Celestial gear ?

[willow.8209]

34 minutes ago, Kastagir.2146 said:

So if you are a casual player that just does story and open-world content Celestrial is good for that? 

yes, but it's not the only thing that's good. And it won't be as fast to defeat things as the player in raid gear, but you'll probably get downed less often. 

[Atoclone.4810]

4 hours ago, Kastagir.2146 said:

So if you are a casual player that just does story and open-world content Celestrial is good for that? 

I'd say it's the best entry level gear for that. Once you get used to things then you could start swapping a few bits out for a more specialised role but tbh you probably wouldn't need to. Whilst I play ele which probably gets the best out of the gear I've used mostly cele gear to clear every open world and story stuff in the game. I could probably do it all quicker on a none cele build but I don't tend to want to try hard unless I'm doing group content 

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Essentially, if your character is in serious danger of dying and dodging and doing lots of damage isn't going to be enough to avoid this danger then Cele is likely the best choice you have.

If you are a DPS in a raid squad then this does not apply - positioning, dodging and relying on your healer WILL be enough to avoid the danger (and of course you need the DPS to perform your role).

If you are a good player doing most open world content, including many champions, then dodging and using your other skills on a full dps build will also be enough to avoid the danger (and of course you will kill the enemies faster with your DPS build).

A non-exhaustive list of situations where you are in serious danger of dying and dodging and killing fast won't necessarily be enough to save you is: PvP (potentially), WvW roaming (because the other guy is likely just as good at dodging and killing you so having a sustain edge can be critical), you are a new or less experience player trying to push into more challenging open world content (for you), or you are an experienced player trying to solo legendaries.

Edited September 13 by Mistwraithe.3106

[Mungrul.9358]

Just another point that is worth considering:
When I came back to the game after taking a break for 7 years, I picked up my main Warrior as I'd left him, geared fully in Exotic Celestial. I did the entirety of Heart of Thorns with that gear, and it was painful.

If you do go for Celestial, despite what others may tell you, go for Ascended. Despite the difference on paper being seemingly negligible, those extra few points from Ascended can make all the difference in my experience.

Also, and probably the more importantly, Celestial really isn't great on Warrior.

[Zyreva.1078]

59 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

If you do go for Celestial, despite what others may tell you, go for Ascended. Despite the difference on paper being seemingly negligible, those extra few points from Ascended can make all the difference in my experience.

It's not that big of a difference that it would be noticeable during casual open world/story gameplay.

Your issue with HoT was most likely caused by a bad build (and lack of experience). Keep in mind, gear is only one part of a build. And if the rest - skills and traits - do not synergize with your gear, the build will be bad. This applies regardless of chosen stats or gear quality.

And i'm sure with a corresponding build cele warrior would have been just fine.

Edited September 13 by Zyreva.1078

[Farohna.6247]

10 hours ago, Kastagir.2146 said:

So if you are a casual player that just does story and open-world content Celestrial is good for that? 

Yes.  If you enjoy open world and solo a lot, then I would also suggest looking at Lord Hizen on YouTube.  The builds usually use celestial and they're pretty much indestructible for OW.  Makes it a lot of fun.  

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Just another point that is worth considering:
When I came back to the game after taking a break for 7 years, I picked up my main Warrior as I'd left him, geared fully in Exotic Celestial. I did the entirety of Heart of Thorns with that gear, and it was painful.

If you do go for Celestial, despite what others may tell you, go for Ascended. Despite the difference on paper being seemingly negligible, those extra few points from Ascended can make all the difference in my experience.

I wouldnt' say that's correct. Your issue was probably due to a steep difference in difficulty between hot and core content.

 

2 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Also, and probably the more importantly, Celestial really isn't great on Warrior.

Although here I think you touched on a good point (even though there are builds for warrior that utilize celestial stats well or well enough) -people try to simplify responses to "celestial is good for new players", but in reality I'd say it depends on the player's approach and the build/s they want to use.

Edited September 13 by Sobx.1758

[Mungrul.9358]

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

It's not that big of a difference that it would be noticeable during casual open world/story gameplay.

Your issue with HoT was most likely caused by a bad build (and lack of experience). Keep in mind, gear is only one part of a build. And if the rest - skills and traits - do not synergize with your gear, the build will be bad. This applies regardless of chosen stats or gear quality.

And i'm sure with a corresponding build cele warrior would have been just fine.

