Open World Weaver - Give up?

[Flame Of The Titan.3649]

I'm pretty sad to see that Weaver is not being given really any buffs to it's PVE side.

 

I love this Espec in general, I find it an absolute blast to play and Sword/Dagger is a blast to play - but the lack of Quickness is killing me, meaning I just end up dying as I can't get my skills out fast enough.

 

When I compare this to my Herald rev who gets 25 stacks of might and quickness for just...existing - I feel pretty underwhelmed in comparison. I'm hoping that Spear is the saving grace and finally Elementalist is great again, I truly love this class more than any other but it just feels so lack luster for playing it well.

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Flame Of The Titan.3649 said:

I'm pretty sad to see that Weaver is not being given really any buffs to it's PVE side.

 

I love this Espec in general, I find it an absolute blast to play and Sword/Dagger is a blast to play - but the lack of Quickness is killing me, meaning I just end up dying as I can't get my skills out fast enough.

 

When I compare this to my Herald rev who gets 25 stacks of might and quickness for just...existing - I feel pretty underwhelmed in comparison. I'm hoping that Spear is the saving grace and finally Elementalist is great again, I truly love this class more than any other but it just feels so lack luster for playing it well.

 

 

100% agree this spec absolutely begs for quickness and more consistent might and vulnerability wouldn't hurt either.  

As for sustain, one major issue is that so much of its damage output relies on utilities or locks it into attunements with no sustain.  Both of these issues result in weaver having to pay far more for sustain than other classes.

I don't have any solutions for you other than to suggest a condition build.  This allows you to use earth traits and attunement as well as running focus offhand and traulblazer stats for relatively low cost sustain.  A build like this can push 20-25k DPS while having very strong sustain.

[Codename T.2847]

14 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

100% agree this spec absolutely begs for quickness and more consistent might and vulnerability wouldn't hurt either.  

As for sustain, one major issue is that so much of its damage output relies on utilities or locks it into attunements with no sustain.  Both of these issues result in weaver having to pay far more for sustain than other classes.

I don't have any solutions for you other than to suggest a condition build.  This allows you to use earth traits and attunement as well as running focus offhand and traulblazer stats for relatively low cost sustain.  A build like this can push 20-25k DPS while having very strong sustain.

This ^^ in open world I've been dabbling into -Trailblazer- fire/earth/Tempest with pistol/focus recently, and it does cracked amounts of damage for how much sustain it has. Probably the only thing less killable atm is power untamed with carnivore or cele Vindi xD

Trailblazer and pistol both work on Weaver too, although it takes a while to get used to the weird-kitten dual attunement skills (with the slight change of weaver being fire/arcane instead of fire/earth, inspired by old weaver build from WvW) 

Edited June 17 by Codename T.2847

[soulknight.9620]

@OP yeap give up. Weaver is designed to have quick uptime (and alac too) to get smooth gameplay. And since you lack the options to actually generate quick in any way - just go cata/tempest/any other good class and start having fun. 

[Suyheuti.1732]

6 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

@OP yeap give up. Weaver is designed to have quick uptime (and alac too) to get smooth gameplay. And since you lack the options to actually generate quick in any way - just go cata/tempest/any other good class and start having fun. 

There are specs which can generate self quickness in the game. Reaper and holosmith for instance. Elementalist has the lowest armor and lowest HP pool at the same time. Some sustain at weaver will be nice. 

[draxynnic.3719]

The people saying that celestial/trailblazer builds with fire/earth traits work well are on the mark. Open world ele really needs a little more durability, but because basically every ele weapon is hybrid except pistol (don't use pistol) you don't lose a lot of DPS for going celestial while getting a big boost on durability, healing, and boon duration. My personal experience is that it's reasonably functional on sword and sceptre in open world.

Catalyst with the same traits and gear might be a bit better, but the difference is small enough that if you just find weaver to be more fun, that outweighs performance differences in most open world and story situations.

