Janthir Wilds Spear Beta Event Feedback: Ranger

[Pharmacist.5410]

In regards to how it performs in WvW I’ll list the pros and cons: (skip to bottom for a TLDR)

pros:

-just the right amount of mobility needed since the stealth addition from jaguar and spear 5 can now be combined to compensate mobility from the likes of GS or Staff.

- the overall toolkit is a great secondary to keep actively striking in and out which allows it to be versatile and work with virtually any other weapon combination swap as primary.

-spear 3 and 2 do a decent amount of damage when they land (especially crit).

-Spear 4 daze+evade work very well with proper set up to choose to engage or disengage.

-the stealth ambush skills are very effective in the right hands. 

cons:

-first of all the color gradient of animation are wrong and needs to be more (ranger green)

-unleashed skill is melee only with no bonuses like the other unleashed weapons. There has  to be a way for it to be beneficial when using the weapon even when at 900-1200 range. A lot of the times I just end up having to wait for the unleash buff to expire when enemies aren’t in range.

-unleashed skill interrupts auto attacks while at range, I end up having to unleash after a weapon swap while just swinging at the air to then continue hitting my opponent with autos at range. Again, If the unleash was also bimodal/projectile/range aoe (like short bow/longbow/axe) it would make more sense because they all share ranged capabilities. Or atleast Bare minimum , a short range gap closer ( like Sword ambush) to help it track targets if it’s just going to stay melee. Unleashed ambush needs work, bottom line. 
-Auto attacks lack a bit of damage.

Overall: TLDR

The weapon is headed in the right direction of fulfilling the fantasy of a versatile stalker playstyle minor. Has small burst windows with a high skill ceiling that requires proper chaining of skills to be ferocious. Capable of surviving and fighting versus outnumbered. Can combine any weapon swap and be effective. Just needs that final touch.. a proper unleashed ambush that follows the bimodal design or that adds a benefit and doesn’t disrupt the flow of auto attacks that deal a bit more damage.

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 02:40 PM by Pharmacist.5410

[evasivemonkey.8961]

Visually the skills are really nice, but they hit like a wet napkin unfortunately. I think across the board the numbers need to be raised, OR you can add bleed and poison condis to so some of the abilities, and make it more of a hybrid weapon. As a mostly condi player I know I'm biased, but we really have quite enough pure power two handed weapons as ranger, and hammer and great sword are very potent.

I do think the stealth and ambush mechanics need a little more tuning, there's not really enough difference between the base and stealth attack versions of the abilities. I think adding a few offensive boons to the stealth attacks would be nice, or just raising the damage would work fine. I'd like to see more variety in the actual effects of the ability, but even just a damage boost would be better than what it is right now. Additionally, the revealed duration seems too long, and makes the stealth mechanic feel clunky.

The leap is a little small, I don't think we need something as long as the staff movement ability, but it's a little puny at the moment. Maybe increase the base range, and increase it further when coming out of stealth.

I like the spear, or at least I think I'll like the spear in the future. It feels like when it's a more complete weapon it will be very fun to use, but it's for sure not finished. But that's the point of the beta, so keep it up and thank you for giving us great content!

 

 

Pls add bleed/poison I'm begging you.

[Aesyr.6059]

14 hours ago, Khalif.2076 said:

THIS 1000%  right now we essentially only have 4 skills to use. the simplest "fix" imo is to keep "stealth" and non stealth skill cds separate.

when i stealth, i should get access to my stealth skills independent of the main skill CD

That's exactly what I thought, honestly if this was a thing the weapon would feel so much better ! But there's a problem. Stealth skills aren't tied exclusively to the 5 skill. They are tied with, well, stealth. Which means it synergies with all other stealth sources, and that could make it quite broken 😕

But they could try to balance starting from here, it would be a fun weapon that's for sure !

Edited Friday at 04:26 PM by Aesyr.6059

[ProtoMarcus.7649]

12 hours ago, Johnny.1634 said:

Not a single skill interacts with our pet what-so-ever...you know....our WHOLE PROFESSION MECHANIC....

Yet another disappointment. You guys just never seem to learn.

