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People trying to justify scourge as balanced.

Razor.6392

By Razor.6392
in Player vs. Player

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Malafaia.8903

Malafaia.8903

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@Razor.6392 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:Jesus, now i understand why devs don't read the forums.You need another topic for crying? Isn't the 984867574 others enough?L2P dude, L2P...

Behold, the ___est user in this forum!

Yeah yeah, "if you don't agree with me, you're wrong".Typical MMO loser.

The counters are not viable in high tier, and no condi removal or deprivation of boons can keep up with their condi application. What argument have you presented?

As a main Druid i'll have to disagree HARD on this.

One of the few classes that can attempt to keep up with scourge's condi application says they're fine. And before you say it, long bow power druid isn't viable.

Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?

? It's obvious english isn't your first language so I'll stop now. Nice argument btw.

Lol, classic.

More like this statement:

"Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?"

Is completely incoherent. The druid build that works in high tiers is not the one that 'counters' scourge. I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying though.

Your great knowledge about the english language doesn't seems to pair with your knowledge about builds.Let me enlighten you a bit on the subject i know better:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Druid_-_Shoutbow

Or you can just switch Sw/W for LB here:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Druid_-_Bunker_Druid

I'm even using Ancient Seeds to laugh harder.

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Ten.2617

Ten.2617

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The problem with scourge is that shades does every thing at same time:

  • AoE damage with conditions.
  • AoE support with barrier.
  • AoE control with fear/corrupt.

The suggestion is Split these points in major mastery traits like holosmith's PF skills. And decrease the power of f2 - f5 skills.

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Malafaia.8903

Malafaia.8903

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@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Luciferior.4802 said:@Malafaia.8903 Aye remember what razor said "The counters are not viable in high tier" aye high bronze/silver tiers no viable counters! lol he is funny though I gota admit that he literally admitted there are counters to scourge yet they somehow aren't viable because this so called Higher level of play

Scourge drops aoe on the cap point people argue they cant leave or they somehow will lose the match ...instead they die in the circle and still likely lose the match. Scourge can be ranged down from a distance but once again people aren't allowed to leave the circle for a single moment to just idk kill the scourge.

So what we have learned here today is ....lets stand on the capture point that the scourge is going to AoE we know it is going to happen we are going to do it anyways but we are going to make some casual level excuses for our casual level of play to justify our not wanting to leave that fantastic circle people will die in it instead
Still lose the match
then proceed to get on the forums and make another forum thread saying scourge OP!

Noob scourge killed me while I was standing in this circle! I couldn't leave the circle or I might have lost the match! he put his aoes in the circle and I stood there! after enough lines the closing bit looks like ....Idk why I lost my match! ....I stood in the circle everytime! I also died in that circle when a scourge dropped his aoes on it and refused to move.

So I wonder what is worse for a team in terms of losing? refusing to simply get off point for a moment to kill a spec that is rather glassy or die repeatedly on point thinking because I'm pretty sure stepping off point for 15 seconds to kill a scourge is one thing as you can simply get back on point ....Or you can respawn which might possibly be at the other end of the map ...Hrmm

Not every single class has a range arsenal at his disposal, some classes do good only at melee range, so what they do during mid fight? They stay outside the shades watching the fight?

If they go to another point they leave mid outnumbered and you lose as soon the enemy team starts rotate properly.

If there is a duo firebrand plus scourge it's almost impossible getting him down before you get downed instead.

And the F1 skill has a 1200 range and it is so wide, and can be placed under your feet and a single tick give you 6 condis, cripple weakness torment.

90% of the cases if you get caught like that even condi cleanses are useless to escape, because you get condi bombed 1 second later again, and with cripple torment and all it is too hard to escape.

You step back the point and he places the shades on you anyway.

If it's a teamfight you wait for the right time to jump melee and burst the scourge to the grave?If you lose mid and gets home + far what's the problem?If you can't condi cleanse and escape, too bad mate, time to go unranked to practice some tricks.(i like your statistics clearly based on nothing but your feelings)

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Luciferior.4802

Luciferior.4802

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@whoknocks.4935 Every single class has a range option yes not all are as great as ranger but consider your usefulness if you stand on point and die in the circle which you end up losing anyways how are you being anymore helpful then stepping away to stay alive and apply some range? Or try playing a class that has some range damage or you can stand in the circle continue to die and get on the forums crying scourge OP like the rest of the players who havnt caught on lol your choice

@Razor.6392 Yes a counter to scourge is applying range ...I wouldn't expect you to have picked up on that going off some of your previous scourge posts id sooner believe you stand in the circles intentionally so they kill you and you have reason to cry about them.

