Janthir Wilds Spear Beta Event Feedback: Necromancer

[Bale.3851]

28 minutes ago, Lynnie.7213 said:

Spear in pvp needs some change. Too short range, too slow animations(yeah its a necro but even for this standard is slow af and the dmg is not there to backup). Only good thing there is the "mobility" on skill 4 and the utility on skill 5 but again too slow to actual land if not playing against bots.

I can only agree. After playing some hours in PVP with spear and tinkering around with builds there is simply no reason to pick spear over existing weapons. Power Reaper u go axe, focus / warhorn/ sword, and GS. Much more area denial and set ups. As condi there is simply no reason at all to pick it.

In WVW the only build using spear could be cele harb or cele reaper. And only as a gap closer to dismount. Thats it. Really? Very poor design. While i like the interaction alot the skill them selfs are so lacking.

Throwing skill 4 and hitting a ranger pet or something else but not the target happened like 30% of the time. The combo is a good idea but the execution skillwise is hardcore lacking. Range is also a huge disadvantage like mentioned by many others. Also no active mitigation. And except for skill 2 everything feels cluncky and slow. Like when i was fighting a ranger friend it felt like he was driving a ferrari while im in a renault twingo. 

[Batalix.2873]

I revised my prior comment with more details. I think the reason why spear feels so underwhelming is because it is just another power chill weapon, despite looking very "toxic." It really wants to be a condi weapon with poison and fire on top of chill, and I think retooling its skills to be condi-based would really hit that "stalk and wear down" assassin vibe the weapon is going for.

I agree with the above commenters that, as of now, I wouldn't play spear. I LIKE the concept as hypothetical potential for a condi weapon, but if it's not a condi weapon that mixes Scourge's burning in with Necro's chill, I am just not super interested in it. If they do retool it, I hope they don't add torment and instead add poison to make it a more interesting soft control weapon for Necro/Scourge.

Edited June 28 by Batalix.2873

[Nero.7369]

Actually this weapon feels kinda good in wvw. The damage is a kinda low for a bursty weapon / only kicks in when below 50% but to get sth like cele catalyst below 50% is kinda harsh. But i think this will work out as a spiky power weapon with some damage numbers tweaks on Perforate and Isolate. Perforate and Extirpate a bit faster like 3/4sec.
4 -> (optional 3 / additonally potential 5) -> 2 -> Shroud -> Shroud Burst -> 4 -> 2 works really smooth.
The auto attack should have an ranged attack as well. Boon Rip and Boon Negation seems huge. Survival might be a thing tho, a bit of life steal is still better then nothing. 
The animation on Extirpate suggests that the radius is much smaller than 240. But it is a really big aoe of 240! Adjust the animation there please.

Edited Saturday at 01:21 PM by Nero.7369

[Rose.2593]

The range of skill 3 seems to short, as I'd think you would daze an enemy before you got in range, but thats the shorest ranged skill, and you don't seem to get enough time to use skill 2 all the time before the shards vanish. 

Also the conditions are really low duration, like 1.5 seconds or something

Edited June 29 by Rose.2593

[Xoidie.8965]

Would be nice if they added some damaging conditions (of any kind) to some of the spear skills to make it more hybrid. Right now it feels like greatsword 2.0, the skill sets are very similar in what they do.

I was thinking about something like torment on the AA and skill 5, and bleeding on Perforate; I think bleeding would suit Perforate very well thematically. Or maybe Soul shards could inflict some torment or whatever when they are spent? Idk.

Other than that my biggest gripes are with skill 3, I enjoy how quick it is to execute, but its range, completely single target nature, and very conditional effects leave much to be desired. I think it would be great if the skill at the very least had the same range as Perforate, but I'd personally also make it inflict fear instead of daze to make it have more synergy with traits. Fear on a melee weapon might not seem like the best idea, but since the skill can immobilize as well, i think it would be alright.

And lastly, i really do think that skill 4 cancels itself a bit too easily (at least from my experience) and it really kills the flow when it happens. It might be a skill issue tho lol. And I also think that it should either pierce or ignore any targets other than the intended one coz it's not nice that it can be bodyblocked so easily.

Either way, from my perspective the weapon is kinda fun, but could be much more interesting, more user-friendly and less greatsword-like.