 

[5] SPIDER'S WEB (stealthed 5) grants superspeed to the pet

[frazazel.7501]

12 minutes ago, Aesyr.6059 said:

That's exactly what I thought, honestly if this was a thing the weapon would feel so much better ! But there's a problem. Stealth skills aren't tied exclusively to the 5 skill. They are tied with stealth, which means if synergies with all other stealth sources, which could make it quite broken 😕

But they could try to balance starting from here, it would be a fun weapon that's for sure !

Ranger doesn't have that many other sources of stealth. There are 2 pet F2 skills, there's a longbow skill (kinda hard to use, requiring a weapon swap), and there's the druid trait that gives stealth when coming out of celestial avatar (but druid has no power damage build, so spears don't work on druid).

So we're talking potentially 1 extra stealth per weapon swap from longbow, and up to 2 more if you put both of your pets on stealth duty. But with the Revealed mechanic, this is mostly redundant. You're probably not going to get more than 3 empowered attacks off before you swap back to your other weapon.

[MagicalLeaf.1307]

I just don't particularly understand the direction. Yes having the 1 is cool being melee and ranged, but ALL the damage including unleashed is melee based. So what's really the point of having it be ranged? I think that there should be skills for each ability based on melee/ranged.

[MagicalLeaf.1307]

-delete-

Edited Friday at 04:40 PM by MagicalLeaf.1307
duplication

[noobymaniac.9483]

17 hours ago, mandala.8507 said:

The effects on these skills are amazing, but I think they could be more impactful sounding. I would go back and compare to the core ranger "spirit creature" attacks like greatsword 2 and 3, sword 3, etc. to match them sonically. It literally might just be a relative volume thing, because I do hear them, but it's so quiet.

There could also be a little more definition in the spirit animals on the stealth attacks for spear 2 and 3. Genuinely such a great touch, but they're a bit too subtle compared to the absolutely massive spear 4 creature.

I really do like the spirit aspect of ranger weapons, but I gotta agree. The spear 4 creature needs to be adjusted and scaled down a bit.

Edited Friday at 05:16 PM by noobymaniac.9483

[frazazel.7501]

It would be great if spear 4 could also allow you get to places you couldn't normally just jump to.

[China.5268]

I keep asking myself why, simply why trollnet keep giving ranger more MELEE  weapons when they already have mace, sword, hammer and greatsword.

The community has been asking for years pistol, rifle and even ranged scepter, and when we finally think we will get a new RANGED WEAPON, they give spear oh wait... spear cool but... trollnet makes it melee...

Yes, they 'listen the community'...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Batalix.2873]

20 minutes ago, China.5268 said:

I keep asking myself why, simply why trollnet keep giving ranger more MELEE  weapons when they already have mace, sword, hammer and greatsword.

The community has been asking for years pistol, rifle and even ranged scepter, and when we finally think we will get a new RANGED WEAPON, they give spear oh wait... spear cool but... trollnet makes it melee...

Yes, they 'listen the community'...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

It's not melee though. It's hybrid. Also I hope we never get pistol or rifle on ranger, and the scepter should be a whip.

[TheHeretic.3529]

Spear 2 animation is beyond the attack range. Looks like it's off by +50% or so.

The timer on Spear 5 skill flip is a little short for PvP/WvW. Can it be upped to 2 seconds? Fights move so quick that more time is needed to setup for the engagement.

Edited Friday at 06:33 PM by TheHeretic.3529

[Eurantien.4632]

Feels bad that Owl's Flight has a hard time dealing with Z-axis. If used over a pit or something it will just fall into the pit never to return. It should be an unblockable projectile.

Feels bad that you can't activate instant cast skills in the middle of the 4 leap, such as Sic Em, or Signet of Renewal.

[evasivemonkey.8961]

22 hours ago, frazazel.7501 said:

As a pie-in-the-sky wishlist item, I would love it if spear was reworked to be a condi weapon, or a hybrid damage weapon similar to ranger axe.

While axe is a ranged weapon that needs to go into melee regularly, spear feels like a melee weapon that can deal a bit of ranged damage when mechanics force you away from your target. That's not a terrible place to be in. But its ranged attack needs to not be worse single-target damage than the melee attack if this weapon wants to be taken seriously as an actual ranged weapon.

I agree! If spear filled a similar roll to axe but two handed and with the stealth util, I'd be extremely happy. 

[evasivemonkey.8961]

16 hours ago, Johnny.1634 said:

Not a single skill interacts with our pet what-so-ever...you know....our WHOLE PROFESSION MECHANIC....

