Hoping for trait reworks for the expansion after Janthir

[FrozenEve.6875]

After the recent additions of Hammer, Pisol and Spear to the elementalist's arsenal, I'm starting to get tired of attunements being tied to the same niche - water and earth for sustain, fire and air for damage. It's boring at this point and I know it's because of the archaic set up of the elementalist's core traitline set up. 

For the expansion after Janthir, instead of another weapon, I'd love a wholesale rework of our trait lines and how they interact. GW1 seemingly had more ways to play an elementalist than in its current iteration in GW2. Sustain shouldn't be locked into just water and earth; damage shouldn't be locked into just fire and air. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Both Earth and Water have damage traits, though.  Heck, the current Scepter Tempest DPS build that everyone's using has Air/Water as a trait setup.  

[CafPow.1542]

2 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Both Earth and Water have damage traits, though.  Heck, the current Scepter Tempest DPS build that everyone's using has Air/Water as a trait setup.  

This and playing condi focused often uses fire/earth.

[draxynnic.3719]

Yeah, it's pretty much always been fire+earth for condi and fire+air for power, maybe sometimes working in arcane instead. And recent buffs to the damaging traits in water have made air+water work for power.

Fire also has sustain functions, particularly condi cleanse. So the only elemental trait that's currently pigeonholed is air always being damage.

[Panda.1967]

You do know that elementalist isn’t the only profession they designed the specs in this way for right? The general design for all traits is that 1 spec will be for the core mechanic, 1 will be support, 1 is defense, 1 is power and 1 is condition. Some professions have a few traits that are a blend of multiple of these. This is just how they were designed… everyone is shorhorned into specs for different build types the exact same way.

Guardian:
Zeal - Power
Radiance - Condition
Valor - Defense
Honor - Support
Virtues - Core

Revenant:
Corruption - Condition
Retribution - Defense
Salvation - Support
Invocation - Core
Devastation - Power

Warrior:
Strength - Power
Arms - Condition
Defense - Defense
Tactics - Support
Discipline - Core

Engineer:
Explosives - Power
Firearms - Condition
Inventions - Defense/Support
Alchemy - Support/Conditon
Tools - Core

Ranger:
Marksmanship - Power
Skirmishing - Condition
Wilderness Survival - Defense
Nature Magic - Support
Beastmastery - Core

Thief:
Deadly Arts - Condition
Critical Strikes - Power
Shadow Arts - Support/Defense
Acrobatics - Defense
Trickery - Core

Elemetentaliat:
Fire - Condition
Air - Power/Support
Earth - Defense/Conditon
Water - Support
Arcane - Core

Mesmer:
Domination - Power
Dueling - Defense/Power
Chaos - Condition/Defense
Inspiration - Support
Illusions - Core

Necromancer:
Spite - Power
Curses - Condition
Death Magic - Defense
Blood Magic - Support/Defense
Soul Reaping - Core

Edited August 14 by Panda.1967

[Jeyzer.1605]

Someone already pointed it in this forum earlier this week, but I really want to emphasize how bad Ele traits feel. Too many of them are tied to a specific element, on a class that's forced to swap element every few seconds. Many classes have conditional damage buff, but the condition itself can be always attained, or attained in specific circumstances. 

For comparison, Mesmer's power Virtuoso would be like: Domination 2-2-1 Dueling 1-3-1 Virtuoso 2-2-2. Nothing is mutually exclusive. You have some illusion damage increase, some player % damage increase, conditional on enemy HP / CC, distance threshold on Virt, and even Fencer's Finesse can increase Spear / GS damage due to the buff. 

Meanwhile for Ele, if you run Fire 1-3-1, Air 3-2-1, and whatever third spec that isn't completely garbage at the moment, you have quite a few things that are mutually exclusive. You lose a lot of power from being outside of Fire, but you also lose on Ferocity for not being in Air. 