I mean @whoknocks.4935 @Razor.6392 Are we really being serious here? DH had a very similar concept short of boon corrupt regarding scourge the ability to deny other players capture points while having some range ability yet the issue was always the same smart people like you two the DH placed his/her 5 traps on the big circle ...you witnessed said event and yet proceeded to run into the circle regardless and died after 2+years people finally caught on ...HODOR!!! DH traps ...circle ...Hrmm what is the likely out come of that? if anything DH had better options at range then scourge they could pull you in to the traps.

Where as scourge did what? they have the possibly for 3 shades to be up at once unless they had sand savant so if they threw the shade at you ...And you moved they would need to recast it ...If you like idk ...moved again he would yet again have to recast it again leaving him with only 1 shade left all you have to do is just like idk keep moving shade ammo CD is there so it isn't like they can just spew shades all day long unless they have the demonic lore trait instead.

Regardless of how you feel about the counters to scourge they do exist and they can be applied if you don't want to do that then feel free to kill dying and making forum posts about how you knew what to do but choose not to instead you died. Eventually the rest of the PvP community ....who ever is left will catch on about how to actually fight scourges so they don't need to run to the forums everytime 1 beats them.

After which time the only "Scourge OP thread makers will be @whoknocks.4935 @Razor.6392 people like you two"

If you actually considered your self to be semi competent at the game you would understand this very solid fact whether you choose to imply the counters to scourge or not is your choice but keep this in mind ...Arena Net is not likely going to nerf scourge any day soon if ever at all probably because the way to beating them isn't all that hard to understand it isn't outright "ez kek" it requires some effort but it is very doable.

So you in your infinite wisdom can either adapt and live while winning or stay stagnant and perish on that circle that you claim to hate @Razor.6392

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corey.6451

corey.6451

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There are 3 thing wrong with scourge.

  1. You can press all f2.f3.f4.f5 all at the same time, and it is instant cast, so no counter, no tell no sign for you to react, and the cooldown is extremely low.
  2. Firebrand support is really good. And the only viable way to kill them is power, but scourge will rekt you if you get near. And you cant even wait for an opening because scourge F skill has a really short cooldown.
  3. Because might is widely use. With scourge f2, every 4s they can corrupt might into weakness, and that will reduce the other team damage by half. And in it self make firebrand support much easier too and combine with perma protection, who ever run power build will does really low damage.

So when these 2 team together. You will get the mess you have today. It wont be a mess if other class is on the same par in term of damage and support, but we all know arm race will always end badly.

Basicly too much damage reduction, too much corruption, too much stun break, too much heal, too much clense with too little cool down. Make you think anet dont really care what their customer think anynore, just a careless mentality. If only they found a way to make money from pvp player. I dont even mind paying 5 quid a month if they actually take care of pvp tbh.

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Malafaia.8903

Malafaia.8903

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@corey.6451 said:There are 3 thing wrong with scourge.

  1. You can press all f2.f3.f4.f5 all at the same time, and it is instant cast, so no counter, no tell no sign for you to react, and the cooldown is extremely low.
  2. Firebrand support is really good. And the only viable way to kill them is power, but scourge will rekt you if you get near. And you cant even wait for an opening because scourge F skill has a really short cooldown.
  3. Because might is widely use. With scourge f2, every 4s they can corrupt might into weakness, and that will reduce the other team damage by half. And in it self make firebrand support much easier too and combine with perma protection, who ever run power build will does really low damage.

So when these 2 team together. You will get the mess you have today. It wont be a mess if other class is on the same par in term of damage and support, but we all know arm race will always end badly.

Basicly too much damage reduction, too much corruption, too much stun break, too much heal, too much clense with too little cool down. Make you think anet dont really care what their customer think anynore, just a careless mentality. If only they found a way to make money from pvp player. I dont even mind paying 5 quid a month if they actually take care of pvp tbh.

So, half the Scourge problems is Firebrand.

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corey.6451

corey.6451

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@Malafaia.8903 said:

@corey.6451 said:There are 3 thing wrong with scourge.
  1. You can press all f2.f3.f4.f5 all at the same time, and it is instant cast, so no counter, no tell no sign for you to react, and the cooldown is extremely low.
  2. Firebrand support is really good. And the only viable way to kill them is power, but scourge will rekt you if you get near. And you cant even wait for an opening because scourge F skill has a really short cooldown.
  3. Because might is widely use. With scourge f2, every 4s they can corrupt might into weakness, and that will reduce the other team damage by half. And in it self make firebrand support much easier too and combine with perma protection, who ever run power build will does really low damage.

So when these 2 team together. You will get the mess you have today. It wont be a mess if other class is on the same par in term of damage and support, but we all know arm race will always end badly.

Basicly too much damage reduction, too much corruption, too much stun break, too much heal, too much clense with too little cool down. Make you think anet dont really care what their customer think anynore, just a careless mentality. If only they found a way to make money from pvp player. I dont even mind paying 5 quid a month if they actually take care of pvp tbh.

