Why no stories about Playable Races in new expansions?

[wolfof.1842]

22 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

And any future threat, let's say hypothetically some threat emerges and attacks Kryta. Kryta will respond with it's own forces and figure out what's going on before they put in a call to the alliance, as they'd want a detailed report of what's going on. Then the others mobilize and move in. 

I still can't imagine what Kryta forces defense look like today:

• Divinity's Reach: has huge walls, magical shield, but nothing like cannons point outwards?
• Seraph: normal soldiers
• Watchknights: how many, we ever saw outside of Festival events?
• Ellen Kiel/Lionguard: have airship, but has it weapons? or just to evacuate people
• ...

Watchknights only used during Festival make it hard to judge abilities, because it all is about fun, grinding seasonal event in-game.

So what weapons does Kryta have, what defense...? I still have image of Shaemoor Garrison shooting with medieval catapults at centaurs...

[Imba.9451]

The Tyrian Alliance is basically Europe. Several countries loosely working together. There is always the chance of someone stepping out of the line, with Cantha being my first choice here (although, that being said, this is because I associate them with china).

The power creep you are trying to conjure here is not even a fraction of what we had with Aurene.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

5 hours ago, Imba.9451 said:

The Tyrian Alliance is basically Europe.

Its closer to the U.N. if anything.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

6 hours ago, wolfof.1842 said:

I still can't imagine what Kryta forces defense look like today:

• Divinity's Reach: has huge walls, magical shield, but nothing like cannons point outwards?
• Seraph: normal soldiers
• Watchknights: how many, we ever saw outside of Festival events?
• Ellen Kiel/Lionguard: have airship, but has it weapons? or just to evacuate people
• ...

Watchknights only used during Festival make it hard to judge abilities, because it all is about fun, grinding seasonal event in-game.

So what weapons does Kryta have, what defense...? I still have image of Shaemoor Garrison shooting with medieval catapults at centaurs...

Watchknights are seen throughout Lake Doric in LWS3... They also appear during the first instance siege on DR and take out a bunch of WM on their own.

Airships do have cannons, dozens on both sides in fact. But LA isn't part of Krytan nation - though Krytan nation no doubt has their own airships by now, given Lord Faren had a private one.

What weapons, what defense, I can't say you've been playing the game if you've not seen that they have advancements shown over the years beyond the core game.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

On 8/28/2024 at 7:34 AM, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I wouldn't say that what happened there qualifies as the ritual "working." The Ascalonian ghosts were unaffected, the Mists portal swallowed and extinguished Sohothin, Rytlock jumped in after it and was missing for a while, during which time he set the events of PoF in motion, devastating an already-oppressed Elonian continent even more. Yes, that ritual was totally working as intended.

Except its explicitly mentioned in the instance that Rytlock was successful at banishing many of the ghosts into the Mists. Which is why the charr agreed to go to the conference in the first place. It didn't get rid of ALL of them, but it did get rid of many of them.

On 8/28/2024 at 7:34 AM, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Honestly even "act first think later" Rytlock should have considered the possibility that just maybe the CTRL+Z (undo) ritual has to be performed where the thing to be undone actually happened: Ground Zero. But that apparently never occurred to anyone at the time.

The ancient documents rytlock found only said the ritual had to be done in "a place of power" not the place the ritual was originally cast. The Cellears were a place of power, and the ritual did work there, proving it doesn't NEED to be at ground zero.

On 8/28/2024 at 5:31 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

I suspect the reason they didn't get an invite is that the centaurs still appear to be primarily hostile, apart from the mostly pacifistic Dry Top centaurs which probably aren't a significant enough force to bother. Quaggans are mostly friendly, and largos are... suffice it to say that diplomacy appears to be possible and redirecting the largos to prey that are dangerous to the alliance would be useful.

Anet did mention in the past they had a Centaur Peace plot planned for IBS, and after that got cut along with the original back half of IBS, they almost did it in a DRM, but cut that because they felt like it was too big a story to tell in a DRM. I suspect Anet still want's to do that, and so they didn't just invite the Centaurs to the Tyrian Alliance right away so they could use a future story to bring them in like we're doing with the Lowland Kodan here.

Centaurs wouldn't be the focus of the xpack, and not enemies, but would play a role in it as making allies against some other issue.

