If warrior's spear was bloated, what's guard's spear? 💀

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

They're glasscannoning, let them glasscannon.

🐰🥕 no.

Just kidding.

The only thing I like more than poetic irony is pettiness, but I'm not going to call for anything because I still think solar storm is fair. 

 God I wanna be petty though.

Edited Tuesday at 04:52 PM by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Terrorhuz.4695]

The least toxic thief enjoyer being like

23 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

God I wanna be petty

[Kuya.6495]

I dunno if you guys saw the 2v2 tourney this weekend but every spear willbender basically got blown up 10 seconds into the fight

So with that in mind, is there any practical way of nerfing spear willbender so it isn't a terror in ranked but also still playable in comp?

[arazoth.7290]

2 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

I dunno if you guys saw the 2v2 tourney this weekend but every spear willbender basically got blown up 10 seconds into the fight

@Myror.7521We broke the record 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

17 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

I dunno if you guys saw the 2v2 tourney this weekend but every spear willbender basically got blown up 10 seconds into the fight

So with that in mind, is there any practical way of nerfing spear willbender so it isn't a terror in ranked but also still playable in comp?

The answer to this is for people to grow up and dodge because glass is fun but the only way you unlock the good ending is by applying it across the board.   🪦 🐎

[Myror.7521]

@arazoth.7290 what you mean Sir xP we got blown 2 Times xD

[Vancho.8750]

8 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Hey, I've always been honest about mesmer spear needing its own round of nerfs. But ofc I do question the necessity to nerf willbender too in the process. They're glasscannoning, let them glasscannon.

I don't consider mesmer or wb to be glass cannons , they do glass cannon damage but they have little bit too much of an egg timer defensives, like it's  generally accepted that condi  Reaper(never should have brought that back, power is balanced) is quite tanky and yet it implodes in seconds , while the "glass" mesmer and guardian can run around for 10 seconds vs a group focusing them. Mesmer is less of an issue if you can somehow survive the 10 seconds , while wb will just kitten off.  It might be an issue with cds more so than damage. 

I think the biggest issue with the ganky builds these days is that while they are doing their burst you can't retaliate , there isn't much push and pull , you are there trying to survive not fight. One could say its surprise attack, well I see them ,I know what they are gonna do I just don't have any way to stop it and retaliate. If there was a way to outplay them while they do their damage instead of hopping for them to run out of Gas, it would add some dynamics to the game instead of defaulting to bunkering.

[Kuya.6495]

9 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I don't consider mesmer or wb to be glass cannons , they do glass cannon damage but they have little bit too much of an egg timer defensives, like it's  generally accepted that condi  Reaper(never should have brought that back, power is balanced) is quite tanky and yet it implodes in seconds , while the "glass" mesmer and guardian can run around for 10 seconds vs a group focusing them. Mesmer is less of an issue if you can somehow survive the 10 seconds , while wb will just kitten off.  It might be an issue with cds more so than damage. 

I think the biggest issue with the ganky builds these days is that while they are doing their burst you can't retaliate , there isn't much push and pull , you are there trying to survive not fight. One could say its surprise attack, well I see them ,I know what they are gonna do I just don't have any way to stop it and retaliate. If there was a way to outplay them while they do their damage instead of hopping for them to run out of Gas, it would add some dynamics to the game instead of defaulting to bunkering.

Isn't baiting their damage while they run out of gas the definition of outplaying them?

[Flowki.7194]

6 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I don't consider mesmer or wb to be glass cannons , they do glass cannon damage but they have little bit too much of an egg timer defensives

Thats really what it comes down to, and a good way of putting it. Attack while block-immune is just normalised now.. but its so fking casual.

[Captain Crapface.7528]

13 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Isn't baiting their damage while they run out of gas the definition of outplaying them?

Curling up into a ball, crying in a corner and praying to God you have more defences than they have damage, is not exactly what i'd call "outplaying".

Willy can open up on target, blow all his cooldowns, and then simply press free get out of the jail card in form of [Renewed Focus], to get all his most important CD's back, and either reengage with new kill combo, or disengage, for next to no effort.

And that's before we include such things as [Reversal of Fortune] and [Shelter] being a healing skills that block attacks or the fact that a bunch of Guardian skills like spear 2, 4 and autos heal allies on top of doing damage, and that he has close to the best, if not the best acces to utility and boons in the game.

Even if you manage to avoid burst, and his elite is on cooldown, you still are dealing with, target that more often than not has half of the boons in the game, and gains some forms of blocking, either throug aegis, projectile denial bubles, or skills like [Shieald of Wrath], [Sanctuary] or [Signet of Judgement] passive.

[Vancho.8750]

52 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Isn't baiting their damage while they run out of gas the definition of outplaying them?

That's just bunkering, I don't win but sure as kitten you don't too. |
Outplaying is them doing an attack , I do something to not get hit and smacked them across the face for messing up taking up enough HP for them to get startled.
But now its they mess up one time I stun them they port out, reset mess up again still manage to land another cc port out/invuln/break stun  again , third time they mess up smacked them with 0 damage  port out/invuln/break stun  again and at the fourth time I have kitten all cause I'm on full cd and they take half of my HP with AOE attack while I by all definitions of the word have outplayed them 3 times but didn't get rewarded for it.

