kruption.9380 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 I just started playing WvW again after X amount of years. Still learning about all the changes but since no one I know plays any more I'm guild-less. My question is basically, is joining a WvW guild harder or different with said changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 (edited) 35 minutes ago, kruption.9380 said: I just started playing WvW again after X amount of years. Still learning about all the changes but since no one I know plays any more I'm guild-less. My question is basically, is joining a WvW guild harder or different with said changes? Join one of the regional discords and find out. Lot of guilds are recruiting. The only problem you will have is not being able to join them until next team formation in about a month. Are you NA or EU? Or search through this forum for the post with the discord links. Edited July 30 by Chaba.5410 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One more for the road.8950 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 3 hours ago, kruption.9380 said: I just started playing WvW again after X amount of years. Still learning about all the changes but since no one I know plays any more I'm guild-less. My question is basically, is joining a WvW guild harder or different with said changes? I know there are EU guilds and alliances actively recruiting both beginners and more veteran players, with everything from no attendance requirements to applying with footage, no idea about NA. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willow.8209 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 3 hours ago, kruption.9380 said: I just started playing WvW again after X amount of years. Still learning about all the changes but since no one I know plays any more I'm guild-less. My question is basically, is joining a WvW guild harder or different with said changes? it should be easier because you're no longer limited to guilds from your own server (or needing to transfer to the guild's server). besides what Chaba said, you can also take a look at the guild recruiting forums here. 14 minutes ago, One more for the road.8950 said: I know there are EU guilds and alliances actively recruiting both beginners and more veteran players, with everything from no attendance requirements to applying with footage, no idea about NA. seems similar to me (I'm NA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voegelin.5642 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 I basically PUG. I have a guild but haven't discord with them or anyone else for years, and since I started playing again after many years away. I've had some fun roaming under the new system. Basically I think because of weak duelists on other servers than what I was used to, so I got some fun kills. But, before, I knew which tags were good and which were not. Now not so much. Not knowing the commanders as a PUG is the weak spot of this system for me. That and it seems like more commanders hide their tags than I'm used to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddie.5861 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 i feel like im johnny i dont care about anything anymore i dont know who is who i dont know if a person next to me is a roamer or some1 who will dash off instantly when a fight starts. i miss old servers 😞 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voegelin.5642 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Community. People won't train, talk, teach etc as much without servers. The person you are teaching will be your enemy soon. It is not as bad as pvp, where they could be your competitor in 8 minutes, but still bad. 9 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff.4851 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 5 hours ago, Voegelin.5642 said: Community. People won't train, talk, teach etc as much without servers. The person you are teaching will be your enemy soon. It is not as bad as pvp, where they could be your competitor in 8 minutes, but still bad. This is a major factor for why public commanders stopped doing public commanding when the relink system was introduced back in 2016 or whenever -- random pugs who join your squad may be from the link, and be your enemy two months from now. It's been a problem long before Restructuring. 3 1 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindstroem.3601 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 (edited) - Alliances, who were supposed to carry the server are playing for maybe 2 or 3 hours in the evening, mostly fighting other alliance groups with private tags, refusing to let pugs group with them most of the time because "inhouse" - Open tag commanders dont tag up anymore. Effort to get to know all the new randoms in a few weeks time and teach them the commanders play style is just too much of an effort every few weeks This leads to the point that there is barely any content left outside of some bored randoms luring around SM to hit each other a few times and then log off again (in case EBG isnt spawned camped by one server what seems also pretty common in most matchups) Also this week in EU there is only one server with most skills but not leading the matchup. That shows, that small groups and roamers, who often kept the ppt high for some outnumbered servers in the first shuffle, already gave up. Edited July 31 by lindstroem.3601 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajalbelvue.5319 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 On 7/28/2024 at 6:31 AM, Dawdler.8521 said: it would require everyone to join guilds and pull their own weight Requiring what ppl don't want to do. It's near impossible getting ppl to join discord, let along join a guild. Requiring ppl to join a guild or alliance is a great way to exclude players from playing. If players are saying they lost something with the change, there's a problem. You never take away something from a player. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 11 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: This is a major factor for why public commanders stopped doing public commanding when the relink system was introduced back in 2016 or whenever -- random pugs who join your squad may be from the link, and be your enemy two months from now. It's been a problem long before Restructuring. What problem? Sorry we seem to have the same excuse be it single servers, linked servers or WR. Tags don't want to share the whys of a thing. Been testing this during all, three. Going to have to call that out as BS. Its up to each tag to decide if they want to share as they go. What we are seeing during the WR is more invis tags and less pug tags during prime time. So maybe a better question is should we still allow for invis tags during primetime? I support invis tags, but when the a tag reaches a threshold is that the same in any timezone? Might be time to adjust that logic. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthan.5236 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 I think it is just best to mainly play WvW as intended: For the rewards. Maybe also sometimes for a small bit of fun. But do not care about winning or playing the objectives too much - they change stuff tooo often ... and it doesn't really matter which team wins the matchup according to victory points in the end. Does not affect the rewards or the enjoyment of the battles when you are online. Yes with the old servers it was nice to be able to see people you knew - even if you were not organized in big builds. But then again ... winning doesn't really feel like "your" win. Which is a problem of the game mode itself. In PvP you play the whole match - cause it is short. In WvW - unless you are a harcore WvW player only grinding it 24/7 you are a very small amount of time in there and the other time ... other players play it. Not your win/loss. (Which means: Less motivation to play for the win.) The change to victory points (more at prime time) seems to have been targeted at this a bit ... not sure though. It might just make the queues at prime time longer and people just going online at a different time (when it even matters less) - unless they are hardcore fans that are logged in before the queues get big. 😄 I don't (yet) see a real "direction" they want to move towards. (Similar for PvP at the time more infos about the new game mode got made public. Seems an odd direction.) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 6 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said: I think it is just best to mainly play WvW as intended: For the rewards. Maybe also sometimes for a small bit of fun. But do not care about winning or playing the objectives too much - they change stuff tooo often ... and it doesn't really matter which team wins the matchup according to victory points in the end. Does not affect the rewards or the enjoyment of the battles when you are online. Yes with the old servers it was nice to be able to see people you knew - even if you were not organized in big builds. But then again ... winning doesn't really feel like "your" win. Which is a problem of the game mode itself. In PvP you play the whole match - cause it is short. In WvW - unless you are a harcore WvW player only grinding it 24/7 you are a very small amount of time in there and the other time ... other players play it. Not your win/loss. (Which means: Less motivation to play for the win.) The change to victory points (more at prime time) seems to have been targeted at this a bit ... not sure though. It might just make the queues at prime time longer and people just going online at a different time (when it even matters less) - unless they are hardcore fans that are logged in before the queues get big. 😄 I don't (yet) see a real "direction" they want to move towards. (Similar for PvP at the time more infos about the new game mode got made public. Seems an odd direction.) I admit I care less about winning with servers. Because it's more about hanging out with peeps you identify with. So it is more chill and just playing. With the WR, not as much. Hold our stuff, take theirs, ours up, them down. Go to win. And that is before they add reasons to win that have been requested over time. So, remove our chill places, and well interesting times will be had. Good hunting! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One more for the road.8950 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 7 hours ago, lindstroem.3601 said: - Alliances, who were supposed to carry the server are playing for maybe 2 or 3 hours in the evening, mostly fighting other alliance groups with private tags, refusing to let pugs group with them most of the time because "inhouse" Inhouse aren't even on the maps, why would ppl want to join those if they aren't interested in inhouses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff.4851 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 3 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said: What problem? Sorry we seem to have the same excuse be it single servers, linked servers or WR. Tags don't want to share the whys of a thing. Been testing this during all, three. Going to have to call that out as BS. Its up to each tag to decide if they want to share as they go. What we are seeing during the WR is more invis tags and less pug tags during prime time. So maybe a better question is should we still allow for invis tags during primetime? I support invis tags, but when the a tag reaches a threshold is that the same in any timezone? Might be time to adjust that logic. Tags used to share quite a bit -- they'd hold public trainings, hold public raids, and work on training pugs to be an effective fighting force. It was a valuable way for new players to get involved in the game mode, learn a bit, and get tutorialized into the way that organized groups work. This worked especially well before megaservers, because the people on your server were the people on your server, and they never rotated around. Most people who were public tags, doing public trainings, point to the release of the world linking system as the beginning of the death of public tagging, because now people on your server weren't necessarily people on your server. They could be on the link, and transfers were more heavily incentivized for groups looking for good fights and good content. The time that you spent training players didn't necessarily mean they would play in your squad. They might go off and play in your enemy's squad. And so a lot of the incentive for doing public trainings and tagging was lost, and groups spent more time running private (note: this was long before groups had the option of private tagging through the UI, and private tags will happen whether there's an option for it or not). As for your last question, why should we allow for invis tags during prime, it's relatively easy. Deciding to be a commander isn't community service. Some people want to play with just their community, and other people want to limit the size of their group to be more effective at small scales. Some people just don't want to have to sort strangers who aren't going to stay on tag anyway. Commanders can choose to help their team, if they want, but commanding isn't an obligation to put in community service. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atoclone.4810 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 53 minutes ago, Sheff.4851 said: Tags used to share quite a bit -- they'd hold public trainings, hold public raids, and work on training pugs to be an effective fighting force. It was a valuable way for new players to get involved in the game mode, learn a bit, and get tutorialized into the way that organized groups work. This worked especially well before megaservers, because the people on your server were the people on your server, and they never rotated around. I saw quite a few tags doing this in the last round, not seen any this time but I've not had much chance to play. But the one day I did there were open tags and they were all really pleasant. It may well be it's the same folks doing it now who were doing it for their old servers. If that's the case then some of you used to have that and it was great but others didn't and that was less great. Tbh the only guaranteed way for all sides to have decent commanders is for anet to employ them and set a schedule 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff.4851 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 2 minutes ago, Atoclone.4810 said: I saw quite a few tags doing this in the last round, not seen any this time but I've not had much chance to play. But the one day I did there were open tags and they were all really pleasant. It may well be it's the same folks doing it now who were doing it for their old servers. If that's the case then some of you used to have that and it was great but others didn't and that was less great. Tbh the only guaranteed way for all sides to have decent commanders is for anet to employ them and set a schedule Or, for some content creators to provide resources for people to learn how to command themselves, and start tagging up. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaa.2943 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 You hit the nail so right and so exact that there is nothing else to add. This is exactly why i feel lost even though i have a lot of players with me who are my friends that i usually run with but still i miss all people that are not with me and also all the players that i played along side with. I knew you, and you knew me we both knew what to expect and we jumped in to fights. Happy Birthday BIGGIE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomact.5693 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) The real problem is the "one month link" wich is far too short to know anybody tag/player. I was in an almost dead server and changed main server every 2 months but, before it changed, i had two months to know every body… As the servers didn't change the time after i could remember who was who. Today, i don't know anybody (out of my small guild) who is this tag ? Fight, KT … ? When will he plays ? and the sadest is that i will never have time to know. So, at last a 2 months link would be better and new servers would be the best. And for the "balance" ? today it is not better nor worse than before. Some match up are balance, some are not, some are not at all, just as it has always been... So there is no reason to keep these "alliances" as they are … Edited August 1 by Vomact.5693 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: Tags used to share quite a bit -- Did before and still do. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: they'd hold public trainings, This is what I label as chill groups, hasn't changed. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: hold public raids, Still run open but need to wait for less invis tags. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: and work on training pugs to be an effective fighting force. This is ongoing. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: It was a valuable way for new players to get involved in the game mode, learn a bit, and get tutorialized In a number of ways and not all of them voice. I think you imply to voice here. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: into the way that organized groups work. Agree, voice comped groups with stacked gear sets excel the most. That doesn't discount all shared habits that groups might use. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: This worked especially well before megaservers Megaservers? That never impacted WvW, not sure where you are going. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: , because the people on your server were the people on your server, and they never rotated around. Again not sure what you mean here. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: Most people who were public tags, doing public trainings No tags had preferences even then and asked others to walk away even when single server. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: , point to the release of the world linking system as the beginning of the death of public tagging This didn't really impact pub tagging, that is an assumption. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: They could be on the link, and transfers were more heavily incentivized for groups looking for good fights and good content. The time that you spent training players didn't necessarily mean they would play in your squad. Maybe that is fair. When pugmanding and rambling, based on the groups I try and tell them how to adjust to roamer, havoc and zerg tactics. So that could me. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: They might go off and play in your enemy's squad. That is why I share tactics. That forces me to develop new ones. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: And so a lot of the incentive for doing public trainings and tagging was lost The training is the fun in itself and seeing them do better to increase the challenge for all sides. Be them with me or, running me over. Ask I ask many before relinks, don't throw Walmart siege, sell it or send it to their guild scribes for use. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: , and groups spent more time running private (note: this was long before groups had the option of private tagging through the UI, and private tags will happen whether there's an option for it or not). I still support private and forum posted for it for I don't know how long, but it might need changes to limit its use. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: As for your last question, why should we allow for invis tags during prime, it's relatively easy. Deciding to be a commander isn't community service. Argument I used for a decade. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: Some people want to play with just their community Same but Guild. If you are in it for your community it would be public. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: , and other people want to limit the size of their group to be more effective at small scales. Small scale is 1-14 and agree there. When you move to 15, you are closer to a Warband. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: Some people just don't want to have to sort strangers who aren't going to stay on tag anyway. There is a difference here between not wanting to sort strangers versus pulling people off a main tag. 20 hours ago, Sheff.4851 said: Commanders can choose to help their team, if they want, but commanding isn't an obligation to put in community service. I disagree while supporting invis tags. Invis tags don't help their teams, they help their group. While being part of a team doesn't mean they help them since they don't allow the rest information that can allow a team to work together. When choosing invis versus visible its not about sorting strangers, it is about what will help my side. I will have to disagree I think you see this as more of hinderance to your group versus what you see is best for your server. Which, we will have to disagree about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 On 7/30/2024 at 1:16 PM, Voegelin.5642 said: Community. People won't train, talk, teach etc as much without servers. The person you are teaching will be your enemy soon. It is not as bad as pvp, where they could be your competitor in 8 minutes, but still bad. Depends on the tag. I do agree there might be less with Comm/Alliance guilds. But may not impact open pugmanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One more for the road.8950 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 I have seen comms do plenty of trainings outside of guild only after we got links. There's been a bit of a difference between the training in guilds and open ones, the guild ones usually go a bit more indepth and have ppl usually training on more guild specific builds or tactics catering to their style, while the open ones go regular meta. And the reason the open trainings have given for continuing after links is that it's more fun when the opponent also have a clue what they are doing. The open trainings HAVE almost but disappeared tho, and the decline in those I saw as the boons were easier and easier to maintain and meta getting more and more forgiving on lack of skill or movement. Basically, find build on metabattle or gw2mists, or link to build editor on server discord, with a short description of what to do. No need for training, not even movement. Where trainings used to be "get out of red, never stop moving" it became a "stand still or you won't get the boons". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff.4851 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said: Megaservers? That never impacted WvW, not sure where you are going. At the release of the game, there were no PvE mega servers. If you were on Blackgate, you saw other Blackgate players not only in World vs. World, but also in Lion's Arch, and in PvE maps. This meant that, if you team was under attack in World vs. World, you could go to PvE maps calling for assistance in World vs. World, and everybody who saw that message was on your team by default. As a result, your server's community extended into PvE maps, rather than only being WvW maps. This structure of servers ended with the release of Megaservers on April 15th, 2014, when World vs. World servers were decoupled from PvE servers. Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Introducing_the_Megaserver_System Quote This didn't really impact pub tagging, that is an assumption. It's not an assumption, it's a point that I have heard from former public tags that have either quit the game entirely, or decided to run closed. People like Bannok, Paralda, Visual Sun, Star Player, Tyrion Delos Bravos, and others. I'm just relaying what they have told me. If you disagree with it, that's fine, but it's something that about a dozen former public tags have mentioned as being a factor in why they quit or started running guild-only. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reina.1729 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) On 7/28/2024 at 11:15 AM, Ashen.2907 said: Gonna have to agree to disagree. Having to start from scratch every month, or whenever, rather than having long standing relationships where I know the people in the OP's examples is not a community to me. I don't get to see the names of my enemies so who they are, relative to past experiences with them on my team, does not contribute to a sense of community in the way that knowing the allies that I had been playing with for years does. Exactly my thoughts, this is like "committed relationship vs one night stands" . You know both can be fun, but there is a clear difference between the two in levels of depth. A sense of belonging is important in a community, knowing your people, your team, your colors, there is a sense of pride for some, not for others, we have the casuals, we have the hardcore and the middle grounds. It doesn't seem the case anymore. So starting from 0 every month is not what I would call a community at all. Now we just have smaller isolated islands instead that we call alliance guilds. But that might be just me. Edited August 2 by Reina.1729 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 4 minutes ago, Reina.1729 said: Exactly my thoughts, this is like "committed relationship vs one night stands" . You now both can be fun, but there is a clear difference between the two in levels of depth. A sense of belonging is important in a community, knowing your people, your team, your colors, there is a sense of pride for some, not for others, we have the casuals, we have the hardcore and the middle grounds. It doesn't seem the case anymore. So starting from 0 every month is not what I would call a community at all. Now we just have smaller isolated islands instead that we call alliance guilds. But that might be just me. Going by the way people ask for commanders the instant they log on the “committed relationship” to the world seem to be entirely dependant on whether there’s gonna be any snogging in the next 30 minutes or they can forget about it. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now