Axe thief need a carefully look at, unhealthy for most of builds to fight against.

[Ekyw.7426]

Thief always owned the spvp, stealth, mobility, high burst, CCs we are used to it. Yes condi axe thief is overpower atm, we know, but why nobody talking about power axe thief?

Build a 2 second 13-15k combo while in stealth plenty of time in a short duration, while the defensive cooldown of most profession are over 30 + sec.

https://imgur.com/a/KlCiho2

https://imgur.com/a/VhIV4hl

Against builds that are glass cannon, like Chrono/mirage power, Willbender, if you make a mistake with evades/def CD you still have chance to overcome that, against an axe combo you don't, good thief will easily evade your cc combo, coz it's a thief...

Maybe some professions have advantage against this build, before putting your opnion, play 1500+ rating on ranked with atleast 3 differents professions.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

3 minutes ago, Ekyw.7426 said:

before putting your opnion, play 1500+ rating on ranked with atleast 3 differents professions.

No true Scotsman, I say you need at least 2,700+ with 4 different professions before you post an opinion.

[Ekyw.7426]

Oh sorry, forgot the pvp is dead and we only have 80 players 1500 + rating on NA.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

11 minutes ago, Ekyw.7426 said:

Oh sorry, forgot the pvp is dead and we only have 80 players 1500 + rating on NA.

It's actually more like 15-20 actual players running several alts to bog up top 100, and 90% of those accounts used are running various methods of match manipulation to even achieve 1500+.

It's truly just an actual sh!tshow at this point and Arenanet REALLY needs to replace the 5v5 duo queue only mode with something that's intrinsic design prevents such match manipulation to begin with. The real evil here is duo only, leaving 3 PUG slots for synch queues.

At this point I'd much rather have a perma 2v2 or 3v3 for full ranked seasons, and leave 5v5 conquest for ATs. At least with a lineup like this, no one can land a PUG throw on your team.

[Voodoo.3201]

Axe is dogshit against people who have monitor turned on

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

What do you mean? Playing "dodge the 1 shot" coming from an invisible teleporting opponent is amazing gameplay.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

 

1 hour ago, Ekyw.7426 said:

Against builds that are glass cannon, like Chrono/mirage power, Willbender, if you make a mistake with evades/def CD you still have chance to overcome that

The axe counterplay should be obvious, so im just gonna focus on this part here.

Because if you make a mistake vs willbender or power mes you instantly die if the mes or wb is worth their kit. They usually have less setup required to kill you, too.

Edited June 18 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Terrorhuz.4695]

53 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The axe counterplay should be obvious, so im just gonna focus on this part here.

Because if you make a mistake vs willbender or power mes you instantly die if the mes or wb is worth their kit. They usually have less setup required to kill you, too.

Yeah man, listen, IDK how to tell you. But DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.

Can we agree that this stopped being PvP and it just became some unusually CPU intensive afk simulator?

And don't get me wrong, axe needs an actual design, I'm aware of the issues a thief faces when using it. It's only carried by daredevil's dodge counting as a leap, without that it would be the worst weapon in the meta by far.

But being freecasted on for 30 minutes with 0 chances of fighting back is not a game. CAN'T CAST THIEF IS IN STEALTH, SKILL MISSES BECAUSE OF FREE BLIND, SKILL DOES NOTHING BECAUSE OF FREE WEAKNESS, LANDED SOMETHING oh wait of course thieves still get to shadowstep\dagger storm\healing skill with evade\random stuff. Either I land a random reflect (good luck with the axes coming from stealth) or just rotate away hoping the thief isn't faster than I am (might or might not be the case, and the axes will track insanely hard)

Edited June 18 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

35 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Yeah man, listen, IDK how to tell you. But DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.
Then DD throws the axes, you dodge them; the DD will pistol5 into daredevil dodge and they're in stealth.

Can we agree that this stopped being PvP and it just became some unusually CPU intensive afk simulator?

