Can we please have a way to get account-wide 150 Agony Resistance?

[HeliosMagi.9867]

I really don't like how you have to get Agony Resist to 150 on a per character basis (and if you don't have legendary gear, a per build basis.) It makes it a pain to do Fractals on multiple characters, and it prevents me from using stat infusions (and before anyone brings it up, yes, statted Agony infusions do exist, but they're way too expensive. A full set of Mighty +9 infusions cost nearly as much as a Gen 1 Legendary Weapon.)

I think a good way to implement account-wide Agony Res would be to simply add another tab to the Fractal Account Augmentations vendor where you can spend agony infusions to gain account-wide Agony Resistance, up to a maximum of 150. This could be balanced by costing more infusions than it would take to get a single character to 150 Agony Resistance, and/or require you to reach Personal Fractal Level 100 to unlock it.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

That's would make me play Fractals again. 

 

Edited June 27 by DanAlcedo.3281

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

Agreed, Account AR being in the game would be very helpful.

[Nash.2681]

They could add legendary agony infusions, but that would be huge overhaul of the existing system, since they'd have to find a way how to include +stats and +stats cosmetic infusions aswell. I don't think the expense is worth it. Especially in times where it's easier than ever to get asc. gear and agony infusions. But I agree it would be a nice QoL.

[TheNurgle.4825]

It could be introduced as Mastery with some "quest" chain without touching current system. So no need to change legacy code.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i think they just need to expand the current account upgrades from 45 agony resist to 150 so that once you're a fractal god you never have to think about it again, and getting even the first tier of the titles would be a substantial boost to any newer player in regards to agony resistance.

Edited June 28 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Nimris.3781]

letting us have 150 account wide agony is just wrong in so many ways, moreover OP reasoning is that stat infusions are expensive, he doesnt want to pay, but wants to have stat infusions on every spec, lol... you dont need stat infusions for every spec there is to do daily fractals... 🤦‍♂️

first of it doesnt solve any issue for new player (especially if you tie it to fractal god!!!), upgrades are pricy, time consuming and if they introduce anything new it will be expensive as hell (not neceserily gold, but fractal currency as well) - this will only boost veterans and widen the gap even further (320+agony with stat infusions dps support, lol ) - who are you trying to help?

besides making it 150 account wide will kill the market for +9+5 agony as everyone will start using wvw ones everywhere - thats for both fractal agony (matrices) but also raid dropped or event dropped that sell on tp

anet already made it much much easier to obtain ascended items, which actually helps new players and regular +9 is cheap, can easily afford entire set after day of farming.

i have different proposal, lets adjust wvw infusions prices so instead of badges of honor, they each require 500 memories of battle? this would even out prices for every game mode

 

Edited June 29 by Nimris.3781

[Sobx.1758]

Maybe swim infusions are some kind of test run here, although if we compare the initial values needed for the "base" infusion slotted, I'm not sure it would help the average player 😄 

[TexZero.7910]

I've said it before, i guess i have to say it again....
So how do you plan on compensating those of us who unlike you did go out of our way to get agony infusions for every build we want to play including stat infusions ?

Edited June 30 by TexZero.7910

[ArchonWing.9480]

25 minutes ago, TexZero.7910 said:

I've said it before, i guess i have to say it again....
So how do you plan on compensating those of us who unlike you did go out of our way to get agony infusions for every build we want to play including stat infusions ?

T4 Fractals are one of the most profitable activities in the game. The ROI from investing in 150+ agony resist should be more than enough a long time ago. Asking for additional compensation is unreasonable unless someone made them in the past few months.

Also there is some value in going above 150 agony resist too. They could just have 150 as base and allow us to stack our existing infusions on top of that.

Besides account bound agony does exist already-- albeit rather costly and not that much.

Edited June 30 by ArchonWing.9480

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

I do like Soft's suggestion of simply increasing thecap/ tiers of AR Account Boost given, and it doesnt even have to be a full 150.

We could have the current 4 tiers be the end, most expensive 20 AR, and frontload 8+ cheaper +5 AR boosts to the beginning of the upgrade tiers.
The key would be to keep the first 4 x +5s Account Boosts cheaper than 12 gold, so ANY new player can cheaply do EVERY content in T1 without having a single Infusion, OR the other Account AR upgrades.
We can then have incrementing costs, that aren't as expensive for each 4 x +5 set, finally going up to the original 4.
Any person who has completed 1/2/3/4 of the original AR upgrade will then gain the benefits of ALL new tiers up to the current upgrade stage they are in, without paying ANYTHING for the newly added AR bonuses.