Edited August 29 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Weindrasi.3805]

I agree with OP. While Janthir and the wizards are interesting, I'd rather have the racial politics that only get mentioned briefly, take center-stage. Or, at least, have a much bigger place in the overall story.

Like, I've been invested in the charr story for years. I want to SEE the charr coming to terms with a khan ur election. I want to see and hear the Flame Legion being integrated back into the other 3 legions. Are their cubs still required to join the Blood Legion fahrar? How are their women doing--how many want to be soldiers, verses how many refuse to & what social issues are those women wrestling with? How does Efram deal with lingering sexism among his Shaman Caste? 

As OP mentioned... what about the Ghosts of Ascalon? Rytlock was trying to undo the curse when he got sucked into the Mists before HoT... and that story was never concluded.

I also want to SEE, rather than hear, what's going on with Bangar and the Dominion. It's implied that Crecia, Malice, and Efram see eye to eye on many issues/are friends... but the new Iron imperator (I forget her name) is a possible antagonist. 

I'm sure there's a ton of asura, sylvari,, and norn fans out there who feel similarly about those races too

[EdwinLi.1284]

7 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Its closer to the U.N. if anything.

Yep, the Tyrian Alliance is basically this world's version of a United Nation.

Though as I said it is still very underfunded and very low on support right now because each Race and country are having personal issues they need to deal with first before they can actually invest in it properly.

First is the Sylvari being they are having issues with the Pale tree as her condition is getting worse and no one found a cure yet. Caithe hopes that the ancient knowledge of the Astral Ward may lead to a cure. Another is that their people are more scatterned now due to the identity crisis that Mordremoth left them. As a result a large amount of Sylvari have gone on a self discovery journey into the open world of Tyria and possibly into the lands we have not explored yet. If the Pale Tree is not healed than the Sylvari cannot provide proper support to the Tyrian Alliance. 

The Charr are about to hold the Trials for Bangar but at the sametime all the current leaders agree that a new Khan-Ur is needed to truely unite the Charr. Bangar still has supporters hiding among their people and the leadership for the Charrs are being put into question without a Khan-Ur uniting them. With the Titan's return this most likely may push the Charr to get a new Khan-Ur and may lead to Bangar's supporters to act so they can make him the new Khan-Ur by using the return of the Titans as a excuse for him to be the "right" leader the Charr needs. If a new Khan-Ur is not chosen that supports helping the other Races to establish a organization to help defend Tyria from large scale threats long term wise than the Tyrian Alliance cannot see any support from the Charr.

Asura is going through internal reorganization due to the return of Cantha into Tyria's politics. Their technology originates from Asura technology but has began to expand into common daily life use for everyone. The Asura not only see this as a challenge but also a example that they as a society have become stagnated by their policy to not share their technology with the other races. As a result they are now making new policies to sell and share their technology and even open up their colleges to other races. However, there is resistance happening in their own government by majority of the Asura Council to keep their old ways of not sharing their technology. They need to deal with their politics and get the Asura to change their way of life. Other wise no support for the Tyrian Alliance will happen because the Asura maintains their No Share to "inferior" races policies.

Cantha is dealing with internal issues as well from the Puritans. There is a strong resistance from them for opening up Cantha and they want Cantha to return to their isolation policy way of life again. If they are not dealt with than Cantha cannot invest any proper support into the Tyrian Alliance so they can help defend their country from long term threats from the Mist. This is obviously leading to a expansion where we focus on the northern side of Cantha that remained unexplored but we known since EoD that Puritans have been doing something there. 

The Norn are right now preparing for expeditions into the Northern Shiverpeaks to retake their old home land. They are also dealing with the remains of the Sons of Savnir as the small amount of survivors are losts and going through a identity crisis now Jormag is gone. They are more focused on retaking their old homeland now but they know the external threats from beings in the Mists can be a issue due to their history with the Mists through their connection with the Spirits. However, this a opportunity they have waited generations for so they are investing more into the upcoming Expedition into the North while hoping the small amount of support they have is enough to protect Tyria so they can focus more on reclaiming their old home. As a result they won't provide decent support until the Northern Shiverpeaks are reclaimed.

