At this point, ranger will be just a better warrior AND a better thief

[Zekent.3652]

Being able to deal a good amount of CC while also good dmg + sustain + mobility + still the only spec that is still getting specs-like content (pets) + bunch of weapons (it has more weapons in a better state than the "master of weapons" lol)

And now it's also getting a lot of stealth while also being able to land crazy bursts out of stealth + a spear that will provide even MORE stealth and seems to be the best weapon of all the new ones for PvP (again)

It's just a "warrior" but better.

It's just a "thief" with more utility AND HP.

Edited July 29 by Zekent.3652

[Sahne.6950]

Yee... there is some pretty absurd Ranger builds around currently.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

1 hour ago, Zekent.3652 said:

At this point, ranger will be just a better warrior AND a better thief

I see that as an absolute win 👍

[aymnad.9023]

I did not like having the upgrade tied to stealth for gameplay reasons. It did not feel good to play and fight.

Now about the exaggeration I see. It was way easier to break stealth with spear than to stack it because every skill had a self reveal and the kit was not that great. The best play was to stealth then weapon swap to gs or something else to try to burst (which would have been better with something else). 

It will not bring the speed of thief, it will not bring the tankyness / ease of use of war. 

Edited July 29 by aymnad.9023

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

 

It will not bring the speed of thief, it will not bring the tankyness / ease of use of war. 

But it will bring enough of a mix of both to be more flexible than either in most run of the mill cases, is the point

Not that I want it nerfed.  It's just kind of obnoxiously obvious what a class is cabable of getting balance wise when there's a dev that understands what that class is supposed to do in competitive and how to deliver that in a thematic way. 

Maybe we could do that for a few more of them?

Edited July 29 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[aymnad.9023]

33 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

But it will bring enough of a mix of both to be more flexible than either in most run of the mill cases, is the point

Not that I want it nerfed.  It's just kind of obnoxiously obvious what a class is cabable of getting balance wise when there's a dev that understands what that class is supposed to do in competitive and how to deliver that in a thematic way. 

Maybe we could do that for a few more of them?

It will not. Playing the current version soulbeast will already fit those roles (rotation + bruiser) better in every situation unless spear gets some heavy buffs or a rework. And soulbeast (as strong as it currently is) does not see as much play.

Edited July 29 by aymnad.9023

[Eurantien.4632]

Ah yes, the classic nerf the least seen profession in competitive 5v5 play of all time.

Meanwhile thief has the highest presence of all time... If ranger was as fast or as effective as thief, there wouldn't be thieves...

Edited July 29 by Eurantien.4632

[Dadnir.5038]

Untamed got boon conversion and necromancers feared that ranger would become a "better" necromancer, yet it didn't happen.

Chill, the bit of stealth gained by ranger isn't going to be significant enough to make it a "better thief". It is (and will) probably be annoying to fight but it is far easier to put a longer CD on a ranger's stealth skill than it is to put a CD on a thief's weapon skill.

[asket.5674]

Delulu rangers inc.

[Flowki.7194]

Once the copers are forced off low risk thief, or low effort SPB play, they will discover ranger. In a way I prefere it, since most ranger is more difficult/risky to play well (its true thieves.. you just convinced yourselves that crown was yours).

Edited July 29 by Flowki.7194

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

27 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Once the copers are forced off low risk thief, or low effort SPB play, they will discover ranger. In a way I prefere it, since most ranger is more difficult/risky to play well (its true thieves.. you just convinced yourselves that crown was yours).

You being blind to game sense because you're too focused on mechanical complexity is kind of silly. I don't intend to make a point or critique your opinion harshly, but just a repeat of an observation that I'd like you to remember.

I hope you understand what I mean in the future, because it also makes you blind to classes that are easy to play despite also having a lot of buttons.

The game is more complicated than managing a lot of buttons. Small kits where you have to wait or attack in certain places to be effective can easily be the more skillful option, all the complexity just happens in the strategy.

There's a reason players understand the term "button masher" and can intuit that there is a seperation between number of button presses and skill output.