Yet another disappointment. You guys just never seem to learn.

 

I agree that some pet interaction would be nice, but that's a little too harsh. They clearly have a goal in mind for the weapon, and they just need to tune it. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

4 hours ago, ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

[5] SPIDER'S WEB (stealthed 5) grants superspeed to the pet

Whee. One thing that isn't really that useful across modes.

[frazazel.7501]

19 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Whee. One thing that isn't really that useful across modes.

And on a skill that will never see play in PvE.

[Fueki.4753]

Ranger's spear felt weird to use to me.

The ranged auto-attack is one thing. But with Mongoose's Frenzy being a melee ability and Warclaw's Engage being used to get into melee Range, Falcon's Stoop being ranged feels out to place to me. Falcon's Stoop also is a bit too slow.

I don't like the Stealth gimmick. I'd rather have them scrap that and give spear a different fifth ability (or just make Spider's Web that fifth ability).

[Rainbird.9458]

What I like:
- the ranged-melee hybrid concept
- the introduction to more stealth for rangers

What I don't like:
- the damage seems lower than most other ranger melee weapons (I tried spear, sword+warhorn, dagger+warhorn, mace+mace and greatsword on Svanir and the Chieftain in the mists and the kill times on spear where the highest)
- the cooldowns also feel rather long for the low burst potential
- the stealth versions of skill 2 and 3 seemed not really worth using: a bit more damage with a delay or one unblockable attack

My overall personal impression: Promising concept that needs more tuning. 

[enkeny.6937]

14 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Whee. One thing that isn't really that useful across modes.

Pet gets swiftness and stealth from Panther's Prowl too. 
(it get something, nothing too relevant for PvE, but it is good on PvP )

[enkeny.6937]

17 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

It's not melee though. It's hybrid. Also I hope we never get pistol or rifle on ranger, and the scepter should be a whip.

As a concept it is hybrid, as reality it is melee.
So what is range here?
Spider's web. If you want damage, do Wolf's Onslaught x2. It consumes 2 ammo and deal as much damage as the bonus for Wolf's Onslaught.
Falcon's Stoop that is range skill! Remember when we throw our great sword?  For 1 skill we don't call it ranged weapon.
Bee's Sting the most disappointing skill. If it has normal damage, maybe some effect, but it is just to poke enemy (we have pets for this purpose). Maybe the concept was, that your pet will do damage and with this skill it will be around a normal range auto attack. Problem is that longbow can do the same role with double damage. (and 4 more ranged option)

They need to work for the ranged part of the weapon the most. Then finish the ambush skill and then balance the damage. 

I refuse to call it range variant as long as a shotrbow is better damage option for ranged power build

[quake.9023]

first impression. prefer this over some melee weapon cause of its versatility 

the stealth always gets interrupted by something before can cast, prob auto att? from pet ? idk.....dnt like it.

no4 skill warclaw graphic is too big. no5 skill web is so ugly, eye sore. 

prob needs some more, like some block or might on weapon skill

[purp.1806]

Spear is effectively useless in PvE. No boons (swiftness is a joke), a dodge with a limited 600 range, and the worst damage of any weapon setup besides staff. How did ANET nerf my sacred maces so ruthlessly and now we're getting a literal toothpick of a weapon? I really hope they re-design half these skills from the ground-up, because this is depressingly bad.

[Zyreva.1078]

WvW roaming perspective:

Problem Nr. 1: It's a (mediocre) power weapon in a cele bunker boonspam meta.

Problem Nr. 2: Everything reveals the player. I get it, it's supposed to be played like a thief who pops in and out of stealth constantly, but ranger doesn't have all the thief traits that support that kind of playstyle, so using stealth just to get those slightly enhanced spear skills feels like a complete waste. Ranger wants to use stealth either defensively, to disengage or to cover the burst and surprise the enemy - and with spear neither is possible.

Edited Saturday at 05:35 PM by Zyreva.1078

[Marckan.9526]

11 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I don't like the Stealth gimmick. I'd rather have them scrap that and give spear a different fifth ability (or just make Spider's Web that fifth ability).

Spotted the PvE player...

 

@Zyreva.1078 I agree, reveal should only be applied when damage is done, or at the very least remove it from the leap skill.

Edited Saturday at 08:28 PM by Marckan.9526