BIS Roaming

[Anekto.8391]

As the title suggests ! Which class is best in slot for roaming?

 

Are there trade offs between classes? What class is unnoticed for roamers and secretly op? As in not yet meta? Anyone wanna share some secrets?

 

EDIT:

I want to hear some opinions and discuss but if you can support it by data and logic i would be even more happy!

Edited 17 hours ago by Anekto.8391
I want opinions!

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Thief.

Engage, disengage and reset the fights at will, only visible for a split second since you can deal damage without triggering revealed.

[Anekto.8391]

14 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Thief.

Just out of curiousity... on the matter of your perspective. Do you play thief or are a thief main? What is your go to profession?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

12 minutes ago, Anekto.8391 said:

Just out of curiousity... on the matter of your perspective. Do you play thief or are a thief main? What is your go to profession?

Not a thief main, play it occasionally.

Mesmer.

[idolin.2831]

Thief (Daredevil and Deadeye), Willbender, Harbinger are probably the most popular at the moment. Willbender and Harbinger are also probably the easiest. 

Also strong specs are: Soulbeast, Mirage, Catalyst, Berserker, Spellbreaker, Vindicator. Those can be probably equally as strong as the specs above, but they might take a bit more effort and knowledge. Still very very strong in the right hands though.

[Dawdler.8521]

Dd if you never want to die (if you do it’s your own fault), willbender if you want to teleport roflstomp with stupid amounts of damage.

Then you got what is apparently the new FOTM, virtuoso. I see them everywhere now. But maybe it’s just an illusion.

Edited 13 hours ago by Dawdler.8521

[Gaiawolf.8261]

I see support classes are getting underrepresented here again....

<-----------

We can make thieves even more deadly and unkillable! LOL. So ....

It's thief. Of course it's thief!

[One more for the road.8950]

Depends if you're lone wolfing, duoing or having some people run beside you or in your party.

[Anekto.8391]

1 minute ago, One more for the road.8950 said:

Depends if you're lone wolfing, duoing or having some people run beside you or in your party.

My definition of roaming includes, scouting, defending objective without commi/or without being in zerg, dueling if necessary ( caught off guard, off objective), and group play till maybe maximum of 15 ppl(maybe more like 10) without changing build.

[One more for the road.8950]

10 minutes ago, Anekto.8391 said:

My definition of roaming includes, scouting, defending objective without commi/or without being in zerg, dueling if necessary ( caught off guard, off objective), and group play till maybe maximum of 15 ppl(maybe more like 10) without changing build.

That is such a wide definition that a lot of these have different BIS depending on the situation and amount of people, and changing builds and adapting depending on content is best practice.

When you're as high as 10-15 people you're a havoc group, really.

If you are a player that can't be bothered to change or haven't learned enough to do it in a way that makes an impact, it all depends on your preferred play style. Something might be a very strong profession build, but it doesn't matter if it's counterintuitive to your instinctive play style. Unless you are good at adapting and changing, and then we are back at what I said on top.

Edited 13 hours ago by One more for the road.8950

[Anekto.8391]

18 minutes ago, One more for the road.8950 said:

That is such a wide definition that a lot of these have different BIS depending on the situation and amount of people, and changing builds and adapting depending on content is best practice.

Ok, lets assume without changing builds. Is the definition still ok?

I do occasionally change builds ( and used to change classes) but i dont like micro managing a lot so i try to do in each situation i referred to that what my build allows me to do!

EDIT:

What definition of roaming would you give? Also maybe you can answer with that definition the original question then !

Edited 12 hours ago by Anekto.8391
Original Question

[CafPow.1542]

A lot of correct things said. I’d like to give one more point:

-> the one you feel most comfy with.

thief could be buffed by 200% across the board and i would still suck on this class. I saw every (!) spec (yes 36 of them) delete me without me even being able to drop them below 95%.
and i killed every specc (all 36 aswell) while they didn’t have a chance.

it‘s really more what you can do with it in the end. „Making it work“ is possible with anything.

