Legendary Armor

[Feanor.2358]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.If it was all that was required, you'd find almost noone asking about easy/story mode. And noone complaining about legendary armor. Just as practically noone really complained about the map completion requirement, unless it was used as an argument in a thread about something else (most commonly legendary armor).

I disagree, on both accounts.

First, you'll find a lot of people complaining just about everything. Most of it boils down to "this game is making me do stuff instead of giving it with no effort on my side".Second, the dislike about world completion is a common theme among the hardcore WvW crowd. I've witnessed talks about that on multiple accounts, with different people involved. Just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there.

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.

It takes more than desire. A willingness and opportunity to act on that desire is also required. My 80 hour work weeks, on top of other responsibilities, have stood in the way of my want to do other things on multiple occasions.

Well obviously. With 80 work hours a week you can't realistically expect to achieve endgame goals in a game designed to be played thousands of hours. I'd say you're more of an exception rather than a rule though. You don't expect that the majority of the people complaining all work that much, do you?

[Henry.5713]

It comes down to personal preference in the end. The three "raid legendary" armor sets I own combined were less of a grind to me than my Aurora. Only bothered with it because I really wanted Aurora for the fashion wars and it took me forever. Can't be arsed to do so with the majority of the HoT legendary weapons. WvW legendaries are basically given to you for free if you enjoy any aspect of WvW. They are just a matter of time if you enjoy the content.Legendaries are special, they should be special, they should require you to spend time and effort. You might get lucky by having these legendaries require you to play your most favorite type of content or you might not. But one thing is certain - it takes a special kind of player to own absolutely every legendary item in the game.

If you really (yes, I mean REALLY) want anything in this game then you can obtain it eventually. You might have long working hours or a huge family, multiple wives (or husbands, I don't discriminate) or whichever other reasons to slow you down and you might be way slower than others but it is still possible.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Feanor.2358" said:So, you're saying that the difficulty of raids is the same as the difficulty of open world? Because that's what "just wanting to" means. That raiding is no more difficult and takes no more effort than getting a map complete.

[Feanor.2358]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:So, you're saying that the difficulty of raids is the same as the difficulty of open world? Because that's what "just wanting to" means. That raiding is no more difficult and takes no more effort than getting a map complete.

No, I'm saying that difficulty isn't an issue. If you want something done, then you go and play. If it's difficult, you practice and you beat it. If you're not doing that and you're looking for excuses, then in general you just don't want it enough. In some cases that's understandable, like real life taking precedence. But in the vast majority of cases it's just players expecting to get everything without breaking a sweat.

[Ashen.2907]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.If it was all that was required, you'd find almost noone asking about easy/story mode. And noone complaining about legendary armor. Just as practically noone really complained about the map completion requirement, unless it was used as an argument in a thread about something else (most commonly legendary armor).

I disagree, on both accounts.

First, you'll find a lot of people complaining just about everything. Most of it boils down to "this game is making me do stuff instead of giving it with no effort on my side".Second, the dislike about world completion is a common theme among the hardcore WvW crowd. I've witnessed talks about that on multiple accounts, with different people involved. Just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there.

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.

It takes more than desire. A willingness and opportunity to act on that desire is also required. My 80 hour work weeks, on top of other responsibilities, have stood in the way of my want to do other things on multiple occasions.

Well obviously. With 80 work hours a week you can't realistically expect to achieve endgame goals in a game designed to be played thousands of hours. I'd say you're more of an exception rather than a rule though. You don't expect that the majority of the people complaining all work that much, do you?

So you agree that it takes more than desire. Thank you.

[Feanor.2358]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.If it was all that was required, you'd find almost noone asking about easy/story mode. And noone complaining about legendary armor. Just as practically noone really complained about the map completion requirement, unless it was used as an argument in a thread about something else (most commonly legendary armor).

I disagree, on both accounts.

First, you'll find a lot of people complaining just about everything. Most of it boils down to "this game is making me do stuff instead of giving it with no effort on my side".Second, the dislike about world completion is a common theme among the hardcore WvW crowd. I've witnessed talks about that on multiple accounts, with different people involved. Just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there.