This way, ppl who want to try Fractals can simply pay a relatively cheap price, do any t1 content and refund the cost of 12g by simply playing 2 days worth of dailies+recs to roughly 6g.
And old players dont get shafted for their effort.

[zeyeti.8347]

Could add legendary infusions with +5 stats switchable , i know it will not help new players as it will be very long and pricy to do but giving somehow +150 ar account wide will completely brake fractals as you will have people with 357 ar , who convert into boon duration , thougness and vitality

For the new player i would simply lower the ar need on t4 , having access to t2 and t3 is relatively easy as you can loot rings with already 2 infusions slots and adding the 3rd one is very cheap , but were new player struggle is having a full ascended armor and weapon.

Note : now with the vault you can easily have those if you are patient enough. And ppl always forgot the blue potion giving +15 Ar can sometimes bypass the Ar cap needed , they could also change how mistlock singularities work , not removing the +5 ar when you are supposed to be downed or even increase it to +10 , not gonna change the slightest for speedrunners , but could effectively help new players recahing t4 more easily.

Were fractals Ar mechanic is kitten is about switching class , having one to 150  ar is ok , but when you start trying all other class it really become nauseating.

[TheIceman.1039]

On 6/27/2024 at 5:38 AM, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

I really don't like how you have to get Agony Resist to 150 on a per character basis (and if you don't have legendary gear, a per build basis.) It makes it a pain to do Fractals on multiple characters, and it prevents me from using stat infusions (and before anyone brings it up, yes, statted Agony infusions do exist, but they're way too expensive. A full set of Mighty +9 infusions cost nearly as much as a Gen 1 Legendary Weapon.)

I think a good way to implement account-wide Agony Res would be to simply add another tab to the Fractal Account Augmentations vendor where you can spend agony infusions to gain account-wide Agony Resistance, up to a maximum of 150. This could be balanced by costing more infusions than it would take to get a single character to 150 Agony Resistance, and/or require you to reach Personal Fractal Level 100 to unlock it.

Legendary agony infusions? 😄

[HeliosMagi.9867]

15 hours ago, TexZero.7910 said:

I've said it before, i guess i have to say it again....
So how do you plan on compensating those of us who unlike you did go out of our way to get agony infusions for every build we want to play including stat infusions ?

Simple, you can take the infusions you already have out of your gear and spend them on account-wide Agony resistance, and if you have any leftover after hitting 150 you can sell them on the TP.

 

8 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

giving somehow +150 ar account wide will completely brake fractals as you will have people with 357 ar , who convert into boon duration , thougness and vitality

This could be solved by simply setting the cap for Agony Resistance to 150, with only things like the Fractal Account Augments and the Tear of Alba being allowed to go beyond this limit.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i think there's another potential solution, would be to simply make agony resistance work like magic find. you would be able to increase it account-wide by consuming agony infusions, and temporarily increase it per-character using buffs such as the tear of alba.

Edited June 30 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[TexZero.7910]

18 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

T4 Fractals are one of the most profitable activities in the game. The ROI from investing in 150+ agony resist should be more than enough a long time ago. Asking for additional compensation is unreasonable unless someone made them in the past few months.

Also there is some value in going above 150 agony resist too. They could just have 150 as base and allow us to stack our existing infusions on top of that.

Besides account bound agony does exist already-- albeit rather costly and not that much.

Not debating fractals being profitable.
The point here is just like every major change to a system there is always some form of compensation that has to go out and saying "Oh just TP it" isn't really valuable feedback on the system change. Not only does it not take into account the Stat bonuses from infusions it directly undermines the time and cost sunk into said characters. After all the entire reason said proposition even exists is that "its too burdensome a system". Read into burdensome however you want but at the end of the day part of that is quite clearly cost and that cost is not something you can just recover with a speculative change.

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, TexZero.7910 said:

Not debating fractals being profitable.
The point here is just like every major change to a system there is always some form of compensation that has to go out and saying "Oh just TP it" isn't really valuable feedback on the system change.

Of course the value matters. Also we're not talking about the TP.

In general the basis for most refunds/compensation in this game has been based off of how long people have had something. A lot of things don't get refunded, because it's assumed that the player has owned something long enough to have gotten enough value of it. Like if you purchase something and they change it in 2 weeks, you will likely receive a refund.

