What I think WvW needs

[Krash.9486]

I have been playing this game since the Beta. I came to this game looking for a replacement to Warhammer Online's open world PvP capture and hold format which I really enjoyed. Didn't care that much for the gear grind of the sPvP format, however. I am a long-time gamer but I quit being fanatical 12 hour plus World of Warcraft raider and went more casual making gaming a fun game again instead of a grind fest second job!  Yes, causal gamers need love too!

But Anet has taken the WvW open PvP format and made it an environment where a few casual gamers could roam and contribute or run in a pug group and have still have meaningful fights...to a comp group boonball dominating farm fest that is only fun for the players in those groups. I don't blame those players....if you are in a guild that has the people and the skill you can have fun and rake in the bags.  They will be almost unkillable unless you have a better comped and skilled group. Well, that's the point you say!  It is and the players that put in the time to learn the builds and the skills to play those builds deserve the satisfaction of winning!

But casual players deserve to have fun too. And no don't say go PvE then. I like PvP and I like the capture and hold format. But Anet has made that almost impossible with these new changes.

What these organized groups want is fights vs other skilled groups, I think. Surely, they what a challenge and not just rolling over a bunch or pugs again and again..

What they want I think is sGvG. Open up sPvP to 15v15, 20v20 and 30v30 groups. Have the equipment like in sPvP where everyone can have access to everything and tweak their own build without having to grind out gear. Have mini one day and longer month-long tournaments.  That would give players a place to find competitive fights and show off their skills and have fun.

And then give us back our open world PvP WvW capture and defend game play...and give me back my server and friends I have played with for the last 12 years!

Oh, and get rid of endless pulls, (If I block/evade one I should be immune to another for at least a few seconds) 

I don't post here much....just got fed up with this game I have been supporting for over 12 years......I am sure I am about to get trashed by trolls now tho....oh well...

Edited July 24 by Krash.9486

[XenesisII.1540]

It's about time to make a separate wvw area like they have between open world pve and instanced raids and fractals and strikes. They have arenas but they don't like spending more than one day a week in there if at all, and they need wvw rewards. It's about time these groups had a place to face appropriate groups that match their size and comp to farm their rewards, their own battlegrounds if you will, if they're going to keep balance on this track. 🤷‍♂️

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

It's about time to make a separate wvw area like they have between open world pve and instanced raids and fractals and strikes. They have arenas but they don't like spending more than one day a week in there if at all, and they need wvw rewards. It's about time these groups had a place to face appropriate groups that match their size and comp to farm their rewards, their own battlegrounds if you will, if they're going to keep balance on this track. 🤷‍♂️

Only the cynical believe that organized wvw groups play only gvg and should be in the arenas or some instanced battleground and want only fights against other such groups. Wvw offers unstructured pvp where anything can happen and it is that unknown which attracts players to it.

Edited July 24 by Chaba.5410

[Triptaminas.4789]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Only the cynical believe that organized wvw groups play only gvg and should be in the arenas or some instanced battleground and want only fights against other such groups. Wvw offers unstructured pvp where anything can happen and it is that unknown which attracts players to it.

Boonblobs go to red bg if they start losing to cloud or chatmanders, then if followed hop they back or to other maps to split defenders in que's

Some notorious 😉 guilds constantly doing just that it's how they at the top of lbs

They only want to farm pugs and enemies that can't defend themselfs or resist, 99% of boonballs and guilds is like that. 

It will always be like that, is part of human nature. There is os and eodm arenas for organized fights but they dead in isolated circlejerk because balance is laughable and majority doesn't want to fight equally numbered opponents they better w key pugs. "Fight" guilds is a lie and a cope even the few that actually sit in eodm and os all the time 15v15, 30v30 isn't really fight guilds as they go to bg get rolled over by cloud and return to their comfy circlejerks where they can win in their isolated microcosm. 

What even is this convo, u guys new or smtg? 

Edited July 24 by Triptaminas.4789

[KrHome.1920]

The solution to the boonblobs wiping PUGs issue is not trying to lure boonblobs into arenas. The solution ist to rebalance boons.

[Dayra.7405]

If you compare the number and the cooldowns of boon giving and boon stripping skills you know where the balance is missing.

[Junkpile.7439]

+10k meteor shower crits

[Chaba.5410]

4 hours ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

99% of boonballs and guilds is like that.

Which is why I find it cynical to suggest that they will go to some instanced battleground for "skilled fights".  No they won't.