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.

It takes more than desire. A willingness and opportunity to act on that desire is also required. My 80 hour work weeks, on top of other responsibilities, have stood in the way of my want to do other things on multiple occasions.

Well obviously. With 80 work hours a week you can't realistically expect to achieve endgame goals in a game designed to be played thousands of hours. I'd say you're more of an exception rather than a rule though. You don't expect that the majority of the people complaining all work that much, do you?

So you agree that it takes more than desire. Thank you.

Nice cherry-picking only what you want to hear. Keep looking for excuses.

[Oglaf.1074]

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Adry.7512 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Fenom.9457 said:Or anyone at all except raiders

PvPers.

WvWers.

Wvw and pvp has its own version of legendary armor and imo the wvw one is the best out of all of them

I think the point of most of the Legendary Armor complaints is that each game mode doesn't have its own version of Legendary armor SKINS. Raids have Envoy skins, but WvW and PvP just have duplicate Ascended skins. People tend to separate Raids from PvE, which would mean that PvE doesn't have a version of Legendary Armor at all.

No, my point was that to say that Legendary Armour is Raid-exclusive is nonsense.

(look at the post made by the guy I originally replied to)

As to your point, you really don't have one because only the skins are Raid exclusive, not the armor.

/facedesk

That

is

my point.

Again, you need to look up the whole conversation before chiming in.

I have read the entire thing. Your inability to comprehend what you've read is not my problem. I didn't mention you at all, until you said I was wrong because I said MOST people. This is far from the only thread on the subject and most of them specifically mention wanting unique skins per game mode. It's pretty clear that MOST of these people are aware that they can get generic versions of Legendary Armor, but the main draw of Legendary items is the skins. Being obtuse about what they're asking for isn't helping anyone.

Entirely irrelevant to the fact that you decided to jump down my throat based on you totally misunderstanding my reply.

But whatever.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:So, you're saying that the difficulty of raids is the same as the difficulty of open world? Because that's what "just wanting to" means. That raiding is no more difficult and takes no more effort than getting a map complete.

No, I'm saying that difficulty isn't an issue. If you want something done, then you go and play. If it's difficult, you practice and you beat it. If you're not doing that and you're looking for excuses, then in general you just don't want it enough. In some cases that's understandable, like real life taking precedence. But in the vast majority of cases it's just players expecting to get everything without breaking a sweat.You are saying difficulty isn't an issue, because it isn't for you. For others, it is. In general, to beat raids, desire is not enough. You also need to put in a lot of effort and time that is on completely different scale to the one you'd have to put for map completion. And (unlike with map completion), you are

not

guaranteed the result.

So, map completion for legendary weapons: desire, a little bit of effort and a guaranteed result. Ability to bypass it completely with TP.Getting leg armor unlocks and 150 LI: desire, a ton of effort, and there's no amount of effort that might guarantee a result (some people will need far, far more than others, for some the amount of effort will be prohibitively high and place the end result out of reach). Can't buy it on TP (might theoretically buy runs, but the cost is prohibitively high, and some collection elements simply cannot be bought, and even with this you'd need to participate).

Yeah, fully comparable...[/sarcasm]

[STIHL.2489]

I hate to say it, because I have been against raids in this game for a long time, and I still think they never should have been put in, but, at this point, this is how raids are supposed to work and have worked in every single other game they exist in, with the 'best' items locked behind them, and everyone that does not like that, too bad. That is how raids work in all other MMO's and that is how they will work here.

Such is the nature of things, if that upsets you, well good luck finding some other game that will give you as much as GW2 does.

[SkyFallsInThunder.8257]

Guild Wars 2 tries somewhat to promote the good players, and legendary armor is such a way.I don't think adding an open world PvE version would be a good idea, especially since raids are not so hard.The thing is you can still get legendary armor even without raids, if you PvP or WvW, but that also requires some dedication.Gone are the days when you could just buy legendaries, and I say that is a good change.Usually people just join raid-oriented guilds if they want to get their armor.Don't worry though, you will find the secret to getting legendary armor easy if you read the first letter of every line from my post.