[zeyeti.8347]

Problem with the habit of having quickness is that any class in open world without decent access to it feel sluggish.

Maybe anet should add more self quickness to specs , clearly because of that i only play herald and reaper in open world because their quickness access is easy and has a lot of uptime with nor bd nor effort. And they are a lot of useless traitline in many specs who are neither used in pve/wvw/pvp. Slap some self quickness on it and i am pretty sure any open world enjoyer will take that trait.

But actually , i would say : yes give up on weaver into pve , for me it ressemble some kind of masochism and if you really want ele in open world cata seems good with celestial , not gonna hit as hard as it should , but the boon access is decent while being very nerve wracking to upkeep^, especially at the start of a combat.

[soulknight.9620]

6 hours ago, Suyheuti.1732 said:

There are specs which can generate self quickness in the game. Reaper and holosmith for instance. Elementalist has the lowest armor and lowest HP pool at the same time. Some sustain at weaver will be nice. 

Whats your point here?

Ive said weaver cannot get quick. Weaver needs quick to play comfortably since all of its skills are balanced to have quick and alac for smooth gameplay. So better off swap espec to cata (has quick), temp (doesnt need quick) or other class that has it much easier. 

[zeyeti.8347]

18 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Whats your point here?

Ive said weaver cannot get quick. Weaver needs quick to play comfortably since all of its skills are balanced to have quick and alac for smooth gameplay. So better off swap espec to cata (has quick), temp (doesnt need quick) or other class that has it much easier. 

How can you play with 4 secs cast overload ☠️ , it's killing me , that's horrendously long cast time , even with quickness i find it long.

Everyone i know who plays ele in this game start ranting like a pig playing tempest when the quickness uptime is low , you are the first i met who don't complain about that !

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Problem with the habit of having quickness is that any class in open world without decent access to it feel sluggish.

You feel slower, but if you hit harder per hit it compensates for it. Quickness without alacrity is usually just a matter of squeezing in more autoattacks between cooldown skills. Which obviously isn't nothing, but on a profession like elementalist where most of the damage is usually in cooldown skills, it's not so much that it can't be compensated for in other ways.

[Chyro.1462]

If you want another option than giving up the spec for open world, maybe having the jade bot buffs active all the time in open world helps out a bit? There's also some sigils (Agility, Rage and Celerity) that can give bits of quickness, and the relic of the Cavalier (though have to engage from mount into combat to gain the quick - could be a neat combo to use raptor attack to pull enemies together then have quickness to finish them off). You won't have 100% uptime on quickness, but you'll have some. And maybe it could be fun to experiment with that and see what you can make of it.

I don't think that having quickness or not makes or breaks a class, though it does always feel better to play with quickness than without - unless you're used to not having quickness from the start. Can't miss what you haven't experienced yet. As others suggested, trailblazer or cele gear can make you more robust for open world - meta dps builds that are purely focused on damage will often die more easily in open world when alone since they're built with the intention of being supported by the group.

[vardeleanu.8972]

yes

[CETheLucid.3964]

20 hours ago, Flame Of The Titan.3649 said:

Open World Weaver - Give up?

Or you can acquire proficiency.
 

Spoiler

Since it's open world, you could just charge up on jade buffs in the wizard's tower which includes quickness. You don't need quickness though. Nice to have. Not necessary. Especially for something like Sword which is already a fairly quick weapon ele wise with a built in evade skill. Lack of quickness isn't why you're tasting the floor.

In the context of group events, someone is almost certainly going to be slathering you with it anyway so you should be fine regardless. As an elementalist you are not lacking in other boons. If you're still struggling try swapping out Dagger off-hand for Focus, which gives you more defensive and cleansing options. Could also try equipping a more defensive relic. Barrier, more condi cleanse, extra healing on blast/leap, etc etc.

There's a lot of things you could do including giving up, playing an elementalist espec that does provide quickness, or playing a different class altogether.