These guilds, whether liked or not, are "WvW" guilds in that their players participate in what WvW has to offer and there is a diversity of what happens in WvW.  If they come against a larger group, they'll go do something else like hop maps to hit some objectives or check out if there's another group there.  Or they do it because they want to change up the content.

Edited July 24 by Chaba.5410

[Leaa.2943]

4 minutes ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

+10k meteor shower crits

Meanwhile  on ranger with quickdraw and Lead the wind you can pretty much spam Barrage over and over AND it cripple AND it hit 5 targets AND it have no  querki internal damage cooldowns that Meteorshower have. But omg ele doing one meteorshower every 30 sec with a 3 sec cast time with a querki internalcooldown and only have 3 targets THAT is really a ISSUE. (no it is not)

[kash.9213]

I don't think you'd see nearly as many roamers or other wandering groups as you think in your new game modes. Maybe I'm wrong but roaming and other small-scale movement seems to be an outlet for people who like some element of open world pvp even if WvW is designed mostly as a large scale arena match. I don't know if you retain the numbers if they're locked into mostly predictable matches but I don't know if just having the option would hurt at all. 

Edited July 24 by kash.9213

[Sheff.4851]

1 hour ago, kash.9213 said:

I don't think you'd see nearly as many roamers or other wandering groups as you think in your new game modes. Maybe I'm wrong but roaming and other small-scale movement seems to be an outlet for people who like some element of open world pvp even if WvW is designed mostly as a large scale arena match. I don't know if you retain the numbers if they're locked into mostly predictable matches but I don't know if just having the option would hurt at all. 

I agree with this. The relationship between roamers and zergs is reciprocal. Players in a zerg dying or getting caught off their stack and trying to make it back to tag generates content for roamers. Removing organized groups from World vs. World would make the already low small-scale activity even worse, by significantly reducing the number of players in the gamemode overall.

[Cuks.8241]

There are already arenas and player organised tournaments for gvg outside of wvw. But it's not something players do every night. It's ok once or twice per week but sometimes you just want the randomness of normal wvw. It also takes more coordination and group size are limited and set so you either don't have enough players or you need to bench some.

I don't see a lot of organised roamers or just good roamers in general. There are much more players that just hoover around big groups and try to get some bags by spamming into balls and maybe even complain about hidden tags. Funnily the best roaming I get to play is with my guildies when we don't run a squad but we just run small havoc groups. So the same players that play in boonballs. Really, one big group, be it ppt or fight group can only really be on one place at the time and if it's a fight group it won't care about objectives and roamers anyway. It's really hard to blame it for lack of roaming content.

[Krash.9486]

Quote

On 7/24/2024 at 4:52 AM, Triptaminas.4789 said:

They only want to farm pugs and enemies that can't defend themselfs or resist, 99% of boonballs and guilds is like that. 

Yeah, give em a baseball bat and a beach full of baby seals and these guys are in heaven! 

 

[Krash.9486]

Personally, I switched from predictable dungeon raids to PvP because I enjoy the challenge of going up against a human opponent who might do anything vs a Boss MOB that I just need to learn the pattern to defeat over and over. 

 

And rolling pugs in a phat zerg or skilled comp group is in no way satisfying to me. To each his own I guess.....enjoy clubbing those baby seals..😐

Edited July 26 by Krash.9486

[Krash.9486]

On 7/24/2024 at 6:12 AM, KrHome.1920 said:

The solution to the boonblobs wiping PUGs issue is not trying to lure boonblobs into arenas. The solution ist to rebalance boons.

I agree with this 100%.....But let them boonball in an arena setting where they will face another boonball for an even playing field......nerf the boons in open PvP/WvW and return to a fun play style for everyone.

AND...nerf the pulls so when you get hit or dodge/block one you are immune for 3-5 seconds.

[Chief.7143]

Hopefully their algorithm can spread out the sweats and the casuals, cause so far its been REALLY bad and if spvp is any indication of their ability to do this with a f2p game. WvW is RIP soon just like sPVP.

[Riba.3271]

9 hours ago, Chief.7143 said:

Hopefully their algorithm can spread out the sweats and the casuals, cause so far its been REALLY bad and if spvp is any indication of their ability to do this with a f2p game. WvW is RIP soon just like sPVP.

