHANCE of getting the fish you need. Like pulling the handle on a slot machine hoping that your numbers come up. This is a predatory way for them to inflate their numbers and make it look like they have more engagement when they're forcing that engagement if you want what's in the game. Now with SotO they introduced this "New and Streamlined Skyscale Acquisition Achievement" and sure it is; they cut down the collections from a few dozen to just three. But, and I cannot stress this enough, the first experience that new players are going to get and lets keep this clear this is targetted at new players specifically is to go out and roll the dice traveling from nest to nest to nest just trying to find the egg to even get started. I don't blame the OP for asking if there's a faster method because RNG sucks. Gambling sucks. I DESPISE gambling. I despised looking for the egg. I still despise fishing. And keep in mind that if it takes a new player days or weeks just to find the god damned egg why would they expect the rest of the achievement to take any less time?

Gambling is wrong. This new direction Anet is going with these achievements is wrong. And players have every right to question it. If you do the work you deserve to be paid, every time.

[Linken.6345]

59 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

There is exactly ONE problem with the SotO skyscale acquisition and it's a growing problem in GW2: The egg.

You're given this achievement line to complete if you want your skyscale and the very first task is to find an egg. How do you do that? You visit a skyscale nest. They're scattered all over Skywatch Archipeligo and Amnytas. And then you get to the nest and.....nothing. See, this is the KEY difference between LWS4 Skyscales and SotO Skyscales: RNG.

In LWS4, to get your skyscale you start with six collections. One at a time you'll go out and visit each needed point, all detailed painstakingly in the wiki by players themselves, and you'll complete them. Every location has what you need, there is no gamble when you get there, not even a CHANCE of failure. You put in the work, you get your results. Six collections later you'll get 12 more small collections, after that 3 more collections including some crafting, and so on. But EVERY SINGLE STEP OF THE WAY you do the work, complete the work, and you're done.

A troubling sign for GW2 has been an ever increasing reliance on gambling, and I -will- call it what it is. They have taken away work - reward and introduced chance - reward. It started with fishing. You need a fish for this spec weapon. You need a fish for this legendary. You need a daily fish for ambergris for your legendary, and you play the minigame for a CHANCE of getting the fish you need. Like pulling the handle on a slot machine hoping that your numbers come up. This is a predatory way for them to inflate their numbers and make it look like they have more engagement when they're forcing that engagement if you want what's in the game. Now with SotO they introduced this "New and Streamlined Skyscale Acquisition Achievement" and sure it is; they cut down the collections from a few dozen to just three. But, and I cannot stress this enough, the first experience that new players are going to get and lets keep this clear this is targetted at new players specifically is to go out and roll the dice traveling from nest to nest to nest just trying to find the egg to even get started. I don't blame the OP for asking if there's a faster method because RNG sucks. Gambling sucks. I DESPISE gambling. I despised looking for the egg. I still despise fishing. And keep in mind that if it takes a new player days or weeks just to find the god damned egg why would they expect the rest of the achievement to take any less time?

Gambling is wrong. This new direction Anet is going with these achievements is wrong. And players have every right to question it. If you do the work you deserve to be paid, every time.

I agree with you on this thread mate even tho we butt heads in the other.

Its just one thing among many to pad out the playtime of the mini expansion that is SotO.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

2 hours ago, Astewart.8415 said:

So originally it was possible for the SkyScale to take Months, and that's how long it would take if you don't buy the latest expansion SoTO. 

In this thread people have said it takes days, weeks or months with the latest expansion. One post says that certain materials are timegated so it has to take you more than one day. The Skyscale changes accessibility and movement in the game drastically for the player. It is much better than all the other mounts. My point was that for me the original time commitment of Months was just far too long. The new time commitment is variable, but since the new expansion is adding yet another mount with masteries to grind, I felt that perhaps it would be possible to drop a Skyscale in the Gem store. 

For comparison, ESO has mounts, and you can purchase mounts in the store, and purchase Speed and Stamina to max in the store. Different games, different approaches...just pointing out there are different ways this could be done. 

Of course it is possible for the skyscale to take months......if you hardly ever play. That's a choice, though. It does NOT take months, not even weeks. If it does, people chose to do it that way.