Edited July 29 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

12 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

You being blind to game sense because you're too focused on mechanical complexity is kind of silly. I don't intend to make a point or critique your opinion harshly, but just a repeat of an observation that I'd like you to remember.

I hope you understand what I mean in the future, because it also makes you blind to classes that are easy to play despite also having a lot of buttons.

The game is more complicated than managing a lot of buttons. Small kits where you have to wait or attack in certain places to be effective can easily be the more skillful option, all the complexity just happens in the strategy.

There's a reason players understand the term "button masher" and can intuit that there is a seperation between number of button presses and skill output.

Everything you said linearly applies to more buttons. I know what I am saying is true becuse mace untamed is insanely strong, but only for those who are applying the buttons at the correct time (which isn't many) to be of plat caliber. I have dueled so many plat level spbs, they are a dime a dozen, they all play nion identically, like clones, following very similar teather rotations. That is becuase the few buttons littearlly leads to that, the same answer to multiple situations. That is not my fault, I do not knock people who enjoy SPB, but I do knock how rediculously over performing it is <nothing personal>

Edited July 29 by Flowki.7194

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

22 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I do not knock people who enjoy SPB, but I do knock how rediculously over performing it is <nothing personal>

I don't play spb, so none taken. 

What I said applies to more builds than just spb though, and those builds, while still limited, get steamrolled by classes with more kit space that put out less effort. 

But I presume in those cases you would claim that's how it's supposed to be because small kit loses to big kit if the game is balanced. 

Edited July 29 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[vilesoldier.9826]

48 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I know what I am saying is true becuse mace untamed is insanely strong, but only for those who are applying the buttons at the correct time (which isn't many) to be of plat caliber.

 

Honestly speechless. The Flowki-supports-mace-ranger arc was not one I saw coming, whoever is writing this really knows how to subvert expectations.

 

I wonder if in the next season they’ll have a thief redemption b-plot 🤔

[Endo.1652]

2 minutes ago, vilesoldier.9826 said:

 

Honestly speechless. The Flowki-supports-mace-ranger arc was not one I saw coming, whoever is writing this really knows how to subvert expectations.

 

I wonder if in the next season they’ll have a thief redemption b-plot 🤔

At this point, yeah im waiting for the arc where axe thief is somehow argued as skillful and interactive gameplay.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

21 minutes ago, Endo.1652 said:

At this point, yeah im waiting for the arc where axe thief is somehow argued as skillful and interactive gameplay.

*in the distance, polishing an axe*

Quote

ᴴᵉʸ ᵇʳᵒ ʷᵈᶠ 😡😡😡🪓🪓🪓

Edited July 29 by Azure The Heartless.3261
It's pretty easy yeah, but I'd rather it than d/p for 3 more years

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Mace untamed is insanely strong, but only for those who are applying the buttons at the correct time 

See what I mean?

Quote

 it also makes you blind to classes that are easy to play despite also having a lot of buttons

 

Edited July 29 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

See what I mean?

 

I see what you are trying to mean.

 

The representations speak for themself, the vast majority of players in this game play specs that minimize effort/punishment and maximise output. That is why you see:

10x WB/reaper for every 1 vindi

50x WB/reaper for every 1 herald/holo

50x (or more) SPB for every 1 hammer cata/mace untamed

 

Ontop of that, WB/reaper/SPB combined are the most represented specs atm, by FAR. They are the current min/max, so to argue people are playing these "becuase they are fun" is absolute bs. They will move onto the next min/max, just like the p2s will move onto the next "vindi"

Edited July 29 by Flowki.7194

[Endo.1652]

4 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

10x WB/reaper for every 1 vindi

Yeah and all those willbenders are 10x easier to kill than that 1 vindi once that f3 runs out

[Flowki.7194]

7 minutes ago, Endo.1652 said:

Yeah and all those willbenders are 10x easier to kill than that 1 vindi once that f3 runs out

If that were true, then we would see 10x vindi for every 1 WB

 

It quite frankly isnt true. A g3/p1 vindi is far easier to kill/pressure out of a group fight than a similar level WB, play vindi and see for yourself, go see how laying down the damage is quite a bit different with no f3. There are plenty of reapers in game, who should have learned how to time CC on a vindi by now. They probably have, which partly explains why vindi is so rare to see, Ive seen only 1 in 20 games, yet 2WB per game is just normal.