Impossible, proper matchmaking (monoservers) is only way to split casuals from tryhards. You will never get rid of sweaty groups with 500 guild cap since if they ever start to lose more 1 fight in a row, they will just recruit more people

Only way to make decently sized teams, is make guild potential size much smaller, so they have lot of guilds to work the algorithm with and even if 1 guild goes inactive/active, it won't change much. 1 guild (<70 people) per 1 guild, not 500 people.

Edited July 26 by Riba.3271

[Sheff.4851]

3 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Impossible, proper matchmaking (monoservers) is only way to split casuals from tryhards. You will never get rid of sweaty groups with 500 guild cap since if they ever start to lose more 1 fight in a row, they will just recruit more people

Only way to make decently sized teams, is make guild potential size much smaller, so they have lot of guilds to work the algorithm with and even if 1 guild goes inactive/active, it won't change much. 1 guild (<70 people) per 1 guild, not 500 people.

I'm still not totally sure how we make community matter more, by limiting the size of the community that players are allowed to be in. I don't want to play with strangers every night. I want to play with my friends.

[Chaba.5410]

4 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Impossible, proper matchmaking (monoservers) is only way to split casuals from tryhards. You will never get rid of sweaty groups with 500 guild cap since if they ever start to lose more 1 fight in a row, they will just recruit more people

Back before server links, the player base came to believe that the tier system could be used to split itself by playstyle.  People who claimed they wanted smaller fights went to the lower tiers.  There was also a claim that blobs made roaming dead.  Was it true?  So I transferred an account around to both T1 and T8 for the experience.

What I discovered was due to the higher population, there were more roamers around in T1.  Lot of good small skirmish fights were occurring in most maps.  Sure, you had to have your head on a swivel for the blob that would come around every once in awhile, but it didn't really matter since the blob was headed to fight other blobs.  And T8 ended up having zergs that would also blob you down, but it was harder to find roamers.  T8 also had some GvG guilds in it too that I found in the OS.

TL;DR: The point is tiers only ever reflected team population sizes.  We've never had "proper matchmaking" for skill even with monoservers.  And blobs didn't make roaming dead, less population made roaming dead.

Edited July 26 by Chaba.5410

[Leaa.2943]

I don't understand why it should be either/or. Before the boonball we could all be on one server all doing the things we wanted without having some larger issues. Now it is not like that. I am sure it is possible to ballance it back a bit to a point where we again are able to play the way we want too without exclude groups as Anet have done now.

[XenesisII.1540]

You'd have to get rid of selfish people first. Or find a worthwhile goal for everyone to go after no matter how they play, that was suppose to be points to win, but we know how that goes these days. More than likely you would have to offer up some end of week fat prize for doing some meta achievements as a world or something. 2012-13 is forever gone.

[Sheff.4851]

18 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Or find a worthwhile goal for everyone to go after no matter how they play

Fortunately, in the developer interview that I recently did, Roy and Cecil talked about how ArenaNet is beginning to implement exactly this, now that Restructuring and scoring reworks are in place. When the player base has a common goal, they'll have a reason to work together with one another, unlike how it is now where groups only pursue the kind of content that they want.

[Chaba.5410]

6 minutes ago, Sheff.4851 said:

Fortunately, in the developer interview that I recently did, Roy and Cecil talked about how ArenaNet is beginning to implement exactly this, now that Restructuring and scoring reworks are in place. When the player base has a common goal, they'll have a reason to work together with one another, unlike how it is now where groups only pursue the kind of content that they want.

It would be great if they find a way to incentivize the 2 weaker servers to attack the stronger server. That extends the idea of working together to make the match more competitive.

[Sheff.4851]

3 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

It would be great if they find a way to incentivize the 2 weaker servers to attack the stronger server. That extends the idea of working together to make the match more competitive.

Players on the team leading the skirmish are worth 3 PPK, one more than normal.
Players on the team losing the skirmish are worth 1 PPK, one less than normal.

First thing I can think of to incentivize fights against the right groups, in terms of bringing down the strongest server. If I've got the choice of fighting BBC at three points a head or DOC at one point a head, I'd go fight BBC.

[XenesisII.1540]

21 minutes ago, Sheff.4851 said:

Fortunately, in the developer interview that I recently did, Roy and Cecil talked about how ArenaNet is beginning to implement exactly this, now that Restructuring and scoring reworks are in place. When the player base has a common goal, they'll have a reason to work together with one another, unlike how it is now where groups only pursue the kind of content that they want.

Implementing what exactly?

Cause so far they're just implementing stuff that's dividing the communities and players instead. 🤷‍♂️