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Achievements impossible to complete after some time

Coelho Nat.4697

By Coelho Nat.4697
in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

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Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:You can make achievements based on things that do not require organisation or big group of players.

Yes, and the game has many, many such achievements. There are only a tiny number of achievements that depend on "swarms" or much organization at all.

But that's the point, personal achievements shouldn't have group requirements.Also the whole reward structure is poorly thought out, which allows these events to die out.

You’re assuming that it has to be one or the other. Achievements are just that: achievements. Some can be done solo and some require a group as this is an MMO after all.

I'm sorry you didn't understand, please try to re-read my posts, maybe you will then.There's a difference between an achievement that requires a group to be completed, and achievements that require the whole group completing them to complete them.And then there's also the lack of incentive for groups to even do those achievements, which, if you miss the bow wave of people rushing the content, you're screwed. Not great for the game's life-time if all there is to the game is that first week of content.

Best example - Serpent's Ire. Unless you want your achievements, there is no reason to play this event.

Exactly, well, pretty much all of PoF achievements, maybe except some bounties that you can now and then find people doing trains.

@Ayrilana.1396 Again, re-read everything until you understand that difference, because it's a big one.

Read them again and don’t see the difference. You’re complaining about group achievements throughout the thread. You’ve made distinctions between those that simply require completion (e.g completing serpent’s ire) and those that require a group to specifically work towards outside of completion (that shatterer one) but you’ve criticized both.

If you don’t like group achievements then don’t do them. This is the first time that I have seen over the years between the official forums and reddit of someone complaining about there being achievements that require a group. That’s a little different than what the OP was expressing concerns about.

There’s nothing about achievements that say they must be solo only. They’re simply various tasks in the game that Anet decided to reward players for accomplishing.

Well, i criticized both because there's problems with both.Personal achievements on group content (like serpent's Ire, all of tequtl's, etc) need incentives for people to do them, especially in PoF, where it's close to impossible to do it since people simply don't want to do that event ever again after completing the event, because it's not the easiest and the rewards are crap.

Group achievements on the other hand shouldn't even be a thing. Your personal achievements shouldn't be levelled on other people's actions.

I mean, and to simplify this for everyone that doesn't understand this: Imagine you're in Physical Education class.You're being graded on football (soccer for the hand-egg fans).Tequatl's achievements are like your teacher/coach saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A"Serpent's Ire is like him saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A. But the rest of your team gets a C, if they already played a match, and you have to get a team together"No Flying zone, and other group achievements is like him saying : "If everyone on the team scores a goal and you win, you get an A"

Please indicate where it states that the achievements in this game are personal ones meaning they should be done solo. Until you do that you’re just expressing your personal preference.

Would you be happier if Anet made another tab, duplicated all of the different categories and subcategories, and then moved all of the group achievements there?

Dude, i've already explained to you in the simplest terms i can think of. If you don't get what's the issue at hand, i can't help you there. But maybe, then just let people that do understand the issue keep on discussing without trying to derail it further please?

And since the achievements are your own, they're your
personal
achievements? They're not in a open-world leader-board or anything, they're on your
personal
Hero panel. If you want to discuss semantics, maybe start a new thread about the semantics of achievements? But this is a thread that is about the impossibility of completing achievements after some times due to the way they are created. Which is something that has a negative impact on new player's perception of the game. And has been demonstrated by me and others in this thread.

Just because they’re tied to your account doesn’t mean that they should be solo only. Otherwise, how would group achievements, that you were a part of, be tracked? Other games all do achievements that consist of both solo and group. Just look at ESO and I’m sure WoW is the same.

You’re the one that started this discussion of semantics by stating that “Personal achievements shouldn't require others to complete”. Those were your words in the third or fourth post of this thread.

Yes, there are achievements that become progressively more difficult to do as players move on to other things. Some may even be impossible for some players to do due to the aspect of finding the players to actually do it. There is nothing wrong about having achievements in a game for group content; especially a game where you play with others). If you don’t like those achievements then simply don’t do them. This is different from the OP who is complaining about their difficulties of doing a few rather than complaining about all group achievements entirely.

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ReaverKane.7598

ReaverKane.7598

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:You can make achievements based on things that do not require organisation or big group of players.

Yes, and the game has many, many such achievements. There are only a tiny number of achievements that depend on "swarms" or much organization at all.

But that's the point, personal achievements shouldn't have group requirements.Also the whole reward structure is poorly thought out, which allows these events to die out.