[Maultrace.5761]

I feel like skill 5 should've created a runic field that completely disabled boons for 3 sec (not removed, simply turned them off). Don't know if that would make this skill absolutely broken, pvp guys to the rescue i suppose, but it's kinda meh in it's current state, just a boon removal basically, since boon block only works on stacks, and not the boon as a whole, which for some classes makes it completely useless. Aside from that, spear feels like a perfect weapon for bleeds thematecally, but if devs want another not-greatsword, then who am i to stop them..

Oh and cooldown reset thing should not be on teleport... that's all.

[Zom.2476]

I was pleasantly surprised by the feel of the spear, however I'd love for it to have more conditions. I feel that the animations lend themselves more to a condition or hybrid damage weapon. I could see it working especially well with a bleed Reaper build since the chill from Sinister Stab and Isolate triggers bleeding from Deathly Chill. Additional poison damage would pair well with the green animations of the spear and the Putrid Defense trait. As someone else mentioned, Perforate could apply a stack of poison per Soul Shard consumed, for example. The glowing green shards and the green jabbing animation of the attack just seem like it would poison the enemy. Maybe an additional condition could be added to either 3, 4 or 5 to round it out, such as confusion on Addle or some burning, torment or poison to Extirpation. But I liked the interplay of Perforate and Distress and the sustain Soul Shards provided. While I prefer the gap closer of swords, Isolate/Distress does the job and felt unique. Overall, I could see the spear being a fun and useful addition to the necromancer's arsenal.

[Aalter.2950]

Overall, I love this one. It's possibly my favorite of all the Spears. I have very few complaints - realistically I only have 1 to flag here:

Skill 4 is a bit unrealiable, it may need the projectile speed increased and the shadowstep reactivation window should be increased. Shadowsteps are notoriously finnicky due to the no path "feature". It could use a closer look and some more testing, as this skill is a very important part of the kit and having it fail even when the conditions are right (timed correctly, not avoided, etc.) is pretty frustrating.

Otherwise, excellent work with the Necro spear! ❤️

[Ryndor.2081]

Would have expected the spear to be condi or hybrid weapon. Like bleeding on auto attacks, poison on 2, where the number of soul shards consumed would determine the number of poison stacks. Maybe also some torment on 3. 

Maybe also generate life force on 2 depending on the number of soul shards consumed (1 or 1.5 percent per soul shard). 

Also either the soul shards should last longer or getting a soul shard should refresh the duration instead of each stack having its own duration. Or both. Not having the duration per stack also allows tracking them better.

Edited Saturday at 02:08 PM by Ryndor.2081

[quake.9023]

my gf likes necro more thn mesmer because this does it for her. its simple, does good dmg on 2, teleport on 4. cc on 3. its good and simple. 

2 is too narrow the target. 4 is too slow to use the teleport....feels sticky. 5 the attack too delay?

goes well with reaper power dmg

[Merion.2350]

Overall, solid weapon - just with a bit of a low range.

1, 2 and 4 are fine (although give 2 a bit more range to actually hit something 🙂 )

3 feel very awkward as i often plain dont see the animation myself togetherwith its low range making it rather... .eh

 

and 5.. 

5 has a windup of a very powerful skill like harbinger shroud 5.. with a strong effect.. but not nearly as strong as the windup would suggest - maybe increase its aoe effect or reduce its windup 🙂

[Apokriphos.7042]

WvW Review Only:

The new spear in has some visual appeal, and the interaction with the shroud is a refreshing change that could benefit other necromancer weapons. The concept behind the spear as a duelist weapon adds potential depth. However, my extensive testing in the guildhall, roaming, and zerg fights in WvW showed several significant issues that make it a weapon without a role.

The spear’s attack range of just 130 units is critically short, making it feel like trying to fence with a toothpick. This short-range forces necromancers into close combat without the benefit of blocks or evades, typically paired with such risky weapons. The spear’s low DPS, especially when compared to the power alternative (and honestly superior) greatsword, makes it ineffective in its intended niche. Skills 4 and 5 offer some utility, but in practice, the greatsword’s AoE boon corrupt and blind far outshine the spear’s abilities. In WvW skirmishes, I found that the spear’s fifth skill can be completely absorbed by three stacks of might, making it almost unnoticeable during combat.

