WvW restructuring, negative consequences

[Chaba.5410]

3 hours ago, reddie.5861 said:

do u really believe that? did u really think anet put work in this system? or they just take all the tagged guilds smash them in big shuffle pot and randomly slap them on a server every 4 weeks or so?
this system is worse then old system. but hey at least people like me get free transfer whenever we end up in server we dont like 😄

 

It doesn't really matter what I believe about team formation.  Saying 500 man guilds are a system of bandwagoning didn't match what is typically known of WvW bandwagoning.  Now if we get a 500 man guild of new players suddenly appearing on teams like Hall of Judgement or Mosswood after team formation, then I'd agree there is some bandwagoning going on under some other mechanism than alliances.

But if you believe that Anet uses no metrics for team formation, go ahead and post up why you think that and the supporting evidence for your reasoning.

Edited August 14 by Chaba.5410

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 8/14/2024 at 12:14 AM, cajalbelvue.5319 said:

Playhours is a useless metric to create teams by.

Useless? One dimensional I think is a better term, which is why its not the only one that has been stated as being used.

Play hours being a factor does makes sense as one of them though. In an ideal world, everyone one would be a one to one in number of players and time they might play and when they might play. This is a game though. Which means that won't be a thing unless you want them to move to a reservation system where you have to lockdown when, where and how long you will be playing in the next 4 weeks of time. Due to the randomness of players you need factors like average play time to try and weigh and measure them in order to perform any type of sorting. 

Edited August 16 by TheGrimm.5624
empty lines

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 8/9/2024 at 3:01 PM, Warhawk.6083 said:

If i'm not on for a specific time with 1 of my 5 Guild slots selected correctly then I can't play with my friends for a month. People have real life you cant always be on for restructuring!!!!!

Welcome to Forums Wars 2!

It sounds like you don't have time for 24hour banking either. So you weren't on for 6 weeks in the first sort to link up for the second sort? And then you can't be on during the current 4 weeks to mark your guild? You know its a one time setting pretty much, yes?

On 8/9/2024 at 3:01 PM, Warhawk.6083 said:

Now instead of Monetizing WvW more, investing in GvG, and adapting like shouldve been done from the start, were stuck with a change that benefits "NOBODY".

Server pride player. I transferred once in a decade. Didn't ask for the WR system either. But nobody? It's been a topic since 2014, so the nobody, is a bit over reaching, and that is understating it.

On 8/9/2024 at 3:01 PM, Warhawk.6083 said:

I USE TO PAY YOU $20 FOR A TRANSFER AND I STILL WILL GLADLY but I cant because of a system nobody even ask for!!!!

Transfers is one of the biggest impacts that created the WR issue to start with. So gratz! You created part of the issue. Why you spent really money versus just converting gold to gems like everyone else, not sure there.

On 8/9/2024 at 3:01 PM, Warhawk.6083 said:

You wanna make changes make WvW more competitive, Reward top guilds in servers for there monthly or matchup PPT contribution, and MAKE GVG GREAT AGAIN F***!!!!!

Again, this game mode will never be competitive. Its a 3 sided 24x7 365 day game mode. I agree more reasons to win, but that again is not the same as competitive. You would better be served by sPvP if you really want a competitive game mode. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

 

On 8/14/2024 at 12:14 AM, cajalbelvue.5319 said:

1) Removed server discords and all the information those had to facilitate playing wvw.

That happened over time before as guilds transferred around bringing in new discords, tag discords, people not wanting to follow server discord rules. This isn't any different.

On 8/14/2024 at 12:14 AM, cajalbelvue.5319 said:

2) Removed server transfers so players can't choose a server to play on.

Bandwagons has been the biggest issue in people asking for the WR. Transfers may have not been the biggest culprit in losing servers, but it's up there in the list.

On 8/14/2024 at 12:14 AM, cajalbelvue.5319 said:

3) Incentivized exclusivity with hidden alliances, private/invisible squads, and private discords.