You’re assuming that it has to be one or the other. Achievements are just that: achievements. Some can be done solo and some require a group as this is an MMO after all.

I'm sorry you didn't understand, please try to re-read my posts, maybe you will then.There's a difference between an achievement that requires a group to be completed, and achievements that require the whole group completing them to complete them.And then there's also the lack of incentive for groups to even do those achievements, which, if you miss the bow wave of people rushing the content, you're screwed. Not great for the game's life-time if all there is to the game is that first week of content.

Best example - Serpent's Ire. Unless you want your achievements, there is no reason to play this event.

Exactly, well, pretty much all of PoF achievements, maybe except some bounties that you can now and then find people doing trains.

@Ayrilana.1396 Again, re-read everything until you understand that difference, because it's a big one.

Read them again and don’t see the difference. You’re complaining about group achievements throughout the thread. You’ve made distinctions between those that simply require completion (e.g completing serpent’s ire) and those that require a group to specifically work towards outside of completion (that shatterer one) but you’ve criticized both.

If you don’t like group achievements then don’t do them. This is the first time that I have seen over the years between the official forums and reddit of someone complaining about there being achievements that require a group. That’s a little different than what the OP was expressing concerns about.

There’s nothing about achievements that say they must be solo only. They’re simply various tasks in the game that Anet decided to reward players for accomplishing.

Well, i criticized both because there's problems with both.Personal achievements on group content (like serpent's Ire, all of tequtl's, etc) need incentives for people to do them, especially in PoF, where it's close to impossible to do it since people simply don't want to do that event ever again after completing the event, because it's not the easiest and the rewards are crap.

Group achievements on the other hand shouldn't even be a thing. Your personal achievements shouldn't be levelled on other people's actions.

I mean, and to simplify this for everyone that doesn't understand this: Imagine you're in Physical Education class.You're being graded on football (soccer for the hand-egg fans).Tequatl's achievements are like your teacher/coach saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A"Serpent's Ire is like him saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A. But the rest of your team gets a C, if they already played a match, and you have to get a team together"No Flying zone, and other group achievements is like him saying : "If everyone on the team scores a goal and you win, you get an A"

Please indicate where it states that the achievements in this game are personal ones meaning they should be done solo. Until you do that you’re just expressing your personal preference.

Would you be happier if Anet made another tab, duplicated all of the different categories and subcategories, and then moved all of the group achievements there?

Dude, i've already explained to you in the simplest terms i can think of. If you don't get what's the issue at hand, i can't help you there. But maybe, then just let people that do understand the issue keep on discussing without trying to derail it further please?

And since the achievements are your own, they're your
personal
achievements? They're not in a open-world leader-board or anything, they're on your
personal
Hero panel. If you want to discuss semantics, maybe start a new thread about the semantics of achievements? But this is a thread that is about the impossibility of completing achievements after some times due to the way they are created. Which is something that has a negative impact on new player's perception of the game. And has been demonstrated by me and others in this thread.

Just because they’re tied to your account doesn’t mean that they should be solo only. Otherwise, how would group achievements, that you were a part of, be tracked? Other games all do achievements that consist of both solo and group. Just look at ESO and I’m sure WoW is the same.

You’re the one that started this discussion of semantics by stating that “Personal achievements shouldn't require others to complete”. Those were your words in the third or fourth post of this thread.

Yes, there are achievements that become progressively more difficult to do as players move on to other things. Some may even be impossible for some players to do due to the aspect of finding the players to actually do it. There is nothing wrong about having achievements in a game for group content; especially a game where you play with others). If you don’t like those achievements then simply don’t do them. This is different from the OP who is complaining about their difficulties of doing a few rather than complaining about all group achievements entirely.

Boi...What can i say... Except, read the damn posts?

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Haishao.6851

Haishao.6851

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:

Achievements that require dozens or hundreds of other players to do specific actions in order for you to obtain it make no sense.

What makes no sense is why you are playing this game.

mas·sive·ly/ˈmasivlē/adverb1.on a vast scale.2.in a very large and heavy or solid form.

mul·ti·play·er/ˈməltiˌplāər,ˈməltiplāər/adjective1.denoting a video game designed for or involving several players.

If you're incapable of organizing or finding a group to do a certain achievements. You do not deserve that achievement. Simple as that.

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Sila.6748

Sila.6748

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@"ReaverKane.7598" said:Try doing "No Fly Zone" nowadays...