 

this is the „not meta“ annswer.

 

edit: wait. Let’s only say 35 specs.

because never in my life i saw a core-revenant.

Edited 12 hours ago by CafPow.1542

[Mimizu.7340]

I roam with 30 characters, 27 for dedicated elite specialisations and 3 core ( at some point I will get to 9 core, making 36 in all).

The performance of each varies greatly and is not just dependent on the strength of the individual builds but also how well I play them and how much I enjoy playing them.

All the above points made by others are valid.

Playing a strong build, playing it well and enjoying playing it = BiS

Whatever I am roaming with, the majority of my deaths are dealt by willbenders, then thieves (all specs and core), then harbingers/virtuosos.

Make of that what you will, but willbenders are overperforming for minimal effort and the ability to reset combat via stealth is always handy.

[CafPow.1542]

3 minutes ago, Mimizu.7340 said:

the majority of my deaths are dealt by willbenders, then thieves (all specs and core), then harbingers/virtuosos.

Same. Or mirage.

or fall damage. *blush*

[Cyninja.2954]

10 hours ago, Anekto.8391 said:

Ok, lets assume without changing builds. Is the definition still ok?

I do occasionally change builds ( and used to change classes) but i dont like micro managing a lot so i try to do in each situation i referred to that what my build allows me to do!

EDIT:

What definition of roaming would you give?

In your definition alone you are already covering 3 different group sizes:

- solo

- up to 5 man

- small/havoc squad

Each of those is already a game type onto their own IF you are considering "best in slot". Sure you can run some builds in all 3 of those group sizes, but none will be best in slot for all sizes.

Then you need to "define" roaming its self. Are you looking for 1-trick 1-shot builds? Those will get you a ton of kills against pleb players (which the majority are) or against players on squad builds running to catch up to their squad.

Are you looking for sustained builds where you can actually duel and fight an equally skilled opponent? What about 1vX where you are relying on poor play/builds to take on multiple players?

Thief and its different variations remains one of the strongest solo roamers by simple fact hat thiefs get to chose when to engage and disengage. While being one of the most mobile classes. You might get run down by a WIllbender or roaming warrior, but that's then your own fault for not paying attention to your opponents cooldowns. Thief is by no definition easy though, there are a LOT of trash thiefs and while the class draws a lot of hate, being actually good at it against good opponents takes some practice. Killing or avoiding plebs on thief is easier than on most other classes though.

Basically every class has some type of roaming build which can perform against weak opponents. Roaming Spellbreakers, grenade engis, virtuoso, harbinger, power/condi rangers, etc. It just depends on how good you are at your class and more important: how well you know what you are up against.

If you really want a "best in slot" roaming class, you'd at the very least need to consider the entire professions specs. At which point you are looking at multiple builds on multiple elite specializations with multiple play-styles (not to mention gear).

To mention a few (from small scale to squad but in some cases the same):

Guardian - power Willbender - power/condi DH/Firebrand - power/support DH/FB

Engineer - power nade Scrapper (or any nade build) - power holo, support scrapper

Necromancer - harbinger - power reaper - corrupt scourge/reaper

etc.

Edited 2 hours ago by Cyninja.2954

[Anekto.8391]

3 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Basically every class has some type of roaming build which can perform against weak oponnents. Roaming Spellbreakers, grenade engis, virtuoso, harbinger, power/condi rangers, etc. It just depends on how good you are at your class and more important: how well you know what you are up against.

Thanks for the informative post and considering multiple views!

So you are saying towards the top of the skill ladder, most classes can do alot similar to other classes(for lets call it roaming success or success)? And that thief if put in the effort shines a lot?

9 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Thief and its different variations remains one of the strongest solo roamers by simple fact hat thiefs get to chose when to engage and disengage.

This is my suspicion too!