This was a thing before the WR. Is its getting worse? That might be a better point. 

On 8/14/2024 at 12:14 AM, cajalbelvue.5319 said:

4) Incentivized 30+ versus 1 w-keying fights and avoiding other 30+ groups on other maps

That's not really new.

On 8/14/2024 at 12:14 AM, cajalbelvue.5319 said:

5) Created a bandwagon system of 500 strangers forming a alliance (Dunbars Number hello?)

I admit I have yet to see a community guild that says, we need more strangers, not sure where you were going here.

On 8/14/2024 at 12:14 AM, cajalbelvue.5319 said:

6) Uses arbitrary metrics like playhours to balance

So you want them to match a guild up that has 200 members with 200 hours of playtime a week versus another 200 member guild that has 4000 hours of play time a week? And you expect good matches from that? 

[Warhawk.6083]

40 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Welcome to Forums Wars 2!

It sounds like you don't have time for 24hour banking either. So you weren't on for 6 weeks in the first sort to link up for the second sort? And then you can't be on during the current 4 weeks to mark your guild? You know its a one time setting pretty much, yes?

Server pride player. I transferred once in a decade. Didn't ask for the WR system either. But nobody? It's been a topic since 2014, so the nobody, is a bit over reaching, and that is understating it.

Transfers is one of the biggest impacts that created the WR issue to start with. So gratz! You created part of the issue. Why you spent really money versus just converting gold to gems like everyone else, not sure there.

Again, this game mode will never be competitive. Its a 3 sided 24x7 365 day game mode. I agree more reasons to win, but that again is not the same as competitive. You would better be served by sPvP if you really want a competitive game mode. 

The fact you projected your opinion to every one of post is actually hilarious! Obviously a narcissist and I didn't ask LOL. To say that WvW "will" never be competitive is redundant to what I said....  Also if you wanna fix the transfer "problem" that was supposedly a thing then all you got to do is lower the server cap and restructure a portion of the population. Not the entire population monthly like wtf are we doing whoever did voice their opinion for this is retarted, so if they did ask since 2014 im worried 😂.

Edited August 16 by Warhawk.6083

[TheGrimm.5624]

14 minutes ago, Warhawk.6083 said:

The fact you projected your opinion to every one of post is actually hilarious! Obviously a narcissist and I didn't ask LOL. To say that WvW "will" never be competitive is redundant to what I said....  Also if you wanna fix the transfer "problem" that was supposedly a thing then all you got to do is lower the server cap and restructure a portion of the population. Not the entire population monthly like wtf are we doing whoever did voice their opinion for this is retarted, so if they did ask since 2014 im worried 😂.

The history is out there, take a look. I can even kickstart it for you.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Restructuring

The forum posts go back further than that even.

Your welcome!

 

[Custodio.6134]

3 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

The forum posts go back further than that even.

exactly. The whole discussion, brainstorming, basically the whole foundation for World Restructuring was already a thing in the old forums ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/ ) which were closed on 2017/09/12, archived and replaced with the current forum we´re using since then. 

for example: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Server-Linking-Discussion 

this is one of the earliest threads where discussion about alliances (at this time in reference to GW1-alliances) started (at ~September 2016), about 5 months after world linking (beta) was first announced (April 2016)

the entire wvw-playerbase has discussed this almost constantly since then, waited for it, and now ppl are complaining that they get ALMOST the exact same thing that has been discussed for over half a decade. (the only thing we didn´t get is an actual alliance-UI, for which we got a 6th guild-slot as substitute)

Edited August 16 by Custodio.6134

[Hesione.9412]

On 8/15/2024 at 5:39 AM, Cuks.8241 said:

Are you talking from experience?

I can only talk about our alliance. Anyone can join the alliance guild. We have 2 (soon to be 3) more hardcore guilds and 1 more very casual guild.

 

This is what I and others have been complaining about: fight guild stacking in alliances. Instead of fighting each other, and spreading around the fight guilds, you band together and fight roamers etc.