[AliamRationem.5172]

16 minutes ago, CETheLucid.3964 said:

Or you can acquire proficiency.
 

  Hide contents

Since it's open world, you could just charge up on jade buffs in the wizard's tower which includes quickness. You don't need quickness though. Nice to have. Not necessary. Especially for something like Sword which is already a fairly quick weapon ele wise with a built in evade skill. Lack of quickness isn't why you're tasting the floor.

In the context of group events, someone is almost certainly going to be slathering you with it anyway so you should be fine regardless. As an elementalist you are not lacking in other boons. If you're still struggling try swapping out Dagger off-hand for Focus, which gives you more defensive and cleansing options. Could also try equipping a more defensive relic. Barrier, more condi cleanse, extra healing on blast/leap, etc etc.

There's a lot of things you could do including giving up, playing an elementalist espec that does provide quickness, or playing a different class altogether.

True.  There's an element of skill at play here.  Weaver doesn't have to struggle in open world and suggestions have been made toward that end.  But there's still the objective comparison of weaver to other classes and the inevitable question that comes to mind for many of us is: Is this justified?  There was a time when I think it probably was, but a lot a has changed since then.  The problem is that weaver hasn't.

I'll try to add some context with video illustration.  Compare these two clips:

Viper weaver champion solo: 34 seconds, 24.6k DPS 

Berserker untamed champion solo: 25 seconds, 34.8k DPS

Untamed is one of the best solo play builds currently.  I realize that weaver doesn't necessarily have to be the best.  But the difference here is dramatic.  41% higher damage is just the start to this comparison.  Everything about weaver's design comes from a time when elite specs were designed to have tradeoffs.  You want CC, defensive boons, and healing?  That's in a low-damage attunement.  Want a huge damage boost in weave self?  You have to pay for that with 60 seconds of artificially reduced damage intended to balance that advantage.

What about untamed?  I'm using maces in this clip.  Maces that provide stability, regen, vigor, protection, barrier, healing, and a ton of CC.  Did that cost me anything?  Judging by my damage output?  Not really.  What about my elite skill?  Forest's Fortification provides 10x stability, resolution, resistance, super speed/vigor and a 50% damage reduction for 10 seconds.  Cost:  Nothing.  My damage is balanced around the fact that Untamed has no strong offensive elite skills, so it just deals massive damage without one and gets that slot as a freebie.  I also get to take damage utilities that double as CC.  Again, no cost for something weaver has to pay for.  What about the boons weaver does have?  I can have might, but as usual there's a cost.  I have to burn off 10 stacks every time I rotate out of fire.  Meanwhile the Untamed generates 25x might as well as full uptime 25x vulnerability effortlessly.

All of this on a spec with 20k health, a pet tank, a 25% damage reduction toggle on no cooldown that also generates traited stability at-will via CC skills.  It also has reflects/blocks, cleanses, boonrip, and a damage invuln.

I guess my question here is why does weaver have to be so limited?  It has less of everything and it has to pay a lot more for what it does have.  Why?

[zeyeti.8347]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

You feel slower, but if you hit harder per hit it compensates for it. Quickness without alacrity is usually just a matter of squeezing in more autoattacks between cooldown skills. Which obviously isn't nothing, but on a profession like elementalist where most of the damage is usually in cooldown skills, it's not so much that it can't be compensated for in other ways.

it's a matter of feeling , i played condi reaper in open world , and yuuuk can go trough it how slow the spin to win was , and for what i saw , there is more and mroe people tending to reaper in open world , but i barely see an ele... 

And for what it is to hit harder , i doesn't feel like hitting harder with a weaver , this switch quickly to double attunement and single would really benefit from quickness to me , after all hit 33% faster = switch faster to attunements , also means better uptime on your traitline passiv like element of rage.