I wonder what your go to profession is or if you play everything? Do you play thief or thief main?

[Cyninja.2954]

19 minutes ago, Anekto.8391 said:

Thanks for the informative post and considering multiple views!

So you are saying towards the top of the skill ladder, most classes can do alot similar to other classes(for lets call it roaming success or success)? And that thief if put in the effort shines a lot?

No, towards the top of the skill ladder it becomes more and more important to have the superior build versus you opponent, at similar skill levels. This is valid across any similar level of skill. Which is why some builds are more favored or see more play. These builds are already superior and then players are able to attain more success on those builds across a wider range.

Instead, as a player becomes more skilled, he will be able to outplay lesser skilled players on more and more builds, but might to chose to have an "easy time" by bringing a strong build or challenge themselves by bringing a weaker build.
 

Quote

 

I wonder what your go to profession is or if you play everything? Do you play thief or thief main?

 

I am indeed a multi class player both in PvE and WvW. I do prefer support roles for larger fights (simply because those are usually the ones in short supply) but will run boon rip/denial.

When I roam I tend to go with what I am enjoying at the moment profession wise, be it spellbreaker, willbender, harbinger, soulbeast, etc. Sometimes picking flavor of the month builds, sometimes gimmick builds, sometimes just builds I feel like playing because I haven't played that profession in a while or want to try something.

[Anekto.8391]

1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Instead, as a player becomes more skilled, he will be able to outplay lesser skilled players on more and more builds, but might to chose to have an "easy time" by bringing a strong build or challenge themselves by bringing a weaker build.

Thanks again! This makes a lot of sense!

2 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

When I roam I tend to go with what I am enjoying at the moment profession wise, be it spellbreaker, willbender, harbinger, soulbeast, etc. Sometimes picking flavor of the month builds, sometimes gimmick builds, sometimes just builds I feel like playing because I haven't played that profession in a while or want to try something.

So someone who likes to enjoy the diverse aspects of the game and trying stuff out! This is a good approach 🙂

[CafPow.1542]

6 minutes ago, Anekto.8391 said:

So someone who likes to enjoy the diverse aspects of the game and trying stuff out! This is a good approach 🙂

It is, especially cause you better learn how others work so you can better outplay them.

but it is also a matter of character. I usually have 1 main (that i might swap after a few months) but in this time, nothing else is fun for me.

as mentioned. If it’s not fun for you to play, you don’t like to play so you quit. 
I envy players like cyninja a bit tbh. I wish i could bring up the energy / motivation to multiclass so hard. Just male the best out of what you have tho and try to keep have fun even if it’s a lame cele build. That’s what i do. ^^

[Gaiawolf.8261]

18 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Just male the best out of what you have tho and try to keep have fun even if it’s a lame cele build. That’s what i do. ^^

It's important to work your men and get the most out of them. That's what God made them for. 😉

[ilMasa.2546]

6 hours ago, Anekto.8391 said:

As the title suggests ! Which class is best in slot for roaming?

 

Are there trade offs between classes? What class is unnoticed for roamers and secretly op? As in not yet meta? Anyone wanna share some secrets?

 

EDIT:

I want to hear some opinions and discuss but if you can support it by data and logic i would be even more happy!

 imo, it really depends on the build you use.

Classes like a thief or a mesmer, with access to stealth, make excellent gankers.
Exactly like trapper rangers or trapper dragonhunters were back in the day,despite not having very notable access to stealth

BUT having said that it really depends on the build you use and the knowledge you have of the game.
I personally don't use meta builds (I don't like the idea of meta in general) so I roam with whatever I like to play and when im roaming i see a little bit of everything.

I can't say that there is a BIS for roaming, at most I can say that there are classes that have an easier life due to certain disengagement and engagement mechanics.

[Anekto.8391]

1 minute ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

I personally don't use meta builds (I don't like the idea of meta in general) so I roam with whatever I like to play and when im roaming i see a little bit of everything.