So, half the Scourge problems is Firebrand.

Yes

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Malafaia.8903

Malafaia.8903

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@corey.6451 said:

@corey.6451 said:There are 3 thing wrong with scourge.
  1. You can press all f2.f3.f4.f5 all at the same time, and it is instant cast, so no counter, no tell no sign for you to react, and the cooldown is extremely low.
  2. Firebrand support is really good. And the only viable way to kill them is power, but scourge will rekt you if you get near. And you cant even wait for an opening because scourge F skill has a really short cooldown.
  3. Because might is widely use. With scourge f2, every 4s they can corrupt might into weakness, and that will reduce the other team damage by half. And in it self make firebrand support much easier too and combine with perma protection, who ever run power build will does really low damage.

So when these 2 team together. You will get the mess you have today. It wont be a mess if other class is on the same par in term of damage and support, but we all know arm race will always end badly.

Basicly too much damage reduction, too much corruption, too much stun break, too much heal, too much clense with too little cool down. Make you think anet dont really care what their customer think anynore, just a careless mentality. If only they found a way to make money from pvp player. I dont even mind paying 5 quid a month if they actually take care of pvp tbh.

So, half the Scourge problems is Firebrand.

Yes

I agree with you on this, lol.

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shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

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@Malafaia.8903 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:Jesus, now i understand why devs don't read the forums.You need another topic for crying? Isn't the 984867574 others enough?L2P dude, L2P...

Behold, the ___est user in this forum!

Yeah yeah, "if you don't agree with me, you're wrong".Typical MMO loser.

The counters are not viable in high tier, and no condi removal or deprivation of boons can keep up with their condi application. What argument have you presented?

As a main Druid i'll have to disagree HARD on this.

One of the few classes that can attempt to keep up with scourge's condi application says they're fine. And before you say it, long bow power druid isn't viable.

Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?

? It's obvious english isn't your first language so I'll stop now. Nice argument btw.

Lol, classic.

More like this statement:

"Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?"

Is completely incoherent. The druid build that works in high tiers is not the one that 'counters' scourge. I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying though.

Your great knowledge about the english language doesn't seems to pair with your knowledge about builds.Let me enlighten you a bit on the subject i know better:

Or you can just switch Sw/W for LB here:

I'm even using Ancient Seeds to laugh harder.

Shoutbow does not work against Scourges, nor is it a viable build to efficiently take them out of a fight. It also wouldn't hold up well in the current meta.

Bunker Druid will not be able to kill a Scourge under normal circumstances either. Permanent weakness on our already low damage and our pet, basically negates anything we throw at them. Whatever little damage we deal will be healed through easily, even if the Scourge does not have a Firebrand nearby.

Not to mention, running these builds against a Scourge will make it difficult to remain on point if you aren't able to predict and avoid the instant cast condi bombs that nuke the entire side node every 5 seconds. We don't have infinite condi clear.

In fact, Scourges are able to rotate to a point that a Druid is 1v1ing on, in order to force the Druid off the point into a decap or full cap. That's actually what they are used for in non-competitive games.

The only meme build that counters Scourges is a full glass longbow build using Soulbeast to burst the Scourge down in a teamfight before he can react. That, however, isn't viable either... both in competitive play, and if there is a Firebrand nearby throwing out massive healing and projectile denial.

A good scourge will throw your Ancient Seeds right back onto you btw.

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Malafaia.8903

Malafaia.8903

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:Jesus, now i understand why devs don't read the forums.You need another topic for crying? Isn't the 984867574 others enough?L2P dude, L2P...

Behold, the ___est user in this forum!

Yeah yeah, "if you don't agree with me, you're wrong".Typical MMO loser.

The counters are not viable in high tier, and no condi removal or deprivation of boons can keep up with their condi application. What argument have you presented?

As a main Druid i'll have to disagree HARD on this.

One of the few classes that can attempt to keep up with scourge's condi application says they're fine. And before you say it, long bow power druid isn't viable.

Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?

? It's obvious english isn't your first language so I'll stop now. Nice argument btw.

Lol, classic.

More like this statement:

"Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?"

Is completely incoherent. The druid build that works in high tiers is not the one that 'counters' scourge. I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying though.

Your great knowledge about the english language doesn't seems to pair with your knowledge about builds.Let me enlighten you a bit on the subject i know better:

Or you can just switch Sw/W for LB here:

I'm even using Ancient Seeds to laugh harder.

Shoutbow does not work against Scourges, nor is it a viable build to efficiently take them out of a fight. It also wouldn't hold up well in the current meta.