4 hours ago, Chyro.1462 said:

If you want another option than giving up the spec for open world, maybe having the jade bot buffs active all the time in open world helps out a bit? There's also some sigils (Agility, Rage and Celerity) that can give bits of quickness, and the relic of the Cavalier (though have to engage from mount into combat to gain the quick - could be a neat combo to use raptor attack to pull enemies together then have quickness to finish them off). You won't have 100% uptime on quickness, but you'll have some. And maybe it could be fun to experiment with that and see what you can make of it.

I don't think that having quickness or not makes or breaks a class, though it does always feel better to play with quickness than without - unless you're used to not having quickness from the start. Can't miss what you haven't experienced yet. As others suggested, trailblazer or cele gear can make you more robust for open world - meta dps builds that are purely focused on damage will often die more easily in open world when alone since they're built with the intention of being supported by the group.

this sadly has been nerfed , jade bots protocols only give you boons every 90 secs now i think or 60 maybe ... so no more 2h30 jade protocol stacking sadly , this only made me play classes i usually don't touch in open world

 

Edited June 18 by zeyeti.8347

[astralrisotto.3206]

5 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

True.  There's an element of skill at play here.  Weaver doesn't have to struggle in open world and suggestions have been made toward that end.  But there's still the objective comparison of weaver to other classes and the inevitable question that comes to mind for many of us is: Is this justified?  There was a time when I think it probably was, but a lot a has changed since then.  The problem is that weaver hasn't.

I'll try to add some context with video illustration.  Compare these two clips:

Viper weaver champion solo: 34 seconds, 24.6k DPS 

Berserker untamed champion solo: 25 seconds, 34.8k DPS

Untamed is one of the best solo play builds currently.  I realize that weaver doesn't necessarily have to be the best.  But the difference here is dramatic.  41% higher damage is just the start to this comparison.  Everything about weaver's design comes from a time when elite specs were designed to have tradeoffs.  You want CC, defensive boons, and healing?  That's in a low-damage attunement.  Want a huge damage boost in weave self?  You have to pay for that with 60 seconds of artificially reduced damage intended to balance that advantage.

What about untamed?  I'm using maces in this clip.  Maces that provide stability, regen, vigor, protection, barrier, healing, and a ton of CC.  Did that cost me anything?  Judging by my damage output?  Not really.  What about my elite skill?  Forest's Fortification provides 10x stability, resolution, resistance, super speed/vigor and a 50% damage reduction for 10 seconds.  Cost:  Nothing.  My damage is balanced around the fact that Untamed has no strong offensive elite skills, so it just deals massive damage without one and gets that slot as a freebie.  I also get to take damage utilities that double as CC.  Again, no cost for something weaver has to pay for.  What about the boons weaver does have?  I can have might, but as usual there's a cost.  I have to burn off 10 stacks every time I rotate out of fire.  Meanwhile the Untamed generates 25x might as well as full uptime 25x vulnerability effortlessly.

All of this on a spec with 20k health, a pet tank, a 25% damage reduction toggle on no cooldown that also generates traited stability at-will via CC skills.  It also has reflects/blocks, cleanses, boonrip, and a damage invuln.

I guess my question here is why does weaver have to be so limited?  It has less of everything and it has to pay a lot more for what it does have.  Why?

You are absolutely right with your last question. Weaver feels constrained. I'm fine with having a complex mechanic, but being limited isn't good. In a strange way, I can't help but think of when one dev said "hunter is my favorite" in a balance patch stream. I'm not saying hunter is overpowered or anything like that, but since that day, I've noticed Hunter getting exciting updates while Ele seems to be left out. Maybe one day, Ele will get attention from a dev who appreciates it and incorporates people's feedback effectively.

[Mauti.3520]

It's kinda weird tanky but hard hitting specs like Untamed, Reaper or Scrapper have ez permanent quickness no worries, but then there is like Weaver and getting access to permanent Fury, let alone quickness, is complete pita on this class.

Several "pure DPS" Elite Specs don't feel great in OW nowadays, since Boon Specs are so ludicrously tuned, but I feel it's incredibly noticeable on Weaver.