[Cuks.8241]

9 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

This is what I and others have been complaining about: fight guild stacking in alliances. Instead of fighting each other, and spreading around the fight guilds, you band together and fight roamers etc.

This is not stacking. This is ensuring that members have someone to play with. Most guilds (based on the small sample of guild I've played with) have 1 or 2 dedicated commanders that are actually able to command a gvg fight. It's very taxing on those comms. It's not only the commanding itself, it's also the squad organisation and guild organisation. Most of the comms I've played with actually burn themselves over time. Also physically because straight up constant talking during a 2h raid is taxing on voice and so on. 

Having 2 or 3 guilds ensures that players have more raid time. It's the same as servers, you had more guilds per server. And casual commanders for off hours and some ppt for those that play that.

No fight guild really fight roamers (unless they roam on off hours) or at least likes it much. Most of my playtime is fighting other guilds. And fights are often arranged. It's a small world, players know each other and arrange when a certain enemy guild will be on which border (or you can just check on the friend list) so they meet. But if there is no content, yeah you tag a garry and hope many bags come that are able to do something or quit for the night.

 

[Mabi black.1824]

16 hours ago, Custodio.6134 said:

exactly. The whole discussion, brainstorming, basically the whole foundation for World Restructuring was already a thing in the old forums

You may have been talking about this kind of change for 20 years, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a stupid change for some players. I mean, time doesn't make it better or it doesn't make it more or less legitimate. I joined this forum 3 years ago when I saw the first beta. I had no idea that you had already been talking about this for 7 years before I arrived. and I don't even care. What interests me is to express my opinions on all this. Like any other player who has participated in this game with reference to their server, because this mode has been designed with reference to the server, to the comparison between servers, with a point system and a server ranking. now this change, which it is well to call by an appropriate term; This regression shifts the focus from the server to the guild, and you're effectively cutting out a bunch of players, and beyond that I still maintain that this is a half-finished job. Because you make the server useless while all the design of WVW still revolves around the server.

[Mabi black.1824]

6 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

But if there is no content, yeah you tag a garry and hope many bags come that are able to do something or quit for the night.

I don't know what you've seen in the last 2 months. But in my opinion WR is the best way to create the conditions you wrote and mentioned. When you attack my Garry I don't perceive it remotely as my Garry. so take it. For that kind of gamer like me, this simply translates into many fewer hours of gameplay. because I don't feel involved anymore. As a result, it results in a lot less content for you too. It should be simple to understand.

[Mabi black.1824]

On 8/15/2024 at 1:20 AM, Chaba.5410 said:

It doesn't really matter what I believe about team formation.  Saying 500 man guilds are a system of bandwagoning didn't match what is typically known of WvW bandwagoning.  Now

WR and all the betas we've had aren't there by accident. I am convinced that Anet gave us plenty of time to digest that WR was coming and players and guilds can organize. So you have a vague idea of what 500 extremely active players are organizing and looking for each other and grouping together? do you know that 70 are enough to fill a map? How many extremely active players do you need to call it a 'bandwagon'?

[Dantana.8510]

It's been several weeks now and it is getting worse by the day. From the people I see playing, it is obvious this project has failed and the old system should be reinstalled. Playing is no fun when your friends are scattered across different servers. Defending your realm with your friends is dead. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

You may have been talking about this kind of change for 20 years, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a stupid change for some players.

Disliking and denial that its been a topic are two different things my friend. I agree, people may not be aware of how long this topic has been out there in various forms. I agree I miss my server, I also agree there is still much to do. But it is the road we are on. Me, I am still on vacation seeing the sites for now and what it all looks like from various re-sorts. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

14 minutes ago, Dantana.8510 said:

Playing is no fun when your friends are scattered across different servers. Defending your realm with your friends is dead. 