As for timegated materials, someone who thinks ahead will craft these items on a daily basis for a while, to stockpile them. Then, when you need them, you don't have to wait days to craft the required number. The concept of a timegate is hardly new and the consequences are well known. The only way to combat that is to craft them daily, even if you don't need them at the time. That's not rocket science. Crafting the handful of timegated materials there are (charged quartz crystals, bloodstone bricks, empyreal stars, etc.) hardly takes any time at all. 

Mounts to purchase in the gemstore? For years people have complained that they wanted rewards through gameplay, not the gemstore. To be fair, the majority of requests for stuff in the gemstore I've seen come by throughout the years comes down to people not wanting to do the work and/or spend the time. They just want to swipe a card and be done with it. That's not gameplay. Based on all the forum posts that have appeared throughout the years it seems that rewards through gameplay is what most people prefer.

1 hour ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Gambling is wrong. This new direction Anet is going with these achievements is wrong. And players have every right to question it. If you do the work you deserve to be paid, every time.

It's not gambling. You're guaranteed to get what you want. The only variable is time. Games aren't work, but even if we go with that analogy, the "work" here is finding a nest with a viable egg. And everyone who does the "work" will get it. It's not ANet 's fault that people's patience is in short supply these days. Because that's all it is. People can demand things all they want, but no one is obliged to meet that demand, especially when it's just a shortcut to something you would get anyway.

Edited June 12 by TheNecrosanct.4028

[genjonah.1253]

3 hours ago, Astewart.8415 said:

So originally it was possible for the SkyScale to take Months, and that's how long it would take if you don't buy the latest expansion SoTO. 

In this thread people have said it takes days, weeks or months with the latest expansion. One post says that certain materials are timegated so it has to take you more than one day. The Skyscale changes accessibility and movement in the game drastically for the player. It is much better than all the other mounts. My point was that for me the original time commitment of Months was just far too long. The new time commitment is variable, but since the new expansion is adding yet another mount with masteries to grind, I felt that perhaps it would be possible to drop a Skyscale in the Gem store. 

For comparison, ESO has mounts, and you can purchase mounts in the store, and purchase Speed and Stamina to max in the store. Different games, different approaches...just pointing out there are different ways this could be done. 

And this approach would be horrible for GW2. As mentioned, that ‘months’ amount was when it was FIRST introduced, and even then was an exaggeration and assuming only extremely casual play. In LWS4, I believe that the time gates have been so reduced that technically you could get it in under two days, but even then, it took me about a week. And that was BEFORE the ‘Return to…’ achievements, which give you ALL of the account bound currency required for doing very little effort. 
 

the skyscale is absolutely NOT required for any content outside of SOTO, where it is able to be rented and earned by a new method. It was SUPPOSED to be a legendary mount. Stop reducing it out of a sense of entitlement

[Linken.6345]

3 minutes ago, genjonah.1253 said:

And this approach would be horrible for GW2. As mentioned, that ‘months’ amount was when it was FIRST introduced, and even then was an exaggeration and assuming only extremely casual play. In LWS4, I believe that the time gates have been so reduced that technically you could get it in under two days, but even then, it took me about a week. And that was BEFORE the ‘Return to…’ achievements, which give you ALL of the account bound currency required for doing very little effort. 
 

the skyscale is absolutely NOT required for any content outside of SOTO, where it is able to be rented and earned by a new method. It was SUPPOSED to be a legendary mount. Stop reducing it out of a sense of entitlement

Yea used to be until next real life day so bettwen 1min-23h59min  it got cut down to in game day thats 2h wait bettwen collections.

[Astewart.8415]

11 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

It's not gambling. You're guaranteed to get what you want. The only variable is time. Games aren't work, but even if we go with that analogy, the "work" here is finding a nest with a viable egg. And everyone who does the "work" will get it. It's not ANet 's fault that people's patience is in short supply these days. Because that's all it is. People can demand things all they want, but no one is obliged to meet that demand, especially when it's just a shortcut to something you would get anyway.

My guy, it is gambling. It is the exact Dark Psychology elements that are applied to mobile gaming. 
Sunk Cost Fallacy, Fear of missing out
Addictive Mechanics - addictive loops such as daily rewards, timed events. 
Going to each Nest hoping to find the egg, and not finding the egg...or sometimes finding the egg, is manipulating chance and gambling psychology to hook the player. That's the only reason you don't find the egg every time. The long collection loops are also exploiting dark psychology traits and addictive mechanics. 