[rwknoll.7824]

5 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

True.  There's an element of skill at play here.  Weaver doesn't have to struggle in open world and suggestions have been made toward that end.  But there's still the objective comparison of weaver to other classes and the inevitable question that comes to mind for many of us is: Is this justified?  There was a time when I think it probably was, but a lot a has changed since then.  The problem is that weaver hasn't.

I'll try to add some context with video illustration.  Compare these two clips:

Viper weaver champion solo: 34 seconds, 24.6k DPS 

Berserker untamed champion solo: 25 seconds, 34.8k DPS

Untamed is one of the best solo play builds currently.  I realize that weaver doesn't necessarily have to be the best.  But the difference here is dramatic.  41% higher damage is just the start to this comparison.  Everything about weaver's design comes from a time when elite specs were designed to have tradeoffs.  You want CC, defensive boons, and healing?  That's in a low-damage attunement.  Want a huge damage boost in weave self?  You have to pay for that with 60 seconds of artificially reduced damage intended to balance that advantage.

What about untamed?  I'm using maces in this clip.  Maces that provide stability, regen, vigor, protection, barrier, healing, and a ton of CC.  Did that cost me anything?  Judging by my damage output?  Not really.  What about my elite skill?  Forest's Fortification provides 10x stability, resolution, resistance, super speed/vigor and a 50% damage reduction for 10 seconds.  Cost:  Nothing.  My damage is balanced around the fact that Untamed has no strong offensive elite skills, so it just deals massive damage without one and gets that slot as a freebie.  I also get to take damage utilities that double as CC.  Again, no cost for something weaver has to pay for.  What about the boons weaver does have?  I can have might, but as usual there's a cost.  I have to burn off 10 stacks every time I rotate out of fire.  Meanwhile the Untamed generates 25x might as well as full uptime 25x vulnerability effortlessly.

All of this on a spec with 20k health, a pet tank, a 25% damage reduction toggle on no cooldown that also generates traited stability at-will via CC skills.  It also has reflects/blocks, cleanses, boonrip, and a damage invuln.

I guess my question here is why does weaver have to be so limited?  It has less of everything and it has to pay a lot more for what it does have.  Why?

Wtf. Dear Lord. You’re making me question why I’m stubbornly clinging to this profession out of some feeling of loyalty. Either other classes like this need to be pared back a bit so they have actual trade-offs, or we need some buffs as well to bring us in line. Right now I don’t really feel like elementalist shines at anything.

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, rwknoll.7824 said:

Wtf. Dear Lord. You’re making me question why I’m stubbornly clinging to this profession out of some feeling of loyalty. Either other classes like this need to be pared back a bit so they have actual trade-offs, or we need some buffs as well to bring us in line. Right now I don’t really feel like elementalist shines at anything.

I think the days of tradeoffs went out the window when they decided to homogenize the boon system and carve out support roles for every class.  It's the boons that are primarily responsible for the disparities between haves and have-nots.  For all of its limitations, if they'd get rid of the might burn on Pyromancer's Puissance and give Weaver the equivalent of Untamed's Enhancing Impact (e.g. quickness on dual skill use), it'd feel pretty good.  Not Untamed good, but really only reaper is sharing that space currently.  Somebody has to be the best, right?

[Chyro.1462]

7 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

it's a matter of feeling , i played condi reaper in open world , and yuuuk can go trough it how slow the spin to win was , and for what i saw , there is more and mroe people tending to reaper in open world , but i barely see an ele... 