[Ashen.2907]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.If it was all that was required, you'd find almost noone asking about easy/story mode. And noone complaining about legendary armor. Just as practically noone really complained about the map completion requirement, unless it was used as an argument in a thread about something else (most commonly legendary armor).

I disagree, on both accounts.

First, you'll find a lot of people complaining just about everything. Most of it boils down to "this game is making me do stuff instead of giving it with no effort on my side".Second, the dislike about world completion is a common theme among the hardcore WvW crowd. I've witnessed talks about that on multiple accounts, with different people involved. Just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there.

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.

It takes more than desire. A willingness and opportunity to act on that desire is also required. My 80 hour work weeks, on top of other responsibilities, have stood in the way of my want to do other things on multiple occasions.

Well obviously. With 80 work hours a week you can't realistically expect to achieve endgame goals in a game designed to be played thousands of hours. I'd say you're more of an exception rather than a rule though. You don't expect that the majority of the people complaining all work that much, do you?

So you agree that it takes more than desire. Thank you.

Nice cherry-picking only what you want to hear. Keep looking for excuses.

Not looking for excuses. You claim that it requires only desire. When someone commented that it needed just a little more than just desire you denied that even a little more than desire is required.

You are mistaken. More than just desire is required. You have acknowledged this fact. Fact, not opinion.

[videoboy.4162]

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Adry.7512 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Fenom.9457 said:Or anyone at all except raiders

PvPers.

WvWers.

Wvw and pvp has its own version of legendary armor and imo the wvw one is the best out of all of them

I think the point of most of the Legendary Armor complaints is that each game mode doesn't have its own version of Legendary armor SKINS. Raids have Envoy skins, but WvW and PvP just have duplicate Ascended skins. People tend to separate Raids from PvE, which would mean that PvE doesn't have a version of Legendary Armor at all.

No, my point was that to say that Legendary Armour is Raid-exclusive is nonsense.

(look at the post made by the guy I originally replied to)

As to your point, you really don't have one because only the skins are Raid exclusive, not the armor.

/facedesk

That

is

my point.

Again, you need to look up the whole conversation before chiming in.

I have read the entire thing. Your inability to comprehend what you've read is not my problem. I didn't mention you at all, until you said I was wrong because I said MOST people. This is far from the only thread on the subject and most of them specifically mention wanting unique skins per game mode. It's pretty clear that MOST of these people are aware that they can get generic versions of Legendary Armor, but the main draw of Legendary items is the skins. Being obtuse about what they're asking for isn't helping anyone.

Entirely irrelevant to the fact that you decided to jump down my throat based on you totally misunderstanding my reply.

But whatever.

You waited two days to bring this back up? You copped an attitude with me just to tell me I was wrong about what you said, when I was replying to another poster entirely, then acted like some sort of victim. Just let it go.

[Feanor.2358]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.If it was all that was required, you'd find almost noone asking about easy/story mode. And noone complaining about legendary armor. Just as practically noone really complained about the map completion requirement, unless it was used as an argument in a thread about something else (most commonly legendary armor).

I disagree, on both accounts.

First, you'll find a lot of people complaining just about everything. Most of it boils down to "this game is making me do stuff instead of giving it with no effort on my side".Second, the dislike about world completion is a common theme among the hardcore WvW crowd. I've witnessed talks about that on multiple accounts, with different people involved. Just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there.

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.

It takes more than desire. A willingness and opportunity to act on that desire is also required. My 80 hour work weeks, on top of other responsibilities, have stood in the way of my want to do other things on multiple occasions.

Well obviously. With 80 work hours a week you can't realistically expect to achieve endgame goals in a game designed to be played thousands of hours. I'd say you're more of an exception rather than a rule though. You don't expect that the majority of the people complaining all work that much, do you?

So you agree that it takes more than desire. Thank you.

Nice cherry-picking only what you want to hear. Keep looking for excuses.

Not looking for excuses. You claim that it requires only desire. When someone commented that it needed just a little more than just desire you denied that even a little more than desire is required.