And don't get me wrong, axe needs an actual design, I'm aware of the issues a thief faces when using it. It's only carried by daredevil's dodge counting as a leap, without that it would be the worst weapon in the meta by far.

 

Funny, accurate 

Quote

But being freecasted on for 30 minutes with 0 chances of fighting back is not a game. CAN'T CAST THIEF IS IN STEALTH, SKILL MISSES BECAUSE OF FREE BLIND, SKILL DOES NOTHING BECAUSE OF FREE WEAKNESS, LANDED SOMETHING oh wait of course thieves still get to shadowstep\dagger storm\healing skill with evade\random stuff.

Same thought process when I meet a power block mes or virt on warrior ngl 

I don't disagree with you, this design imbalance is just not new 

Call me jaded, but for every mes I've blown up with axes because they didnt take mirror and play my toxic stall game with me, I've been blown up by a power block mes because I didn't have enough stab to play their toxic QTE minigame with them. 

And if you think about it, that overwhelming frustration gnawing at you when you run into something your kit cannot beat is balance when you look at the grand scheme of things namaste 🙏

Edited June 18 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Terrorhuz.4695]

24 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I've been blown up by a power block mes because I didn't have enough stab to play their toxic QTE minigame with them

Azure please, I like you too much to believe you of all people can't LoS while using mending

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

8 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Azure please, I like you too much to believe you of all people can't LoS while using mending

Blink/jaunt to maintain line of sight or shatter 3 goes crazy Terrorhuz.

I have to precast my heal while getting actively damaged and pray blink is still on cd if I commit to it

All I'm saying is hell comes in many flavors.

Edited June 18 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 minute ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Blink/jaunt to maintain line of sight goes crazy Terrorhuz

Can I say this kind of play is a bit riskier, more counterable and requires more skill than dodging into pistol5 forever..?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Can I say this kind of play is a bit riskier, more counterable and requires more skill than dodging into pistol5 forever..?

Sure can.

I'm totally fine conceding that, but keep in mind blink and distraction are both instant, and bound allows most skills with a cast time to track stealth during the leap. You can precast to hit a bound thief.  To win a powerblock mes you have to think faster than then -and- have their cooldowns on your watch, as war.

But yes, not having a target is frustrating. Aggressively so.

Edited June 18 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Terrorhuz.4695]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

You can precast to hit a bound thief

The only meaningful skills mesmer has to do that are scepter3 (which you don't care about; you wait the confusion in stealth) and virtuoso f1/f2; the others either don't deal damage or are single hits, negated by the blind from pistol5. IDK about other classes, but from what I could gather they're all facing similar issues when axe daredevil is around

Edited June 18 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

10 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

The only meaningful skill mesmer has to do that are scepter3 and virtuoso f1/f2; the others either don't deal damage or are single hits, negated by the blind from pistol5. IDK about other classes,

 

Spoiler

Mirror blade also works.  @Vinny.7260 showed me that if you're clever you can even mind stab the ground where your clone is created/ your blade bounced to force dodges or damage on a stealthed thief besides. I'm pretty sure pistol also works. Dagger 3 throws daggers in the thiefs direction too. Stacks with first thing I said. 

 

And all of this stacks further with mirror ofc

Quote

but from what I could gather they're all facing similar issues when axe daredevil is around

I don't care enough to argue this the writing is on the wall already for axes. Pretty sure they'll get nerfed to be clunky AND bad then players will magically figure out the counter after as always 👾

Just pointing out that said matchup has its mechanical counterparts. 

 

Edited June 18 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

14 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

(which you don't care about; you wait the confusion in stealth) 

Correction. I remove the confusion in stealth. ❤️

[bq pd.2148]

19 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

The only meaningful skill mesmer has to do that are scepter3 (which you don't care about; you wait the confusion in stealth) and virtuoso f1/f2; the others either don't deal damage or are single hits, negated by the blind from pistol5. IDK about other classes, but from what I could gather they're all facing similar issues when axe daredevil is around

i also do find a dagger ambush cast to hit after bound very annoying, especially as the clones are a bit slower and will hit even later.  because then i have to wait for it to finish before i can use another cunning salvo. 15s cooldown on stealth attack up from 1s is not fun.
and the power coef. on axe 2 or AA axes is per axe a joke compared to the stealth attack one, but maybe in spvp you dont need that, you don't fight cele people there after all.