Life force generation is another major concern. Without successfully landing Addle, the spear generates almost no life force, which is crucial for necromancer survivability and combat efficiency. Additionally, the fifth skill's three-boon debuff is impractical given the prevalence of multiple boon stacks in WvW. The spear also fails in 1v1 scenarios if the target evades the ranged attack, making the weapon nearly useless. Even when landing, the aftercast delay harms its usability.

Necromancers traditionally have a tanky playstyle with lower mobility but higher survivability through shroud. Even with cooldown reset on the 1 range skill post shroud, the spear lacks the reactive defenses and sustained offense needed to stay competitive in the current fast-paced meta. It doesn’t fit a specific niche and feels redundant compared to existing weapons.

To make the spear a viable option in WvW, several changes are necessary. First, increase the attack range to at least 600 units to allow necromancers to engage from a safer distance, if the plan is no blocks/evades/boons/stability. Make the weapon hybrid and add bleed or poison to give it a niche. Rework the fifth skill to effectively handle multiple boon stacks, providing real utility in combat. Alternatively, introduce a block or evade mechanic to significantly enhance necromancer survivability in melee.

As it is currently, it will not be a useful 1v1 weapon, nor a useful Necromancer selling point for the upcoming expansion.

Edited Saturday at 05:23 PM by Apokriphos.7042

[bruakumfd.4817]

I honestly love the animation on the fifth skill albeit I can definitely see why some people think this should be a condi weapon. (I don't see why not when you can attach bleeding to chill and play a Condi Reaper). That's not to say I have no issues with it. The only pain point I found was the Soul Shards.

They're supposed to build up power? Cool. How come they last 8-10 seconds at the most? And since you can't always have Perforate up, they get waster. 

Again, I like the spear so far. The Soul Shard mechanic is near impossible to use at this point so, I don't see why I shouldn't just grab a greatsword.

[KrHome.1920]

Played it for 10 minutes.

Shards are just bloating the weapon's mechanics. They are the active version of carapace (passive). I don't like both. They are just overcomplicating skills/traits aka bad design.

Spear 1, 2, 3 are just modifications of greatsword 1, 2, 3.

Spear 4 is just core shroud 2 tagged on a weapon. Super slow projectile. Sould be at least 50% faster. 3s pursuit duration is way too low. Should be at least 5, better 10 seconds.

Spear 5 is actually cool. Good impact, can be precasted, good telegraph for the target to react. All in all a very well designed skill.

After another 10 minutes of messing around I am pretty sure I will keep using sword/x + GS + a quickness source (which transforms GS into one of the best weapons in the game) for power necro.

[Zero.3871]

After testing it in wvw i like the spear design.

Positiv:

1. necro gets a new anti boon mechanic on 5th skill. since necro got a lot of nerfs too boonhate in the past, it feels good to get a weapon that is giving a new option on the table for countering this boonspam meta. very helpful and with good impact with its current numbers imo.

2. soul shards as life leech mechanic offer offensive and defensive power. if you hit your rotation with 6 soul shards i got massive dmg burst on my opponents while healing like 4-5k lifepoints with the 2nd spell (perforate). 

3. the spear design is build around perforate (2nd spell). this spell offers and strong offensive burst with multiple hits. so its not easy to counter it with just aegis or blind. therefore it has high probability to hit at least some of its dmg and effects.

4. reset mechaincs for 2nd and 4th spells offer high potential if you play clean rotations vs your opponents.

5. mobility: the chase mechanic via the 4th spell (isolate) is great and remembers me on core death shroud 2nd spell. it gives you very good options to pressure your opponents while teleporting in some spells like reaper ult

open potential:

1. the visiblity of soul shards for opponents is very low (just an icon in boonbar). maybe there is a visual effect needed, to show the effect and stacks more clear for the opponents. (for example: some dark green energy balls flying around you)

2. the 2nd spell (perforate) should be refreshed when hitting 4th spell( isolate) not just after reactivating and porting. that way you would get more flexibility in playing out different skill rotations

3.  the 5th skill is kinda slow, maybe reduce pre casttime a little

4. LF regen is a little low 

overall:

this spear is very strong in my tests (wvw) and offers very good sustain and dmg via soul shards mechanic ( i hope it will remain in its current state). the anti boon mechanic of 5th spell is strong but because of the slow skill cast not that ez to hit right now, because i often get blinded or interrupted while the long casttime. the weapon fits in the necro theme and playstyle and is a great addition to the class. cant complain about it. i really enjoyed playing it.