Elona has mostly gotten their politics together but they hope to start reconnecting to losts locations in Elona so they are preparing expedition teams into locations we have not explored yet. Braham plans to join so he can have some self discovery for his new job as the leader for Cragstead. With the Dragonbrand by Kralkatorrik now disappearing, they hope to retake homes they lost during Kralkatorrik's attack on Elona back in PoF. This a massive undertaking for Elona so they cannot support the Alliance properly until they finish their work back in Elona.

Edited August 30 by EdwinLi.1284

[draxynnic.3719]

You might be assuming a bit more... collective direction for the norn than is really present. I suspect it's less a case of calculated decision-making, and more that individual norn are making their own decisions, and more norn are interested in exploring the old homeland than the big picture.

11 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Watchknights are seen throughout Lake Doric in LWS3... They also appear during the first instance siege on DR and take out a bunch of WM on their own.

Airships do have cannons, dozens on both sides in fact. But LA isn't part of Krytan nation - though Krytan nation no doubt has their own airships by now, given Lord Faren had a private one.

What weapons, what defense, I can't say you've been playing the game if you've not seen that they have advancements shown over the years beyond the core game.

In addition to this, ArenaNet has a track record of friendly forces having more of a representative sample rather than showing their full range of capabilities ingame, because in practice most players don't really care what precisely their NPC allies are doing, unless it's explicitly related to a mechanic. We've seen Seraph warriors, guardians, engineers, and because it became a mechanic in Drizzlewood, mesmers. There are miniatures of a Seraph medic in light armour (might have been intended to be a monk, or might be an elementalist healer similar to the Priestesses of Dwayna) and an archer in medium armour (probably intended to be a ranger). The queen's champions that appeared during the first Jubilee also had a wide range of abilities. It's likely that the Krytan military has members of all the core professions, although some might be low in number - significant magical support has always been a component of human armies in the lore.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

8 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Yep, the Tyrian Alliance is basically this world's version of a United Nation.

Though as I said it is still very underfunded and very low on support right now because each Race and country are having personal issues they need to deal with first before they can actually invest in it properly.

Well, I think the larger issue is that its still new, like, "first week and we still haven't figure out all the rules" new. Every nation IRL is always going through SOMETHING. That doesn't really prohibit them from interacting with the U.N. in most cases.

[Kalavier.1097]

17 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Yep, the Tyrian Alliance is basically this world's version of a United Nation.

Though as I said it is still very underfunded and very low on support right now because each Race and country are having personal issues they need to deal with first before they can actually invest in it properly.

I would say less "They can't invest in it" and more of, especially going forward, each nation/group (Quaggan, Hylek, Skritt, etc) will have to be able to ensure their own safety. So you could easily turn and write in things that keep X group from directly interacting with whatever the plot is. Maybe the charr were exploring a new deep mine and accidentally found an old branded nest, so they are working to clean up that mess before it even reaches the surface. So on, so forth.

12 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

You might be assuming a bit more... collective direction for the norn than is really present. I suspect it's less a case of calculated decision-making, and more that individual norn are making their own decisions, and more norn are interested in exploring the old homeland than the big picture.

Well, Hoelbrek/the lodges in general have shown the Norn are changing and evolving over time culturally. They are seeing the benefits of strength in numbers and community.

Idunno how it's worded because of limited game time currently but it could be everything from Knut actively going "Hey, Bob's going up north beyond Bjora Marches, anybody wanna go with him? Could be dangerous!" to just a group of Norn ending up meeting up near Bjora and all nodding at each other "Going north?"

12 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

In addition to this, ArenaNet has a track record of friendly forces having more of a representative sample rather than showing their full range of capabilities ingame, because in practice most players don't really care what precisely their NPC allies are doing, unless it's explicitly related to a mechanic. We've seen Seraph warriors, guardians, engineers, and because it became a mechanic in Drizzlewood, mesmers. There are miniatures of a Seraph medic in light armour (might have been intended to be a monk, or might be an elementalist healer similar to the Priestesses of Dwayna) and an archer in medium armour (probably intended to be a ranger). The queen's champions that appeared during the first Jubilee also had a wide range of abilities. It's likely that the Krytan military has members of all the core professions, although some might be low in number - significant magical support has always been a component of human armies in the lore.