So that's why the Skyscale is designed the way it is, rather than a series of scripted, narrative questing that grants you the Skyscale at the end. OR a simple purchase in the store.  

 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

47 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

I agree with you on this thread mate even tho we butt heads in the other.

Its just one thing among many to pad out the playtime of the mini expansion that is SotO.

I won't tell anyone.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

40 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

It's not gambling. You're guaranteed to get what you want. The only variable is time. Games aren't work, but even if we go with that analogy, the "work" here is finding a nest with a viable egg. And everyone who does the "work" will get it. It's not ANet 's fault that people's patience is in short supply these days. Because that's all it is. People can demand things all they want, but no one is obliged to meet that demand, especially when it's just a shortcut to something you would get anyway.

By your logic a slot machine isn't gambling. You're guaranteed to get a win, whether you pull the  handle once or a million times. But probably, statistically, you will win EVENTUALLY.
Also by your logic, work is apparently only something you get paid for, but you were more vague on that, but I have bad news for you.

Any game of chance is a gamble. That's why it's called a gamble whenever you attempt something that has a chance of failure, especially if it has consequences. And "Work" actually has a definition, from Oxford, Noun #1. activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result. It doesn't matter what the activity is. Was effort made? Was energy expended? Then work was performed, whether you find it worthy or not. I didn't ask your opinion. You're wrong, I'm right.

People are putting in the effort and we can see the results, and uniquely in this case we have a direct comparison because we have two equations to get the same results. Both achievements reward a skyscale at the end. Both have collections. So what's the difference? Only one of them has a straight out FAILURE state where you are forced to put in effort and receive no result. This is not how Guild Wars 2 was designed. This is a change that has been made and it is a disgusting one. We see it for what it is, even with apologists like you trying to downplay it. There is a reason here for new players to be pissed, and if you cared about the future of the game you would be too.

[Bladestrom.6425]

3 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

There is exactly ONE problem with the SotO skyscale acquisition and it's a growing problem in GW2: The egg.

You're given this achievement line to complete if you want your skyscale and the very first task is to find an egg. How do you do that? You visit a skyscale nest. They're scattered all over Skywatch Archipeligo and Amnytas. And then you get to the nest and.....nothing. See, this is the KEY difference between LWS4 Skyscales and SotO Skyscales: RNG.

In LWS4, to get your skyscale you start with six collections. One at a time you'll go out and visit each needed point, all detailed painstakingly in the wiki by players themselves, and you'll complete them. Every location has what you need, there is no gamble when you get there, not even a CHANCE of failure. You put in the work, you get your results. Six collections later you'll get 12 more small collections, after that 3 more collections including some crafting, and so on. But EVERY SINGLE STEP OF THE WAY you do the work, complete the work, and you're done.

A troubling sign for GW2 has been an ever increasing reliance on gambling, and I -will- call it what it is. They have taken away work - reward and introduced chance - reward. It started with fishing. You need a fish for this spec weapon. You need a fish for this legendary. You need a daily fish for ambergris for your legendary, and you play the minigame for a CHANCE of getting the fish you need. Like pulling the handle on a slot machine hoping that your numbers come up. This is a predatory way for them to inflate their numbers and make it look like they have more engagement when they're forcing that engagement if you want what's in the game. Now with SotO they introduced this "New and Streamlined Skyscale Acquisition Achievement" and sure it is; they cut down the collections from a few dozen to just three. But, and I cannot stress this enough, the first experience that new players are going to get and lets keep this clear this is targetted at new players specifically is to go out and roll the dice traveling from nest to nest to nest just trying to find the egg to even get started. I don't blame the OP for asking if there's a faster method because RNG sucks. Gambling sucks. I DESPISE gambling. I despised looking for the egg. I still despise fishing. And keep in mind that if it takes a new player days or weeks just to find the god damned egg why would they expect the rest of the achievement to take any less time?

Gambling is wrong. This new direction Anet is going with these achievements is wrong. And players have every right to question it. If you do the work you deserve to be paid, every time.

You are confusing drop rates that annoys you personally and gambling. If you want to properly define gambling then you need to look at the definition of gambling, i.e '

.take risky action in the hope of a desired result'

 

So the question is, how risky is it wandering about and randomly looting nests until you get an egg - its not lol. Its no different to doing a dungeon a thousands times in diablo and hoping one day you get a perfect drop etc etc.  Furthermore with regards to Skyscale, i got mine via Season 4 so didn't need a random egg drop, so if you don't like fast-path-with-a random-drop, take the longer more conservative path via this route.?