[felincyriac.5981]

feels really bad in pvp if your 4 doesnt connect, u r just poking the air at that point. A ranged/melee hybrid auto like ranger could be a good change to help with that.

Edited Saturday at 10:34 PM by felincyriac.5981

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

2 hours ago, Zero.3871 said:

the anti boon mechanic of 5th spell is strong.

Uuuhhh.  What?  It rarely has a practical effect even in a 1v1, since most skills provide more than 3 stacks of Might or Stab.

[Urgotsfangirl.2408]

WvW+PvP feedback:

1. Autos are medicore but fine.

2.  Skill 2 is fine. ( maybe wider cone )

3. Skill 3 need increased range. doesnt fit kits range at all. this skill dont work well in the combo.

4. Skill 4 its fine

5. Skill 5 maybe add some defensive tool in this like: projectle block for the duration or aegis on activation. the reason for this is missing skill 4 and get pressured by range attacks after swaping into this , you kinda stay helpless there and whole kite dont work.

 

also this weapon feels like updated version of greatsword in WvW and PvP would be cool if either one of the weapon gets new identy.

[felincyriac.5981]

10 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Uuuhhh.  What?  It rarely has a practical effect even in a 1v1, since most skills provide more than 3 stacks of Might or Stab.

needs some kind of cc, the usual fear would be nice.

If not maybe corrupt instead.

 

Currently, enemies don't have to burn their defensives, they can choose to tank it.

Edited Sunday at 08:46 AM by felincyriac.5981

[Wulfhearth.7962]

As i already said in the ranger thread, the weapons this batch (with a few exceptions) feel very "balanced". 

Which is great until you compare them to the powercrept, overloaded mess that is the other specializations/weapons and the current fast-paced state of the game. Comparing Necro Spear to their GS illustrates this fairly well. 

At this rate i feel like in order to make room and meaningful niches for the new weapons, ANet needs to take a look at existing weapons and redistribute things a bit: redefine weapons and their niches, strengths and weaknesses; reign in powercreep , maybe give older weapons more interesting mechanics too or make some of the stronger weapons more conditional as well (as in skills only CC/reset a cooldown if a specific condition is met) and apply current design principles to ALL existing weapons and traits. 

 

Edited Sunday at 08:27 AM by Wulfhearth.7962

[Bale.3851]

Just adding to my previous review after playing around some more hours in wvw with spear:

1. Medicore. Needs more range and something else like might/vuln or a dmg condi to be a pick over axe.

2. Good skill but still the same dmg as axe 2 with less range but aoe. Its ok i guess given the shard interaction but still not really good.

3. The worst skill of the whole set. A 1/4 baseline daze?? And after you met the rediclous condition of 4 shards u get a 1 1/2 daze and a snare plus some lifeforce. Compare pistol 3. Aoe 1 1/4 stun with no activation condition. Poison weakness and 900 range with nearly the same cd. Why for the love of good would you design it with a 4 shards activation condition. This makes the already hard to hit cc on a weapon that is in reality designed to be a counter to short range weapons even less likely to be of any use. Set it to 3 Shards and increase the range. So we can use skill 4 into 3 into 2 and make this an actual combo in pvp / wvw.

4. Good skill on paper but in reality hard to hit. Particularly in bigger fights. Increase the projectile speed by atleast 50% or make it a shadowstep / teleport.

5. Just one word. Cluncky. Again good on paper but so hard to hit with such a weak pay off. If u are this deep in with spear and use this skill u still get insta killed. No cc or dmg mitigation. Dont really know that to do with this ability. Even if u made the cast time instant this skill would still be medicore at best.

TL;DR: As is spear is a not even half baked assasin weapons with good desgin on paper but such poor execution that there is no reason to play it at all. Keep the interaction its the only good thing about this weapon but change the rest. As it is right now there is no reason to buy the expansion as a necro player. 