Bunker Druid will not be able to kill a Scourge under normal circumstances either. Permanent weakness on our already low damage and our pet, basically negates anything we throw at them. Whatever little damage we deal will be healed through easily, even if the Scourge does not have a Firebrand nearby.

Not to mention, running these builds against a Scourge will make it difficult to remain on point if you aren't able to predict and avoid the instant cast condi bombs that nuke the entire side node every 5 seconds. We don't have infinite condi clear.

In fact, Scourges are able to rotate to a point that a Druid is 1v1ing on, in order to force the Druid off the point into a decap or full cap. That's actually what they are used for in non-competitive games.

The only meme build that counters Scourges is a full glass longbow build using Soulbeast to burst the Scourge down in a teamfight before he can react. That, however, isn't viable either... both in competitive play, and if there is a Firebrand nearby throwing out massive healing and projectile denial.

A good scourge will throw your Ancient Seeds right back onto you btw.

"Shoutbow does not work against Scourges, nor is it a viable build to efficiently take them out of a fight. It also wouldn't hold up well in the current meta."

  • Can you elaborate on how it "does not work"? And also why it wouldn't "hold up well" in current meta?

"Bunker Druid will not be able to kill a Scourge under normal circumstances either. Permanent weakness on our already low damage and our pet, basically negates anything we throw at them. Whatever little damage we deal will be healed through easily, even if the Scourge does not have a Firebrand nearby."

  • What is your "normal circunstances"? I'm killing Scourges with that build in many circunstances, tbh. Permanent weakness? Are you swallowing everything they throw? Lure them shades, lure them F's, got caught? Cleanse. How is a Scourge healing himself "easily"?

"The only meme build that counters Scourges is a full glass longbow build using Soulbeast to burst the Scourge down in a teamfight before he can react. That, however, isn't viable either... both in competitive play, and if there is a Firebrand nearby throwing out massive healing and projectile denial."

  • So you're saying Soulbeast is better against Scourges than Druid? Please...

"A good scourge will throw your Ancient Seeds right back onto you btw."

  • If it's a teamfight is a big waste of transfer, if it's a 1v1 i can drop 3 more CC's just from pets. Ancient seeds is just the cherry on the cake, it's the panic inducing, CC after CC.
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shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

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@Malafaia.8903 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:Jesus, now i understand why devs don't read the forums.You need another topic for crying? Isn't the 984867574 others enough?L2P dude, L2P...

Behold, the ___est user in this forum!

Yeah yeah, "if you don't agree with me, you're wrong".Typical MMO loser.

The counters are not viable in high tier, and no condi removal or deprivation of boons can keep up with their condi application. What argument have you presented?

As a main Druid i'll have to disagree HARD on this.

One of the few classes that can attempt to keep up with scourge's condi application says they're fine. And before you say it, long bow power druid isn't viable.

Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?

? It's obvious english isn't your first language so I'll stop now. Nice argument btw.

Lol, classic.

More like this statement:

"Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?"

Is completely incoherent. The druid build that works in high tiers is not the one that 'counters' scourge. I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying though.

Your great knowledge about the english language doesn't seems to pair with your knowledge about builds.Let me enlighten you a bit on the subject i know better:

Or you can just switch Sw/W for LB here:

I'm even using Ancient Seeds to laugh harder.

Shoutbow does not work against Scourges, nor is it a viable build to efficiently take them out of a fight. It also wouldn't hold up well in the current meta.

Bunker Druid will not be able to kill a Scourge under normal circumstances either. Permanent weakness on our already low damage and our pet, basically negates anything we throw at them. Whatever little damage we deal will be healed through easily, even if the Scourge does not have a Firebrand nearby.

Not to mention, running these builds against a Scourge will make it difficult to remain on point if you aren't able to predict and avoid the instant cast condi bombs that nuke the entire side node every 5 seconds. We don't have infinite condi clear.

In fact, Scourges are able to rotate to a point that a Druid is 1v1ing on, in order to force the Druid off the point into a decap or full cap. That's actually what they are used for in non-competitive games.

The only meme build that counters Scourges is a full glass longbow build using Soulbeast to burst the Scourge down in a teamfight before he can react. That, however, isn't viable either... both in competitive play, and if there is a Firebrand nearby throwing out massive healing and projectile denial.

A good scourge will throw your Ancient Seeds right back onto you btw.

"Shoutbow does not work against Scourges, nor is it a viable build to efficiently take them out of a fight. It also wouldn't hold up well in the current meta."
  • Can you elaborate on how it "does not work"? And also why it wouldn't "hold up well" in current meta?

"Bunker Druid will not be able to kill a Scourge under normal circumstances either. Permanent weakness on our already low damage and our pet, basically negates anything we throw at them. Whatever little damage we deal will be healed through easily, even if the Scourge does not have a Firebrand nearby."
  • What is your "normal circunstances"? I'm killing Scourges with that build in many circunstances, tbh. Permanent weakness? Are you swallowing everything they throw? Lure them shades, lure them F's, got caught? Cleanse. How is a Scourge healing himself "easily"?