Edited June 12 by Bladestrom.6425

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

25 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

By your logic a slot machine isn't gambling. You're guaranteed to get a win, whether you pull the  handle once or a million times. But probably, statistically, you will win EVENTUALLY.
Also by your logic, work is apparently only something you get paid for, but you were more vague on that, but I have bad news for you.

Any game of chance is a gamble. That's why it's called a gamble whenever you attempt something that has a chance of failure, especially if it has consequences. And "Work" actually has a definition, from Oxford, Noun #1. activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result. It doesn't matter what the activity is. Was effort made? Was energy expended? Then work was performed, whether you find it worthy or not. I didn't ask your opinion. You're wrong, I'm right.

People are putting in the effort and we can see the results, and uniquely in this case we have a direct comparison because we have two equations to get the same results. Both achievements reward a skyscale at the end. Both have collections. So what's the difference? Only one of them has a straight out FAILURE state where you are forced to put in effort and receive no result. This is not how Guild Wars 2 was designed. This is a change that has been made and it is a disgusting one. We see it for what it is, even with apologists like you trying to downplay it. There is a reason here for new players to be pissed, and if you cared about the future of the game you would be too.

No, you certainly didn't ask for my opinion. But you've posted yours on a public forum so you're getting mine whether you want to or not. That's how forums work.

Why do I not consider obtaining the egg gambling? 1. There is only one thing to get. No variations, no lesser rewards. Just an egg. In other words, when you get it you will always get the jackpot. 2. Once you have the egg you'll never have to go back and do it again. There's nothing to get, not even a second egg. If anything the search for the egg is more like a game of hide and seek. There are only so many places it can hide and sooner or later you will find it and then you're done. Would you consider playing hide and seek gambling? Because you have a chance of finding someone in any specific spot, but not a guarantee. That's exactly the same thing as the search for the egg. And in gambling people can go their entire life without winning the jackpot. Good luck going your entire life and never finding the egg. Not gonna happen.

Work. Yeah, technically it is work. Granted, I interpreted it as a complaint seen so often, namely that the game feels like a job. And if it does, people are doing it wrong. But yes, we put in work to find an egg. We put in work to go to 21 places to find 21 scales. Now you put in work to go to 21 places to find 1 egg in 1 of those places. Find 21 scales, the achievement is done. Next. I don't know how long it took you to find the egg, but I got it in less than 21 times. And I have yet to see feedback from people who've had to visit nests hundreds of times without finding one. You see finding an empty nest as a failure, while I see it as a necessary step in finding what you're looking for. You put in effort and you get the result. You just want the result from the first nest you visit. That's a lot less effort than finding 21 scales and it's not even achievement worthy. You might not know where the egg is, but you know where the nests are. All fixed spots, listed on wiki. The chance is not in finding the egg, it's in where it is.

Saying it's gambling, you get failures, it's all effort and no reward. It all just sounds a little dramatic and entitled to me. It's still a faster way to get the skyscale. Though it is unique that you're complaining about the quicker way to get the skyscale. Because whatever problem you might have with the SotO acquisition, it is still the quicker way to get a skyscale.

[Astewart.8415]

30 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

No, you certainly didn't ask for my opinion. But you've posted yours on a public forum so you're getting mine whether you want to or not. That's how forums work.

Why do I not consider obtaining the egg gambling? 1. There is only one thing to get. No variations, no lesser rewards. Just an egg. In other words, when you get it you will always get the jackpot. 2. Once you have the egg you'll never have to go back and do it again. There's nothing to get, not even a second egg. If anything the search for the egg is more like a game of hide and seek. There are only so many places it can hide and sooner or later you will find it and then you're done. Would you consider playing hide and seek gambling? Because you have a chance of finding someone in any specific spot, but not a guarantee. That's exactly the same thing as the search for the egg. And in gambling people can go their entire life without winning the jackpot. Good luck going your entire life and never finding the egg. Not gonna happen.

Saying it's gambling, you get failures, it's all effort and no reward. It all just sounds a little dramatic and entitled to me. It's still a faster way to get the skyscale. Though it is unique that you're complaining about the quicker way to get the skyscale. Because whatever problem you might have with the SotO acquisition, it is still the quicker way to get a skyscale.