There are Seraph archers (Using medium armor, not the heavy armor npcs we see), Seraph Juggernauts, Seraph Heavy Guard, Seraph mage, and Seraph medic (also Seraph recruit)

I'd say the medic is probably a monk, as the Dwayna Priests/priestesses are monks or elementalists ingame. 

Likewise, we've seen some npcs using weapon combos we can't get. I think it was Lionguard and Vigil feature medium armor people using pistol+warhorn. 

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I'd say the medic is probably a monk, as the Dwayna Priests/priestesses are monks or elementalists ingame.  

Are there any around that actually use monk-like skills? Every time I've seen a Dwaynan priest or priestess in combat, they were throwing lightning orbs around.

Lorewise, we've been told that monks still exist (even if they're basically just guardians with less combat training) and therefore some of them should be, but seeing them in action is very different from deducing that they should exist.

[Kalavier.1097]

11 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Are there any around that actually use monk-like skills? Every time I've seen a Dwaynan priest or priestess in combat, they were throwing lightning orbs around.

Lorewise, we've been told that monks still exist (even if they're basically just guardians with less combat training) and therefore some of them should be, but seeing them in action is very different from deducing that they should exist.

Honestly, haven't seen many of the priests in combat if any personally. I just natively assuming monk for Dwayna priests that are explicitly acting as healers. But that's part of the whole "We see a limited view ingame of some forces" Such as Seraph Cavalry, which would be a thing as they do infact, have horses lol.

[wolfof.1842]

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

But that's part of the whole "We see a limited view ingame of some forces" Such as Seraph Cavalry, which would be a thing as they do infact, have horses lol.

Really come on, is that not just imagination... where do you get Seraph Cavlry from?

Some points about Seraphs:

• "patrols that struggle to keep roads free of bandit attacks and centaur raids."
• they are also the most beleaguered, struggling to maintain supplies and munitions for their soldiers.
• The highest rank in the Seraph is captain. At any given time, the queen has from five to ten captains in the Seraph

All of this does not sound like it is well equipped super army.

Much more like struggling, basic army of Kryta. They can have high numbers from population join, but probably most are just basic soldiers.

[voltaicbore.8012]

I think I get what OP is saying - they'd prefer to see core storylines expanded on in the... expansions. While some of the biggest threads for most races have been wrapped up (thanks to the demise of the dragons), there is still stuff about reclaiming Orr (referenced directly in a Janthir achieve), Malyck, the Ascalonian ghosts, and some other things that might be fun to get screen time.

While I don't share OP's exact desire to see those same core stories finally resolved, I am disappointed with a lost opportunity to really, truly depart from the inane direction we've been on for so long.

I can summarize GW2 story: "OMG! Look, a world-ending threat! We need - who would have guessed it - the Power of Friendship to win!" JW is shaping up to be more of this exact same narrative drivel.

Here's how it should have gone, imo:

1. Tyrian Alliance forms, thanks to the events of SotO (this actually happened in game, and I like it).
2. Tyrian Alliance decides to dispatch the Commander to Janthir; this conveniently explains how any commander of any background gets sent to Janthir  (this also happened, and I like it).
3. Commander shows up in Janthir, and hears about local threats (this happened in the form of us hearing about the "Strangers", and I like it).
4. The Strangers turn out to be a localized threat - they're dangerous, sure, but no huge evil mastermind with a grander "invade all of Tyria" plot; just a (potentially invasive species) creature that got a boost thanks to what's been going on (this clearly did not happen in JW, instead we got Titans).
5. We continue to pursue the core of whatever has turned these local threats more dangerous, parallel to learning more about the Mursaat/Bava Nisos (nooooope it's all about big evil scheming Titans now).
6. The big story boss is just the biggest, champion-version of the Strangers, and killing it (or on the path to killing it) we end up fixing the thing that keeps generating or empowering Strangers (in contrast the JW boss now has to be either the evil mastermind Titan, or a world-ending-threat-level villain puppetmastering them).

Disappointed as I might be with this direction, I'm okay with JW being the way it is. What actually bothers me is that Anet's continued inability to stop using "ermagerd world might end!" as a cheap ploy for attention means that they will likely never explore all those interesting story threads in a meaningful way. At this point, I'd rather have them pick up those threads in side story achievements, rather than keep waiting for them to get actual story treatment.

