If warrior's spear was bloated, what's guard's spear? 💀

[Captain Crapface.7528]

1 hour ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Rifle deadeye, but I assume a lot of people would call that build OP too because it's annoying to fight. 

There are builds, (anything mele and slow tbh) that rifle thief can just kite and pepper down from 1200-1500 range. Not to mention stealth, not to mention other "balanced" interactions from thief's toolkit like porting dagger 5 with Infitlration Sighet (only an example don't sue me), or instant ranged, animation free Steal, that Dazed thanks to Sleight of Hand trait...

Thief and balance shouldn't be brought up in the same conversation XD

 

[Frequency.6407]

2 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

What currently counters WB that isn't also OP?

ok I give f-tier spec for willy but is not on metabattel bcz they dont have F tier

https://preview.gw2.be/AAAAPWUBAABOAAt8SgVQSYAMaXjEZaKADeIdYhIUwBUxwAAWFX-vfpz3FcSqdiUk

this weaver fire/earth and take grey heart for prevent crit

start fire attune, willy tele on u nd u press earth button and tank dmg

u press primordial stanc and give him condi dmg

he then confuse and run away bcz not know spec

dont chase him bcz this not fast spec

also dont play ranked with dis bcz team abuse u

 

[Shagie.7612]

very funny to me that DE (and thief in general) does even harder gatekeeping to like 75% of the game and nobody cares a single bit about any of them, but it's all anyone ever mentions about willbender because it's the one notable bad experience they ever have

[Captain Crapface.7528]

14 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

DE (and thief in general) does even harder gatekeeping to like 75% of the game and nobody cares a single bit about any of them

Guardian can be fixed, guardian can be balanced, there's hope for guardian.

Thief and Mesmer are completely hopeless, and deserve to be entirely deleted from the existence, alongside their playerbase.

You happy?

[WingSwipe.3084]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

very funny to me that DE (and thief in general) does even harder gatekeeping to like 75% of the game and nobody cares a single bit about any of them, but it's all anyone ever mentions about willbender because it's the one notable bad experience they ever have

Everyone cares about thieves being atrocious to fight.

Issue there is that you cant hope to balance them since the thief playerbase is hardcore gatekeeping secret techniques, bug abuse and/or general glitch abuse.

Most people, let alone the devs, have a clue to how deep that rabbit hole goes.

 

Edited Thursday at 08:56 AM by WingSwipe.3084

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Everyone cares about thieves being atrocious to fight.

Issue there is that you cant hope to balance them since the thief playerbase is hardcore gatekeeping secret techniques, bug abuse and/or general glitch abuse.

Most people, let alone the devs, have a clue to how deep that rabbit hole goes.

There are very few thieves that can play sword / dagger well though. Generally there are very few thieves that can play power builds well. 2-3 mistakes and the thief has to run.

[WingSwipe.3084]

30 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

There are very few thieves that can play sword / dagger well though. Generally there are very few thieves that can play power builds well. 2-3 mistakes and the thief has to run.

This isnt about who can play it well, this is about blatant abuse of bugs and glitches.

This isnt the place to have that conversation though, we should get back to Guardians spear.

[HardStuckBronze.2439]

5 hours ago, Captain Crapface.7528 said:

Rifle deadeye, but I assume a lot of people would call that build OP too because it's annoying to fight. 

This is getting way off topic but thief has a lot of hard counters -> just pick up ranger (soulbeast or untamed) you can reveal and burst them from 100% health to downstate and dead in about 2 seconds. If you take long bow channeled skills like LB 2 will track when they stealth. Dragon Hunter also works extremely well as does vindi. 
 

2 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

the thief playerbase is hardcore gatekeeping secret techniques, bug abuse and/or general glitch abuse.

That video is cute. I liked the part where he discovered insta-cast skills like steal could be used…well… instantly. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

11 hours ago, Supernova Starr.2069 said:

Stealth is xd

kitten you right 💀🥃

Quote

Issue there is that you cant hope to balance them since the thief playerbase is hardcore gatekeeping secret techniques, bug abuse and/or general glitch abuse.

*Laughs in RE4 merchant*

Edited Thursday at 11:55 AM by Azure The Heartless.3261

[WingSwipe.3084]

55 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

kitten you right 💀🥃

*Laughs in RE4 merchant*

You cat bast-ard, spill your secrets!

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

You cat bast-ard, spill your secrets!

Sorry I'm only honest on my warrior day job 💀🔪

[OddFinrir.6801]

9 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

What currently counters WB that isn't also OP?

Scepter/pistol 3 on thief in a 1v1 technically, but not reliably because the back step messes up their teleport spam but they can just leave. Sanctuary on guard because teleport spam and even people with "best of the best" will keep teleporting into it, but it's the same class and you will just make them useless on one spot. This is OP, but condition reaper with all the corruptions you can get plus the fear damage trait, but they can still survive by teleporting away.