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

This is all from a pvp prospective:

To me Soul Shards seem barely impactful in helping to survive a melee confrontation, considering the dmg output of specs right now. 

Seems to me soul shards get little benefit from healing power

(PVP harbinger zerk amu, wurm runes, no blood magic: 0 healing power ->siphoning healing 576,  heretic amu, blood magic, wurm runes -> 650 healing power -> siphoning healing 674, the healing increase at low health is ok but risky, also why the siphoning damage has a negative sign in front of it? (-689 siphoning dmg on zerk, -681 on heretic) this was all read from damage log on chat, I should be able to see the tooltip for "Soul Shards" on the autoattack since it generates them

"Perforate" dmg is okish but the ability to reset it via "Distress" skill 4, has to be looked at while deciding if improve dmg it or not. Please add lifeforce generation

Autos seems a bit sluggish in combat maybe look at aftercasts and shave a 1/4s cast time on first attack to make it more usable, please add life force on first and second attack of the chain

"Extirpate" skill 5 seems way to slow for what it actually does, the visual tell is ok. Please add lifeforce generation

I highly enjoyed the cd reset interaction with shroud, it's really fun to chain good combos. That for sure is a great aspect of the weapon.

"Isolate" skill 4 seems too slow to reach target, speed up projectile at 1200 range takes way to long to hit

"Distress" skill 4 2nd activation might benefit from a blind

"Addle" skill 3 should immobilize by default and not only if you have shards at max, at least 1s to make so you can land "Perforate". And increase the range to 300 to make it couple well with perforate. (it's a spear not a dagger 130 range is kinda sad)

Having fury or fear on the spear might also help a bit more

To sum it up, I like the concept and feeling via cd resets, it is a very risky weapon on scourge and harbinger, while pretty safe on reaper, it just needs fine tuning.

Please make a skin like an evil black partizan with green blood dripping ❤️

Edited Sunday at 03:56 PM by NecroSummonsMors.7816
clarity and typing errors

[Asorik.9283]

Here is my feedback after about 12 hours of testing, mostly in WvW (roaming) and sPVP.

Overall the spear skills feel very good when you play them (except for the AA). It seems like a weapon that is more designed to be used with the harbringer, I've had the feeling while playing that it fits better than with the reaper.

The fact that Distress (skill 4 use 2) allows you to pre-caste before teleporting fits perfectly with the other 3 skills. However where I have benefited the most from this has been precastigating Perforate (skill 2). People have learned very quickly that if they are hit with Isolate (4) you will teleport to them, so if they see you precast Extirpate (5) they will use some defensive (block, evade, blind...).

You can pre-cast Addle and stun right at the moment of teleport, but the enemy may have stab and you'll almost never have the three shard hold needed to immobilise so you'll rarely stop him long enough to be able to cast Perforate completely on a non-cc enemy.

However, where I've had the best results is pre-casting Perforate, but there's a problem here as while you're casting Perforate the skill reset thanks to Distress has no effect, so you lose a reset.

I will now go skill by skill stating problems and possible solutions.

- Soul Shards
  - Damage and life steal are fine in both modes.
  - Should be much easier to stack, it's impossible to chain Perforate twice with 6 shards using the reset mechanic.
  - Should be retained with weapon change or they will be spent somehow (similar to revenant's spear)
  
- Autoattack
  - Very slow and low damage. Should be much faster but with the same damage. Autoattack should only serve as a fill for soul shards. Damage is in skill 2.

- Perforate (Skill 2)
  - Here there is a difference between the 2 modes. In PVP I see a good balance between base damage and shard damage. In WVW on the other hand the base damage of the ability is too low for an environment where there is a lot more toughness.

- Addle (Skill 3)
 - I like the idea that it has a better effect if you interrupt an ability, but the soulshards threshold is too high to apply immobilize.
 - The range is too short, too easy to fail to be an important ability.