You also lose the 25% movespeed increase, which feels awful to lose, whenever you go out of Air. Other classes with a conditional ms increase trait like Warrior's Sprint keep it as long as you're wielding a melee weapon, which you can easily keep 100% of the time. You can't stay 100% of the time in Air without nuking your damage to the ground.

There are too many multipliers that are tied to specific element, and it feels pretty bad since you lose them anytime you swap. 

2 hours ago, Panda.1967 said:

Thief:
Deadly Arts - Condition
Critical Strikes - Power
Shadow Arts - Support/Defense
Acrobatics - Defense
Trickery - Core

Elemetentaliat:
Fire - Condition
Air - Power/Support
Earth - Defense/Conditon
Water - Support
Arcane - Core

Mesmer:
Domination - Power
Dueling - Defense/Power
Chaos - Condition/Defense
Inspiration - Support
Illusions - Core

Focusing on those three because they are the ones I main, and what you're saying about them isn't accurate. Haven't looked at the other ones you mentioned in detail. 

For thief, Deadly Arts is both power and condi. Acrobatics also have significant power buffs (Equilibrum + Fluid Strikes). 

For Ele, Fire is both power and condi, as well as defense through a ton of condi cleanse + blind on burn. Air's only "support" is Zephyr's boon which is completely negligible. Water has huge power multipliers as well. 

For Mesmer, Dueling is as much condi as it is power. Duelist Discipline + Sharper Image + Ineptitude. 

And the main issue for Ele is that even if you don't spec into an element, you're meant to use it anyway. For others, they can buff 100% of their current kit through specs. 

Edited August 14 by Jeyzer.1605

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I don't think the issue are traitlanes enhancing "one role" ; as Panda said it's more or less the same for all classes, but  most of traitlanes enhancing almost exclusively one element, because it is stated clearly, or the conditions are too specific anyway (Burning on fire, immobilize on earth, Regen on water, etc)
Too many traits still punish you if you swap attunement. And e-specs can't find any common features to focus on, so they just fart "Power+Condi" modifiers or more auras.

They just need to delete  non-persistent traits,  to  find more gimmicks promoting the element no matter your current attunement.
You're a master of Fire element, which means you could inflict Burning when inflicting Chill/Cripple for example, or Flame Expulsion/Sunspot on all "Skill #3" etc.

 

Edit* may be position weapons a bit more in a role. Like they did with the "condi" pistol (even if it's trash tier) and scepter.
A bit sad to have Warhorn so prominent in every pve builds.

Edited August 14 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Panda.1967]

2 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

I don't think the issue are traitlanes enhancing "one role" ; as Panda said it's more or less the same for all classes, but  most of traitlanes enhancing almost exclusively one element, because it is stated clearly, or the conditions are too specific anyway (Burning on fire, immobilize on earth, Regen on water, etc)

This I can agree is a problem… how tightly Elememtalist traits are tied to their specific attunements is essentially the same as if every profession had all of its traits in one spec tied directly to a single weapon… the only profession that come close to having the same problem is Revenant… each of its specs are very closley tied to a single Legend, but unlike elementalist it doesn’t lose half of the benefits of one spec simply because it changed legends.

Edited August 15 by Panda.1967

[Jski.6180]

We are at the point where water trait line is better for dmg then fire trait line there are some issues or maybe traits that are for sure outdated.

Please rework air skills (not traits) most of them are empty cc only skill not dmg i think earth skills are better for dmg/cc effects now the air skills.

[Dadnir.5038]

More than focusing on the role of each tratiline, It would be great said traitline didn't have traits that focus on a single element. The arcane traitline could afford some tweaks as it isn't very popular for a class mechanic traitline. In comparison, many other professions are just glued to their main mechanic traitline (are elementalists lucky that they ain't or is it the opposite?)

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

19 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

We are at the point where water trait line is better for dmg then fire trait line there are some issues or maybe traits that are for sure outdated.

Please rework air skills (not traits) most of them are empty cc only skill not dmg i think earth skills are better for dmg/cc effects now the air skills.