"The only meme build that counters Scourges is a full glass longbow build using Soulbeast to burst the Scourge down in a teamfight before he can react. That, however, isn't viable either... both in competitive play, and if there is a Firebrand nearby throwing out massive healing and projectile denial."
  • So you're saying Soulbeast is better against Scourges than Druid? Please...

"A good scourge will throw your Ancient Seeds right back onto you btw."
  • If it's a teamfight is a big waste of transfer, if it's a 1v1 i can drop 3 more CC's just from pets. Ancient seeds is just the cherry on the cake, it's the panic inducing, CC after CC.

I don't think you've fought good scourges before. If you get hit even a single time with one of their shade bombs, it gets significantly harder to avoid and survive additional ones throughout the course of the fight. Not to mention a Scourge can literally just line of sight your longbow every single time and you can't do anything about it. If you send your pet, it will do negligible damage and/or die. If you go to where the Scourge is, you will eat conditions.

Yes, I'd say Soulbeast is better against Scourges than Druid. For one, your pet never dies when you play Soulbeast well. You can also avoid almost everything on a Soulbeast while dealing a lot of damage in return. Soulbeast has incredible self sustain, on par with Druid in most cases. The only reason Soulbeast isn't taken is because people can't play it correctly, and it lacks the group support that Druid offers.

Druid is annoying to kill, but its damage output is fairly low. A good Soulbeast is also annoying to kill, but its damage is very high while offering similar sustain and much higher mobility.

Okay. In a teamfight, Ancient Seeds is 100% useless because the vines will get destroyed in .02 seconds from the AoE or cleansed by the Firebrand. The only reason Ancient Seeds was ever taken, was for 1v1ing on a side node where you could knock your opponent off the point and immobilize while you capped/decapped. Even back when shoutbow was a thing, meta druid still ran Lingering Light for the additional sustain for your teammates.

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Malafaia.8903

Malafaia.8903

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:Jesus, now i understand why devs don't read the forums.You need another topic for crying? Isn't the 984867574 others enough?L2P dude, L2P...

Behold, the ___est user in this forum!

Yeah yeah, "if you don't agree with me, you're wrong".Typical MMO loser.

The counters are not viable in high tier, and no condi removal or deprivation of boons can keep up with their condi application. What argument have you presented?

As a main Druid i'll have to disagree HARD on this.

One of the few classes that can attempt to keep up with scourge's condi application says they're fine. And before you say it, long bow power druid isn't viable.

Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?

? It's obvious english isn't your first language so I'll stop now. Nice argument btw.

Lol, classic.

More like this statement:

"Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?"

Is completely incoherent. The druid build that works in high tiers is not the one that 'counters' scourge. I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying though.

Your great knowledge about the english language doesn't seems to pair with your knowledge about builds.Let me enlighten you a bit on the subject i know better:

Or you can just switch Sw/W for LB here:

I'm even using Ancient Seeds to laugh harder.

Shoutbow does not work against Scourges, nor is it a viable build to efficiently take them out of a fight. It also wouldn't hold up well in the current meta.

Bunker Druid will not be able to kill a Scourge under normal circumstances either. Permanent weakness on our already low damage and our pet, basically negates anything we throw at them. Whatever little damage we deal will be healed through easily, even if the Scourge does not have a Firebrand nearby.

Not to mention, running these builds against a Scourge will make it difficult to remain on point if you aren't able to predict and avoid the instant cast condi bombs that nuke the entire side node every 5 seconds. We don't have infinite condi clear.

In fact, Scourges are able to rotate to a point that a Druid is 1v1ing on, in order to force the Druid off the point into a decap or full cap. That's actually what they are used for in non-competitive games.

The only meme build that counters Scourges is a full glass longbow build using Soulbeast to burst the Scourge down in a teamfight before he can react. That, however, isn't viable either... both in competitive play, and if there is a Firebrand nearby throwing out massive healing and projectile denial.

A good scourge will throw your Ancient Seeds right back onto you btw.

"Shoutbow does not work against Scourges, nor is it a viable build to efficiently take them out of a fight. It also wouldn't hold up well in the current meta."
  • Can you elaborate on how it "does not work"? And also why it wouldn't "hold up well" in current meta?

"Bunker Druid will not be able to kill a Scourge under normal circumstances either. Permanent weakness on our already low damage and our pet, basically negates anything we throw at them. Whatever little damage we deal will be healed through easily, even if the Scourge does not have a Firebrand nearby."
  • What is your "normal circunstances"? I'm killing Scourges with that build in many circunstances, tbh. Permanent weakness? Are you swallowing everything they throw? Lure them shades, lure them F's, got caught? Cleanse. How is a Scourge healing himself "easily"?