Notice I'm not using any professions, that applies to all Gank builds these days some more then others but its always the same dance.

Edited Tuesday at 07:19 PM by Vancho.8750

[Hotride.2187]

58 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Isn't baiting their damage while they run out of gas the definition of outplaying them?

I don't know, when comparing how WB does it and how power herald did it, I prefer how power herald did it. It felt like there was more interaction to be had. You could try to counter-pressure and the dmg was less of a torrent.

I still play the same build as before, I still run into some power heralds on the same builds as before. WB is not exactly OP in comparison, but its just less interesting to fight. Just run and kite until it runs out of things. Less back and forth.

Edited Tuesday at 07:22 PM by Hotride.2187

[Kuya.6495]

19 minutes ago, Captain Crapface.7528 said:

Curling up into a ball, crying in a corner and praying to God you have more defences than they have damage, is not exactly what i'd call "outplaying".

Willy can open up on target, blow all his cooldowns, and then simply press free get out of the jail card in form of [Renewed Focus], to get all his most important CD's back, and either reengage with new kill combo, or disengage, for next to no effort.

And that's before we include such things as [Reversal of Fortune] and [Shelter] being a healing skills that block attacks or the fact that a bunch of Guardian skills like spear 2, 4 and autos heal allies on top of doing damage, and that he has close to the best, if not the best acces to utility and boons in the game.

Even if you manage to avoid burst, and his elite is on cooldown, you still are dealing with, target that more often than not has half of the boons in the game, and gains some forms of blocking, either throug aegis, projectile denial bubles, or skills like [Shieald of Wrath], [Sanctuary] or [Signet of Judgement] passive.

Instead of crying in a ball in a corner, I suggest dodging, kiting and using no port spots. But if what you want to do is just cycle through your defensive CDs without having to do any kiting or using terrain, just play spellbreaker.

And the only thing you listed that meta willbenders use is renewed focus. Most willbenders run either litany or signet of resolve. They use judge's intervention, contemplation of purity and either whirling light or flash combo. I don't know what kind of willbenders you're facing that run sanctuary, signet of judgement or shelter, but I'd be very embarrassed if I died to that.

 

[Kuya.6495]

7 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

That's just bunkering, I don't win but sure as kitten you don't too. |
Outplaying is them doing an attack , I do something to not get hit and smacked them across the face for messing up taking up enough HP for them to get startled.
But now its they mess up one time I stun them they port out, reset mess up again still manage to land another cc port out/invuln/break stun  again , third time they mess up smacked them with 0 damage  port out/invuln/break stun  again and at the fourth time I have kitten all cause I'm on full cd and they take half of my HP with AOE attack while I by all definitions of the word have outplayed them 3 times but didn't get rewarded for it.

Notice I'm not using any professions, that applies to all Gank builds these days some more then others but its always the same dance.

I think you just don't like roamers or any builds that runs shadowsteps, ports, or breaks targeting. And that's valid. I get that it's a frustrating fight: I personally don't bother engaging thieves and mesmers unless I absolutely have to because I hate dealing with the porting, stealth and detargeting. 

But just because I hate facing them, it doesn't mean I think the gank builds are broken.

[Vancho.8750]

1 minute ago, Kuya.6495 said:

I think you just don't like roamers or any builds that runs shadowsteps, ports, or breaks targeting. And that's valid. I get that it's a frustrating fight: I personally don't bother engaging thieves and mesmers unless I absolutely have to because I hate dealing with the porting, stealth and detargeting. 

But just because I hate facing them, it doesn't mean I think the gank builds are broken.

I think Its broken if I can't kitten em up if they kitten up. See you say it yourself, you don't bother doing something cause you can't affect them, by the same reasoning Anet should not have touched any of the bunkers.
Also doesn't need to be ports it could be damage mitigation that lets them unload damage while I can't affect them, I need room to punish peoples mistakes. 

[Kuya.6495]

4 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I think Its broken if I can't kitten em up if they kitten up. See you say it yourself, you don't bother doing something cause you can't affect them, by the same reasoning Anet should not have touched any of the bunkers.
Also doesn't need to be ports it could be damage mitigation that lets them unload damage while I can't affect them, I need room to punish peoples mistakes. 

I agree. I think invulnerability that lets you attack isn't balanced. Unfortunately that's not exclusive to guardian (defiant stance, defy pain, distortion, dodges that do damage, glint heal, etc) much less spear. 

But for example, we have an invulnerability on guardian that doesn't let you attack in renewed focus and yet it gets complained about a lot because it allows a guardian a reset on a long cd. So there isn't a consistent thing people are complaining about here.  For example, we're talking core profession mechanics and utilities in a thread about guardian spear! 

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@arazoth.7290 what you mean Sir xP we got blown 2 Times xD

You missed the joke 😂

[Vancho.8750]

10 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

I agree. I think invulnerability that lets you attack isn't balanced. Unfortunately that's not exclusive to guardian (defiant stance, defy pain, distortion, dodges that do damage, glint heal, etc) much less spear. 