Edited August 31 by voltaicbore.8012

[Kalavier.1097]

34 minutes ago, wolfof.1842 said:

Really come on, is that not just imagination... where do you get Seraph Cavlry from?

Some points about Seraphs:

• "patrols that struggle to keep roads free of bandit attacks and centaur raids."
• they are also the most beleaguered, struggling to maintain supplies and munitions for their soldiers.
• The highest rank in the Seraph is captain. At any given time, the queen has from five to ten captains in the Seraph

All of this does not sound like it is well equipped super army.

Much more like struggling, basic army of Kryta. They can have high numbers from population join, but probably most are just basic soldiers.

Man, it's almost like you are cherry picking examples from literally the start of personal story when the Seraph are at one of their lowest points, and absolutely ignoring that we know there are various seraph types of soldiers, including royal guards and an entire unit dedicated to being deployed at Ebonhawke. And you are not even bothering to move an inch to think about the Seraph as of now, who have watchknights deploying alongside squads, they have airships, and they now have full support and aren't being sabotaged constantly by having their routes constantly being sold to the enemy.

Literally the first two points are EXPLICITLY CAUSED BY THE WHITE MANTLE SABOTAGE THAT IS DEALT WITH MOSTLY AFTER CAUDECUS IS PLACED IN "House arrest" BY BEING A GUEST AT JENNAH'S HOME, post Caudecus manor story dungeon.

The Seraph don't only have basic sword and shield soldiers. The Seraph have access to horses as mounts and beasts of burden pulling carriages or wagons. The idea of Cavalry isn't foreign to them. Hell, an insult about Centaurs is that Horses are for riding, not talking. 

So yes, it's entirely plausible the Seraph at full strength would have Cavalry mounted on horses, if not raptors and other mounts now as well. Confirmed? No, but it's incredibly within reason.

 

And even outside that speculation, you cannot use start of personal story Seraph at all to try to discuss what they may have available now, well beyond the personal story troubles.

 

edit; Also Seraph captain isn't like a RL army captain, A Seraph captain is in charge of a region's operations. It's almost more like a general in a basic sort of sense? Like Logan was the Captain in charge of DR, while another was in charge of all of Kessex Hills, etc.

Edited August 31 by Kalavier.1097

[wolfof.1842]

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

So yes, it's entirely plausible the Seraph at full strength would have Cavalry
The Seraph don't only have basic sword and shield soldiers. 
they have airships.
Confirmed? No, but it's incredibly within reason.
And even outside that speculation, you cannot use start of personal story Seraph at all to try to discuss what they may have available now, well beyond the personal story troubles.

See this is whole point of this thread. We don't really know about Kryta today. 

You say they were sabotaged constantly:
A sabotaged army have high losses, drain of resources and low morale from defeats. 

Second, you assume Kryta have infinite wealth/resources.
After they lose thousands soldiers, weapons, harvest from Centaur attacks: what does economy of Kryta look like?
Where they got all the money to buy 100 airships, expensive cavalry..?

Maybe they spend all resources left on "wonder weapon" Watchknights, and have nothing else. 
Because they are only thing confirmed in the story.

SotO information: 
Queen Jennah's watchknights are an outlier among semiautonomous constructs, designed by a single engineer with comparatively limited resources. 

Edited August 31 by wolfof.1842

[draxynnic.3719]

Pretty much every Seraph we see is wearing metal armour, unless there's a reason for them not to be. That's pretty well equipped by historical standards - the Romans managed that, but few others.

Random Krytan nobles can purchase airships. There'd need to be something seriously wrong for random nobles to be able to purchase airships for joyriding while the national military can't afford any. Probably not a hundred, but enough to make a difference.

There are enough watchknights that dozens of them are used in gladiatorial games once a year. Even if we presume the arena has some sort of enchantment that prevents actual damage from being done, that's still at least a substantial reserve that can be deployed in a pinch.

It's been the better part of a decade since Lake Doric. Nations recover. Lives lost are a bit harder to recover, but that goes both way - the centaurs don't have an infinite reserve of population either.

You're really reaching and cherrypicking the evidence to claim that the centaurs are still a major threat without bringing in some sort of gamechanger. They only got as far as they did through being Caudecus's catspaw while Caudecus was undermining the system from within. We might get a centaur truce arc at some point, but they could just revert to their default state for the past thousand years: raiding and making a nuisance for themselves and representing one of the dangers of the wilds, but not exactly a serious threat for Kryta on the whole.