"The only meme build that counters Scourges is a full glass longbow build using Soulbeast to burst the Scourge down in a teamfight before he can react. That, however, isn't viable either... both in competitive play, and if there is a Firebrand nearby throwing out massive healing and projectile denial."
  • So you're saying Soulbeast is better against Scourges than Druid? Please...

"A good scourge will throw your Ancient Seeds right back onto you btw."
  • If it's a teamfight is a big waste of transfer, if it's a 1v1 i can drop 3 more CC's just from pets. Ancient seeds is just the cherry on the cake, it's the panic inducing, CC after CC.

I don't think you've fought good scourges before. If you get hit even a single time with one of their shade bombs, it gets significantly harder to avoid and survive additional ones throughout the course of the fight. Not to mention a Scourge can literally just line of sight your longbow
every single time
and you can't do anything about it. If you send your pet, it will do negligible damage and/or die. If you go to where the Scourge is, you will eat conditions.

Yes, I'd say Soulbeast is better against Scourges than Druid. For one, your pet never dies when you play Soulbeast well. You can also avoid almost everything on a Soulbeast while dealing a lot of damage in return. Soulbeast has incredible self sustain, on par with Druid in most cases. The only reason Soulbeast isn't taken is because people can't play it correctly, and it lacks the group support that Druid offers.

Druid is annoying to kill, but its damage output is fairly low. A good Soulbeast is
also
annoying to kill, but its damage is very high while offering similar sustain and much higher mobility.

Okay. In a
teamfight
, Ancient Seeds is 100% useless because the vines will get destroyed in .02 seconds from the AoE or cleansed by the Firebrand. The only reason Ancient Seeds was
ever
taken, was for 1v1ing on a side node where you could knock your opponent off the point and immobilize while you capped/decapped. Even back when shoutbow was a thing, meta druid still ran Lingering Light for the additional sustain for your teammates.

I'm sorry but you can cleanse every big bomb just by entering/ exiting Celestial Avatar, so how getting hit a single time by that bomb makes "significantly harder to avoid and survive additional ones"?

"a Scourge can literally just line of sight your longbow every single time"I don't think you're a bad player but now i think you're just being biased big time. Come on, how does a Scourge LoS your LB every single time on point? Or in this specific example he's not on point?

So, you can't cleanse and survive "tha bomb" as a Druid, but you can as a Soulbeast?

If you Kb the target off point, so off of the heavy AoEs, it's not 100% useless anymore. Plus exactly what you've said, it's the ultimate tool to contest points in x1 situations.

Look, if you are looking for flaws, we'll always have one, but saying that Bunker Druid with a LB can't deal with a Scourge is just a big falacy. I saw your posts about "leaving" and how "Scourges makes Soulbeast useless" not a long time ago. What have changed?

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jalmari.3906

jalmari.3906

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tldr because very strong bunker druid can somehow hold against scourge it's ok that majority of other classes and builds are not viable since you just cannot enter the death circles without excessive condi cleanse or fb support???

I'd be fine with scourge if it could not be so tanky or if it was tanky there should not be any dmg. Or at least those (lel?) insta casts.. That's how everything else works.

To me it doesn't seem okay that one class spec defines everything else in the game.

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shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

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@Malafaia.8903 said:

@Malafaia.8903 said:Jesus, now i understand why devs don't read the forums.You need another topic for crying? Isn't the 984867574 others enough?L2P dude, L2P...

Behold, the ___est user in this forum!

Yeah yeah, "if you don't agree with me, you're wrong".Typical MMO loser.

The counters are not viable in high tier, and no condi removal or deprivation of boons can keep up with their condi application. What argument have you presented?

As a main Druid i'll have to disagree HARD on this.

One of the few classes that can attempt to keep up with scourge's condi application says they're fine. And before you say it, long bow power druid isn't viable.

Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?

? It's obvious english isn't your first language so I'll stop now. Nice argument btw.

Lol, classic.

More like this statement:

"Hey, suddenly a class that can beat Scourges and are viable in high tiers?"

Is completely incoherent. The druid build that works in high tiers is not the one that 'counters' scourge. I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying though.

Your great knowledge about the english language doesn't seems to pair with your knowledge about builds.Let me enlighten you a bit on the subject i know better:

Or you can just switch Sw/W for LB here:

I'm even using Ancient Seeds to laugh harder.

Shoutbow does not work against Scourges, nor is it a viable build to efficiently take them out of a fight. It also wouldn't hold up well in the current meta.

