Balanced classes

[Gnomskii.7423]

it's been so long but it feels like arena does nothing in terms of class balance some classes make you sweat and others kill you with two buttons

[DeanBB.4268]

Anet just made some "balance" changes last week, didn't they?

If only it were as easy as "push a button, game is balanced."

[Zebulous.2934]

I thought players in the pvp and wvw forums complained regularly about how their class was nerfed in the most recent balance patch.  For that matter they complain in the profession sub-forums.  What do you mean, "it's been so long." ?  How have you missed the numerous complaint threads for each balance patch?

Another thing to consider is that balanced doesn't have to mean identical.  I main mesmer; I can't inflict the burning status, or fear, or chill, but that is ok, I can still blind, comfuse, and bleed opponents.

[Rogue.8235]

This is because the game is in a state best described as Schrödinger's Balance and special relativity.

The game is both balanced and unbalanced until played by a forum user.  At this point, the game becomes unbalanced in that the forum user's profession is sub-par and must be corrected with buffs.  Simultaneously, another forum user interacts with the game and observes that the first user's profession is too strong and requires corrective nerfs.  These two separate frames of reference observing the same interaction cancels each other out, resulting in balance.

Joking aside, the player community cannot agree on a coherent definition of balance.  Since everyone has their own, unstated, definition of balance, the community at large appears to be self-contradictory in terms of what constitutes good balance.  This creates a nonsensical mess of feedback which is as usable for the developer's as the above paragraph.

 

I'm not aware of any official statement which clearly defines what a balanced GW2 is envisioned to be by the developers.  If they have released such a statement, a link would be awesome.  Anyways, without such a definition to provide a cohesive foundation, balance discussions are meaningless.

 

[Zebulous.2934]

That is true.  People who play willbender insist that they aren't strong enough when compared to other professions, while representatives from every other class insist that willbender is overpowered.  You can replace willbender with every other class and get the same result.  Well, except core warrior. No one thinks that the core warrior profession is overpowered.  

[Gnomskii.7423]

I play a mesmer and he is usually the anti-class of wilbender, but I also play a warrior and after he was nerfed, it became uncool to play him.Вut at the same time, i can't kill a thief, a thief is the anticlass of all classes

4 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

That is true.  People who play willbender insist that they aren't strong enough when compared to other professions, while representatives from every other class insist that willbender is overpowered.  You can replace willbender with every other class and get the same result.  Well, except core warrior. No one thinks that the core warrior profession is overpowered.  

Edited August 30 by Gnomskii.7423

[Triptaminas.4789]

21 minutes ago, Gnomskii.7423 said:

I play a mesmer and he is usually the anti-class of wilbender, but I also play a warrior and after he was nerfed, it became uncool to play him.Вut at the same time, i can't kill a thief, a thief is the anticlass of all classes

L2p, mesmer kills a thief. 

[Smart College Boy.3249]

9 minutes ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

L2p, mesmer kills a thief. 

Oh, wow, what a groundbreaking analysis! Truly, you've peeled back the layers of Mesmer tactics like no one ever has. I mean, who needs detailed guides when we've got your five-word masterpiece? I’m definitely pinning your wisdom to my wall so I can bask in its brilliance every time I log in.

[Triptaminas.4789]

13 minutes ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

Oh, wow, what a groundbreaking analysis! Truly, you've peeled back the layers of Mesmer tactics like no one ever has. I mean, who needs detailed guides when we've got your five-word masterpiece? I’m definitely pinning your wisdom to my wall so I can bask in its brilliance every time I log in.

Sounds like lot of words to obfuscate skill issue.

Just get better, there is no need to be upset

[Gnomskii.7423]

1 hour ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

L2p, mesmer kills a thief. 

I would like to see how you would kill deadeye, who does not come out of invisibility and kills you, no matter where you go or do a teleport

[Rogue.8235]

5 minutes ago, Gnomskii.7423 said:

I would like to see how you would kill deadeye, who does not come out of invisibility and kills you, no matter where you go or do a teleport

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feedback

[Triptaminas.4789]

4 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feedback

Shhhh... don't tell him, he must l2p on his own 

[Gnomskii.7423]

16 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feedback

do you really think you're smarter than others? I'm telling you again, he comes out of invisibility for half a second and leaves again, this feedback skill has a cooldown, it's not eternal =)))

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30 by Gnomskii.7423

[Malus.2184]

18 hours ago, Gnomskii.7423 said:

it's been so long but it feels like arena does nothing in terms of class balance some classes make you sweat and others kill you with two buttons

This game can never be balanced as long as Boons are a disproportionate aspect of the player's total power.