There's really no actual counter that's hard for them to survive unless they are dumb tbh. They survive because they have a every single boon to mitigate damage plus blocks. Technically only necros have the kit to deal with the rampant boons since removing them clearly isn't enough.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

10 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

What currently counters WB that isn't also OP?

*unfurls scroll*

Axe warrior (power zerker), because they have to approach and that's the main warrior weakness. Spear is actually a handicap v them but close combat weapons work. Unfortunately nobody plays this (dont @ me. ) and spellbreakers arent brave enough to run non infinitank/are too slow with their damage. 

Axe thief.  At least before the nerfs. Unfortunate. 

Virtuoso sometimes. Not really, but sometimes. 

Sword dagger thief. You know why. 💀🍷

Power herald. Maybe also vindicator.

A well played Soulbeast.

The only people that get eaten alive are necros, engies (because they can't handle lots of close combat) squishies (eles and mesmers), distracted or catatonic thieves, and classes that picked weapons that cant do high damage to their immediate area. (Longbow ranger will perish. Rifle war and spear war will perish. )

Basically willbender is punishing people that want to bunker or not play aggressive, but loses to people that can play aggressive.

Unless you're scepter ele. You lose anyway.

 

Edited Thursday at 02:48 PM by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Hotride.2187]

11 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

spellbreakers arent brave enough to run non infinitank/are too slow with their damage.

I dont really have an issue with them on str SPB, if they (for whatever reason) decide to stay after they pressed all the buttons (and I just dodged/sidestepped all of it). But actually catching a smart one and killing... Good luck on warrior. They just have to port up or behind a wall and there goes your chase potential. There arent many smart ones though.

The WB type I have the most issues with is the shield running ones, as they have plenty of sustain. But they arent a team fighter killing machine with shield so there is some sort of balance to it. Hammer ones are also an issue if I get caught in the bubble edge, which happens from time to time.

Ofc getting jumped by 2 WBs is bye-bye.

Edited Thursday at 02:55 PM by Hotride.2187

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

10 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I dont really have an issue with them on str SPB, if they (for whatever reason) decide to stay after they pressed all the buttons (and I just dodged/sidestepped all of it). But actually catching a smart one and killing... Good luck on warrior. They just have to port up or behind a wall and there goes your chase potential. There arent many smart ones though.

They're a roamer, I just treat them like visible thief.  If they want to run, I'm not going to catch them, but if they're stupid they'll lose the point AND die after pressing all their buttons.  Agreed there aren't many smart ones YET. Most of them seem to be perpetually surprised that mashing all their buttons into a block gets them killed.

God I wanna be that free to press buttons. I'm so jealous. I miss rushdown I wanna have 2 braincells that both wanna swing sword-

Quote

Ofc getting jumped by 2 WBs is bye-bye.

Rip 

Quote

Hammer ones are also an issue if I get caught in the bubble edge, which happens from time to time.

They have to wind up to put this on you and have to press judges intervention to even dream of getting it around someone not already outplayed. Keep stab in your back pocket and this is slower swordbender.

Edited Thursday at 03:05 PM by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Saiyan.1704]

12 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

What currently counters WB that isn't also OP?

Um, everything actually. WB isn't a 1v1 class, nearly every single class in Conquest or WvW can beat a WB 1v1 if both players are of equal skill. There's a reason why top MAT teams don't run a single WB because we need a healer support to baby-sit us constantly.

The only reason we do well in PUSH is because WB has a plethora of AoE dps compared to other classes and we ALWAYS have a support keeping us alive.

[Kuya.6495]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

*unfurls scroll*

Axe warrior (power zerker), because they have to approach and that's the main warrior weakness. Spear is actually a handicap v them but close combat weapons work. Unfortunately nobody plays this (dont @ me. ) and spellbreakers arent brave enough to run non infinitank/are too slow with their damage. 

Axe thief.  At least before the nerfs. Unfortunate. 

Virtuoso sometimes. Not really, but sometimes. 

Sword dagger thief. You know why. 💀🍷

Power herald. Maybe also vindicator.

A well played Soulbeast.

The only people that get eaten alive are necros, engies (because they can't handle lots of close combat) squishies (eles and mesmers), distracted or catatonic thieves, and classes that picked weapons that cant do high damage to their immediate area. (Longbow ranger will perish. Rifle war and spear war will perish. )

Basically willbender is punishing people that want to bunker or not play aggressive, but loses to people that can play aggressive.

Unless you're scepter ele. You lose anyway.

 

Yes, hammer vindicator is also a bad match up for Willbenders

[Kuya.6495]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

They're a roamer, I just treat them like visible thief.  If they want to run, I'm not going to catch them, but if they're stupid they'll lose the point AND die after pressing all their buttons.  Agreed there aren't many smart ones YET. Most of them seem to be perpetually surprised that mashing all their buttons into a block gets them killed.