Bunker Druid will not be able to kill a Scourge under normal circumstances either. Permanent weakness on our already low damage and our pet, basically negates anything we throw at them. Whatever little damage we deal will be healed through easily, even if the Scourge does not have a Firebrand nearby.

Not to mention, running these builds against a Scourge will make it difficult to remain on point if you aren't able to predict and avoid the instant cast condi bombs that nuke the entire side node every 5 seconds. We don't have infinite condi clear.

In fact, Scourges are able to rotate to a point that a Druid is 1v1ing on, in order to force the Druid off the point into a decap or full cap. That's actually what they are used for in non-competitive games.

The only meme build that counters Scourges is a full glass longbow build using Soulbeast to burst the Scourge down in a teamfight before he can react. That, however, isn't viable either... both in competitive play, and if there is a Firebrand nearby throwing out massive healing and projectile denial.

A good scourge will throw your Ancient Seeds right back onto you btw.

"Shoutbow does not work against Scourges, nor is it a viable build to efficiently take them out of a fight. It also wouldn't hold up well in the current meta."
  • Can you elaborate on how it "does not work"? And also why it wouldn't "hold up well" in current meta?

"Bunker Druid will not be able to kill a Scourge under normal circumstances either. Permanent weakness on our already low damage and our pet, basically negates anything we throw at them. Whatever little damage we deal will be healed through easily, even if the Scourge does not have a Firebrand nearby."
  • What is your "normal circunstances"? I'm killing Scourges with that build in many circunstances, tbh. Permanent weakness? Are you swallowing everything they throw? Lure them shades, lure them F's, got caught? Cleanse. How is a Scourge healing himself "easily"?

"The only meme build that counters Scourges is a full glass longbow build using Soulbeast to burst the Scourge down in a teamfight before he can react. That, however, isn't viable either... both in competitive play, and if there is a Firebrand nearby throwing out massive healing and projectile denial."
  • So you're saying Soulbeast is better against Scourges than Druid? Please...

"A good scourge will throw your Ancient Seeds right back onto you btw."
  • If it's a teamfight is a big waste of transfer, if it's a 1v1 i can drop 3 more CC's just from pets. Ancient seeds is just the cherry on the cake, it's the panic inducing, CC after CC.

I don't think you've fought good scourges before. If you get hit even a single time with one of their shade bombs, it gets significantly harder to avoid and survive additional ones throughout the course of the fight. Not to mention a Scourge can literally just line of sight your longbow
every single time
and you can't do anything about it. If you send your pet, it will do negligible damage and/or die. If you go to where the Scourge is, you will eat conditions.

Yes, I'd say Soulbeast is better against Scourges than Druid. For one, your pet never dies when you play Soulbeast well. You can also avoid almost everything on a Soulbeast while dealing a lot of damage in return. Soulbeast has incredible self sustain, on par with Druid in most cases. The only reason Soulbeast isn't taken is because people can't play it correctly, and it lacks the group support that Druid offers.

Druid is annoying to kill, but its damage output is fairly low. A good Soulbeast is
also
annoying to kill, but its damage is very high while offering similar sustain and much higher mobility.

Okay. In a
teamfight
, Ancient Seeds is 100% useless because the vines will get destroyed in .02 seconds from the AoE or cleansed by the Firebrand. The only reason Ancient Seeds was
ever
taken, was for 1v1ing on a side node where you could knock your opponent off the point and immobilize while you capped/decapped. Even back when shoutbow was a thing, meta druid still ran Lingering Light for the additional sustain for your teammates.

I'm sorry but you can cleanse every big bomb just by entering/ exiting Celestial Avatar, so how getting hit a single time by that bomb makes "significantly harder to avoid and survive additional ones"?

"a Scourge can literally just line of sight your longbow
every single time
"I don't think you're a bad player but now i think you're just being biased big time. Come on, how does a Scourge LoS your LB every single time on point? Or in this specific example he's not on point?

So, you can't cleanse and survive "tha bomb" as a Druid, but you can as a Soulbeast?

If you Kb the target off point, so off of the heavy AoEs, it's not 100% useless anymore. Plus exactly what you've said, it's the ultimate tool to contest points in x1 situations.

Look, if you are looking for flaws, we'll always have one, but saying that Bunker Druid with a LB can't deal with a Scourge is just a big falacy. I saw your posts about "leaving" and how "Scourges makes Soulbeast useless" not a long time ago. What have changed?

Celestial Avatar is up every 15 seconds. A Scourge can apply consistent, oppressive condition pressure constantly with conditions bombs every 6 or so seconds. If you get hit once, cripple makes it significantly harder to kite out and around of the shades. Weakness also reduces your endurance regeneration by 50%, reducing the amount of times you can dodge in a fight. Druids only have 2 complete condition clears: Celestial Avatar and Signet of Renewal. All other forms of condition removal we have access to removes 1 or 2 conditions at best. If you get hit by one condi bomb, you blow CA. It gets harder to avoid the next one, so then you have to pop SoR. Then you pop CA 15 seconds later and all of a sudden you're left with an approximately 30 second window where your condition removal is weak. Any further bombs will force you to retreat or die.

