CELE Harbinger

[senftube.6081]

Can we maybe start to adjust that abomination? Super broken

[disForm.2837]

Super broken? You must be new if you think Harb is super broken. It's one of the most common roaming specs alongside thief, WB, mesmers for a reason, they are strong. 

But like all specializations, Harb have weaknesses. Learn how to exploit them. For starters, very few specs can overpower Harb one vs one, don't even try it if you don't know what you are doing. 

[Atoclone.4810]

2 hours ago, disForm.2837 said:

Super broken? You must be new if you think Harb is super broken. It's one of the most common roaming specs alongside thief, WB, mesmers for a reason, they are strong. 

But like all specializations, Harb have weaknesses. Learn how to exploit them. For starters, very few specs can overpower Harb one vs one, don't even try it if you don't know what you are doing. 

Very few specs can beat it 121 does sound pretty broken

[Auragen.4162]

3 hours ago, disForm.2837 said:

Super broken? You must be new if you think Harb is super broken. It's one of the most common roaming specs alongside thief, WB, mesmers for a reason, they are strong. 

But like all specializations, Harb have weaknesses. Learn how to exploit them. For starters, very few specs can overpower Harb one vs one, don't even try it if you don't know what you are doing. 

Are you some kind of malfunctioning AI chat bot, or has the cele + pay to win specialization cope really reached a new peak?

3 hours ago, disForm.2837 said:

 just bring more ppl bro they aren't meant to lose 1v1 🤡

Edited July 17 by Auragen.4162

[Kuya.6495]

I've found that projectile blocks/reflects shut down harbs. With that said, it doesn't mean you can kill it though. 

[H K.4057]

2 hours ago, Atoclone.4810 said:

Very few specs can beat it 121 does sound pretty broken

Good thing WvW isn't about 1v1. Cele is bad for the game because it forces patterns of play that are just not very fun or interesting, and I think it should be removed or nerfed. However, the people complaining about cele will just complain about "1-shot" builds or "perm stealth" builds or anything else they lose to. This post, like all other posts, is a way for bad players to vent, and doesn't actually promote any kind of constructive discussion about WvW.

[XECOR.2814]

2 hours ago, Atoclone.4810 said:

Very few specs can beat it 121 does sound pretty broken

old new. if you cant tank or run away from 5 people then its not broken with 0 counterplay.
laughs in willbender, deadeye and cele catalyst.

Edited July 17 by XECOR.2814

[Asur.2510]

Cele Harbinger is the way it is because necro has no active defence. Harbinger relies on the health bar and slow sustain over time, so it's either oppressively tanky 1v1 or it instantly dies to focus fire in any team fight.

If you want to nerf Cele Harbinger then you need to first address the lack of active defence abilities.

While you wait for that, you can bring stuns and burst, because that's how you kill a build that relies on slow sustain. It's relatively easy to focus down a cele harbinger in team fights because they have no damage immunity skills and little stability.

[disForm.2837]

4 hours ago, Atoclone.4810 said:

Very few specs can beat it 121 does sound pretty broken

That's not what I said, "overpower" was the exact word. There are plenty of specs that can beat Harbinger. But directly trading blows with a harbinger is a bad idea in general. 

That's what most inexperienced players do. Don't get me wrong, it's very strong at every level, but broken? Not really.

[disForm.2837]

3 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

I've found that projectile blocks/reflects shut down harbs. With that said, it doesn't mean you can kill it though. 

There are a bunch of idiots that just try to force fights, die and keep crying about cele. 

Reflects/blocks/invul/cc/mobility, those are the weapons against Harb. Trying to match it directly it's a bad idea.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Just play teef, it counters everything in roaming.
Avoid elite elixir, use some reflects and cc it to death when they dont have stab. You can also spam condies like Virtuoso/Mirage/Teefs.
It still can get bursted down easily...

[Atoclone.4810]

1 hour ago, disForm.2837 said:

That's not what I said, "overpower" was the exact word. There are plenty of specs that can beat Harbinger. But directly trading blows with a harbinger is a bad idea in general. 

That's what most inexperienced players do. Don't get me wrong, it's very strong at every level, but broken? Not really.

Apologies then, i miscomprehended. 

[solemn.9670]

...Have fun trying to get more than a few people in this forum to admit that cele harb is disproportionately unbalanced compared to every other spec in WvW. My favourite line (a classic) is "WvW iSn'T bAlAnCeD aRoUnD 1Vs1" 😂 in other words, "yes OBVIOUSLY harbinger is obscenely overpowered but it's ok because you just need to outnumber them every single time" 👏👏👏👏 great game design

 

...but if an elementalist does it you must nerf them immediately. Necro is fine. Ele? NERF.

3 hours ago, disForm.2837 said:

That's not what I said, "overpower" was the exact word. There are plenty of specs that can beat Harbinger. But directly trading blows with a harbinger is a bad idea in general. 

That's what most inexperienced players do. Don't get me wrong, it's very strong at every level, but broken? Not really.

... I would really love for you to meet some of the cele harbinger players that I know. I assure you, it won't be enough 😂 some of you are forgetting that good harbinger players exist. A bad harbinger player can beat a good player on another class. A good harbinger is unkillable 1v1 and does not give a single kitten about reflects, blocks, invuln, or mobility. It will not matter, they know exactly how to chain their skills and they are built around countering literally everything they could possibly fight.

Edited July 17 by solemn.9670

[bq pd.2148]

19 minutes ago, solemn.9670 said:

some of you are forgetting that good harbinger players exist.

by this forums logic if a build is strong, its users are all bad and carried by it.

that said, i do rarely run into harbingers, easily 10 reapers per harbinger and might even run into more core necros than harbingers, so finding a rare good one among them is not that easy.