 

Water is a better dps traitlane in a particular set-up.Which is nice IMO.
Scepter/Warhorn because you can't maintain persisting flame+ the buffs to shatterstone all those years (they knew), and trident, finally paid.
Anyway Air overload does 50% of the DPS, and you still need high APM, so you can play whatever you like, it won't really change the DPS for ordinary people, still it's nice to have a range weapon and water.

[draxynnic.3719]

10 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

We are at the point where water trait line is better for dmg then fire trait line there are some issues or maybe traits that are for sure outdated.

Please rework air skills (not traits) most of them are empty cc only skill not dmg i think earth skills are better for dmg/cc effects now the air skills.

I think it's just that particular build spends so little time in fire attunement that the fire traits end up having less effect than they would in a more typical power build. It's probably fair for fresh air builds to run something other than fire, while a more typical power build that mostly bounces between fire and air absolutely would run the fire traitline.

[Jski.6180]

11 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

Water is a better dps traitlane in a particular set-up.Which is nice IMO.
Scepter/Warhorn because you can't maintain persisting flame+ the buffs to shatterstone all those years (they knew), and trident, finally paid.
Anyway Air overload does 50% of the DPS, and you still need high APM, so you can play whatever you like, it won't really change the DPS for ordinary people, still it's nice to have a range weapon and water.

If you dont have a good fire field that you can up keep on an target then for the most part fire GM trite line will add no dmg or in some build do less dmg. That an real issues for an dps aimed line.

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

If you dont have a good fire field that you can up keep on an target then for the most part fire GM trite line will add no dmg or in some build do less dmg. That an real issues for an dps aimed line.

You are likely to have fire fields for extended periods on most elementalist builds, though, and even if you don't, there's Pyromancer's Puissance if you have faith in your (support's) ability to keep Might maxed out without it. FA tempest even technically has a fire field. Fire is fairly reliant on remaining in, well, fire, though, and has a bit of ramp time even though it's a power build, while water's damage bonuses seem to be a bit more reliable for a build that's spending most if its time in air.

[Jski.6180]

7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

You are likely to have fire fields for extended periods on most elementalist builds, though, and even if you don't, there's Pyromancer's Puissance if you have faith in your (support's) ability to keep Might maxed out without it. FA tempest even technically has a fire field. Fire is fairly reliant on remaining in, well, fire, though, and has a bit of ramp time even though it's a power build, while water's damage bonuses seem to be a bit more reliable for a build that's spending most if its time in air.

If the fire trait line had an fire field build in like it use to (down state lava faunt) i could see the dmg boost from fire fields being GM but with out an self contain effect on an trait line your simply missing out if you locking out builds (weapons and even eleit spec.) Fire trait line is missing dps GM even water trait line with its other effects of +300 vit the def chose still has some support ish effect but dose say blinding ash not have any dmg + effects even if they are just condi base.

There are very much out dated traits that anet NEEDS to update on the ele class.

[AliamRationem.5172]

A few suggestions for trait reworks:

Evasive Arcana now grants 5s vigor, radius increased to 240, and all effects are blast finishers.

Renewing Stamina no longer grants vigor.  Instead grants 3s regeneration on dodge and restores 15 endurance on successful evade.  

Elemental Lockdown replaced with Arcane Aegis.  Grants boons to allies at 240 radius for 5s based on attunement when completing a blast combo:  Fire = resistance, water = regeneration, air = resolution, earth = protection.

Pyromancer's Puissance no longer removes might stacks.

[Liewec.2896]

On 8/15/2024 at 4:41 PM, Jski.6180 said:

We are at the point where water trait line is better for dmg then fire trait line there are some issues or maybe traits that are for sure outdated.

Please rework air skills (not traits) most of them are empty cc only skill not dmg i think earth skills are better for dmg/cc effects now the air skills.

would especially like staff reworks for air.

air 1 would be way cooler as a bigger version of scepter 1 (maybe with chaining?)

i'd merge 2 and 3 together into one skill to make room for a lightning storm skill.

and windbourne speed could make a short duration whirlwind around the caster that destroys projectiles.

staff ele just feels very forgotten when it comes to DPS specs, which is sad,

because i think when most people come into the game and pick ele, they are doing so because they want the arch-typical fantasy mage wielding a staff.

noone picks the mage class to be pushed into melee with swords, hammers and daggers.

