build/gear help - tired of always lying on the floor in Janthir

[murmur.8179]

Hello,

I've been playing Elementalist since HoT era. Tempest specifically since PoF. Full Berzerker gear. Don't currently play any other alts, so not overly familiar with other classes.

I mostly just do open world PVE content, little bit of WvW.

I know Elementalist is supposed to be a glass cannon, but I don't mind being quick to dodge out of the way, etc.

Unfortunantely, since Janthir, I find myslf lying on the ground constantly, especially on the second map (Janthir Syntri).

I've tried swapping in a couple of pieces of Celestial gear, but it doesn't seem to have helped. I can still get one-shot by world bosses, and even in some of the story instances it sometimes feels impossible to outheal the ambient DPS.  On top of that, I don't feel like I'm dishing out a huge amount of damage either.  All glass, no cannon...!

How are other Elementalists finding it? And any advice?

Should try out a different build, maybe switch to full Celestial?

Failing that, suggestions of a class and build that's less of a pain?  Guardian or Necromancer maybe? Open to suggestions.

Thanks!

[Minax.3284]

I'm not having much of an issue on the meta fresh air tempest build, just switching between berserker and celestial depending on if I'm fighting champions or just normal mobs and running Armour of Earth as an utility skill. Most mobs melt in no time. The DPS loss from going to full celestial in the open world is mostly negligible however, and you'll be gaining some healing power on top of extra health and toughness which should definitely make a difference in your survivability. If you're still having lots of health issues, be sure to grab a high tier jade bot. You can also switch out a bunch of the offensive traits for more utility or slot earth for passive damage reduction. Keep in mind that some of the boss attacks in Janthir even one-shot me on my 25k+ health classes, so there's definitely some avoid-or-die moves.

The only thing that I find a bit frustrating on tempest compared to some of the other classes I've taken to Janthir is the amount of conditions on those new mobs. You don't have a lot of reliable condi cleanse without switching half your build around, which I don't really wanna do.

Can't really link builds right now due to the API being down, but the build I'm running is just this:

Air 3- 3-2

Water  2-3-3

Tempest 3-1-1

with Signet of Fire, Feel the Burn and Armour of Earth

Run in with air, overload, go to water, wait for fresh air to proc to swap back to air attunement, rinse and repeat. :)

(You can use skills #2 and #3 in air while channeling your overload, as they have no cast time.)

Edited August 22 by Minax.3284

[luigrein.8514]

I feel like they don't actually have that many conditions, what they do have is an abundance of boon corruption.  I won't swear my non scientific impression is accurate though.  That said as far as cleansing goes, it's not a great heal from a dps standpoint since it's channeled, but ether renewal is really good at cleansing conditions if that's the thing typically getting you.  Bonus it's a core heal so you can use it on any spec. I've been running a very similar fresh air build (I miss my boon cata lol) but I did swap to scepter/warhorn because in bigger fights it felt like the etching was just getting filled with "don't stand here" zones. Utility wise I've been running aftershock (aegis), eye of the storm (stun break) and arcane wave (CC) but I wouldn't say any of those locked in slots if others suit you more.  I've also been running the new relic of zakiros (lifesteal on crits while you have fury) and it does pretty well for healing back incidental damage but it won't replace your heal skill when you're under real pressure. As a final suggestion the summon elemental elite in water is a decent heal and CC while it's out if you find yourself needing it.

[Jeyzer.1605]

4 hours ago, murmur.8179 said:

All glass, no cannon...!

Welcome to Elementalist I guess

[ippy.9048]

I'm a core Elementalist,

with Dragon's gear,
Fire: 3-3-2,
Air: 3-2-1,
Arcane: 2-2-2,
and my utilities are Signet of Fire, Arcane Shield, and Signet of Air.

Basically, I cast #3 immediately, follow up with #4, and then land #2. Most enemies go down with this combo.

Avoid using #5 unless there's a very clear opportunity.

In close combat, use Air or Earth to immobilize the enemy and finish them off while the shield is active. Without Signet of Air, you probably won't survive.

 

Additionally, Signet of Fire is also essential. You need to achieve a critical hit with a fairly high probability (over 50%), otherwise, it won't work. A power class that can't land critical hits is just not viable.

The reason I chose the Dragon Set is because, without enough health, you die quickly. Additionally, I'm using Wurm Runes for Power and Ferocity, with a critical damage bonus of 249%. 