11 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Honestly, haven't seen many of the priests in combat if any personally. I just natively assuming monk for Dwayna priests that are explicitly acting as healers. But that's part of the whole "We see a limited view ingame of some forces" Such as Seraph Cavalry, which would be a thing as they do infact, have horses lol.

There's at least one Dwayna priestess in the negotiations camp in Fields of Ruin you can draw into combat fairly easily - she throws lightning orbs around. It'd be entirely plausible for them to use water magic for healing and air magic when needed in combat.

'Course, they could also be something special that we can't replicate that combines a bit of air magic with monk magic. And Orb of Wrath was described as a ball of lightning in Sea of Sorrows, so a different lightning orb might still be part of a modern monk.

[wolfof.1842]

9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Pretty much every Seraph we see is wearing metal armour, unless there's a reason for them not to be. That's pretty well equipped by historical standards - the Romans managed that, but few others.

Random Krytan nobles can purchase airships. There'd need to be something seriously wrong for random nobles to be able to purchase airships for joyriding while the national military can't afford any. Probably not a hundred, but enough to make a difference.

There are enough watchknights that dozens of them are used in gladiatorial games once a year. Even if we presume the arena has some sort of enchantment that prevents actual damage from being done, that's still at least a substantial reserve that can be deployed in a pinch.

It's been the better part of a decade since Lake Doric. Nations recover. Lives lost are a bit harder to recover, but that goes both way - the centaurs don't have an infinite reserve of population either.

You're really reaching and cherrypicking the evidence to claim that the centaurs are still a major threat without bringing in some sort of gamechanger. They only got as far as they did through being Caudecus's catspaw while Caudecus was undermining the system from within. We might get a centaur truce arc at some point, but they could just revert to their default state for the past thousand years: raiding and making a nuisance for themselves and representing one of the dangers of the wilds, but not exactly a serious threat for Kryta on the whole.

It is true they have metal armor, but they have the material (ore) and production (blacksmith) available in their lands.
So most important things: swords, shields, armor they can create alone in war economy.

But, they don't have airship production at home.
I think you can find countries in real life too: just because rich people buy yachts, it don't mean country has navy with huge, expensive battleships. 

Nations can recover.. or fail:
Is Kryta a wealthy, rich nation? most is just farmlands, villages and swamps.
even Divinity's Reach was just hastily built and never had large scale defense weapons: cannons,...

What can Kryta produce, export, sell to other nations in Tyria?
They don't have much, other than what they need for own population, rebuild and defense

Edited September 1 by wolfof.1842

[Imba.9451]

2 hours ago, wolfof.1842 said:

Is Kryta a wealthy, rich nation? most is just farmlands, villages and swamps.

Ukraine is mostly farmland, too.

Quote

even Divinity's Reach was just hastily built and never had large scale defense weapons: cannons,...

DR has Jennah.

Jokes aside, this point has been adressed quite a bit. Also, going with your logic, the Sylvari would also be only armed with leaf-cushions and cabbages. Not every little piece of worldbuilding can be explored by the developers telling us the backstory of every treebranch (pun not intended) - thats where basic common sense comes into place. And going by Okkams Razor, it is highly unlikely that the Centaurs would cause any real harm to the Alliance - unless everyone else has their own fires to extinguish at the same time.

 

Edited September 1 by Imba.9451

[wolfof.1842]

2 hours ago, Imba.9451 said:

Ukraine is mostly farmland, too.

DR has Jennah.

Jokes aside, this point has been adressed quite a bit. Also, going with your logic, the Sylvari would also be only armed with leaf-cushions and cabbages. Not every little piece of worldbuilding can be explored by the developers telling us the backstory of every treebranch (pun not intended) - thats where basic common sense comes into place. And going by Okkams Razor, it is highly unlikely that the Centaurs would cause any real harm to the Alliance - unless everyone else has their own fires to extinguish at the same time.

 

Yes, it is also not seen as rich country in the world? with big difference of natural resources
...which Kryta does not have anything special.

I wanted to joke about it and say maybe they can sell miniature Queen Jennahs 😃 

Sylvari, I don't think they are strong in military too. Only connected with Mordremoth maybe?
But alone they don't have plant-airships or plant-tanks... like Asura, Charr.