But for example, we have an invulnerability on guardian that doesn't let you attack in renewed focus and yet it gets complained about a lot because it allows a guardian a reset on a long cd. So there isn't a consistent thing people are complaining about here.  For example, we're talking core profession mechanics and utilities in a thread about guardian spear! 

Just to point out that in some of the invulnerabilities worked like defy pain instead of full immunity, it will give more interaction cause you can still CC and put conditions on them.
Actually Changing Distortion on some Mesmer Elite spec and give it damage reduction 100 %, will be a net positive for it as a profession cause it will get actual duel build, while also making it interactable. The Strong skills are not the issue its the frequency.
As for Renewed focus , its only an issue with Willbender, maybe its little iffy with DH, core and Firebrand don't get much value out of it, and when the skill was made it reset core virtues which are good, but are not like huge power spike or anything, I think its kinda design fail there if the Elite spec skill has way worse synergy then core skills.  

[Supernova Starr.2069]

On 9/16/2024 at 1:34 PM, HardStuckBronze.2439 said:

You want a hot fix for guard builds in general -> take away the 3 second invuln from renewed focus (can make it a stun break to make up for it) and require that the channel must be completed in order to refresh all virtues. Still a powerful skill but would require some actual thought to use. 
 

No more willbenders porting in blowing all the cds going invuln when they get in trouble then just spamming virtues to escape. 

Average willy does not run RF

This right here is proof none of you maggots that crave WB nerfs have any idea why you keep getting face rolled by below average WB

And it's also the reason anet does not take WB nerf request seriously

[HardStuckBronze.2439]

4 hours ago, Supernova Starr.2069 said:

Average willy does not run RF

This right here is proof none of you maggots that crave WB nerfs have any idea why you keep getting face rolled by below average WB

And it's also the reason anet does not take WB nerf request seriously

First of all never claimed to get face rolled by willbenders and I think I understand it just fine. I play rev and guard, with two accounts in plat and when I play willbender it’s with feel my wrath. I would say imo thats the more the competitive elite overall. 
 

That being said I don’t know what you’re talking about, a lot still run renewed focus. It’s less effective at dealing damage but annoying because it’s harder to punish. It also affects other guard builds like DH not specifically willbender 
 

Like I said in an earlier post if you specifically want  to nerf willbender you need to go after its boons and low cd mobility.
 

Willbender is hard carried by getting all the important boons on < 30 cd, and having top tier mobility and damage. I understand why people dislike it. I can try hard on another class like power herald or roll willbender for easy mode. 
 

It’s not breaking the meta like spellbreaker was recently but to say it’s balanced for its role is just wrong.

[Saiyan.1704]

On 9/16/2024 at 3:52 PM, bethekey.8314 said:

Apparently the new Storm-whatever relic has no ICD (despite saying it should), which inflates WB damage significantly.

It's only bugged on F1.

[gyravi.9632]

12 hours ago, Captain Crapface.7528 said:

as far as i know more bladesworns are playing PvP and WvW becouse i can confirm there's at least one in each of thease gamemodes.

Yeah exactly where? In low silver bronze?

and in WvW in the past roaming month I only encountered 1 Bsw😅

[WingSwipe.3084]

20 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Hey, I've always been honest about mesmer spear needing its own round of nerfs. But ofc I do question the necessity to nerf willbender too in the process. They're glasscannoning, let them glasscannon.

You cant be a glass cannon if you can generate every boon in the game and apply every debuff to make sure your enemy cant fight back.

If your stacking skills that teleport you to the target, literally bypassing the entire approach damage you'd normally take, and a weapon that has access the following:

• Damage
• Healing
• Cleanse
• Ally Cleanse
• Anti-power condis
• Has an "empower next attack" mechanic.
• Defensive boons application.
• Offensive boons Application.
• Ally boon application
• Single target spike damage.
• AOE spike damage.
• AOE Knockback
• 600 Leap

Things get a little wonky.

Oh, and if the Willbender messes up any part of their engage rotation they get to leave or restart the conflict and/or run away with some swiftness as a cherry on top.

This would by any other game and by any other communitys standards be seen as a bit of a crutch, in the mildest of terms, but what do I know.

[Captain Crapface.7528]

11 hours ago, Supernova Starr.2069 said:

Average willy does not run RF

"Don't believe your eyes, i know better what you saw."

Brother, Guardian doesn't have other source of full invoulnerability, and it is painfully obvious when they're casting RF becouse it not only has long, distinct animation, but also its icon appears on their long-kitten buff bar.

Perchaps you speak of Plat and Tournament players, then I'll be willing to agree, but in solo queue (EU at least) average willy ABSOLUTELY runs RF, becouse it's the only button that let's them survive their own flawless decisionmaking.

[Captain Crapface.7528]

13 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Instead of crying in a ball in a corner, I suggest dodging, kiting and using no port spots.

is it your first day off reddit or your first interaction with a human at all?

You know we tend to flavour our speech due to this odd quirk we have called "personality".