Did I say when I came back?
During the pandemic, 3 years ago. Believe me, I know Warrior as an open world profession and what a difference gear and build can make.

Ascended Celestial for Warrior just about works, but doesn't quite kill things fast enough, and doesn't quite provide enough sustain for the trade off.
Exotic Celestial just doesn't cut the mustard any way you look at it.

Warrior doesn't spew boons simply by existing like other professions, so doesn't massively benefit from Concentration / Boon Duration, and it has access to precisely TWO damaging conditions, Bleed and Burn, both of which are hard to build for unless you go all-in (and you're going to have to make some serious sacrifices to do so, such as movement speed.)

For condi, you're better off going Viper or Grieving, and for everything else there's Berserker. That's the reality of playing Warrior.

 

[Mungrul.9358]

23 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I wouldnt' say that's correct. Your issue was probably due to a steep difference in difficulty between hot and core content.

You make the same assumption as @Zyreva.1078, but I played through the whole campaign solo with all Celestial, and it was significantly harder for my Warrior than any of the other professions I took through. I've got Knight of the Thorn and all Caladbolg variations, all through quests, NOT transforms, so that should tell you all you need to know.

Put it this way:

Weaver was easy-mode by comparison (and was in fact, somewhat surprisingly, the easiest time I had with the final boss!)

Edited September 13 by Mungrul.9358

[Xelqypla.6817]

Celestial is just another group of stats. People swear by it, but I think that's more of a placebo effect than an actual increase in usefulness.

More total stats is pointless if you are not effectively utilizing those stats. Like, if you had no problems staying alive, more toughness and vitality aren't going to do anything for you.

I use Celestial on some builds because I use the majority of the stats. Most builds I use are either mostly Berserker or Viper.

[GamerToad.9248]

3 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

Celestial is just another group of stats. People swear by it, but I think that's more of a placebo effect than an actual increase in usefulness.

More total stats is pointless if you are not effectively utilizing those stats. Like, if you had no problems staying alive, more toughness and vitality aren't going to do anything for you.

I use Celestial on some builds because I use the majority of the stats. Most builds I use are either mostly Berserker or Viper.

Question do you play wvw? Also here

 

[Svviety.8051]

 

[Xelqypla.6817]

19 minutes ago, GamerToad.9248 said:

Question do you play wvw? Also here

Celestial has it's place but it is not the be-all, end-all for stat selection.

I already said I use it on some builds.

I have a rather low opinion of YouTube videos, but I decided I would give yours a chance. It apparently started as a reaction video to another persons video on their opinion on... A potent reminder of why I stopped clicking on random posted YouTube videos.

[GamerToad.9248]

5 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

Celestial has it's place but it is not the be-all, end-all for stat selection.

I already said I use it on some builds.

I have a rather low opinion of YouTube videos, but I decided I would give yours a chance. It apparently started as a reaction video to another persons video on their opinion on... A potent reminder of why I stopped clicking on random posted YouTube videos.

It is a reaction but the reason of celestial being cursed is clearly explained in the video.

But how i noticed you did not cared to watch the issue is that you get lot of defensive stats without losing a considerable damage.

 

Classes that often abuses celestial are hybrid classes that can spam might and concentration will make it even easier to the point where you will do good damage while being very tanky (ele and necromancer comes to mind).

[Zyreva.1078]

54 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Did I say when I came back?
During the pandemic, 3 years ago.

Cele got buffed about 3 years ago, so maybe your run with exotic cele gear was before the buffs and your gameplay with ascended after? That would explain a noticeable difference at least.

57 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Warrior doesn't spew boons simply by existing like other professions, so doesn't massively benefit from Concentration / Boon Duration, and it has access to precisely TWO damaging conditions, Bleed and Burn, both of which are hard to build for unless you go all-in (and you're going to have to make some serious sacrifices to do so, such as movement speed.)

Warrior has might, which is the most important one for cele and it has a viable condi build and that's pretty much all a class needs for a functioning cele build in PvE (ofc having more boons is better, but still). Warrior might still not be the best class for utilizing cele stats, but still, it's very unlikely that stats and gear quality were the main reason for your struggles with HoT.

[Xelqypla.6817]

1 minute ago, GamerToad.9248 said:

It is a reaction but the reason of celestial being cursed is clearly explained in the video.