 

My back item is Legendary, while the rest are Exotic.

 

Edited August 23 by ippy.9048
add new lines

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

The new relic of river (alacrity/regen) works with the water trait, which is nice for condi cleanse (particularly with new mobs). And alacrity is nice for elementalist overall, even better for weaver.
Something like water/arcane/weaver with a mix of celestial and marauder or vipere could be fun, but a bit demanding (dodges, "active" defenses...). http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGAFgEFbYZGMJGEmJm8WavUA-DSRYVBLGNsRQ9AoC-e

Tempest is really nice, but yeah you're litteraly free to kill while overloading, and it does not "burst" damage, you have some delay for air or fire overload to do the full damage. Might not be the best class to roam alone and kill random mobs, but great for group event.
Jade bot core helps a lot too; +2k hp.

[Juniper.8197]

Look up and utilize Open World build, which sacrifices DPS for survivability, instead of Group Content builds.

[Atoclone.4810]

On 8/22/2024 at 11:42 PM, murmur.8179 said:

Hello,

I've been playing Elementalist since HoT era. Tempest specifically since PoF. Full Berzerker gear. Don't currently play any other alts, so not overly familiar with other classes.

I mostly just do open world PVE content, little bit of WvW.

I know Elementalist is supposed to be a glass cannon, but I don't mind being quick to dodge out of the way, etc.

Unfortunantely, since Janthir, I find myslf lying on the ground constantly, especially on the second map (Janthir Syntri).

I've tried swapping in a couple of pieces of Celestial gear, but it doesn't seem to have helped. I can still get one-shot by world bosses, and even in some of the story instances it sometimes feels impossible to outheal the ambient DPS.  On top of that, I don't feel like I'm dishing out a huge amount of damage either.  All glass, no cannon...!

How are other Elementalists finding it? And any advice?

Should try out a different build, maybe switch to full Celestial?

Failing that, suggestions of a class and build that's less of a pain?  Guardian or Necromancer maybe? Open to suggestions.

Thanks!

What are you currently using? 

If power I'd suggest starting full celestial and swapping out bits for zero till you find your sweet spot. 

If you're doing fresh air like most bin the water line and swap for fire with smothering aura. Those condis will hurt so cleansing them is important and you'll do this each time you get an aura. Pay attention to combos, Leap in a field to get an aura.

Keep in mind most build sites are for group play so presume you've someone else supporting you. For open world you need to be self reliant so swapping out DPS for survivability is important. Doesn't matter how big your numbers are if you get 2 hits in then die.

 

[willow.8209]

you can even try a roaming build, but might like to swap out some of the movement skills/traits to something better for open world

If you do want to try a different class, a recent thread where people said what class was good for survivability and some other requirements is here
Self-healing class for hard solo or duoing - Professions - Guild Wars 2 Forums 

 

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 8/22/2024 at 6:42 PM, murmur.8179 said:

Should try out a different build, maybe switch to full Celestial?

I don't Ele because arthritis, but I'd suggest both of these. The bears and everyone else keep droning on about how Janthir is an unforgiving place, and for the most part they're right.

If you're too glassy, you will probably have a harder time in JW than other maps, especially if you're not running with a group to provide boon support.

Since they're planning on making an OW raid/strike/convergence kind of mass event in a coming release, I'd say the idea is probably to nudge people toward upgrading their OW builds ahead of time. The old saw that "OW is so easy you can do anything you want with any build and have no problems" is probably in the cross-hairs here.

Edited August 29 by Teknomancer.4895
added last paragraph, wasn't done yet!

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I haven't bought JW yet, but there's the stock advice I give to most players.  You can always go for more defenses in the utility and trait department.  Use glyph of storms (for standstorm), arcane shield, aftershock, cleansing fire for condis, armor of earth for protection/stability, lightning flash to get out Dodge, Signet of Earth for more damage reduction, etc.  The times where I have to change gear is rare, since most situations are handled with changing utilities and the tactics.  There's some traits you can change, but realistically relic of Zakiros is all you'll need on a power build.

I do wonder how you're getting one shot.  The water/air build sits at 16,995 health and has super-protection that reduces incoming damage to 60% of what it would've been.  Anything made with peppercorn reduces that to just 54%.  If these enemy attacks are slamming down 33k damage in a single hit, then they're either meant to be dodged or there's mechanical failure here, as nothing is meant to survive that.  