You are playing with semantics. At it's core, it takes advantage of the same dark psychology traits that underpin gambling. There is no other reason to do it this way.
The psychology traits this takes advantage of are
Uncertainty and dopamine : the uncertainty of receiving a desired item creates anticipation, releasing dopamine and gives players a small high of anticipation. The same high they experience when gambling. 
Chasing losses - Not getting the egg in the first nest can also trigger dopamine, as the player then drives quickly with more anticipation to the next Nest, and the next nest .. this builds up a little feedback loop for this part of the game that keeps the player engaged and moves them forward to the next collection step. The fact that they know they will get the Egg eventually actually feeds into this, it doesn't remove the dark psychology from this activity as you stated in your response. 
The illusion of control - Players think that the next Nest will be THE nest, or believe they can select the right Nest and strategize around that. So you build engagement there as well. 

It's the same dark psychology traits as gambling, is the point. It doesn't need to be exactly like a slot machine for those traits to apply.  To go back to my initial post, I'd like to break out of that loop and just buy the mount in the Gem store, or go through a narrative driven quest to get it. 

Look, for mobile games there are experts that study this, and who run A/B tests to get just the right mix of reward vs time spent to exploit the maximum number of players. This is a field of study, don't act as though it isn't part of our Free to Play games and that it doesn't factor heavily into our game mechanics. 10 Potential Careers in Video Games for Psychologists | Indeed.com

[Bladestrom.6425]

5 minutes ago, Astewart.8415 said:

You are playing with semantics. At it's core, it takes advantage of the same dark psychology traits that underpin gambling. There is no other reason to do it this way.
The psychology traits this takes advantage of are
Uncertainty and dopamine : the uncertainty of receiving a desired item creates anticipation, releasing dopamine and gives players a small high of anticipation. The same high they experience when gambling. 
Chasing losses - Not getting the egg in the first nest can also trigger dopamine, as the player then drives quickly with more anticipation to the next Nest, and the next nest .. this builds up a little feedback loop for this part of the game that keeps the player engaged and moves them forward to the next collection step. The fact that they know they will get the Egg eventually actually feeds into this, it doesn't remove the dark psychology from this activity as you stated in your response. 
The illusion of control - Players think that the next Nest will be THE nest, or believe they can select the right Nest and strategize around that. So you build engagement there as well. 

It's the same dark psychology traits as gambling, is the point. It doesn't need to be exactly like a slot machine for those traits to apply.  To go back to my initial post, I'd like to break out of that loop and just buy the mount in the Gem store, or go through a narrative driven quest to get it. 

Look, for mobile games there are experts that study this, and who run A/B tests to get just the right mix of reward vs time spent to exploit the maximum number of players. This is a field of study, don't act as though it isn't part of our Free to Play games and that it doesn't factor heavily into our game mechanics. 10 Potential Careers in Video Games for Psychologists | Indeed.com

And again people are ignoring what is meant by gambling. 

.take risky action in the hope of a desired result'

Wandering about looting nests is not risky so its not gambling.

Put it this way, if i do another run on a diablo map with a hope that I will get some drops including one particular low drop rate item, am I gambling or am i just playing a game?  Im playing a game. 

Edited June 12 by Bladestrom.6425

[Astewart.8415]

9 minutes ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

And again people are ignoring what is meant by gambling. 

.take risky action in the hope of a desired result'

Wandering about looting nests is not risky so its not gambling.

Put it this way, if i do another run on a diablo map with a hope that I will get some drops including one particular low drop rate item, am I gambling or am i just playing a game?  Im playing a game. 

You need to read the EU report on Gambling and Loot Boxes in games, particularly EA and Mobile games. It DOES use gambling mechanics, and that is why the EU raised questions and some countries made rulings/strongly suggested that companies must publish their drop rates etc. Every major game publisher agrees to disclose loot box odds by the end of 2020 (pcgamesn.com)

Seeing your response reminds me of what people were saying when these mechanics were first introduced. That if we allowed this there would be a generation that never played anything different and would think this is just the way games are. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

12 minutes ago, Astewart.8415 said:

You need to read the EU report on Gambling and Loot Boxes in games, particularly EA and Mobile games. It DOES use gambling mechanics, and that is why the EU raised questions and some countries made rulings/strongly suggested that companies must publish their drop rates etc. Every major game publisher agrees to disclose loot box odds by the end of 2020 (pcgamesn.com)

Seeing your response reminds me of what people were saying when these mechanics were first introduced. That if we allowed this there would be a generation that never played anything different and would think this is just the way games are. 