And for what it is to hit harder , i doesn't feel like hitting harder with a weaver , this switch quickly to double attunement and single would really benefit from quickness to me , after all hit 33% faster = switch faster to attunements , also means better uptime on your traitline passiv like element of rage.

this sadly has been nerfed , jade bots protocols only give you boons every 90 secs now i think or 60 maybe ... so no more 2h30 jade protocol stacking sadly , this only made me play classes i usually don't touch in open world

 

It was set to 90 sec when they first 'fixed' it but has been lowerd to 30 seconds in a recent patch. So 10 seconds quickness (+ all other buffs, with the might stacks and swiftness being 30sec) every 30 sec. And oftentimes you spend some of the cooldown time going to the next mob or doing something else in open world anyways. Combined with some sigils or the moung-engage relic, you could have quickness up quite regularly.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

2 hours ago, Chyro.1462 said:

It was set to 90 sec when they first 'fixed' it but has been lowerd to 30 seconds in a recent patch. So 10 seconds quickness (+ all other buffs, with the might stacks and swiftness being 30sec) every 30 sec. And oftentimes you spend some of the cooldown time going to the next mob or doing something else in open world anyways. Combined with some sigils or the moung-engage relic, you could have quickness up quite regularly.

This right here^^

This whole thread has been a headscratcher for me.  Maybe it is because I spend most of my weaver time in WvW, but I have never once felt what the OP is saying.  When I play weaver in PVE it is like everything is moving way too fast.  Granted, I don't go around soloing champions or fractals/dungeons on my ele, but for general overworld use I don't have any complaints.  

[AliamRationem.5172]

49 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

This right here^^

This whole thread has been a headscratcher for me.  Maybe it is because I spend most of my weaver time in WvW, but I have never once felt what the OP is saying.  When I play weaver in PVE it is like everything is moving way too fast.  Granted, I don't go around soloing champions or fractals/dungeons on my ele, but for general overworld use I don't have any complaints.  

Talk about headscratchers.  I don't know how you could play any spec at all without quickness and not think "This would be a lot better if it had quickness!"

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Talk about headscratchers.  I don't know how you could play any spec at all without quickness and not think "This would be a lot better if it had quickness!"

Let me give an example.  There was a fractal requirement for me this weekly, and normally I do that on Scrapper for obvious reasons.  For kicks and giggles, I decided to attempt this on a full berserker weaver today.  I selected Uncategorized, one of the few that doesn't have some weird switch gimmick that requires multiple players, and I proceeded to complete the entire thing without going down once.

The build I used was this:  http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAwilZweYKMKmJOqKrvOA-DSIYR0wfG1KBqQBIzzCAUB-e  though a small note that for the second and final boss, I used Glyph of Elementals instead of Weave Self.  Now, this build of mine isn't super defensive.  The only real changes you'll notice from a standard DPS build is taking Bolstered Elements over Swift Revenge, and Stone Resonance over Primordial Stance.  I could've made more changes to the build, but I never needed to.  

The first boss I largely used hit and run tactics, as I usually do, since standing in place for basically any build here will spell certain death when all four of them start wailing on you.  I'd go more aggressive and take advantage of Fresh Air to unload as many dual skills as possible if I either had my barrier sources up, or if I had my CC skills up.  The standard Fresh Air CC rotation can break their bars pretty easy at low level, letting me wail on them.  Once two of the champions were down I just wailed on the Shaman until it was dead.  The scariest part was when my game froze for a bit, and I found myself nearly dead after 10 seconds of everybody standing in place.  

The second boss I pre-emptively used Glyph of Elements to summon a water elemental, since this room has high unavoidable damage ticking constantly.  Otherwise, the fight is a pretty basic tank and spank:  dodge when it shoots the laser, cycle to water/earth and blast the water field when running low on health, stagger barrier sources, going full offense otherwise.

The final boss was definitely the scariest part.  Individually the mechs were no threat, since it was really easy to stun them and DPS them down.  The water elemental was there mostly for the Raving Asura.  Things got dicey when all the golems activated, because I kept getting chain-stunned over and over again.  There was a brief period where I had to just flat out run away for awhile, swinging while water attuned to gain enough health while my defensive skills left cooldown.  Once they did after six seconds, I came back and finished off the last two golems using the same strats.  Was this harder then when I use Scrapper?  A bit.  I could've made it easier by equipping a focus instead of a dagger.  There were some tradeoffs, like how I found it much easier to CC the enemies on Weaver than on Scrapper, but the lack of projectile management in my build was a killer.  