[AliamRationem.5172]

8 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I haven't bought JW yet, but there's the stock advice I give to most players.  You can always go for more defenses in the utility and trait department.  Use glyph of storms (for standstorm), arcane shield, aftershock, cleansing fire for condis, armor of earth for protection/stability, lightning flash to get out Dodge, Signet of Earth for more damage reduction, etc.  The times where I have to change gear is rare, since most situations are handled with changing utilities and the tactics.  There's some traits you can change, but realistically relic of Zakiros is all you'll need on a power build.

I do wonder how you're getting one shot.  The water/air build sits at 16,995 health and has super-protection that reduces incoming damage to 60% of what it would've been.  Anything made with peppercorn reduces that to just 54%.  If these enemy attacks are slamming down 33k damage in a single hit, then they're either meant to be dodged or there's mechanical failure here, as nothing is meant to survive that.  

I don't know about 1 shot kills, but a common issue with the new enemies in JW is boon corruption.  Almost every class generates frequent might, which corrupts into constant weakness.  So half of your attacks are half damage and you generate 50% less endurance.  Longer fights, fewer dodges, and that protection you were relying on gets converted into vulnerability.  

You can bring cleanses, but you still lose your boons and unless your cleanses are frequent passive sources it's only going to keep those conditions off of you some of the time.  

Add to that lots of area denial and the enemy's mobility and fights tend to take longer than you expect from trash mobs as they're pretty effective at slowing your offensive roll.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

the game isnt consistent across core/expacs. the current trend has spongier enemies that often last long enough to hit you a few times with weaker attacks that arent really worth dodging individually. not only that, but the game likes to swarm you with them, stacking on the pressure

the weakness and prot spam doesnt make it friendly for the "kill them before they kill you" approach either. some of the mobs in janthir apply ~8s weakness on every single attack (no corruption needed) and generate so much prot they reach the 30s cap within seconds. they also like move around a lot for no apparent reason (unsurprisingly, ele isnt so great at those). dont expect to be easily bursting down trash that isnt already nearly dead

world bosses have also changed in that they favor lots of difficult-to-avoid damage that make healers essentially mandatory if anyone wants to concentrate on doing damage. this makes it somewhat awkward to consider as players are not entirely responsible for their own survival anymore (outside the big avoidable attacks ofc)

running a glasscannon ele in janthir is still very feasible, but id advise approaching encounters thinking a little less about damage and making sure you can heal back whatever damage you take

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Yeah, the new maps are asking for a different approach ; mobs with  long leaps/mobility, protection/resolution/aegis/blocks, condi spam or the aoe boon corrupt.
Yet, many classes can still travel maps and jump into the mix headlong, because they have the boonspam to easily refull the boon bar, they have boonrip, they have the condi cleanse in the "dps" rotations or traitlanes, they have the weapon swap for range/melee... For example with dps DH or reaper I can facetank the group of vets and elites in the Sulfur aera... This isn't "high level" OW neither.

But the positive element for elem : spear shouldn't be actually that bad compared to melee weapons. 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I finally did the janthir  exploration with elementalist and lanspear :
It's just better to spam 1+2 in OW than trying to do the full gimmick thing. I was trying to kill random mobs with Etching + 4235, how many times they ruined my rotation and "grand final" by random weakness or protection application, or titans by dodging with their long leaps.
Plus I don't really enjoy to spend longs minutes trying to get some balance between survivability and DPS in traits and gears, and in the end just play full BS/cleanse/stab and no diversity in gameplay. Because you're still a squishy elementalist and lanspear has no sustain in kit.
So I ended Janthir Syntri with sword condi weaver, at least it has some burst.

Oh, and I forgot how Pyromancer's Puissance was trash. Not only you lose mights, but you have to wait 10 seconds for Fire to be available again. Insane.
I did almost all classes in Pve and wvw, and elementalist is my possibly my worst experience. But not only because of Spear on itself.

Edited September 1 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Codename T.2847]

4 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

I finally did the janthir  exploration with elementalist and lanspear :
It's just better to spam 1+2 in OW than trying to do the full gimmick thing. I was trying to kill random mobs with Etching + 4235, how many times they ruined my rotation and "grand final" by random weakness or protection application, or titans by dodging with their long leaps.
Plus I don't really enjoy to spend longs minutes trying to get some balance between survivability and DPS in traits and gears, and in the end just play full BS/cleanse/stab and no diversity in gameplay. Because you're still a squishy elementalist and lanspear has no sustain in kit.
So I ended Janthir Syntri with sword condi weaver, at least it has some burst.