Uhu because there is risk involved with loot boxes.  A poor understanding of risk + conflating loot boxes with looting eggs with a low drop rates does not equate to gambling.

Edited June 12 by Bladestrom.6425

[azorean.1850]

is this a joke post? are getting punked?

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, Astewart.8415 said:

So originally it was possible for the SkyScale to take Months, and that's how long it would take if you don't buy the latest expansion SoTO. 

It's such nonsense to try building any argument here based on that proclaimed "but it can take months" -duh, of course it could take months, it can even take a literal infinite amount of time, people just need to not play the game or play it without going for skyscale. "It can take months!" is a not a reasonable descriptor of how much it actually took or takes.

6 hours ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Of course it is possible for the skyscale to take months......if you hardly ever play. That's a choice, though. It does NOT take months, not even weeks. If it does, people chose to do it that way.

I guess I was late with that 😄 

 

6 hours ago, Astewart.8415 said:

(...) rather than a series of scripted, narrative questing that grants you the Skyscale at the end.

But that's exactly how it currently is and was before soto as well. So in the end that "scripted narrative questing" isn't as important as you're saying here?

 

5 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

By your logic a slot machine isn't gambling. You're guaranteed to get a win, whether you pull the  handle once or a million times. But probably, statistically, you will win EVENTUALLY.
Also by your logic, work is apparently only something you get paid for, but you were more vague on that, but I have bad news for you.

Oh my... this is not how any of it works. 🤦‍♂️ If you were guaranteed to win, gambling wouldn't be a thing because it wouldn't be profitable. And no, statistically you will not win eventually. Meanwhile for skyscale whether you get it at your 3rd or 12th nest, you still get the egg, there's no hypothetical infinite rolls and no losing the game.

5 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Any game of chance is a gamble. That's why it's called a gamble whenever you attempt something that has a chance of failure, especially if it has consequences.

Wrong, not every activity, game or event involving rng is equal to gambling.

 

3 hours ago, Astewart.8415 said:

You need to read the EU report on Gambling and Loot Boxes in games, particularly EA and Mobile games. It DOES use gambling mechanics, and that is why the EU raised questions and some countries made rulings/strongly suggested that companies must publish their drop rates etc. Every major game publisher agrees to disclose loot box odds by the end of 2020 (pcgamesn.com)

Seeing your response reminds me of what people were saying when these mechanics were first introduced. That if we allowed this there would be a generation that never played anything different and would think this is just the way games are. 

Are you being charged each time you click "F" on a nest? Gambling isn't what you think it is. And, btw, the rule about loot boxes also isn't what you think it is. You're the one who probably should actually read about it. If you read as much as just the first paragraph of what you linked, you'd see "agreed to run down real money drop rates". You rather clearly don't even understand what you're linking here, let alone what you're talking about. Here's the source for what you just linked:
https://www.theesa.com/video-game-industry-commitments-to-further-inform-consumer-purchases/
All of it is in regards to "paid/purchased loot boxes". It has nothing to do with the claims you're trying to make here.

Edited June 12 by Sobx.1758

[YourOnlyOne.4937]

On 6/5/2024 at 4:28 AM, Astewart.8415 said:

This may be unpopular, but what I really want in the expansion is a way to get the Skyscale mount without  a week of grinding. I'd even pay gems or something, but to be honest what has kept me from coming back to the game is looking at the grind for these now almost mandatory mounts on Youtube. 

I started playing in Beta. After Scarlet's invasion of Lion's Arch, I went on hiatus. I only returned late 2020, and I only worked on my Griffon, then Skyscale in 2021. Unknowingly, I already have almost all of the stuff I need, so I only worked on the timed requirements (like those daily requirements). It only took as long as the timed daily requirements. No griding.

Then of course we know that they overhauled the Skyscale system and made it shorter and easier.

In other words, just play. Don't mind it. I went on hiatus for almost a decade and still had no issues in the end. I just played as usual, and by the time I decided to get Griffon and Skyscale, I already have most of what I'll  need.

Just do the same.

