neerdowell.8692 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Vindicator dodge needs to be reworked. In a game mode like PvP a dodge can not hit 6-7k Dps. 4 12 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arazoth.7290 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Reaiz.2780 said: Vindicator dodge needs to be reworked. In a game mode like PvP a dodge can not hit 6-7k Dps. lmao, agreed that it's stupid, I play rev myself. But I want a screenshot of these 6-7k hits on dodge you speak of 😂. In most cases it's 4 k and in very lucky situations 5k Edited July 10 by arazoth.7290 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 13 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said: lmao, agreed that it's stupid, I play rev myself. But I want a screenshot of these 6-7k hits on dodge you speak of 😂. In most cases it's 4 k and in very lucky situations 5k Man I remember when Warrior was doing 3k reckless dodge and people were complaining so much it got nerfed, the funniest bit is the most vocal about it were Mirage mains. The stupider thing is that Anet tried the dodge bot spec like 3 times before and it is always kitten and they had to nerf it for the obvious reason that only good counterplay going against it is bunkering up and pooping pulsing AOES on your feet which is also kitten to deal with by everything else. The problem is that they never add obvious counterplay to that kitten or if it has one, it is easily circumventable. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neerdowell.8692 Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 Dodge needs to be just a dodge. Not a terrorizing mechanic. On any spec/class dodge needs to be just a dodge thats all. Vindi dodge makes more than %80 of skills in pvp currently. It does same amount of damage as backstab or ranger maul. It makes zero sense. Vindis kill people by only dodging on long term. https://hizliresim.com/9273pq2 look my death breakdown from a duel with DEMOLISHER AMULET on me. I have dodged every single main skill yet i ve died to dodges. REWORK, NOW. 3 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buran.3796 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 3 hours ago, Reaiz.2780 said: Vindicator dodge needs to be reworked. In a game mode like PvP a dodge can not hit 6-7k Dps. You shouldn't be able to burst without visual and acoustic calls, so lets remove stealth... 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I think dodge doing damage works okay when it's like the current Reckless Dodge, and it's a small hit that can eat a blind or an aegis or something. There's almost no situations in which you offensively dodge solely for the damage with it, it's just a little bonus to a build running it. Other than that every spec with a modified dodge has been a nightmare for balance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arazoth.7290 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 47 minutes ago, Reaiz.2780 said: Vindi dodge makes more than %80 of skills in pvp currently. https://hizliresim.com/9273pq2 From the skills that are listed there I did the math for you =] 42,5%. But I am mostly wondered why the dodge damage is ontop of the list, it's for me mostly in the middle if I check mine. I understand it's annoying, but this is making a mosquito an elephant 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 3 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said: I think dodge doing damage works okay when it's like the current Reckless Dodge, and it's a small hit that can eat a blind or an aegis or something. There's almost no situations in which you offensively dodge solely for the damage with it, it's just a little bonus to a build running it. Other than that every spec with a modified dodge has been a nightmare for balance. That's how vindi is currently, the dodge is lower dps than using normal weapon skills though the damage modifiers on death drop and leviathan strength require a dodge every so often to maintain. Dev/Invo vindi is basically the pve dps build with like 3 low impact traits swapped, everything hits hard on it, but it dies fast if you hit time your stuff well and land it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 4 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said: That's how vindi is currently 2.67 coefficient vs 0.5. Death Drop does massive damage comparatively, without including the modifiers it enables. Think it's kinda weird to try and defend Vindi considering it's been overperforming now for like 2 years. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, arazoth.7290 said: In most cases it's 4 k and in very lucky situations 5k Decapitate and eviscerate hit for 4.5 to 5k on a glass build. Hammer autos do 2.4k and most buttons on gs do 4k+ Edited July 10 by Azure The Heartless.3261 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said: 2.67 coefficient vs 0.5. Death Drop does massive damage comparatively, without including the modifiers it enables. Think it's kinda weird to try and defend Vindi considering it's been overperforming now for like 2 years. The 2.67 coefficient is very misleading, it has a tiny weapon strength, seemingly much smaller than even normal utility skills as evidenced by the skill rarely hitting much more than 4k damage while all of the other greatsword skills with half the power coefficient can hit 6-8k with similar cast times. Hell, the screen shot for evidence of excessive dodge damage still has it hitting for less than 3k per dodge on average. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 4 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: Decapitate and eviscerate hit bunkers with protection for 4.5 to 5k on a glass build. Hammer autos do 2.4k and most buttons on gs do 4k+ Fixed, I've been hit by 10k+ decapitates before. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said: The 2.67 coefficient is very misleading, it has a tiny weapon strength Correct. Now do Reckless Impact. Because it's the same lol In fact, MOST utilities and traits and non-weapon skills are the same. Edited July 10 by Shagie.7612 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Just now, Shagie.7612 said: Correct. Now do Reckless Impact. Because it's the same lol Ok, reckless impact is an adept minor trait, where is death drop is a elite spec mechanic boosted by the grandmaster trait, no kitten death drop does more damage. The more comparable comparison would be death drop vs. Fullcounter + magebane tether, and I don't think death drop is stronger than both of those combined. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Just now, ArthurDent.9538 said: Ok, reckless impact is an adept minor trait, where is death drop is a elite spec mechanic boosted by the grandmaster trait, no kitten death drop does more damage. Right, but the entire argument I was making is that I don't think dodges should ever be doing that much damage. That, if they exist within a traitline, they should all be similar to Reckless Impact levels. Death Drop is not anywhere near that level. That's the whole point. I think it's bad spec design. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 5 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said: Right, but the entire argument I was making is that I don't think dodges should ever be doing that much damage. That, if they exist within a traitline, they should all be similar to Reckless Impact levels. Death Drop is not anywhere near that level. That's the whole point. I think it's bad spec design. I disagree, I think different builds should leverage various game mechanics differently to promote actual gameplay variety as long as there is reasonable play and counterplay to said mechanics. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sereath.1428 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) On 7/10/2024 at 4:02 PM, Shagie.7612 said: That's the whole point. I think it's bad spec design. Alright. Still better than Renegade, especially Kalla. Why do you think it only lasted about a year? And Kalla even less. There's no way anyone actually wants that aoe vomit spam to be S or even A tier, same for Condi Herald. Low Floor, High Ceiling. The easiest time Revenant has ever been (Renegade and Condi Herald). And same with other specs such as Scourge. Also, stop mixing up the game getting "easier" after mastering something with a High Floor and Ceiling. I mean, yeah? it is much easier to go to war with a sword or a bow, and to learn them, than with a stick or a rock. With that mentality nothing should be better than core, actually, nothing should be better than a core warrior. If anything, that kind of kitten has an awfully low amount of skills for an MMO. This is neither a moba nor a fighting game. Anyway, Vindicator could definitely be better designed, the focus should be more on switching between Alliance stances rather than camping/saving them for the right moment. I really think that the initial design was a lot better with the flips, unfortunately that was too difficult for most players, especially PvE ones. And it has been already said multiple times, nerf Death Drop already. The other two dodges in contrast are garbage but they might actually be ok if Death Drop wasnt doing constant 3k's (OP cant do math). And it's for sure at least half the damage power budget of Vindicator. Save the big damage role for Power Herald. Rework the dodges to be full utility, make Death Drop mark your target for bonus damage on Spear use, Imperial Impact to replenish 1 energy for every target hit, etc, whatever. Edited July 11 by Sereath.1428 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Sereath.1428 said: Still better than Renegade, especially Kalla. Why do you think it only lasted about a year? And Kalla even less. wew lad, a little bitter someone dared call your spec's biggest mechanic dumb? lol 1 hour ago, Sereath.1428 said: Also, stop mixing up the game getting "easier" after mastering something with a High Floor. No idea where you got that out of "I don't think specs having significant damage on their dodges is good for pvp" but okay Dodge already gets you something super valuable and it's a baseline feature of literally every single class in the game, it's okay for it to be a consistent block of power that everything has access to. The Alliance has three sets of utilities, that's already an elite specialization mechanic in and of itself. The automatic flips were more interesting (or more accurately had more potential to be dynamic gameplay) than what it is now imo, but regardless, even WITHOUT a modified dodge it already has more to it than both Herald's Facet of Nature and Renegade's Citadel Orders. 1 hour ago, Sereath.1428 said: And it has been already said multiple times, nerf Death Drop already. Y...Yeah? That's what I said?? 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekent.3652 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Vindicator is just a stronger Strength Warrior, there's a reason on why they hard nerfed the DMG on dodge from Strength Warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 14 hours ago, Reaiz.2780 said: 6-7k Dps DPS = Damage per second. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingSwipe.3084 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 On 7/10/2024 at 11:48 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: Decapitate and eviscerate hit for 4.5 to 5k on a glass build. Hammer autos do 2.4k and most buttons on gs do 4k+ Huh? I can get 10k crits with that. Some hoops required but its not abnormal. In all fairness its on a glass signet meme build thats usually my main for Memeflame builds. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernova Starr.2069 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 (edited) Dodge shouldn't grant stealth/invul either, but here we are i guess Edited July 12 by Supernova Starr.2069 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 On 7/10/2024 at 5:55 PM, ArthurDent.9538 said: Fixed, I've been hit by 10k+ decapitates before. 24 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said: Huh? I can get 10k crits with that. Some hoops required but its not abnormal. In all fairness its on a glass signet meme build thats usually my main for Memeflame builds. My bad I forgot strength line exists temporarily 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingSwipe.3084 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 3 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: My bad I forgot strength line exists temporarily Common occurrence, Defence/Disipline train usually leaves no survivors for warrior builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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