You are mistaken. More than just desire is required. You have acknowledged this fact. Fact, not opinion.

No, I'm not. Read carefully. I just said I understand why someone would to prioritize his real life over a game. In other words, I understand why he wants to do something IRL instead in the game. You can reduce almost everything to a matter of desire.

[Feanor.2358]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:So, you're saying that the difficulty of raids is the same as the difficulty of open world? Because that's what "just wanting to" means. That raiding is no more difficult and takes no more effort than getting a map complete.

No, I'm saying that difficulty isn't an issue. If you want something done, then you go and play. If it's difficult, you practice and you beat it. If you're not doing that and you're looking for excuses, then in general you just don't want it enough. In some cases that's understandable, like real life taking precedence. But in the vast majority of cases it's just players expecting to get everything without breaking a sweat.You are saying difficulty isn't an issue, because it isn't for you. For others, it is. In general, to beat raids, desire is not enough. You also need to put in a lot of effort and time that is on completely different scale to the one you'd have to put for map completion. And (unlike with map completion), you are

not

guaranteed the result.

So, map completion for legendary weapons: desire, a little bit of effort and a guaranteed result. Ability to bypass it completely with TP.Getting leg armor unlocks and 150 LI: desire, a ton of effort, and there's no amount of effort that might guarantee a result (some people will need far, far more than others, for some the amount of effort will be prohibitively high and place the end result out of reach). Can't buy it on TP (might theoretically buy runs, but the cost is prohibitively high, and some collection elements simply

cannot

be bought, and even with this you'd need to participate).

Yeah, fully comparable...[/sarcasm]

You're underestimating the effort it takes for world completion (I know, I've done several) and you're overestimating the effort it takes to raid successfully (I know, I've made the journey from non-raider to raider). On a side note, good luck bypassing requirements on gen 2 weapons.

You're also overplaying the uncertainty. If you're playing the content, you'll beat it. Simple as that. Raiders aren't born with some special divine skill. It's just a matter of practice, nothing more, nothing less.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Feanor.2358 said:You're underestimating the effort it takes for world completion (I know, I've done several) and you're overestimating the effort it takes to raid successfully (I know, I've made the journey from non-raider to raider). On a side note, good luck bypassing requirements on gen 2 weapons.No, i'm not. I have done all of those as well, so i can compare. Especially with mounts now, map completion is extremely easy. It may take some time, that's true, but you're able to push it forward PoI after PoI, HP after HP, Vista after Vista, with only minimal effort needed for each step. No training or heavy preparations necessary. That's definitely not true of raids. For them, you do need that training and preparations if you even want a chance of succeeding. And that's exactly what those offer. Just a chance.

@Feanor.2358 said:You're also overplaying the uncertainty. If you're playing the content, you'll beat it. Simple as that. Raiders aren't born with some special divine skill. It's just a matter of practice, nothing more, nothing less.Sure, but the amount of practice is different for everyone. I have seen players who were ready within a week from seeing the higher difficulty instanced content for the first time. I have also seen players that weren't ready after a year of training and practicing few days a week, every week, for a year. those from the first category will have no problem whatsoever, and will likely be surprised that there are some players that might have problems with that content at all. Those from the latter group however are unlikely to clear the hurdle unless they'll get carried by other, better players. Which is something that can happen, but is definitely not something that can be guaranteed.

[Tails.9372]

@"Adry.7512" said:Wvw and pvp has its own version of legendary armor and imo the wvw one is the best out of all of themTechnically they both have two and yes I agree, the tier 3 WvW one is "the best" but only because of the ley-linie tentacle thingies.

@Feanor.2358 said:You're underestimating the effort it takes for world completion (I know, I've done several) and you're overestimating the effort it takes to raid successfully (I know, I've made the journey from non-raider to raider). On a side note, good luck bypassing requirements on gen 2 weapons.

You're also overplaying the uncertainty. If you're playing the content, you'll beat it. Simple as that. Raiders aren't born with some special divine skill. It's just a matter of practice, nothing more, nothing less.You shouldn't be the one to complain about something like this after you willfully ignored that it only takes like 1-2 weeks of farming open world events in order to buy a gen 1 lagendary from the trading post and only takes like 3-4 weeks a piece of doing stuff which makes events in starting areas look difficult by comparison for a lagendary armor set.