 

EDIT: To clarify, when I did my Skyscale, it was already the second version of the Skyscale mission. The original was far longer and harder. After I got my Skyscale, they did another overhaul, which made it easier, then another when SotO came out, which is far more easier. There's nothing else to do to make it easier and faster without it turning into a free give away. ^_~

Edited June 12 by YourOnlyOne.4937

[ShadowKatt.6740]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Oh my... this is not how any of it works. 🤦‍♂️ If you were guaranteed to win, gambling wouldn't be a thing because it wouldn't be profitable. And no, statistically you will not win eventually. Meanwhile for skyscale whether you get it at your 3rd or 12th nest, you still get the egg, there's no hypothetical infinite rolls and no losing the game.

Wrong, not every activity, game or event involving rng is equal to gambling.

Your 3rd or your 12th nest? What about your 15th? What about your 24th? 27th? 36th? Where do you want to draw that arbitrary line that somehow magically dissociates the act of rolling the digital dice as to whether you do or don't get your result when you press the [F] key and how that's different than pressing [Roll] on a digital slot machine? As far as I can tell, the ONLY differnce is that I don't have to put a nickel in the game every time I want to use a skyscale nest.

Now, I didn't have to go through that many nests to get my egg, maybe a dozen or so. But know what I did go through that many for? FISH. Because every spec weapon in EoD requires a specific fish. And all legendaries in EoD require Ambergris, which is farmed with fish. And wait, I hear you already "That's fishing, it's totally different", No it's not! You travel to a nest and roll the dice for egg or no egg. With fishing you play a minigame and roll the dice to either get right fish or wrong fish because the collection doesn't care if you caught 12 MILLION salmon if you need a boreal walleye. I have no use for your apologia for bad systems in game and I honestly find your adamant defense of random chance in games offensive. It's because of people like you that Blizzard thought they could actually get away with Diablo Immortal, and I won't suffer even a shade of that here without pushing back against it and anyone who dares to stand in my way.

[Sobx.1758]

57 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Your 3rd or your 12th nest? What about your 15th? What about your 24th? 27th? 36th? Where do you want to draw that arbitrary line that somehow magically dissociates the act of rolling the digital dice as to whether you do or don't get your result when you press the [F] key and how that's different than pressing [Roll] on a digital slot machine? As far as I can tell, the ONLY differnce is that I don't have to put a nickel in the game every time I want to use a skyscale nest.

You can "draw your arbitrary line" wherever you want, it changes nothing about what was said. This has nothing to do with your mentioned slot machine gambling. Although I wonder if anet could share the stat about what's the max number of visited nest was required for any player to get the egg.

How's that different? You pay in order to keep rolling in one and you don't pay in order to "roll" for the other. The probability of finding the egg probably also increases with each nest interaction which can't be said about your comparison. The number of nests you'll need is nowhere remotely near the block of the neighborhood of the rolls needed to "win" in a slot machine (which as a result you'd still be effectively losing at). How about you try understanding what you're trying to discuss before you start attempting to equate mere existence of any limited rng (because that's what it is here) to gambling (which this is clearly not)?

57 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Now, I didn't have to go through that many nests to get my egg, maybe a dozen or so.

Of course you didn't, because you're making up -for all we know unrealistic- hypotheticals in order to claim this is some huge rng time sink. It is not, it is nothing more than limited involvement in map exploration.

57 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

But know what I did go through that many for? FISH. Because every spec weapon in EoD requires a specific fish. And all legendaries in EoD require Ambergris, which is farmed with fish. And wait, I hear you already "That's fishing, it's totally different", No it's not!

Yes, it is indeed totally different and attempting to draw a direct comparison between fish drop rates with skyscale nest drop chance is nonsense. Once again, you seem to look at two things, notice that "this one invoves rng" and "that one involves rng" and conclude that those 2 things operate the same way -but they are not, even if they both involve rng.

57 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

It's because of people like you that Blizzard thought they could actually get away with Diablo Immortal

That's it folks, Blizzard thought they can get away with diablo immortal because I don't have an issue visiting 15 nests in gw2. What a take! News flash though: if anything, it's the "playing the game is such a chore, put it in a shop so I can swipe a card for it instantly!" crowd to blame for the gaming abominations we're getting nowadays, very much including the one you're bringing up here.
Circling back to the skyscale nests: still not gambling and still not comparable though.

Edited June 12 by Sobx.1758