Did this just a few days ago actually. There was a dedicated squad up in LFG with a commander organizing it down to the minute, calling out when the next fly attempt was going to be and having everyone stack on the launch pads to throw bombs at Shatterer. Easy as pie. All you need is some organization and specific interest for people - which is a good thing for achievements if you ask me. It's meant to be something that people strive to get, not just farm and move on. That way it actually feels like you achieved something.

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Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:You can make achievements based on things that do not require organisation or big group of players.

Yes, and the game has many, many such achievements. There are only a tiny number of achievements that depend on "swarms" or much organization at all.

But that's the point, personal achievements shouldn't have group requirements.Also the whole reward structure is poorly thought out, which allows these events to die out.

You’re assuming that it has to be one or the other. Achievements are just that: achievements. Some can be done solo and some require a group as this is an MMO after all.

I'm sorry you didn't understand, please try to re-read my posts, maybe you will then.There's a difference between an achievement that requires a group to be completed, and achievements that require the whole group completing them to complete them.And then there's also the lack of incentive for groups to even do those achievements, which, if you miss the bow wave of people rushing the content, you're screwed. Not great for the game's life-time if all there is to the game is that first week of content.

Best example - Serpent's Ire. Unless you want your achievements, there is no reason to play this event.

Exactly, well, pretty much all of PoF achievements, maybe except some bounties that you can now and then find people doing trains.

@Ayrilana.1396 Again, re-read everything until you understand that difference, because it's a big one.

Read them again and don’t see the difference. You’re complaining about group achievements throughout the thread. You’ve made distinctions between those that simply require completion (e.g completing serpent’s ire) and those that require a group to specifically work towards outside of completion (that shatterer one) but you’ve criticized both.

If you don’t like group achievements then don’t do them. This is the first time that I have seen over the years between the official forums and reddit of someone complaining about there being achievements that require a group. That’s a little different than what the OP was expressing concerns about.

There’s nothing about achievements that say they must be solo only. They’re simply various tasks in the game that Anet decided to reward players for accomplishing.

Well, i criticized both because there's problems with both.Personal achievements on group content (like serpent's Ire, all of tequtl's, etc) need incentives for people to do them, especially in PoF, where it's close to impossible to do it since people simply don't want to do that event ever again after completing the event, because it's not the easiest and the rewards are crap.

Group achievements on the other hand shouldn't even be a thing. Your personal achievements shouldn't be levelled on other people's actions.

I mean, and to simplify this for everyone that doesn't understand this: Imagine you're in Physical Education class.You're being graded on football (soccer for the hand-egg fans).Tequatl's achievements are like your teacher/coach saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A"Serpent's Ire is like him saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A. But the rest of your team gets a C, if they already played a match, and you have to get a team together"No Flying zone, and other group achievements is like him saying : "If everyone on the team scores a goal and you win, you get an A"

Please indicate where it states that the achievements in this game are personal ones meaning they should be done solo. Until you do that you’re just expressing your personal preference.

Would you be happier if Anet made another tab, duplicated all of the different categories and subcategories, and then moved all of the group achievements there?

Dude, i've already explained to you in the simplest terms i can think of. If you don't get what's the issue at hand, i can't help you there. But maybe, then just let people that do understand the issue keep on discussing without trying to derail it further please?

And since the achievements are your own, they're your
personal
achievements? They're not in a open-world leader-board or anything, they're on your
personal
Hero panel. If you want to discuss semantics, maybe start a new thread about the semantics of achievements? But this is a thread that is about the impossibility of completing achievements after some times due to the way they are created. Which is something that has a negative impact on new player's perception of the game. And has been demonstrated by me and others in this thread.

Just because they’re tied to your account doesn’t mean that they should be solo only. Otherwise, how would group achievements, that you were a part of, be tracked? Other games all do achievements that consist of both solo and group. Just look at ESO and I’m sure WoW is the same.

You’re the one that started this discussion of semantics by stating that “Personal achievements shouldn't require others to complete”. Those were your words in the third or fourth post of this thread.

Yes, there are achievements that become progressively more difficult to do as players move on to other things. Some may even be impossible for some players to do due to the aspect of finding the players to actually do it. There is nothing wrong about having achievements in a game for group content; especially a game where you play with others). If you don’t like those achievements then simply don’t do them. This is different from the OP who is complaining about their difficulties of doing a few rather than complaining about all group achievements entirely.

Boi...What can i say... Except, read the kitten posts?