Agree but this is where the forums fracture a bit. You have players that were already more guild orientated and players that were more server orientated that may have been in a guild or not. That's what I was calling pub style. Being able to log in and fight with players you see daily. You might banter in chat or emote or just outright cover their back. That's been moved to community guilds. So best bet is if that is more your style check your friends list and see if one was formed and link up. Or look for a new one as you move through the sorts. They are out there. 

On the defending side, I understand. Its a matter of if you want to find a replacement there, or do as Anet is interested in and just attack more until you find your own in balance in defending. 

Good hunting!

[Warhawk.6083]

On 8/17/2024 at 11:50 AM, Dantana.8510 said:

It's been several weeks now and it is getting worse by the day. From the people I see playing, it is obvious this project has failed and the old system should be reinstalled. Playing is no fun when your friends are scattered across different servers. Defending your realm with your friends is dead. 

It's the fall of all great games. Innovation. They'll never revert, claim they know because of the numbers, and now were on a constant decline till doom. The COD MW2 mod that was top selling on steam is a great example. Give me new maps, classes, and skill mechanics, but why change the community and what makes the game nostalgic. 

[Dawdler.8521]

21 hours ago, Warhawk.6083 said:

The COD MW2 mod that was top selling on steam is a great example. Give me new maps, classes, and skill mechanics, but why change the community and what makes the game nostalgic. 

Isn’t MW2 the 6th game in the series? Pretty sure the community has changed quite a lot. Last I played a COD game it was about WW2.

[Warhawk.6083]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Isn’t MW2 the 6th game in the series? Pretty sure the community has changed quite a lot. Last I played a COD game it was about WW2.

IYKYK I'm sorry. You're gonna have to do a little research. Literally just google cod mw2 mod on steam.

[pesadelo.1704]

Having just returned from pre alliances WvW , to the new alliances mode . I hate the new system  my Server was pretty average but it had identity I knew what time some commanders were doing their stuff and when I could just fool around roaming .

This past 2 weeks it has been "weird" to say the least , our alliance is being trampled , and when I say being trampled is like we cant even with a 40 man squad can take SM in our prime , full 50 man teams with almost 24H coverage .

I cant even guerrila these teams because I get less points in off hours (I work in shifts ) , then people from my alliance start to log from WvW , and do other stuff ..

If this systeam was to promote a more healthy WvW I am not seeing it.

[One more for the road.8950]

18 minutes ago, pesadelo.1704 said:

Having just returned from pre alliances WvW , to the new alliances mode . I hate the new system  my Server was pretty average but it had identity I knew what time some commanders were doing their stuff and when I could just fool around roaming .

This past 2 weeks it has been "weird" to say the least , our alliance is being trampled , and when I say being trampled is like we cant even with a 40 man squad can take SM in our prime , full 50 man teams with almost 24H coverage .

I cant even guerrila these teams because I get less points in off hours (I work in shifts ) , then people from my alliance start to log from WvW , and do other stuff ..

If this systeam was to promote a more healthy WvW I am not seeing it.

Guerilla all you want, there is no difference in off hours points.

[Mabi black.1824]

On 9/10/2024 at 6:49 PM, One more for the road.8950 said:

Guerilla all you want, there is no difference in off hours points.

Yes, that's right, for the new point system you have to play only in the prime time slot (clockwork score), after which you will be considered a ''different gender'' player. Luckily we made sure that no one cares about scoring anymore.

[StompBeefcake.8945]

,

Edited October 4 by StompBeefcake.8945
my quote disappeared.

[StompBeefcake.8945]

On 8/1/2024 at 6:43 PM, Mister.2315 said:

Since the final beta restructuring it has been horrible to continue in the world, you have not achieved anything that was expected.
1.- You have managed to separate communities, so to join again you have to create a community guild to meet again.
2.- total imbalance in the different servers according to the time slots.

The best thing would be to return to the previous mvm situation, removing t5, so the population of each mvm server would increase to for each server. It is preferable to queue than to be alone playing.