The logic is simple:

• some nations in Tyria have strong military (Charr) or advance technology (Asura, Cantha). 
• other nations are average, struggling, surviving (Kryta) or still have to learn (Sylvari)

Kryta have Watchknights by a single engineer now. That is great, but don't mean they have everything what other nations have, too.
Airships, magitech cannons, tanks... are not "missing" in Kryta military because Anet have no time for story there.

They are missing because Kryta is a "poor" nation who just don't have all these weapons, resources.
Kryta was sabotaged, destroyed and struggled to survive. They have nothing special for trade or exchange with other nations.

That is how they wrote it: some nations are strong/wealthy, some are poor/weak.
It is basic storytelling and we don't need to imagine "everyone have money + advanced weapons" in Tyria.

Of course centaurs are not a threat for Alliance... nothing really is a threat for alliance, like I say it's too strong for everything. 

Edited September 1 by wolfof.1842

[Imba.9451]

56 minutes ago, wolfof.1842 said:

Yes, it is also not seen as rich country in the world? with big difference of natural resources
 

That wasn't my point, but I also did not want for this to get too political.

 

Overall, it feels to me that you watch the world of GW2 way too much through a race-lens, when the world of GW2 never really was that divided to begin with, unlike for example WoW. It's a world with different nations. Sometimes bickering. But not much more. And discussing wether or not Kryta has a strong military is ultimately discussion over smokescreens, for it currently does not matter anyway, even with everything suggesting they'd be more than capable to hold their own in a the globalized world that GW2 has become.

[wolfof.1842]

1 hour ago, Imba.9451 said:

Overall, it feels to me that you watch the world of GW2 way too much through a race-lens, when the world of GW2 never really was that divided to begin with, unlike for example WoW. It's a world with different nations. Sometimes bickering. But not much more. And discussing wether or not Kryta has a strong military is ultimately discussion over smokescreens, for it currently does not matter anyway, even with everything suggesting they'd be more than capable to hold their own in a the globalized world that GW2 has become.

It only don't matter anymore because Anet just says "everyone are friends now" after the Dragons are gone.

GW2 personal story made differences of races clear, unique traits, advantages... for example:

• Why should genius Asura inventors, who often act arrogant, superior, just give most advanced weapon technology to someone else?
  • without benefit for them, they have no reason to do this.
     
• Why should strict military Charr legions care about some plant people having random problem somewhere?
  • without benefit for them, they have no reason to do this.

They only all became ally (Pact) to solve world ending threat together: Elder Dragons. but they are gone. 

Now it is Alliance, everyone helps everyone again, all good guys are the same and fight together!
Because... why again? It really is not much variation, interesting story you could tell in Tyria.

Different nations, races have different interests, issues to solve. It offers so much to write about.

With globalized world for fantasy MMO setting.. communicators call everywhere all time.. alliance for everyone to lose identity.
Maybe there are some reasons why story is not really strongest point of GW2

Edited September 1 by wolfof.1842

[Imba.9451]

1 hour ago, wolfof.1842 said:

It only don't matter anymore because Anet just says "everyone are friends now" after the Dragons are gone.

 

They never were that divided to begin with. You are making the cultural differences bigger than they ever played out to begin with.
 

Quote

 

GW2 personal story made differences of races clear, unique traits, advantages... for example:

• Why should genius Asura inventors, who often act arrogant, superior, just give most advanced weapon technology to someone else?
  • without benefit for them, they have no reason to do this.
     
• Why should strict military Charr legions care about some plant people having random problem somewhere?
  • without benefit for them, they have no reason to do this.

 

 

Personal story, yes. That was at the beginning of GW2. And, I repeat: Expecting a whole race to all act and think alike is asking for bad storytelling imho. Different people from different races came to the conclusion that acting stupid is a bad idea.
 

Quote

 

They only all became ally (Pact) to solve world ending threat together: Elder Dragons. but they are gone. 

Now it is Alliance, everyone helps everyone again, all good guys are the same and fight together!
Because... why again? It really is not much variation, interesting story you could tell in Tyria.

 

 

Are you really asking everyone to be at each others throats just... because? The is no reason for that at the moment.

Quote

Different nations, races have different interests, issues to solve. It offers so much to write about.