Oh, and I forgot how Pyromancer's Puissance was trash. Not only you lose mights, but you have to wait 10 seconds for Fire to be available again. Insane.
I did almost all classes in Pve and wvw, and elementalist is my possibly my worst experience. But not only because of Spear on itself.

Yea, spear would only work if it nuked every mob out of existence, save for champs and leggies. As it stands now I personally play sceptet/focus for power or pistol/focus cele Weaver if I wanna solo big bosses with little to no problem ^^

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 9/1/2024 at 8:20 AM, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

I finally did the janthir  exploration with elementalist and lanspear :
It's just better to spam 1+2 in OW than trying to do the full gimmick thing. I was trying to kill random mobs with Etching + 4235, how many times they ruined my rotation and "grand final" by random weakness or protection application, or titans by dodging with their long leaps.
Plus I don't really enjoy to spend longs minutes trying to get some balance between survivability and DPS in traits and gears, and in the end just play full BS/cleanse/stab and no diversity in gameplay. Because you're still a squishy elementalist and lanspear has no sustain in kit.
So I ended Janthir Syntri with sword condi weaver, at least it has some burst.

Oh, and I forgot how Pyromancer's Puissance was trash. Not only you lose mights, but you have to wait 10 seconds for Fire to be available again. Insane.
I did almost all classes in Pve and wvw, and elementalist is my possibly my worst experience. But not only because of Spear on itself.

Yeah, I can't believe Pyromancer's Puissance still makes us pay the might tax.  That just doesn't make sense anymore with might given out so freely to other classes.

[Bleikopf.2491]

28 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Yeah, I can't believe Pyromancer's Puissance still makes us pay the might tax.  That just doesn't make sense anymore with might given out so freely to other classes.

Worst part is that it didn't use to do that. It's the Flame Expulsion eating the might. It used to just tick out before. 

[gousgou.5438]

I am a little late to the party but here is what I am using lately for open world play on elementalist (tempest):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGAFgE1aYZEMG2GjjRijqjVbD-DyIY1on/MiTFEiUQhHDYh3bAoC-e

You can go ranged with the second weapon set, you have a lot of boon generation, 2+4 stun breakers, stability on demand, massive condi cleansing ability for those annoying mobs in Janthir (plus you can cleanse other people in events by blasting fields) and for massive boss fights/convergences you can swap "Transcendent Tempest" for "Lucid Singularity" and cover alacrity on your group.

Tested in open world solo, open world bosses (Janthir, Teq, Shatterer, 3x wyrms etc), rift hunting (T1 to T3), CM convergences, strikes, low fractals (T1 & T2) and world completion (LOL). 

The only thing I miss a bit from time to time is boon removal (but since I get enough damage output as power and condi myself I can deal with mobs protection and resolution easily enough).

Edited September 11 by gousgou.5438
Do not try to use spear with this build!!!

[Coldtart.4785]

Just use the zakiros relic.

[Shaman.2034]

One thing you could do is to take a simplified ranged glass build, which allows you to focus more on practicing your damage avoidance without building a reliance on passive tankiness. Despite elementalist seeming to "do everything" with its 4-attunement design, I find it to be one of the worst users of Celestial stats anyway. This is because the same attunement mechanic that looks like it helps you do everything, actually forces you to specialize from one moment to the next. When you're in Fire, you're not healing yourself at all. When you're in Water, you're not doing any damage at all. When you're in Air, you're not doing any condition damage, and so on. This is very different from all other classes, which can use every stat from Celestial all of the time.

Let's look back at the beginning of GW2 for inspiration. By far the most popular way to play elementalist in open world PvE was the campfire staff build. This was a glass power DPS build that spent the vast majority of its time in Fire Attunement only. Back then, it was a massive drop in damage for a staff wielder to leave Fire Attunement, but you would do so situationally for the utility that other attunements provided. In summary:

Fire Staff Elementalist (ca. 2014)

Pros:

• Very simple to play, mostly Lava Font and Fireball, so you can focus mostly on avoiding enemy attacks
• Long range (1200) which grants a significant buffer of safety and flexibility
• Good AoE damage

Cons:

• Loses a lot of damage when targets move out of Lava Font / Meteor Shower
• Loses a lot of damage when switching attunements for utility
• Burst damage on single target depends on hitbox size
• All damage sources take a long time from when you press the button until they actually do damage

You can still somewhat play fire staff today, but it comes up short with self-Fury generation, so it's no longer what I consider to be a "viable" open world build. You can play a more complex version of fire staff using Catalyst, with the trait that grants Fury when you switch attunements, and use the Spheres to shore up your damage outside of Fire. But this sacrifices the simplicity and reactivity of the original fire staff build, because now you have to use your other attunements as part of your damage rotation instead of saving them for situational applications.