Have you ever tried standing on a point with a Scourge on it? You'd take so many conditions regardless of how many times you evaded that it becomes impossible to remain on the point. You can't even force the Scourge off with damage because of the Weakness on you. On the off chance you manage to get a Scourge low, all he has to do to counter your longbow is walk behind an obstacle to line of sight while leaving a shade on point. Now you're forced to send your pet in to die, or walk over to where he is, upon which he could condi bomb you again or walk to the other side of the obstacle and line of sight you some more. I've fought the best Scourges in NA. If they get low, they line of sight until all of their cooldowns (or the ones they need) come back. If I mess up, I'm dead. If you run out of cleanses, or you don't have enough cleanses to completely remove the movement impairing conditions, a Scourge can easily follow you around and you can't do anything about it.

Soulbeast has a much higher uptime of evasion compared to Druid. It's not about cleansing everything with a Soulbeast, it's about avoiding it and cleansing when you do get hit.

Good Firebrands will stick to their Scourge no matter where they go. If they get knocked off point, the Firebrand will be there to cleanse and take pressure off of the Scourge. That's what they're supposed to do. Even in a 1v1, a good Scourge will just bait the prediction of an instant cast condition transfer, or mark you after you dodge (if you are smart enough to), and all of a sudden you're rooted.

I never said a Bunker Druid with longbow can't deal with a Scourge. You said it counters Scourge. I said it doesn't.

I did leave. But if I ever decide to reinstall, I can still easily beat 99.9% of the players in PvP. I don't recall making a post about how scourges make soulbeast useless, so if you could link it or quote me on it, I'd love to read what I wrote. The last time I recall talking about how Soulbeast was in a bad spot was at PoF release. There are still several extremely frustrating issues with it, that still have NOT been fixed after months of asking, but I believe it is in a better spot than it was at the start. Either way, the issues that never seem to get fixed, no matter how much attention has been brought to them, is only one of the many reasons I finally uninstalled after having played since release.

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ZerotheFang.5890

ZerotheFang.5890

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scourge is problem Condi thief is the problem is all i hear maybe idk play class that counters is like p/p deadeye or a spellbreaker or idk stop using melee and use range. but then my issue is more people only complain cause they are losing matches not cause of scourge/necro its cause they do not stop running to mid or 1v5 the other team or capping cause yeah point of pvp is to run in center and try out kill or not do mechanic of the map. stop complaining about balance it will happen when it happens and you just be complain about how its not balanced enough. I swear its hambow warrior all over again with the complaints maybe instead of relying on someone else build make you own.

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Majirah.5089

Majirah.5089

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@Razor.6392 said:

@Egorum.9506 said:You guys know you can easily LoS shades right? or am i breaking the forums with this knowledge? That kitten bugs out all the kitten time, any small obstruction renders them completely unable to attack you, including being on higher ground

can you LoS the shade that is the necro himself?

Haven’t you learned yet? I mean seriously. You can easily kite, range, or dodge both the shade and the necro. I mean it’s not like the necro can move. They must be stationary. And it’s not like shades have 900 range nor do they have a very large radius. Especially when used with sand savant. And it’s not like they can replace the shade elsewhere. It must remain in the same spot at melee range. You should totally get this by now.

Scourge is by no means spammy. There are clear tells for the income damage. I mean don’t stand in the red circles...am I right? The shades must stay where they are and so must the necro. Just don’t stand in the red circles. Kill the immobile scourge that is standing on its shade from range and don’t worry about the rest of their team that is no where near the scourge ever.

Also, it’s not like you don’t have condi clear. If you were dumb enough to stand in the sand shade (don’t know how that’s possible...I mean BIG RED IMMOVABLE CIRCLE....come on), you should just dodge the condi bomb (if you can even call it a condi bomb). Just pop your cleanses (but make sure not to waste it on the weak condis). You know you have to use it wisely. Cant just look at your bar and say “I have multiple stacks cripple, torment, bleed, burning, weakness so I need to cleanse”. I mean that is just stupid. Use it when you REALLY need it. Not sure why you’d need it in the first place cause range and kiting, but you know not everyone is as skilled as me.

And if you waste your condi cleanse in the above scenario (I swear so many people waste condi cleanse on nothing), it’s not like you don’t have other mass condi clears. And RESISTANCE. I mean that one boon alone invalidates scourge. It’s not like scourge has any way of turning that boon off.

This is clearly a learn to play issue. I mean really you should be ashamed of yourself.

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