I have read all of yours at least twice with some more than that. They all complain about “personal achievements” requiring others to complete which is entirely based on your own personal preference. GW2 isn’t the only game that has achievements for both things that are done solo and those that require a group. There’s something for everyone so that they feel rewarded and to drive players to do certain things. This is outside of what the OP is complaining about as they’re concerned about specific ones.

Unfortunately for the OP, there are some that are not really rewarding outside of the initial achievement points so they become progressively more difficult to do later on. With the case of those tied to meta events, better rewards would probably be a better solution rather than nixing them because they’re don’t follow a personal belief that all achievements should be able to be done solo.

As others have said, the OP’s best course of action is to keep trying and to keep Anet aware of achievements that get progressively more difficult to do as time passes.

Edit: I’m sure Anet could add a section titled “Group Achievements” which the player earns by doing group content with other players. This would split them away from “personal achievements”. Making such a change would have zero impact on anything though.

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Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

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@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:I'd like to note that MMO does not mean forced grouping. The fact that ANet advertised and vocalized this game as casual and 'play at your own pace' nullifies that talking-point defense completely.

But it doesn’t mean that all content must be able to be done solo either. I brought up the MMO bit to remind them that this isn’t a single player game and there will be things, including achievements, that will require others to complete and there’s nothing wrong with that.

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artemis.6781

artemis.6781

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@Haishao.6851 said:

Achievements that require dozens or hundreds of other players to do specific actions in order for you to obtain it make no sense.

What makes no sense is why you are playing this game.

mas·sive·ly
/ˈmasivlē/adverb1.on a vast scale.2.in a very large and heavy or solid form.

mul·ti·play·er
/ˈməltiˌplāər,ˈməltiplāər/adjective1.denoting a video game designed for or
involving several players
.

If you're incapable of organizing or finding a group to do a certain achievements. You do not deserve that achievement. Simple as that.

Actually it means a massive amount of players online simultaneously. It doesn't mean we have to cooperate. Look at other MMOs who have competition for resources. So yes, I think achievements are something we should control ourselves with solo ability.

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Eloc Freidon.5692

Eloc Freidon.5692

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I'll never be able to complete Realm-Portal Spiker and to that effect Shadow of a Shadow since you need to succeed in 100 finishers on the portal in the few seconds you have during an ongoing meta that hardly no one wants to do. And thus will always be stuck on my "Nearly Completed" list which has become useless because of it.

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Khisanth.2948

Khisanth.2948

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@Game of Bones.8975 said:Nevermore has become Nevermind for me.I've only seen Vinetooth Prime a couple times since beginning to craft the staff. Once I came in on the tail end of the timer and couldn't help much. The other time we didn't have enough CC to take him down. I've pretty much given up.

The best way to do VP is with a small group that knows what to bring. Also why the hell does everyone insist on keeping it as far away from the very useful Adrenal Mushrooms as possible? That is just shooting themselves in the foot.

@Sila.6748 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:Try doing "No Fly Zone" nowadays...

Did this just a few days ago actually. There was a dedicated squad up in LFG with a commander organizing it down to the minute, calling out when the next fly attempt was going to be and having everyone stack on the launch pads to throw bombs at Shatterer. Easy as pie. All you need is some organization and specific interest for people - which is a good thing for achievements if you ask me. It's meant to be something that people strive to get, not just farm and move on. That way it actually feels like you achieved something.

Not really. Neither success nor failure of something like that can be attributed to anyone. Did your presence truly make a difference? How do you know?

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FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

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@Khisanth.2948 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:Try doing "No Fly Zone" nowadays...

Did this just a few days ago actually. There was a dedicated squad up in LFG with a commander organizing it down to the minute, calling out when the next fly attempt was going to be and having everyone stack on the launch pads to throw bombs at Shatterer. Easy as pie. All you need is some organization and specific interest for people - which is a good thing for achievements if you ask me. It's meant to be something that people strive to get, not just farm and move on. That way it actually feels like you achieved something.

Not really. Neither success nor failure of something like that can be attributed to anyone. Did your presence truly make a difference? How do you know?

Group achievements are attributed to the group as a whole. Single contributions to the groups goal always have an effect, you always make a difference. Depending on the groups size and whether youre helping out or just getting carried determine how much of a difference you make.

And yeah, in alot of zergs it's a not very noticeable difference.

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ReaverKane.7598

ReaverKane.7598

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@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:Try doing "No Fly Zone" nowadays...