But there is a new build that captures a lot of the same features that fire staff did, while eliminating some of its weaknesses:

Air Spear Catalyst

Yes, that's right: not just a spear build that stays in one attunement, but a spear Catalyst build that stays in one attunement!

This build spends all of its time in Air while it's doing damage. It has plenty of Fury uptime between the Air Etching and Raging Storm, along with >40% boon duration (only ~15% boon duration is needed for 100% Fury uptime in this way, but extra duration is great for more Might stacks). Might stacks come from the Strength sigil and food, and it can maintain 18-20 stacks on average, so long as it's constantly hitting stuff.

Don't think of Catalyst as a boon generator here. We take the Quickness trait mostly for the radius increase. You use the Air Sphere offensively, for a very large AoE damaging skill. Your priority is to throw it on enemies first. Since Spheres are instant cast spells, they're great for quickly charging Etchings. As a bonus, splashing boons on other players is a great way to guarantee gold event participation!

Unlike the old fire staff build, air spear can switch attunements to do other stuff without losing a ton of damage. This is especially true for Catalyst builds, which have Spheres in all four attunements to smooth out your DPS. But unlike fire staff, switching attunements is not required - it's only something you need to do for utility, such as to heal yourself up to full in Water.

The Water healing combo is quite powerful, by the way. Simply swapping to Water, casting the Etching, and then Arcane Brilliance immediately heals you for 7,460 because of the combo and Arcane Brilliance's combo bonus. You also get 1 charge toward finishing the Etching. Casting the Water Sphere while you cast Arcane Brilliance means you only need to cast 1 more skill to have Jökulhlaup ready to go, for another 5,255 healing and a big chunk of damage. Meanwhile, standing in the Etching heals you for 532 when it's created and each second thereafter, for potentially 4,256 more health. If you need condi cleanse or an escape while you're there, Ripple can be the 3rd skill you cast to charge the Etching. And you can repeat this combo every 20 seconds.

You can't get back into Air right away, but that's okay, because Fire and Earth both deal good damage while you wait!

Finally, spear has the most synergy with Elemental Celerity out of any elementalist weapon. You could justify using Elemental Celerity in any attunement to cast the Etching combo twice, though using it for a quick second Derecho is probably the most common thing you'll do with it.

Pros:

• Simple to play, you only need to be familiar with using the Air Etching
• Long range (1200) which grants a significant buffer of safety and flexibility
• Great AoE damage
• Doesn't lose damage by swapping attunements for situational utility
• Damage happens much faster than staff skills
• CC included with your damaging skills

Cons:

• Less overall utility than staff
• More complicated than staff even in just Air Attunement
• Still loses some damage on moving targets

TL;DR: Spear Catalyst that camps Air Attunement

[Papaj.9035]

The boon corruption is the big killer...considering boons (and in the old days good access to combo fields and finishers) are what make an Elementalist half viable anyway. When those get stripped you're basically worthless in terms of damage and survivability/sustain. The corruption into weakness is icing on the cake since Ele skills are the literal slowest in the game in almost every weapon and in general weaker coefficient wise. Fighting the Janthir titan mobs, regardless of Vet/Elite/Champ is basically like fighting a Necromancer in WvW....except without getting chain feared and 15 stacks of every condition on you in 2 seconds from Corrupting Feast and their broken Harbinger/Scourge Death Shroud skills.

 

Edit: The constant mobility and running away of everything is also a crutch...other classes have way more mobility to chase things while still doing damage and have more access to stronger knockdowns/pulls/disables. So if you're relying on fields or something like Pyro Vortex to hit and just stack damage on a tight area, you're in for a world of disappointment.

Edited Monday at 07:54 PM by Papaj.9035

[Mystiz.8795]

One sentence solution - Look up Lord Hizen on youtube and copy his build. 

He is known for creating builds for the hardest solo PVE content.