[Feanor.2358]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:You're underestimating the effort it takes for world completion (I know, I've done several) and you're overestimating the effort it takes to raid successfully (I know, I've made the journey from non-raider to raider). On a side note, good luck bypassing requirements on gen 2 weapons.No, i'm not. I have done all of those as well, so i can compare. Especially with mounts now, map completion is extremely easy. It may take some time, that's true, but you're able to push it forward PoI after PoI, HP after HP, Vista after Vista, with only minimal effort needed for each step. No training or heavy preparations necessary. That's definitely not true of raids. For them, you do need that training and preparations if you even want a

chance

of succeeding. And that's exactly what those offer. Just a chance.

@Feanor.2358 said:You're also overplaying the uncertainty. If you're playing the content, you'll beat it. Simple as that. Raiders aren't born with some special divine skill. It's just a matter of practice, nothing more, nothing less.Sure, but the amount of practice is different for everyone. I have seen players who were ready within a week from seeing the higher difficulty instanced content for the first time. I have also seen players that weren't ready after a year of training and practicing few days a week, every week, for a year. those from the first category will have no problem whatsoever, and will likely be surprised that there are some players that might have problems with that content at all. Those from the latter group however are unlikely to clear the hurdle unless they'll get carried by other, better players. Which is something that can happen, but is definitely not something that can be guaranteed.

I've yet to see an active raider who hasn't succeeded. In my experience those who don't succeed are those who aren't actually interested in the content. The rest are always eager to try, always trying to figure out what's wrong, to think of way to counter it, and eventually they do. The mechanical skills aren't an issue, those are trainable. You don't need to raid for these either. Practice on the golem, play your build in fractal parties, or even in the open world. It all gives you experience, makes you comfortable playing it. The only thing that differentiates a raider from a non-raider is the mentality, the desire to raid.

@Tails.9372 said:

@"Adry.7512" said:Wvw and pvp has its own version of legendary armor and imo the wvw one is the best out of all of themTechnically they both have two and yes I agree, the tier 3 WvW one is "the best" but only because of the ley-linie tentacle thingies.

@Feanor.2358 said:You're underestimating the effort it takes for world completion (I know, I've done several) and you're overestimating the effort it takes to raid successfully (I know, I've made the journey from non-raider to raider). On a side note, good luck bypassing requirements on gen 2 weapons.

You're also overplaying the uncertainty. If you're playing the content, you'll beat it. Simple as that. Raiders aren't born with some special divine skill. It's just a matter of practice, nothing more, nothing less.You shouldn't be the one to complain about something like this after you willfully ignored that it only takes like 1-2 weeks of farming open world events in order to buy a gen 1 lagendary from the trading post and only takes like 3-4 weeks a piece of doing stuff which makes events in starting areas look difficult by comparison for a lagendary armor set.

You can farm 3k in 2 weeks? Yea, right.

[Kronos.3695]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.

It takes more than desire. A willingness and opportunity to act on that desire is also required. My 80 hour work weeks, on top of other responsibilities, have stood in the way of my want to do other things on multiple occasions.

If you work 80 hours a week (wich is too much for every work unless you're a doctor) you can't really expect to achieve everything in a MMO.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Oh, come on, raiding is also just a matter of wanting to.We both know it requires a "little" bit more than that.

Nope. I know it requires exactly that.If it was all that was required, you'd find almost noone asking about easy/story mode. And noone complaining about legendary armor. Just as practically noone really complained about the map completion requirement, unless it was used as an argument in a thread about something else (most commonly legendary armor).

Maybe because you have to put a little effort in it and people just want to 11111111 on open world?Let me tell you a story: we had a guild member who was afraid of raids and their "difficulty", so we just said to him to follow a guide for wing 1 and 4, fix his build and equipment and practice on his rotation and then to come on our scheduled raid event. We did the bosses with him doing just a couple of mistakes 'cause he didn't understand some of the mechanics by just reading the guides. We asked him if was that hard and he replied that he was actually easy just following something who someone achieve in the past.If you're not doing progress and the mechanics are unknown, raid are really easy on Guild Wars 2, but of course you have to place yourself in the right mind setup and try them.