[Triptaminas.4789]

34 minutes ago, Gnomskii.7423 said:

do you really think you're smarter than others? I'm telling you again, he comes out of invisibility for half a second and leaves again, this feedback skill has a cooldown, it's not eternal =)))

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is more reflect sources, deadeye have audio cue, visual too, zoom out. L2p

[Zebulous.2934]

4 hours ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

There is more reflect sources, deadeye have audio cue, visual too, zoom out. L2p

Well we are probably going to eat the first hit.  Once the deadeye sees the reflect I assume that they will stop their rotation.

If mesmer runs focus then more reflection is available.  I agree that reflect is useful against inexperienced or overconfident deadeyes.

Edited August 30 by Zebulous.2934
Phone's keyboard "features"

[Triptaminas.4789]

50 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

Well we are probably going to eat the first hit.  Once the deadeye sees the reflect I assume that they will stop their rotation.

If mesmer runs focus then more reflection is available.  I agree that reflect is useful against inexperienced or overconfident deadeyes.

Well, even if u reflect, proper one dodges out his own bullet. 

I don't really see issues with deadeyes tbh, like as far as mesmer v deadeye goes I rarely getting rekt, and if they rekt me it was obv mistakes from my side. I also barely use reflects outside of evasion trait and sometimes heal one. 

Daredevils or even core thiefs is more annoying to me, the condi vomit is what most of my mesmers can't properly handle. Eye pew pew is meme for slow classes only. 

It oneshoting u with max malice from stealth when u least expect it is not really that different than other classes one shoting u from ze bushes. Part of game. But if u dueling I really don't see issue with deadeye as mesmer 

Edited August 30 by Triptaminas.4789

[starlinvf.1358]

Paper beats rock, Scissors beats paper. Scissors also beats rock. Until Rock hits level 50, and becomes an unstoppable killing machine that also beats paper. Rock would also beat scissors…. but it can’t find scissors, cuz scissors be invisible.  

Scissors beats paper, and avoids rock, and thats called balance. 

Edited August 31 by starlinvf.1358

[EviLEwoK.6270]

Seems to me this last set of "balances" also did a number in PvE too. Tower of Nightmares went from being manageable to downright impossible, even with a 5 person squad.

[Gehenna.3625]

"You're looking for class balance in a game genre that has none"

[Smart College Boy.3249]

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

"You're looking for class balance in a game genre that has none"

I never expected any sort of major class balance in MMORPGs. But I do expect future games to learn from the mistakes of the past. The one thing I hope they all learn is NOT to create a stealther class that can wtfpwn from stealth. Instead, make stealth more of a scouting ability and give major drawbacks for anyone attacking from stealth. No point discussing the intricacies of all the possibilities here because this game is already set on having a class that wtfpwns out of stealth.

[starlinvf.1358]

16 hours ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

I never expected any sort of major class balance in MMORPGs. But I do expect future games to learn from the mistakes of the past. The one thing I hope they all learn is NOT to create a stealther class that can wtfpwn from stealth. Instead, make stealth more of a scouting ability and give major drawbacks for anyone attacking from stealth. No point discussing the intricacies of all the possibilities here because this game is already set on having a class that wtfpwns out of stealth.

Except thats basically not possible to balance the way you think balance is.  Stealth as a mechanic is too binary to be balanced in either action or tab target games. Any draw backs you think you can give it will be heavy handed or ineffective.  Theres no in between.

 You either have to give every class the option, and up the counterplay accordingly.  Or remove it entirely so its out if the mix.

If devs have to learn anything, its that stealth should not be associated exclusively with glass canons and agile builds. It ALWAYS ends up going down the optimization path that. we all know too well. 

Stealth tank meta!!!

[Smart College Boy.3249]

4 hours ago, starlinvf.1358 said:

If devs have to learn anything, its that stealth should not be associated exclusively with glass canons and agile builds. It ALWAYS ends up going down the optimization path that. we all know too well. 

Stealth tank meta!!!

Or keep it simple. There can be pure stealth classes but make it balanced by not letting them use any abilities for FIVE seconds once they leave stealth. But even that might be a problem as graphics get more sophisticated and it is easier to hide in a bush or behind a tree. 

 

But if graphics are getting that good, then you won't need the current version of stealth. People will be able to camouflage themselves without the perma invisibility nonsense we have now. The balance will come from needing to stand still (immobile) to remain camouflaged behind the object.