See, throughout that entire fractal, Quickness wouldn't have been a crucial part of the battle.  It would've made the skills come out faster, but the overall impact would have been that I used a few more auto attacks during the bar breaks and burst phases.  I still have the same number of high damage skills, which all have the same cooldowns, quickness or not.  If anything, what I missed more throughout this fight was Alacrity.  Having Alacrity would've provided a greater safety net, let me get to skills faster (thus significantly increasing damage and evades), and shortened the disengagement moments for when I needed either barrier or CC skills.

Thus, the conundrum that is this thread.  I have a fuzzy memory, but my memory is telling me that for many years the large complaint about Weaver was it's alacrity dependency for rotations.  That alacrity dependency is felt in long fights and high pressure situations, where the greatest thing holding you back is attunement swapping to get to all of your skills.  Not the skill executions themselves.  Then, when this thread shows up, suddenly everyone forgets the alacrity dependency and starts riding the quickness train.  Why, exactly, did everyone drop the plot and jump aboard this new thing?  Is it just because you like to complain about ele?  There's no way that weaver would get both personal quickness and personal alacrity if it were buffed, and most of the players here should know that.  You're all abandoning the more important possible buff in lieu of more auto attacking.  

[Flame Of The Titan.3649]

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I read your post thoroughly and it seems you are more in a higher % of Weaver players who are able to master the game quite well, really the main issue is that you are putting this much effort in for when you could play any other class and it would of been faster, easier and required about 50% less input.

An example of the build you posted is full Damage, so if I'm understanding correctly you only used Fire + Air, nothing else - So if anyone playing a Weaver wants to utilize, the entire classes tool kit they might as well not bother - The discussion isn't also just following a Zerker build, we are discussing weaver as a whole. This is the issue many players face that they say "Well I did it so you just follow me" rather than pointing out the obvious flaws with Weaver.

I can't speak for WvW because we aren't talking about WvW, this thread specifically was speaking about Open World, I don't count Fractals or Raids as open world sadly. I'm also finding it hard to see how with full zerkers you got stunned by golems and never went down ONCE - That's very insane, you've also not specified how long this entire run took, just that you did it.

The issue with weaver is that getting any stacks of might (A feat most classes can now achieve easily) + Some form of Quickness or Alacrity doesn't even exist for Weaver

Towards the end of your post you just devolve into childish discussions about how we're "complaining" about the least played class in the entire game. If you look at most groups in Open world content (And lets say raids as well) you'll be hard pressed to find people playing Ele's or Weavers because everything else is just far better than what we have.

If you can't keep the discussion open and you just say "Well, I'm good at it so you're opinion is wrong!!!" then don't bother replying my guy, this thread and many threads on this form are discussing the same thing, so if you are refusing to engage in the conversation by simply showing off that you're a better player than 99% of other people might I suggest humbling yourself to the level of others and understanding not everyone enjoys playing just power builds or soloing things?

Personally because I'm sure you're wondering what I do, I like to play JUST open World, I enjoy doing Metas and the like - I could play my Weaver and do sub-par damage, or I could play pretty much any other class and not only buff allies when I tag up, I could also provide them buffs and better damage overall.

My main love of Elementalist is using Condi builds because of the fact you have TWENTY different skills to utilize and that's fun - What's not fun is that if you utilize all of these you're still trash and you'd be better off playing another class. Right now I'm running Trailblazers armor with Celestial trinkets, not optimal at all but it's fun - all I'm trying to do is have more fun with my Weaver, when I play with my Harbinger friend who gives me LITERALLY EVERY BUFF IN THE GAME with the press of two skills, I question what the hell I'm doing struggling to produce a bit of might.

Why does Weaver get left behind when you compare other classes and elite specs?

[Flame Of The Titan.3649]

Forms are hard
 

Edited June 19 by Flame Of The Titan.3649