Did this just a few days ago actually. There was a dedicated squad up in LFG with a commander organizing it down to the minute, calling out when the next fly attempt was going to be and having everyone stack on the launch pads to throw bombs at Shatterer. Easy as pie. All you need is some organization and specific interest for people - which is a good thing for achievements if you ask me. It's meant to be something that people strive to get, not just farm and move on. That way it actually feels like you achieved something.

Not really. Neither success nor failure of something like that can be attributed to anyone. Did your presence truly make a difference? How do you know?

Group achievements are attributed to the group as a whole. Single contributions to the groups goal always have an effect, you always make a difference. Depending on the groups size and whether youre helping out or just getting carried determine how much of a difference you make.

And yeah, in alot of zergs it's a not very noticeable difference.

Actually, i'm going to bet that even in that instance there were more people afk, or spamming autos on the boss's right paw than people using gliders to cc him into not lifting off. And yet all those had equal contribution.That's the problem with these achievements. Even with coordinated groups and commanders detailing it to the second, if enough people don't abide, you'll still fail. I've seen it happen numerous times.I mean even to this day, 4 years after tequatl was revamped, you still can find yourself with full turrets and 18 scales on the boss.

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Haishao.6851

Haishao.6851

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@artemis.6781 said:

Achievements that require dozens or hundreds of other players to do specific actions in order for you to obtain it make no sense.

What makes no sense is why you are playing this game.

mas·sive·ly
/ˈmasivlē/adverb1.on a vast scale.2.in a very large and heavy or solid form.

mul·ti·play·er
/ˈməltiˌplāər,ˈməltiplāər/adjective1.denoting a video game designed for or
involving several players
.

If you're incapable of organizing or finding a group to do a certain achievements. You do not deserve that achievement. Simple as that.

Actually it means a massive amount of players online simultaneously. It doesn't mean we have to cooperate. Look at other MMOs who have competition for resources. So yes, I think achievements are something we should control ourselves with solo ability.

I know what it means. I play MMO mostly solo too.But it's retarded to think that everything has to be done solo. There are achievements that are acquired in group and other that are acquired solo.

You can win a gold medal in skating by your own at the Olympics, but you cannot win a gold medal in hockey without a team that win.

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ReaverKane.7598

ReaverKane.7598

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@Haishao.6851 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:

Achievements that require dozens or hundreds of other players to do specific actions in order for you to obtain it make no sense.

What makes no sense is why you are playing this game.

mas·sive·ly
/ˈmasivlē/adverb1.on a vast scale.2.in a very large and heavy or solid form.

mul·ti·play·er
/ˈməltiˌplāər,ˈməltiplāər/adjective1.denoting a video game designed for or
involving several players
.

If you're incapable of organizing or finding a group to do a certain achievements. You do not deserve that achievement. Simple as that.

Actually it means a massive amount of players online simultaneously. It doesn't mean we have to cooperate. Look at other MMOs who have competition for resources. So yes, I think achievements are something we should control ourselves with solo ability.

I know what it means. I play MMO mostly solo too.But it's kitten to think that everything has to be done solo. There are achievements that are acquired in group and other that are acquired solo.

You can win a gold medal in skating by your own at the Olympics, but you cannot win a gold medal in hockey without a team that win.

Yes, but earning that gold medal in hockey doesn't require all or most players to score goals. Some achievements do require all or most players to do a specific action in the group, and that's the issue with that kind of achievements. Because you can't control the actions of the group, but you're required that the group complete those actions for your own personal achievement progress.Stealth Bombers is a classic example of this problem. It requires that the whole group manage to avoid getting revealed or trigger a trap. Not only that but the achievement description doesn't even specify that. For someone that never gets revealed at that encounter, it's extremely vexing not to have that achievement (btw, i do have it) because someone else triggered a trap once.It can be as frustrating as this: there was one guy trying to solo it once, we were hanging back, and he was making it, but by the 5th or 6th bomb one of the mining suits spawned on top of the people waiting, and failed the achievement for him, who didn't do anything wrong. That's the kind of achievement that i think are poorly constructed, because not only do they suffer from the same "bow wave" issue as most others, but can also be trolled by other players to negatively impact you.

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gert.7698

gert.7698

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:You can make achievements based on things that do not require organisation or big group of players.

Yes, and the game has many, many such achievements. There are only a tiny number of achievements that depend on "swarms" or much organization at all.

But that's the point, personal achievements shouldn't have group requirements.Also the whole reward structure is poorly thought out, which allows these events to die out.

You’re assuming that it has to be one or the other. Achievements are just that: achievements. Some can be done solo and some require a group as this is an MMO after all.