- Isolate (Skill 4 first use)
 - The spear track is incredibly good, rare is the situation where it doesn't hit because of the terrain.
 - This skill is the key of the spear set, if enemy evaded this skill, you are completely unprotected. This skill should have a reduced cd if you don't reactivate it, allowing you to fail. Similar mechanics to Dark Path on core shroud. 
 - If the cd is reduced. The chill and vulnerability would also be removed from Isolate and moved to Distress. We want them to be chilled and vulnerabled when we are close and not at the beginning.
 - When you land this skill should reset Perforate and not the second use. That allow you to always precast Perforate before teleport. 
 
- Distress (Skill 4 second use)
 - I would increase the shard gain regardless of whether the enemy is isolated or not. 
 - I would add the conditions removed on Isolate.
 - I would add a boon (fury?) if you have more than x shards at the time of use. And some negative condition if the enemy is isolated. immov, weakness, slow....
 - If you use this ability the CD of isolate increases x sec. like Dark Path + Dark Pursuit skills on core. 
 
- Extirpate (Skill 5)
 - It's very easy to dodge, the radius should be a bit bigger.
 - The boon you get should be different, one stack of might feels very poor. Stab maybe?
 - In sPvP. I would change remove to corrupt boons. In WvW I would leave remove because blobs will abuse it.
 - I would add a block effect while casting, also increasing its cast time to 1.5 sec. This way you can jump in the middle of the fight and not die instantly while setting up your combo.
 - If you add the block you would still need to increase the cd as well so it wouldn't be too op. 

[Nimon.7840]

I do have a lot of thoughts. It's all from a wvw and pve perspective.

First of all:
What is this weapon intended to do?
Is it a pve weapon? is it a pvp weapon? i can't really identify it.

PVE:
the dmg is solid in pve, could maybe use a bit of uptuning. but the lifeforce generation is simply on the wrong skill(s). powerreaper as well as powerharbinger both have a very solid rotation. but autoattack doesn't really fit in this rotation. and then you only have skill 3 which provides nowhere near enough lifeforce, to sustain your rotation with liveforce.
Also for pve, it's horrible, that the number 3 skill can interrupt every single skill on your bar. since it seems to have priority.
the health sustain is definetly strong. i went solo for icebrood construct in the shiverpeaks pass strike. together with dagger i could easily sustain myself.
On the kitty golem in the test area: (I played berserker/assassin, without food or infusions.) if the enemy was below 50% health the perforate (2) was doing 6x3047 soulshard dmg, + 7x 4090 from crits. the only complaint here is, that the number just doesn't look big. even though it's doing 56k dmg.
It's cool but doesn't work as replacement for GS, only to replace the second weapon set.

WvW:

In wvw i had a lot of fun at first, when i hit pve mobs trying out combos.
as soon as i engaged in real fights, i was immensly disappointed. The dmg was rather low, even on a full glass cannon build and on a more defensive build the dmg was even more disappointing, especially above 50% enemy health. also it felt like i never probably hit enemies with the perforate, as soon as they started moving sideways.
also it felt like you could never actually go in with the isolate, if you didn't have either spectral walk or wurm up to immediatly port out again.
if you didn't either hit real hard, so people had to focus on defense or ported out immediatly, you would just get stunlocked in melee range.
Overall this might be a good weapon. but currently there is just no good power necro wvw/pvp build (wrote with naru about that in his stream and we both agree).
The biggest problem is necros sustain and not having a good source of stability. 
if those problems don't get fixed. the weapon will be dead on arrival, unless the dmg gets omega buffed to be able to oneshot people.
sustain that's tied to hitting the enemy is usually inferior to sustain that "just happens"/ doesn't have a hit condition.

Very strange as well: why does the 5 skill give 1 might per target hit, but the 4 skill gives benefits on isolated targets? shouldn't the 5 give some bonus as well when only hitting one target? for example gain 1 might per enemy struck, if you only hit one enemy gain fury instead or something like that? cause fury is very hard to get on power necro. either you take curses - a condi traitline, or dread in spite, but spear doesn't have a fear, or you play harbinger.

PS: and i don't want to see another blighters boon buff. as long as it competes with reapers onslaught, it will never be taken on any power build.

Edited Tuesday at 06:43 PM by Nimon.7840

[Matt H.6142]

Definitely the highest dps spear of the bunch.  Felt good to me, and worked so well, I didn't feel any learning curve, and quickly moved on to the other professions.