 

Edited July 29 by Flowki.7194

[Endo.1652]

23 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

If that were true, then we would see 10x vindi for every 1 WB

 

It quite frankly isnt true. A g3/p1 vindi is far easier to kill/pressure out of a group fight than a similar level WB, play vindi and see for yourself, go see how laying down the damage is quite a bit different with no f3. There are plenty of reapers in game, who should have learned how to time CC on a vindi by now. They probably have, which partly explains why vindi is so rare to see, Ive seen only 1 in 20 games, yet 2WB per game is just normal.

 

That arguement is kind of a fallacy. People play wb cause its easier to generate downstates with cause of how its burst works. Its straight-forward to use than a vindi is. Use the same arguement for a plat 2-3 vindi vs a plat 2-3 willbender. The willbender will be 10x easier to kill.

I can argue SD thief is overtuned. The damage of some skills hit like a truck even without crit strikes. And if played right you can live through most stuff and move around the map like a you're playing in godmode. But you wont see a gold 3 player making it look that way. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Getting 'a lot of stealth', meaning one spear skill that stealths you while every other one reveals you? 

Yeah, great.  Awesome.  Gonna be suuuuper broke.  

[Flowki.7194]

47 minutes ago, Endo.1652 said:

That arguement is kind of a fallacy. People play wb cause its easier to generate downstates with cause of how its burst works. Its straight-forward to use than a vindi is. Use the same arguement for a plat 2-3 vindi vs a plat 2-3 willbender. The willbender will be 10x easier to kill.

I can argue SD thief is overtuned. The damage of some skills hit like a truck even without crit strikes. And if played right you can live through most stuff and move around the map like a you're playing in godmode. But you wont see a gold 3 player making it look that way. 

Plat 2-3 is like 5% of the population, maybe even less. Fact is, for 95% of players, it is easier to do better on WB, and 9/10 vindis die in <10 seconds with very little damage done. I mean kitten, look at the forum now, there is a guy asking how to even heal on rev, valid question, the sustain is far from easy while also trying to do any meaningful damage. Do you see people asking for survival tips on WB/reaper? He also has not gotten an answer yet, where are all the vindi/herald mains???

Edited July 29 by Flowki.7194

[Hotride.2187]

5 hours ago, asket.5674 said:

Delulu rangers inc.

they already here

[Vancho.8750]

3 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Plat 2-3 is like 5% of the population, maybe even less. Fact is, for 95% of players, it is easier to do better on WB, and 9/10 vindis die in <10 seconds with very little damage done.

The leaderboard is like 0.5% of players at best, not p 2 3 people that are gold with games that can be on it.
The same statement applies to all professions, even the ones you deem op that are in all games, kitten warrior is kitten warrior and kitten necro is a kitten necro, they are even easier to down than vindi. People play them cause they think they can play them and can carry with it cause someone said they are self driving and OP and are food for the one maining the profession.

To be frank, the necro war being the meta is probably better for the game since the rest of the options for TF and sidenode are just egg timers of defensive cooldowns and there are definitely multiple broken builds better then them but the builds are not shared that much which is for the better. 

I agree that Condi Reaper should have stayed dead, cause it can dip onto too much defensives without losing too much damage and all the balancing kittens good balance on power reaper. For warrior it just needs some buffs and nerfs on the right places like maybe making FC just a burst skill that kind works like the Rev GS block for a second and half or something and it does damage based on the hits or damage taken and if you miss time it tough luck you do kitten all. The thing is if we hold these professions with multiple hoops to jump that require the other party to missplay, all profession should not get kitten if they miss, no free boons for spamming, longer cooldowns on easy to hit skills, shorter cc times on easy to hit skills, no free lunch.