But how i noticed you did not cared to watch the issue is that you get lot of defensive stats without losing a considerable damage.

 

Classes that often abuses celestial are hybrid classes that can spam might and concentration will make it even easier to the point where you will do good damage while being very tanky (ele and necromancer comes to mind).

I'm not going to watch a random person babble on for who knows how long to get the the point, IF they even get to the point.

41 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

More total stats is pointless if you are not effectively utilizing those stats. Like, if you had no problems staying alive, more toughness and vitality aren't going to do anything for you.

The inverse is correct as well. If you ARE having problems staying alive, then more toughness and vitality ARE going to help you.

For the third time: I use Celestial on some builds.

[GamerToad.9248]

6 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

I'm not going to watch a random person babble on for who knows how long to get the the point, IF they even get to the point.

That's bloody too bad isn't i provided a video that explain everything and is a reaction to a video that uses all the counter points for and against cele.

[Buran.3796]

2 hours ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

Celestial is just another group of stats. People swear by it, but I think that's more of a placebo effect than an actual increase in usefulness.

   A placebo effect? 75% more stat points than 3 stat gear and 59.4% more stat points than 4 stat gear is a placebo?

   We could argue about if is the best in any situation and build (is not), but calling placebo a 60% increase in stat points is delusional.

   Also: in some builds the difference in damage compared to a pure dps viper or grieving build is really small. As example: Revenant condi builds largely rely on torment, torment delivers an extra 45% damage to static targets, if you can facetank your foe it will remain place and eat that extra damage. Soloing gainst regular mobs a condi Revenant with viper stats kills faster than a celestial one, but against some bounties the celestial build will do the work faster because you rarely will need to move. Plus, as I said, cele is totally meta in WvW.

   So yes, cele is great.

[Xelqypla.6817]

15 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   A placebo effect? 75% more stat points than 3 stat gear and 59.4% more stat points than 4 stat gear is a placebo?

   We could argue about if is the best in any situation and build (is not), but calling placebo a 60% increase in stat points is delusional.

   Also: in some builds the difference in damage compared to a pure dps viper or grieving build is really small. As example: Revenant condi builds largely rely on torment, torment delivers an extra 45% damage to static targets, if you can facetank your foe it will remain place and eat that extra damage. Soloing gainst regular mobs a condi Revenant with viper stats kills faster than a celestial one, but against some bounties the celestial build will do the work faster because you rarely will need to move. Plus, as I said, cele is totally meta in WvW.

   So yes, cele is great.

It would help you understand my point if you quoted the NEXT part of that post as well.

I mainly run around with a D/D Condi Daredevil in Viper. If I switch to Celestial, is that 59.4% increase in total stats helping me?

When I get hit with noise damage, my health pool would drop less. I could take more hits. My healing would be slightly better even. My boons would last slightly longer. It's all good, right?

No. It's just a placebo. All I am doing is making each fight last just a little longer because I have less useful stats. The fact that I can take more hits is worthless since I wasn't dying anyway.

For the FOURTH (4!) time, I use Celestial on some builds. I am aware of its usefulness. I agree that Celestial can be good. I use it too. However, it is just one of the stat combinations, not something to be recommended just because it gives you more total stat points. More stat points are only good if you actually USE them. Kinda like adding an extra 4000 precision on Assassins gear might give you more total stat points, but that doesn't make it useful.

[Leger.3724]

Celestial is going to be the best option for players until they decide on a specific build for a specific purpose and learn the rotation properly.

Anyone saying it's a gimmick doesn't understand this game's combat very well. Almost every elite specialization still puts out boons, still takes damage requiring healing, etc...

Does it give the most damage? No. But it gives some. Does it give the most boon duration? No but it gives some. Does it increase your healing the most? No but it gives some.

That is what makes celestial so strong.

Of course you can do open world content with a non-celestial build. But then you need to understand what your build is not good at like you do more damage but have less survivability and healing so you need to be better about positioning and dodging.

And I'll be dead honest - I suspect a lot of people here are like Ferrari owners who should probably be driving Toyotas (celestial) because they'd probably do better with the Toyota and get more mileage out of it.

[Buran.3796]

18 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

It would help you understand my point if you quoted the NEXT part of that post as well.

I mainly run around with a D/D Condi Daredevil in Viper. If I switch to Celestial, is that 59.4% increase in total stats helping me?