[oatsnjuices.1698]

Cele is broken. 

[Nefras.7314]

Time to get absolutely nowhere in the next cele thread 😪

[oatsnjuices.1698]

4 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:

 I would really love for you to meet some of the cele harbinger players that I know. I assure you, it won't be enough 😂 some of you are forgetting that good harbinger players exist. A bad harbinger player can beat a good player on another class. A good harbinger is unkillable 1v1 and does not give a single kitten about reflects, blocks, invuln, or mobility. It will not matter, they know exactly how to chain their skills and they are built around countering literally everything they could possibly fight.

Blood magic make even bad players good when playing celestial harbinger. 

[Codename T.2847]

I'm more of a power Reaper enjoyer, I try to fight every class I run into with it, except when I know it's a matchup I literally can't win against. That being said tho, sometimes in aforementioned cases I just quickswitch to Cele harb (SR/DM) and I am flabbergasted by how much less thinking I need to do which is pretty crazy considering Reaper is already kinda easy xD

Edited July 18 by Codename T.2847

[CafPow.1542]

7 hours ago, oatsnjuices.1698 said:

Cele is broken. 

I was asking when this comes up lol.

3 hours ago, Codename T.2847 said:

I'm more of a power Reaper enjoyer, I try to fight every class I run into with it, except when I know it's a matchup I literally can't win against. That being said tho, sometimes in aforementioned cases I just quickswitch to Cele harb (SR/DM) and I am flabbergasted by how much less thinking I need to do which is pretty crazy considering Reaper is already kinda easy xD

yeah reaper and scourge are clearly >>>>> harbinger. 
not balancewise. Funwise.

[Nefras.7314]

57 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

yeah reaper and scourge are clearly >>>>> harbinger. 
not balancewise. Funwise.

Scourge is pure brainrot gameplay, even compared to harb.

[CafPow.1542]

4 minutes ago, Nefras.7314 said:

Scourge is pure brainrot gameplay, even compared to harb.

Well everyone to their own.

[KrHome.1920]

21 hours ago, senftube.6081 said:

Can we maybe start to adjust that abomination? Super broken

I'd like to see the build you are playing. Power burst with a bit of mobility shuts cele harb down quite easily.

If you run condi or some bunker power build (that has a low damage output), you won't cut it. Condi cleanse on the most common harb roaming builds is crazy as well as its HP regeneration. Whether the first is overpowered is debateable, but the latter is not cause harb has no damage absorbing shroud and no blocks.

Besides that: Like I always say: Kite the elite Elixier boon uptime! If you see that 21423543 boons pop up in his buff bar => leap / teleport instantly and wait 7 seconds, then re-engage.

[meerfunkuhtron.9725]

17 hours ago, H K.4057 said:

Cele is bad for the game because it forces patterns of play that are just not very fun or interesting, and I think it should be removed or nerfed.

I used to feel this way, but I don't think this is the case tbh. I think there's just certain classes/builds that have the capabilities to exploit the heck out of cele's stats. It was a bit of a problem before, but with the way that Anet has treated classes like necro and how they've handled things like condition damage, then it's become so much more of an issue to the point where it couldn't be ignored. I think what we're seeing is just a part of the actual issue.

1 hour ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Besides that: Like I always say: Kite the elite Elixier boon uptime! If you see that 21423543 boons pop up in his buff bar => leap / teleport instantly and wait 7 seconds, then re-engage

With the addition of swords (and with Anet adding in another teleport for necro with the spear so we have more to look forward to), I've been finding it very hard to get away from them. It's not like they're just going to stand there and not chase after you within those 7 seconds.

Necros were built with the highest health pools in the game, with a second health bar, and with the opportunity to add more toughness to themselves (with the option of power scaling with that toughness) because necros didn't have much for mobility. That was one thing they were missing that kept them in line with the rest and now that Anet said kitten it to their own designs, it's the reason why they've become such a problem.

Anyway, my own thoughts for this thread brings me back to when people hated on certain classes that seemed to have it all from the onset: hits really hard, has high mobility, and high survivability. And Anet would agree, they would nerf those classes. To me, these reactions were reasonable because, for example, if a class wanted high damage, they typically had to wear berserkers or other stats for going glass cannon. There's supposed to be some level of risk, some trade-off. With necros and other problematic classes or builds (such as ones boosted so much by cele gear), there isn't a trade-off. So many classes have been nerfed through the years for being "too powerful", yet these things exist. I think that's the part that really takes me out.

Edited July 18 by meerfunkuhtron.9725

[bq pd.2148]

1 hour ago, meerfunkuhtron.9725 said:

With the addition of swords (and with Anet adding in another teleport for necro with the spear so we have more to look forward to), I've been finding it very hard to get away from them. It's not like they're just going to stand there and not chase after you within those 7 seconds.

a harbinger running sword + spear at me i would assume to be power, breath slightly in their direction and watch them dissolve.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

ok, I decided that I wanted the new weapons. Since I didn’t have any tickets, I went back and the first thing that happened was a core necro jumping at me while I was fighting in a camp full of ogres and NPCs, which resulted in my death. I respawned and headed back to kill him, but I failed again. Obviously, I should have paid more attention, but since I didn’t care, I just jumped at him wearing my generic PvE build with auto-targeting on. Regardless, when I realized this, I switched to a more WvW-oriented build, but he just disappeared. However, later on, I encountered a Harbinger, and I melted it, not even giving it a chance to fight back and again, I wasn't even trying. So, how exactly are all of you dying to Harbingers?