What is your go to profession and what do you like to roam on? If you are not running meta what meta do you encounter on your roams?

[RisingDawn.5796]

Thief and willbender, because mobility is king while solo roaming, but then you can make other classes and specs work with certain builds and good map awareness.

5 man party would depend on content if you run havoc or run into similar sized and compee groups, but you need a primary and secondary support, DPS, corrupts/strips like a necro and maybe a chrono or renegade.

[H K.4057]

For solo roaming, my criteria for good builds are:

1. Mobility. The build must have the mobility to disengage from any outnumbered fight or bad matchup.
2. Damage. The build must have the ability to apply their damage easily and finish fights quickly.

You will note that having good sustain is not a criteria that I consider important when rating solo roaming builds. The reason is that the need for good sustain can be reduced drastically with good positioning, good map awareness, and good mobility. While the build should have enough health to survive a burst from another roaming build, it's not an absolute must for the build to be able to tank damage. No amount of sustain will help you survive a gank group, and it's not worth compromising mobility or damage to be tankier.

With that in mind, the top of the food chain solo roaming builds are:

1. Power Rifle Deadeye. This build has very easy access to copious amounts of stealth using dodges with Silent Scope, insane mobility with Rifle 4, and crazy burst damage from 1500 range. You also have access to a cele build that spams immobilize and is basically unkillable, but the power build is already so good that you don't really need to be cele unless you are trolling. The trick to killing this build is to have several builds with good mobility chasing, and then several builds with good mobility shadowing the DE waiting for a burst opportunity. Not really feasible with the average wvw player being terrible, but I've farmed this build before with 3-4 good roamers.
2. Power Willbender. This build has insane burst, insane mobility, and incredible sustain if played and built correctly. There are many different iterations of this build, from the more balanced Mace/Shield to the burst of Longbow. I haven't seen a lot of SpearBenders, but the ones that I have seen have been absolutely incredible. There is no need to play Cele WB because Power is just so good. The trick to killing this build is 2-3 good roamers with great mobility. Survive their burst, burst them back, then chase them down. WB mobility makes it a bit harder, but landing just 1 CC while they are running can get you the kill because it lets other slower chasers catch up.
3. Power Spear Spellbreaker. This build has very good mobility, incredible sustain, nutty burst, and crazy CC chains. One big issue with older SB builds was that they were often double melee, which meant you could just kite their damage. With spear, the damage application is incredibly hard to avoid. This build is not as mobile as the WB and DE builds, but it makes up for it with its incredible sustain and incredible CC chains. Chase this build at your own risk because you will often find yourself 100-0 in one CC chain when the SB turns around. The trick to killing this build is to just be better than the SB or get 2-3 good roamers. The SB only having good, but not great, mobility gives you a lot more options while fighting it.

I don't consider other solo roaming builds, including degenerate stuff like Cele Harb, to be S-tier simply because they have large vulnerabilities that you can exploit. The lack of good mobility means those builds die to any +1 and can't chase down anyone 1v1. The lack of good damage application means they can be kited forever. Can you do well with these other builds? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean they are S-tier.

[Anekto.8391]

9 minutes ago, H K.4057 said:

I don't consider other solo roaming builds, including degenerate stuff like Cele Harb, to be S-tier simply because they have large vulnerabilities that you can exploit. The lack of good mobility means those builds die to any +1 and can't chase down anyone 1v1. The lack of good damage application means they can be kited forever. Can you do well with these other builds? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean they are S-tier.

Very interesting and thanks for the insight! Didnt expect warrior in there tbh but i think its worth checking out how you describe it. Seen lots of thieves forever and seen lots of willbenders since release. I always had a soft spot for warrior players just because they seem to have chosen a class against very disadvantagous odds. Spear willbenders im basically encountering "all the time now". It seems to add a lot for ppl to change it up.