I think that the population of world versus world has decreased by what is mentioned in the game... you can verify that I am right.
If it weren't for the friends I have in gw2 I would have left the game, it hasn't been fun for me lately.

(Google translator)

I think the font could be a little bigger

[Kinzu.5820]

There's clearly a huge want for something to feel commited to and community, identity thereof, are very much important. I agree but keep in-mind this system is meant to urge you to invest in a guild rather than a server. Unfortunately, the servers existed and there are ties to enjoyable communes, with their commanders and regulars, that will be disrupted by this new experiment.

Something the playerbase can attempt to cope with is finding new groups to mingle with whilst also providing dynamic to their own circles to make sure that play is optimal and inviting for people being shuffled.

Having your server split apart will happen, it's to prevent the mega-winner problem and transfer politics. Funneling your entire server community into one big guild is not warranted by the system and it's a good thing that doesn't work when having a goal of reducing server-identity to moreso push forth guild identity. It's up to players to find their fit, now.  It's unfortunate that a comprimise of a system to avoid 'server politics' results in 'guild politics' but this beta is inherently pro-guild coordination.

Create some new pacts with eachother, explore while this system is adjusted. You're wrong if you're not trying - You won't provide any analytics for the system to fix it's bad adjustments in sorting. It's okay to lose, it's not fun but throwing your hands up and not trying if it's all fair game is just as silly as cheating to force your wins. Reorganization requires reorganization. Don't fight it too hard, try something new. It's almost like every other game's server to commitment scheme stereotypes the reaction of server identity dissolution, it's a comfy thing a lot of people can be lazy with - try to adapt and the system might function in your favor to place you where you're most happy, faster. It's online right now - You're not going to completely cancel it just yet.

Edited October 6 by Kinzu.5820

[Erathiel.9318]

5 hours ago, Kinzu.5820 said:

There's clearly a huge want for something to feel commited to and community, identity thereof, are very much important. I agree but keep in-mind this system is meant to urge you to invest in a guild rather than a server. Unfortunately, the servers existed and there are ties to enjoyable communes, with their commanders and regulars, that will be disrupted by this new experiment.

Something the playerbase can attempt to cope with is finding new groups to mingle with whilst also providing dynamic to their own circles to make sure that play is optimal and inviting for people being shuffled.

Having your server split apart will happen, it's to prevent the mega-winner problem and transfer politics. Funneling your entire server community into one big guild is not warranted by the system and it's a good thing that doesn't work when having a goal of reducing server-identity to moreso push forth guild identity. It's up to players to find their fit, now.  It's unfortunate that a comprimise of a system to avoid 'server politics' results in 'guild politics' but this beta is inherently pro-guild coordination.

Create some new pacts with eachother, explore while this system is adjusted. You're wrong if you're not trying - You won't provide any analytics for the system to fix it's bad adjustments in sorting. It's okay to lose, it's not fun but throwing your hands up and not trying if it's all fair game is just as silly as cheating to force your wins. Reorganization requires reorganization. Don't fight it too hard, try something new. It's almost like every other game's server to commitment scheme stereotypes the reaction of server identity dissolution, it's a comfy thing a lot of people can be lazy with - try to adapt and the system might function in your favor to place you where you're most happy, faster. It's online right now - You're not going to completely cancel it just yet.

Not to burst your balloon but roamers for example are left out of this equation altogether now that the WR system as you say, centralize communities around guilds and in turn on a small number of people on the top of this food chain who may decide who gets in and who doesn't instead of servers, who in fact did include roamers and newer players in said equation, since roamers were bound to the server of their choice to begin with. You can't force people to join guilds if they don't want to, yet are they to be punished for it by being tossed around to fill the empty gaps in random teams instead?

 

There are far more factors that I haven't mentioned but let's keep it to roamers for now, and before one decides to devalue roamers, some do not simply roam about but in fact serve as scouts, camp cappers and more to easen the burden on larger pug/guild squads.