I'm sorry you didn't understand, please try to re-read my posts, maybe you will then.There's a difference between an achievement that requires a group to be completed, and achievements that require the whole group completing them to complete them.And then there's also the lack of incentive for groups to even do those achievements, which, if you miss the bow wave of people rushing the content, you're screwed. Not great for the game's life-time if all there is to the game is that first week of content.

Best example - Serpent's Ire. Unless you want your achievements, there is no reason to play this event.

Exactly, well, pretty much all of PoF achievements, maybe except some bounties that you can now and then find people doing trains.

@Ayrilana.1396 Again, re-read everything until you understand that difference, because it's a big one.

Read them again and don’t see the difference. You’re complaining about group achievements throughout the thread. You’ve made distinctions between those that simply require completion (e.g completing serpent’s ire) and those that require a group to specifically work towards outside of completion (that shatterer one) but you’ve criticized both.

If you don’t like group achievements then don’t do them. This is the first time that I have seen over the years between the official forums and reddit of someone complaining about there being achievements that require a group. That’s a little different than what the OP was expressing concerns about.

There’s nothing about achievements that say they must be solo only. They’re simply various tasks in the game that Anet decided to reward players for accomplishing.

Well, i criticized both because there's problems with both.Personal achievements on group content (like serpent's Ire, all of tequtl's, etc) need incentives for people to do them, especially in PoF, where it's close to impossible to do it since people simply don't want to do that event ever again after completing the event, because it's not the easiest and the rewards are crap.

Group achievements on the other hand shouldn't even be a thing. Your personal achievements shouldn't be levelled on other people's actions.

I mean, and to simplify this for everyone that doesn't understand this: Imagine you're in Physical Education class.You're being graded on football (soccer for the hand-egg fans).Tequatl's achievements are like your teacher/coach saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A"Serpent's Ire is like him saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A. But the rest of your team gets a C, if they already played a match, and you have to get a team together"No Flying zone, and other group achievements is like him saying : "If everyone on the team scores a goal and you win, you get an A"

Please indicate where it states that the achievements in this game are personal ones meaning they should be done solo. Until you do that you’re just expressing your personal preference.

Would you be happier if Anet made another tab, duplicated all of the different categories and subcategories, and then moved all of the group achievements there?

Dude, i've already explained to you in the simplest terms i can think of. If you don't get what's the issue at hand, i can't help you there. But maybe, then just let people that do understand the issue keep on discussing without trying to derail it further please?

And since the achievements are your own, they're your
personal
achievements? They're not in a open-world leader-board or anything, they're on your
personal
Hero panel. If you want to discuss semantics, maybe start a new thread about the semantics of achievements? But this is a thread that is about the impossibility of completing achievements after some times due to the way they are created. Which is something that has a negative impact on new player's perception of the game. And has been demonstrated by me and others in this thread.

I don’t agree that (all) achievments are personal. Sometimes you neef other players to complete a achievment, like raid achievments or fractal achievments..

But i agree that some achievments are impossible or to hard to complete because you need other people and the content is abandoned

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ReaverKane.7598

ReaverKane.7598

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Posted

@gert.7698 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:You can make achievements based on things that do not require organisation or big group of players.

Yes, and the game has many, many such achievements. There are only a tiny number of achievements that depend on "swarms" or much organization at all.

But that's the point, personal achievements shouldn't have group requirements.Also the whole reward structure is poorly thought out, which allows these events to die out.

You’re assuming that it has to be one or the other. Achievements are just that: achievements. Some can be done solo and some require a group as this is an MMO after all.

I'm sorry you didn't understand, please try to re-read my posts, maybe you will then.There's a difference between an achievement that requires a group to be completed, and achievements that require the whole group completing them to complete them.And then there's also the lack of incentive for groups to even do those achievements, which, if you miss the bow wave of people rushing the content, you're screwed. Not great for the game's life-time if all there is to the game is that first week of content.

Best example - Serpent's Ire. Unless you want your achievements, there is no reason to play this event.

Exactly, well, pretty much all of PoF achievements, maybe except some bounties that you can now and then find people doing trains.

@Ayrilana.1396 Again, re-read everything until you understand that difference, because it's a big one.

Read them again and don’t see the difference. You’re complaining about group achievements throughout the thread. You’ve made distinctions between those that simply require completion (e.g completing serpent’s ire) and those that require a group to specifically work towards outside of completion (that shatterer one) but you’ve criticized both.