Like survival and prosperity? Something better solved by working together? Without an inciting incident, there will not be any conflict between the races. An incident like Bangar for example. And that was just one person wwho affected a part of one race. I can not drop my disbelief hard enough to accept several incidents affected all the races at the same time. Thats not what Tyria was written into. You may dislike this, wich is fair enough, I also love me some conflict, but it's just not happening right now. As I said, the only thing I COULD see happening is Cantha being a bit TOO aspirational, as we do not know their leaders as well as we do the leaders of the other nations. But overall, conflicting parties returning to monkee seem highly unlikely. ESPECIALLY conflicting parties in regards to their races, as, overall, the world of Tyria seems way too intercultural at this point.

 

Quote

With globalized world for fantasy MMO setting.. communicators call everywhere all time.. alliance for everyone to lose identity.
Maybe there are some reasons why story is not really strongest point of GW2

If your main point of identity is race, then you have no identity.

I agree that the story of GW2 has an had problems (oh, there are so many threads about that), but I fail to see your reasoning for this being the case. To me, and corect me if I am grossly oversimplifying this, it seems like you want fun "Plant ppl vs Cat people" or "normal ppl vs horse people" or "goblin ppl vs tall ppl" storylines. Wich qould require to tone down the intelligent decisionmaking of characters to Braham-levels. It's the same reason why stories abou 1000 year long wars utterly fail to grab my intention, because it's just not realistic.

[wolfof.1842]

I think you misunderstand, I don't want playable races to fight like Charr vs Sylvari..

Just to let races deal with the own culture, history and conflicts.
Mini expansions are perfect for this, but it is not possible if all races are just "Alliance" and fight against "new world ending threat". 

1 hour ago, Imba.9451 said:

If your main point of identity is race, then you have no identity.

And what identity do they have now? "The good guys"?

It is a fantasy game with unique playable races.
Their identity start where they grow up, what they learn and what they do with it.

• Most Asura don't grow up in Black Citadel and join a Charr legion.
• Most Charr don't grow up in Rata Sum and study at Asura colleges.
• and Norn don't go to the Grove and try to be a plant.

If you take away origin, culture and development of characters, you don't have unique races anymore.
only "good side vs. big bad evil" which is same every time.

Edited September 1 by wolfof.1842

[Imba.9451]

1 hour ago, wolfof.1842 said:

Just to let races deal with the own culture, history and conflicts.

 

Thats the thing though: Things evolve. The chicken always only hatches once. And above all, GW2 has people with different origins. It`s up to you to dislike the mellowing of their cultural identity, but it is what it is. We are LONG past pure race-centric storylines.

 

Quote

 

Mini expansions are perfect for this, but it is not possible if all races are just "Alliance" and fight against "new world ending threat".

 

I kinda agree on the last part here. But "trading in "big bad" vs "small bad in regards to only one race" doesn't seem like a good solution here.

Quote

And what identity do they have now? "The good guys"?

"They", as in "the characters within the story" have the characterization the writers gave them.

 

Quote

 

It is a fantasy game with unique playable races.
Their identity start where they grow up, what they learn and what they do with it.

• Most Asura don't grow up in Black Citadel and join a Charr legion.
• Most Charr don't grow up in Rata Sum and study at Asura colleges.
• and Norn don't go to the Grove and try to be a plant.

 

You are being extremely hyperbolic here. It all comes down to globalization. It is, what it is.

 

Quote

If you take away origin, culture and development of characters, you don't have unique races anymore.
only "good side vs. big bad evil" which is same every time.

Yes, you have. Because defining people within a certain race by stereotypes creates flat, onedimensional characters.

And an antagonist can be more than an evil, mustache-twirling villain. Wait and see.

 

 

In essence, this whole thread boils down to: You didn't get what you want. Some of it, I can understand, others things I can't. And it's not to Anet to specifically cater to you or me. Heck, as I've said, I have been on the opposing side in regards to the story for years. Yet I stuck with the game. And you, too can decide wether this is for you or not. I dunno if the story will go into a direction you or me will like. But at the end of the day, we simply have very different outlooks on good anchorpoints for worldbuilding and characterization. You made your point clear, as I did mine.

It is, what it is. Simple as that.

Edited September 1 by Imba.9451