[ccccc.4963]

@silly lil guy is traumatizing everyone forreal anet please intervene 

[Endo.1652]

Axe teef stinky! Pee-ew! 🤢💀

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

Yes, I've already made two whole forum posts about how absurd axe thief is, specifically the condi variants. Its 6 spinning axes 3 skill combo does WAYYY too much damage. the weapon skill 3 is also bugged, giving it infinite range if you start cast with no target, then retarget the skill. 

 

  Overall just needs a major tweak or rework, especially the bugged interaction with retargeting. As I said, I've already make 2 posts about it and this is the second or third forum post created by someone else. Clearly the consensus is that Anet should take immediate action to neutralize the spec.

 

Can't say I care about power axe that much, maybe it's super strong, but it's def weaker than condi. Most abusers are playing condi variants, so I haven't faced power enough for any personal judgement. 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Mirror blade also works.

No it doesn't, gs2 will entirely miss because of blind.

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Vinny.7260 showed me that if you're clever you can even mind stab the ground where your clone is created/ your blade bounced to force dodges or damage on a stealthed thief besides.

You can noscope gs3 but it's a 1.0 coefficient, it does nothing unless you stacked might\vuln from gs2. Even under the best circumstances you'll hit your 2k AoE and that's it. 

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm pretty sure pistol also works. Dagger 3 throws daggers in the thiefs direction too. Stacks with first thing I said. 

I don't think the phantasm from pistol4 will track a stealthed target, IIRC it shoots at the last target location if it managed to get a clean LoS to start the cast; if the target became invisible, the cast will not start until stealth end, and the phantasm will disappear entirely if the stealth lasts longer than 4s.

As for dagger3... have you actually ever USED the skill? It deals 400 damage, you can literally sit inside the storm for the entire duration

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

And all of this stacks further with mirror ofc

A well timed mirror is the only actual counter, and when it works it's actually catastrophic for the thief.

[Skary.8956]

I dont understand how much more time they need to fix this.
It's kinda insane that people complain about rifle deadeye while we have this axe kitten in the game.
Both condi and power deal absurd amount of dmg.
In general the mechanic that you can get hit from outside of your screen with absurd projectile speed for 10k is insane

 

[Kuya.6495]

The solution is simple: I will make a spellbreaker and name it Axe Cop and this will scare away all the Axe thieves. 

Edited June 18 by Kuya.6495

[Shagie.7612]

Why does the condi version do as much if not more condi damage than me, while being effectively immune to my condi counterpressure?

Why does the power version do as much as Gunflame but have, and this is hard to actually overstate, roughly infinitely more survivability, mobility, blinds, and even the potential to hit from infinite range (though in a pretty janky way that I bet none of the devs thought would even happen)? That's as Strength/Arms too, while the Teef gets to run a utility traitline in SA?

I know that I play things that are pretty bad because I find them fun, but I don't understand how disparities like that can be left for so long.

e: I will say that I think thief axe is an interesting idea and it's clear it was built with PvE-first in mind, in that they wanted to create a weapon that wasn't just "spam x skill because it's the best damage per initiative" like thief weapons tend to be in PvE, but in practice it's not working out here in PvP, imo

Edited June 18 by Shagie.7612

[Skary.8956]

Most broken out of the bunch is Sinister Amulet Power, Precision and Condi + Daredevil, Trickery(with steal applies bleeding) + Deadly Arts.
Pistol 5 + Bound, Normal Hit, Axe 2 x2, steal, Axe 3
Deletes light armor dummy almost instantly.
Same combo kills Medium in 0.5 second.
Heavy in around 1 secs + leftover condies another 50%
60% on a target dummy 💀 65%% if you get lucky with the crits