Also any compensation rarely meets the full value; for example only 1 legendary rune was needed for 1 legendary relic.

Furthermore, this is especially true if any account bound agony infusion is earned in game, and if it's top of existing agony so the agony infusions you have are not nullified-- you certainly cannot claim the loss here.

And honestly, I really don't think there's a case. It is unreasonable to claim a loss for the value of 150 agony resist because it is impractical to do (t4) fractals without them. You can't really argue that you would have chosen to not put agony infusions in your equipment had you known otherwise. That would basically be claiming the expenses as a loss but you wouldn't have earned anything from t4 fractals without said expense.

Case in point, many people wanted refunds for the now obsolete ascended armor when the legendary armory came out, but didn't get any because there really wasn't a case for a loss-- they would have crafted the armor regardless.

Anyhow, all these changes are theoretical, and my point is more that any compensation probably won't be very meaningful.

Edited June 30 by ArchonWing.9480

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Of course the value matters. Also we're not talking about the TP.

In general the basis for most refunds/compensation in this game has been based off of how long people have had something. A lot of things don't get refunded, because it's assumed that the player has owned something long enough to have gotten enough value of it. Like if you purchase something and they change it in 2 weeks, you will likely receive a refund.

Also any compensation rarely meets the full value; for example only 1 legendary rune was needed for 1 legendary relic.

Furthermore, this is especially true if any account bound agony infusion is earned in game, and if it's top of existing agony so the agony infusions you have are not nullified-- you certainly cannot claim the loss here.

And honestly, I really don't think there's a case. It is unreasonable to claim a loss for the value of 150 agony resist because it is impractical to do (t4) fractals without them. You can't really argue that you would have chosen to not put agony infusions in your equipment had you known otherwise. That would basically be claiming the expenses as a loss but you wouldn't have earned anything from t4 fractals without said expense.

Case in point, many people wanted refunds for the now obsolete ascended armor when the legendary armory came out, but didn't get any because there really wasn't a case for a loss-- they would have crafted the armor regardless.

Anyhow, all these changes are theoretical, and my point is more that any compensation probably won't be very meaningful.

Well if there is no loss then everyone else can earn their agony infusions on however many characters they want too right?

[TexZero.7910]

2 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

And honestly, I really don't think there's a case. It is unreasonable to claim a loss for the value of 150 agony resist because it is impractical to do (t4) fractals without them. You can't really argue that you would have chosen to not put agony infusions in your equipment had you known otherwise. That would basically be claiming the expenses as a loss but you wouldn't have earned anything from t4 fractals without said expense.

Anyhow, all these changes are theoretical, and my point is more that any compensation probably won't be very meaningful.

Except it's not just 150 AR.

It's Then Number of Characters i have X Number of possible infusions which is the entire reason people in this thread want a change to begin with.
If it's not that big a deal as you put it (and i don't disagree as i have done it many times including stat infusions) then why change it ?
If the system does need a change then compensations do need to occur, sorry that's just how it is. People including the OP asking people like myself with many fractal ready characters to just sell off our infusions with a new system which is ironic given that in said system our obtained infusions would be worth far less than they currently are as the market supply for infusions is already at equilibrium and the proposed changes would only reduce the demand for them.

[ArchonWing.9480]

12 minutes ago, TexZero.7910 said:

Except it's not just 150 AR.

It's Then Number of Characters i have X Number of possible infusions which is the entire reason people in this thread want a change to begin with.
If it's not that big a deal as you put it (and i don't disagree as i have done it many times including stat infusions) then why change it ?
If the system does need a change then compensations do need to occur, sorry that's just how it is. People including the OP asking people like myself with many fractal ready characters to just sell off our infusions with a new system which is ironic given that in said system our obtained infusions would be worth far less than they currently are as the market supply for infusions is already at equilibrium and the proposed changes would only reduce the demand for them.

Well, you could still benefit if you want X+1 characters someday.  This is also why I and others proposed stacking it on top of existing infusions so people will want them anyways. I have 190 AR on multiple characters with stat infusions  thanks to the augmentations and I wouldn't scale them down to 150 regardless. If I could have 300 AR I definitely wouldn't.

The majority of stat infusions are wanted for their visual effects over the AR/stat anyways.

As for why change it? Well, it'd allow new players to play t4s without the need to fully infuse all slots.

I mean obviously I don't care either way but personally I wouldn't care for compensation if it means more players are doing content

Edited July 1 by ArchonWing.9480

[TexZero.7910]

53 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

As for why change it? Well, it'd allow new players to play t4s without the need to fully infuse all slots.