[Twilightmage.8309]

ranged tempest overload trait please

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

I've always wanted Elemental Bastion to replace Gale Song now that Gale Song is a redundant and useless trait. And the Grandmaster trait where Elemental Bastion was could be replaced with a ranged Overload trait.

[NayNay.7680]

If a dev reads any post on the forum I hope it's this one. Traits need a go-over quite badly for many reasons already presented here. Elementalist deserves the same attention the other professions get and I'm afraid multiple angles of a freeze frame of an elementalist in the air in the preview trailer does not in any way mean this has been accomplished.

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Liewec.2896 said:

air 1 would be way cooler as a bigger version of scepter 1 (maybe with chaining?)

Wouldn't want the channelling, but I think they could turn it into an actual lightning bolt rather than a projectile. They had the technology for a bouncing non-projectile with a lightning graphic back in GW1, so it shouldn't be too hard...

[Jski.6180]

5 hours ago, Liewec.2896 said:

would especially like staff reworks for air.

air 1 would be way cooler as a bigger version of scepter 1 (maybe with chaining?)

i'd merge 2 and 3 together into one skill to make room for a lightning storm skill.

and windbourne speed could make a short duration whirlwind around the caster that destroys projectiles.

staff ele just feels very forgotten when it comes to DPS specs, which is sad,

because i think when most people come into the game and pick ele, they are doing so because they want the arch-typical fantasy mage wielding a staff.

noone picks the mage class to be pushed into melee with swords, hammers and daggers.

Air staff and mostly of the other air skills on other weapons lack dmg. There too much cc on air skill that has comply over taken any air base dmg out side of trait lines.

[Liewec.2896]

21 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Air staff and mostly of the other air skills on other weapons lack dmg. There too much cc on air skill that has comply over taken any air base dmg out side of trait lines.

i dunno, staff has the pretty nice stun circle on a 30 second cooldown, but then they just have a small push on a 25 second cooldown.

meanwhile hammer/mace on other classes can be used to put out a ton of damage while also stunlocking enemies.

i don't think "it has cc" should be a reason for staff to not get nice damage using air, currently the only good air DPS build is spamming overload up close.

[Jski.6180]

3 minutes ago, Liewec.2896 said:

i dunno, staff has the pretty nice stun circle on a 30 second cooldown, but then they just have a small push on a 25 second cooldown.

meanwhile hammer/mace on other classes can be used to put out a ton of damage while also stunlocking enemies.

i don't think "it has cc" should be a reason for staff to not get nice damage using air, currently the only good air DPS build is spamming overload up close.

But air is an dps and cc atument there is no real dmg on air staff. That an real issues. Earth on staff is an better dps set of skills water is too. Air on staff is nearly a pure utility support atument and its just silly how simply devoid of effects there is on staff for air atument. A lot of ele skills mostly air are worthless for doing dmg. The only thing that makes air an "DPS" effect is its trait line and its trait line alone. If you swaped air and earth trait lines over all staff would be an better wepon. Must like how fire trate line is comply out done for dmg by water trait line.

Things on ele no longer line up for there given atument. They not line up for some time.

Is fire condi or power dmg and if its both why dose it seem fire an condi base effect help scalne power dmg?

Is earth an cc/support trait line but why dose it have so much bleed and self def that dose not carry over to other ppl?

Is water an support/healing trait line why dose it have so much dmg and seems to lack the same level of support that you see on fire clears / boons?

Is air an cc/dmg line that has NO cc on its trait line all dmg and NO dmg on its skills all cc.

There a LOT that needs to be redone on traits for ele.

[Reijii.1642]

We've had the “conjurer” trait stuck in our fire specialization for ages, and you're talking about some global rebalances and redesigns. 😉