God I wanna be that free to press buttons. I'm so jealous. I miss rushdown I wanna have 2 braincells that both wanna swing sword-

Rip 

They have to wind up to put this on you and have to press judges intervention to even dream of getting it around someone not already outplayed. Keep stab in your back pocket and this is slower swordbender.

The one counter I have found to every sort of spellbreaker and druid while on willbender is hammer zeal radiance willbender but it only really works on spellbreakers and druids who face tank the symbols, which happens surprisingly often 

[Ferus.3165]

12 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Um, everything actually. WB isn't a 1v1 class, nearly every single class in Conquest or WvW can beat a WB 1v1 if both players are of equal skill. There's a reason why top MAT teams don't run a single WB because we need a healer support to baby-sit us constantly.

The only reason we do well in PUSH is because WB has a plethora of AoE dps compared to other classes and we ALWAYS have a support keeping us alive.

nah dude wb is strongest 1v1 class there is and countered by noone. You can't beat a wb and if u say otherwise you are a playing wb urself to abuse that kind of power. Every boon or 200 hp heal on wb is the equivalent to a 3 sec block or 3 sec daze on another class. The mat players just haven't figured this out by now but the circlejerkers here have :).

[Saiyan.1704]

8 minutes ago, Ferus.3165 said:

The mat players just haven't figured this out by now but the circlejerkers here have :).

So the forum warriors here have unlocked these WB powers but the MAT winners haven't yet?

I'm so done 💀 

[Kuya.6495]

1 minute ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

So the forum warriors here have unlocked these WB powers but the MAT winners haven't yet?

I'm so done 💀 

I think he's being sarcastic 😬

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I wonder if you can bully a willbender on engie with like... scrapper.

@bethekey.8314 besides nades and mortar, what do y'all have that puts damage directly at your feet that doesn't require a three year commitment. 

Gyros, corona burst, what else? Thumper turret pranks?

[HardStuckBronze.2439]

I think comparing MAT winners and 5 man premade comps with the general pvp population is misleading. Saying there aren’t many willbenders in tourny so it must not be good doesn’t really reflect unranked / ranked. 
 

Willbender isn’t breaking the meta but it certainly takes less skill to pull off than other current roamers. While it might not win you the monthly tournament it can certainly carry you into low to mid plat with minimal effort. 

Also not sure why these guys are talking about countering willbender in a 1v1 scenario. If people are dying to 1v1 duels with willbenders then I’ve misunderstood the problem. It’s a roamer, look at it in the context of how it compares to other roamers and the advantages it has that make it significantly more effective and easier to play than those classes 

[Melumi.6432]

When the kitten are they nerfing Willbender? Boon spam, blink spam, ridiculous damage. The balance team at the moment is a complete joke.
 

[bethekey.8314]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Axe warrior (power zerker), because they have to approach and that's the main warrior weakness. Spear is actually a handicap v them but close combat weapons work. Unfortunately nobody plays this (dont @ me. ) and spellbreakers arent brave enough to run non infinitank/are too slow with their damage. 

Axe thief.  At least before the nerfs. Unfortunate. 

Virtuoso sometimes. Not really, but sometimes. 

Sword dagger thief. You know why. 💀🍷

Power herald. Maybe also vindicator.

A well played Soulbeast.

The only people that get eaten alive are necros, engies (because they can't handle lots of close combat) squishies (eles and mesmers), distracted or catatonic thieves, and classes that picked weapons that cant do high damage to their immediate area. (Longbow ranger will perish. Rifle war and spear war will perish. )

Basically willbender is punishing people that want to bunker or not play aggressive, but loses to people that can play aggressive.

Warrior has uber bunker specs, no surprise there. But true, not "OP". Axe Thief and Virt are OP. "Well played" Soulbeast is irrelevant because WB would also be well played. Vindicator has unnatural levels of dodge/block.

It's a good list overall. My general impression is that WB loses to aggressive, multi-hit, ranged/invulnerable/stealthed, high burst. However, this kills most things and isn't a unique WB weakness. Apart from a very brief window on Grenade Gyro Scrapper, there is almost zero way for me to win trades with WB. Instead, I have to run/hide for ~15 seconds until they're done. To me, that's excessive.

2 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

WB isn't a 1v1 class, nearly every single class in Conquest or WvW can beat a WB 1v1 if both players are of equal skill.

Saiyan Engi vs me WB 🙂

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@bethekey.8314 besides nades and mortar, what do y'all have that puts damage directly at your feet that doesn't require a three year commitment. 

Gyros, corona burst, what else? Thumper turret pranks?

Traited throw mine is a good option. The problem is Engi does zdps if it specs for things like turrets, gadgets, and survival. I don't think I've hit above 6k since my Rocket Turret build got nerfed.

That feels so sad to say lol. Here we are debating whether this boon ridden, teleporting juggernaut that wipes whole teams with 1 mil match damage is OP or not. And meanwhile, my Turret Engi got deleted not long ago.