If you don’t like group achievements then don’t do them. This is the first time that I have seen over the years between the official forums and reddit of someone complaining about there being achievements that require a group. That’s a little different than what the OP was expressing concerns about.

There’s nothing about achievements that say they must be solo only. They’re simply various tasks in the game that Anet decided to reward players for accomplishing.

Well, i criticized both because there's problems with both.Personal achievements on group content (like serpent's Ire, all of tequtl's, etc) need incentives for people to do them, especially in PoF, where it's close to impossible to do it since people simply don't want to do that event ever again after completing the event, because it's not the easiest and the rewards are crap.

Group achievements on the other hand shouldn't even be a thing. Your personal achievements shouldn't be levelled on other people's actions.

I mean, and to simplify this for everyone that doesn't understand this: Imagine you're in Physical Education class.You're being graded on football (soccer for the hand-egg fans).Tequatl's achievements are like your teacher/coach saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A"Serpent's Ire is like him saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A. But the rest of your team gets a C, if they already played a match, and you have to get a team together"No Flying zone, and other group achievements is like him saying : "If everyone on the team scores a goal and you win, you get an A"

Please indicate where it states that the achievements in this game are personal ones meaning they should be done solo. Until you do that you’re just expressing your personal preference.

Would you be happier if Anet made another tab, duplicated all of the different categories and subcategories, and then moved all of the group achievements there?

Dude, i've already explained to you in the simplest terms i can think of. If you don't get what's the issue at hand, i can't help you there. But maybe, then just let people that do understand the issue keep on discussing without trying to derail it further please?

And since the achievements are your own, they're your
personal
achievements? They're not in a open-world leader-board or anything, they're on your
personal
Hero panel. If you want to discuss semantics, maybe start a new thread about the semantics of achievements? But this is a thread that is about the impossibility of completing achievements after some times due to the way they are created. Which is something that has a negative impact on new player's perception of the game. And has been demonstrated by me and others in this thread.

I don’t agree that (all) achievments are personal. Sometimes you neef other players to complete a achievment, like raid achievments or fractal achievments..

But i agree that some achievments are impossible or to hard to complete because you need other people and the content is abandoned

Dude... Seriously, READ!!!I never said it was bad to have achievements on group content, what is stupid and poorly designed is achievements where the whole group has to complete the achievement with you or you won't! As in everyone, or most people, in a group are required to fulfil the conditions of the achievement for your benefit.

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gert.7698

gert.7698

Posted
Posted

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:You can make achievements based on things that do not require organisation or big group of players.

Yes, and the game has many, many such achievements. There are only a tiny number of achievements that depend on "swarms" or much organization at all.

But that's the point, personal achievements shouldn't have group requirements.Also the whole reward structure is poorly thought out, which allows these events to die out.

You’re assuming that it has to be one or the other. Achievements are just that: achievements. Some can be done solo and some require a group as this is an MMO after all.

I'm sorry you didn't understand, please try to re-read my posts, maybe you will then.There's a difference between an achievement that requires a group to be completed, and achievements that require the whole group completing them to complete them.And then there's also the lack of incentive for groups to even do those achievements, which, if you miss the bow wave of people rushing the content, you're screwed. Not great for the game's life-time if all there is to the game is that first week of content.

Best example - Serpent's Ire. Unless you want your achievements, there is no reason to play this event.

Exactly, well, pretty much all of PoF achievements, maybe except some bounties that you can now and then find people doing trains.

@Ayrilana.1396 Again, re-read everything until you understand that difference, because it's a big one.

Read them again and don’t see the difference. You’re complaining about group achievements throughout the thread. You’ve made distinctions between those that simply require completion (e.g completing serpent’s ire) and those that require a group to specifically work towards outside of completion (that shatterer one) but you’ve criticized both.

If you don’t like group achievements then don’t do them. This is the first time that I have seen over the years between the official forums and reddit of someone complaining about there being achievements that require a group. That’s a little different than what the OP was expressing concerns about.

There’s nothing about achievements that say they must be solo only. They’re simply various tasks in the game that Anet decided to reward players for accomplishing.

Well, i criticized both because there's problems with both.Personal achievements on group content (like serpent's Ire, all of tequtl's, etc) need incentives for people to do them, especially in PoF, where it's close to impossible to do it since people simply don't want to do that event ever again after completing the event, because it's not the easiest and the rewards are crap.

Group achievements on the other hand shouldn't even be a thing. Your personal achievements shouldn't be levelled on other people's actions.