I mean obviously I don't care either way but personally I wouldn't care for compensation if it means more players are doing content

Why should new players be slingshotted into T4 ?

I see no harm in having a system that gradually encourages them to improve not only their gear but their understanding.

Also, as evidenced by this thread and the lack of new players posting, it's kinda sus to be using the "think of the kids" line of thought when it's the old farts who are in here complaining that it's too much of a burden to do it again, not a new player.

[ArchonWing.9480]

25 minutes ago, TexZero.7910 said:

Why should new players be slingshotted into T4 ?

I see no harm in having a system that gradually encourages them to improve not only their gear but their understanding.

Also, as evidenced by this thread and the lack of new players posting, it's kinda sus to be using the "think of the kids" line of thought when it's the old farts who are in here complaining that it's too much of a burden to do it again, not a new player.

*Shrugs* I just generally think newer players are more likely to encounter these problems. It is simply one possible reason.

Also OP did state the suggestion was through account augmentation so it's not like it's going to just be handed out to anyone.

I have no idea who OP or other posters actually are, so I'm not going to speculate  on what agendas they have.   Also this thread has like 20 posts and even less unique users while buried in a subforum so I wouldn't really use that as evidence of anything-- new players wouldn't be posting here regardless of topic frequently.

Edited July 1 by ArchonWing.9480

[HeliosMagi.9867]

I think I'd have less an issue with agony infusions if swapping them out wasn't such a pain. I have legendary gear, why can't i click a box to swap out all of my infusions at once instead of having to do them one by one? If it's such as issue with people who already got full agony resistance on multiple characters, would adding Legendary infusions be better?

[Nimris.3781]

13 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

As for why change it? Well, it'd allow new players to play t4s without the need to fully infuse all slots.

12 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Shrugs* I just generally think newer players are more likely to encounter these problems. It is simply one possible reason.

Also OP did state the suggestion was through account augmentation so it's not like it's going to just be handed out to anyone.

who are you trying to fool here? even OP himself stated in the very first post that "It makes it a pain to do Fractals on multiple characters, and it prevents me from using stat infusions."

stat infusions, adding more pricy account augments and even legendary infusions(!) great suggestions i am sure new players care about them /s

do you know whats the daily struggle of new player? definitely not "oh i cannot use stat infusions on my 17th character...", their main struggle is getting full ascended gear (especially accessories because they dont have living worlds) and even if they do, it can take few weeks to get full set. moreover, some stat combos are hard to come by, gated by living world/expansion (ritualist, diviner, harier recipies etc.)

i myself gave away easily 10+ sets of ascended armor (in materials) so that players could craft items and get into fractals. agony was always w/e anyone could buy it of tp, but items to put them into, now that was challange.

 

the only people here that "struggle" with agony infusions are full legendary dudes with dozens of character - am i not gonna support that.

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

4 hours ago, Nimris.3781 said:

who are you trying to fool here? even OP himself stated in the very first post that "It makes it a pain to do Fractals on multiple characters, and it prevents me from using stat infusions."

stat infusions, adding more pricy account augments and even legendary infusions(!) great suggestions i am sure new players care about them /s

do you know whats the daily struggle of new player? definitely not "oh i cannot use stat infusions on my 17th character...", their main struggle is getting full ascended gear (especially accessories because they dont have living worlds) and even if they do, it can take few weeks to get full set. moreover, some stat combos are hard to come by, gated by living world/expansion (ritualist, diviner, harier recipies etc.)

i myself gave away easily 10+ sets of ascended armor (in materials) so that players could craft items and get into fractals. agony was always w/e anyone could buy it of tp, but items to put them into, now that was challange.

 

the only people here that "struggle" with agony infusions are full legendary dudes with dozens of character - am i not gonna support that.

 

Who am I trying to fool? Not sure. I mean it whether it happens or not doesn't bother me at all, so you tell me. Like I have fractal only characters so I don't need to move infusions around at all.

I don't care what OP thinks. Our arguments are not the same nor does OP cover all possible scenarios.

Also that part you  quoted is literally what I said?

Like yea their struggle is getting ascended gear because without enough, they can't fit enough infusions to reach 150 AR.  Sure ascended is better than exotic, but that's not the main reason why it's needed for fractals. So if we had some base AR, then they wouldn't need some ascended pieces to begin with.

Edited July 1 by ArchonWing.9480