When I get hit with noise damage, my health pool would drop less. I could take more hits. My healing would be slightly better even. My boons would last slightly longer. It's all good, right?

  Yep, this is my point of view:

* I oftenly run solo the HoT hero points, I oftenly solo PoF bounties. The first ones for the gold, the second ones just for pleasure (they are not rewarding in terms of gold but are enjoyable in terms of fun).

*I've tried those activities with several specs and builds. When I run a power Vindi with cap crit chace, ~210% crit damage and 2600+ power the easy HPs die faster and I can save a few minutes; when I face a tougher boss I can die, and to prevent it I have to retreat or defend to the point that my average damage drops and then overall I'm losing time instead gaining it. I can barely solo 60% of bounties with my power Vindi.

* When I run my cele vindi I can't die in HoT unless I afk, I can solo any PoF bounty except two and neither of those two can kill me. So to me cele is more productive, because ensures I meet the goals, in a decent time frame, without any help; the 46% free increase in boon duration helps a lot ensuring near perma regeneration, fury and protection, the free healing power enhances my regen and the extra toughness rises my armor ~3k so I only need to care about avoiding one-shoot mechanics.

   I found that only Reaper, Untamed, Bladesworn and Virtuoso do significatively benefit from a pure power build in solo OW and the last two of then are hard to play (because when you miss with your skills, you're in a big trouble). For everything elase, I found cele much safer and easier to play (albeit my fav OW Willbender build runs traiblazer and dire, not celestial).

[Xelqypla.6817]

12 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Yep, this is my point of view:

* I oftenly run solo the HoT hero points, I oftenly solo PoF bounties. The first ones for the gold, the second ones just for pleasure (they are not rewarding in terms of gold but are enjoyable in terms of fun).

*I've tried those activities with several specs and builds. When I run a power Vindi with cap crit chace, ~210% crit damage and 2600+ power the easy HPs die faster and I can save a few minutes; when I face a tougher boss I can die, and to prevent it I have to retreat or defend to the point that my average damage drops and then overall I'm losing time instead gaining it. I can barely solo 60% of bounties with my power Vindi.

* When I run my cele vindi I can't die in HoT unless I afk, I can solo any PoF bounty except two and neither of those two can kill me. So to me cele is more productive, because ensures I meet the goals, in a decent time frame, without any help; the 46% free increase in boon duration helps a lot ensuring near perma regeneration, fury and protection, the free healing power enhances my regen and the extra toughness rises my armor ~3k so I only need to care about avoiding one-shoot mechanics.

   I found that only Reaper, Untamed, Bladesworn and Virtuoso do significatively benefit from a pure power build in solo OW and the last two of then are hard to play (because when you miss with your skills, you're in a big trouble). For everything elase, I found cele much safer and easier to play (albeit my fav OW Willbender build runs traiblazer and dire, not celestial).

Cool.

5th time: I use Celestial too.

I chose to point out D/D condi Daredevil because it is clearly not going to benefit from boon duration or defensive stats. If you want to try it out with Celestial for the extra stats, go for it. See how well that works out.

[Chyro.1462]

Note: Celestial just got killed for likely most builds and classes in WvW with the removal of Concentration and Expertise there. Though for PvE it remains unchanged.

(October 8th balance preview)

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Chyro.1462 said:

Note: Celestial just got killed for likely most builds and classes in WvW with the removal of Concentration and Expertise there. Though for PvE it remains unchanged.

(October 8th balance preview)

  Yes. And only proves how OP is. Currently baned in PvP and going to be nerfed in WvW. Is like when WRC forbid the Audi quattro traction system from the competition due how much dominated the "meta".

Edited September 13 by Buran.3796

[willow.8209]

so, in the first place, here is the age old debate in mmo's

* DPS is king, all the DPS all the times. Fie on the vitality and such. DPS, DPS, DPS. Oh yea and someone else as heals, if I die on DPS it's healer's fault. But me, DPS!

vs

* The stats you need are conditional.

To me yeah, it depends. Depends on the content. Depends on your internet connection. Depends on your health. Depends on your hardware (i.e. finances). etc.

 

Second place, I'm super bummed about cele. That's been my disability accommodation. 

Edit: the crossed out part was a low blow, sorry about that. Maybe an extra amount of "it's the healer's fault" players are glass cannon builds, but a lot of  players running glass cannon builds don't engage in such blame tactics. 

Edited September 14 by willow.8209
tone