I've never seen someone who tried to raid with the intention to finish them and never succeded.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Feanor.2358 said:I've yet to see an active raider who hasn't succeeded.When i have mentioned training for a year and still not being ready, i was not exagerrating. I do know people like that. And they were really trying. There was even progress - just not enough. Mind you, that requires a terrifying perseverance. Most people would quit way before.

@Feanor.2358 said:In my experience those who don't succeed are those who aren't actually interested in the content. The rest are always eager to try, always trying to figure out what's wrong, to think of way to counter it, and eventually they do.That's true for many, but not for everyone. The truth is, that everyone has a certain threshold of effort put to results ratio that defines what they are willing to do and what not.Some are more easily discouraged, others are more stubborn, but everyone has a point beyond which they'd just give up. And the point you're missing is that not only that threshold is different for each potential raider, but so is the amount of effort needed to see the results. There are raiders out there that are among people that easily give up, but so it happens that for them learning was completely effortless. There are people with immense desire and willpower that still have given up, because for them it took a massive amount of effort for each step. And there are also other factors involved - for example, whether you can learn alongside friends, or not. If you have friends learning alongside you, willing to help you learn, or even willing to carry you, that obviously helps a lot, as it either lowers the strain learning causes, or causes you to see satisfactory (for you) results all that much faster, or both. So, in the end, you can't really say that the succesful player had a bigger desire or interest in the content than the unsuccesful one, because that desire and interest are not the only factors here.

@Feanor.2358 said:The mechanical skills aren't an issue, those are trainable. You don't need to raid for these either. Practice on the golem, play your build in fractal parties, or even in the open world. It all gives you experience, makes you comfortable playing it. The only thing that differentiates a raider from a non-raider is the mentality, the desire to raid.I have known many raiders that had no special desire for it. They just plain found that content easy, and didn't need to put any effort in learning anything. I have also known people that've put way, way more effort and willpower into it, and still found their skills wanting. Yes, mechanics are learnable, and do not take all that much time either, that's true. The real problem (one that cannot be trained so easily, and is a insurmountable barrier for some) is the reaction time and ability to divide your attention to track multiple mechanics at once. Some people just can't do that no matter how much they train. Which is something people that do not have those problems generally do not understand (because they themselves didn't need to train it at all, for them it was never something they'd have to even think about).

@"Kronos.3695" said:Let me tell you a story: we had a guild member who was afraid of raids and their "difficulty", so we just said to him to follow a guide for wing 1 and 4, fix his build and equipment and practice on his rotation and then to come on our scheduled raid event. We did the bosses with him doing just a couple of mistakes 'cause he didn't understand some of the mechanics by just reading the guides. We asked him if was that hard and he replied that he was actually easy just following something who someone achieve in the past.Well, yeah, getting carried is indeed easy. If you have people to do the carrying. What if you don't, however?

[Laila Lightness.8742]

I wish there was dungeon legy amor

[artemis.6781]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:I wish there was dungeon legy amor

Me too!

[NorthernMoose.9617]

I can defiantly see them adding a more crafting based legendary armor set to PVE somewhere down the line, just as the legendary weapons have moved toward being more craft-able and less collection based

[narcx.3570]

@"Laila Lightness.8742" said:I wish there was dungeon legy amor

Literally every dungeon has it's own Armor skin set... And let's be honest, people are mad about raid legendaries cuz they want the "Proof I'm guud at the game" skin, not the stat swapping "convenience" of legendary armor's actual function--since they can just, you know, go grind WvW/PvP, never win a single match, and still obtain it legendary armor if that's what they really want it for.

That said, do you really think that completing Dungeons has the same aura of end game "Legendary achievement" that raiding or even pvp/wvw grinding has? Most of them aren't even level 80 content... Wouldn't it be silly if they rewarded level 80 ascended quality gear that you could start going for at level 35?