I mean, and to simplify this for everyone that doesn't understand this: Imagine you're in Physical Education class.You're being graded on football (soccer for the hand-egg fans).Tequatl's achievements are like your teacher/coach saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A"Serpent's Ire is like him saying: "Score a goal on this match, and if your team wins you get an A. But the rest of your team gets a C, if they already played a match, and you have to get a team together"No Flying zone, and other group achievements is like him saying : "If everyone on the team scores a goal and you win, you get an A"

Please indicate where it states that the achievements in this game are personal ones meaning they should be done solo. Until you do that you’re just expressing your personal preference.

Would you be happier if Anet made another tab, duplicated all of the different categories and subcategories, and then moved all of the group achievements there?

Dude, i've already explained to you in the simplest terms i can think of. If you don't get what's the issue at hand, i can't help you there. But maybe, then just let people that do understand the issue keep on discussing without trying to derail it further please?

And since the achievements are your own, they're your
personal
achievements? They're not in a open-world leader-board or anything, they're on your
personal
Hero panel. If you want to discuss semantics, maybe start a new thread about the semantics of achievements? But this is a thread that is about the impossibility of completing achievements after some times due to the way they are created. Which is something that has a negative impact on new player's perception of the game. And has been demonstrated by me and others in this thread.

I don’t agree that (all) achievments are personal. Sometimes you neef other players to complete a achievment, like raid achievments or fractal achievments..

But i agree that some achievments are impossible or to hard to complete because you need other people and the content is abandoned

Dude... Seriously,
READ
!!!I never said it was bad to have achievements on group content, what is stupid and poorly designed is achievements where the whole group has to complete the achievement with you or you won't! As in
everyone, or most people, in a group are required to fulfil the conditions of the achievement for your benefit
.

then I misunderstood, my apologies

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Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

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Posted

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:Dude... Seriously, READ!!!I never said it was bad to have achievements on group content, what is stupid and poorly designed is achievements where the whole group has to complete the achievement with you or you won't! As in everyone, or most people, in a group are required to fulfil the conditions of the achievement for your benefit.

Using ALLCAPS and exclamation points and bold face isn't going to convince anyone to agree, especially since you keep doubling down on the same off-topic point. It's not "bad design" to include achievements that require more than one person to fulfill certain conditions; it's just design. You might dislike it, but that doesn't make it "bad."

And what exactly is wrong with an MMO having small number of achievements tied to shared goals? That's precisely the situation with RL relay races: the only way for someone to medal in such competitions is if everyone on their team runs/swims/cycles amazingly well.

Regardless, the issue is entirely moot in terms of the OP's concern: the OP claimed that some achievements are impossible after introduction. And that simply isn't the case: all the achievement are doable. Some are even easier after the launch. And sure, some take a different sort of effort to succeed now. That's not the same as impossible and it's got nothing to do with whether "everyone or most people in a group are required to fulfill the conditions of the achievement for each person's benefit."(The worst case is the portal spike in the Desolation... and, well, that's been mostly hard-to-achieve from the start; it's not any worse now. The problem is it's not any better, either.)

Again, I'm sorry you find it frustrating that part of the way to succeed at some achievements is to help others succeed with you. Because I find that part rather fun sometimes.

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ReaverKane.7598

ReaverKane.7598

Posted
Posted

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:Dude... Seriously,
READ
!!!I never said it was bad to have achievements on group content, what is stupid and poorly designed is achievements where the whole group has to complete the achievement with you or you won't! As in
everyone, or most people, in a group are required to fulfil the conditions of the achievement for your benefit
.

Using ALLCAPS and exclamation points and bold face isn't going to convince anyone to agree, especially since you keep doubling down on the same off-topic point. It's not "bad design" to include achievements that require more than one person to fulfill certain conditions; it's just design. You might dislike it, but that doesn't make it "bad."

And what exactly is wrong with an MMO having small number of achievements tied to shared goals? That's precisely the situation with RL relay races: the only way for someone to medal in such competitions is if
everyone
on their team runs/swims/cycles amazingly well.

Regardless, the issue is entirely moot in terms of the OP's concern: the OP claimed that some achievements are impossible after introduction. And that simply isn't the case: all the achievement are doable. Some are even easier after the launch. And sure, some take a different sort of effort to succeed now. That's not the same as impossible and it's got nothing to do with whether "everyone or most people in a group are required to fulfill the conditions of the achievement for each person's benefit."(The worst case is the portal spike in the Desolation... and, well, that's been mostly hard-to-achieve from the start; it's not any worse now. The problem is it's not any better, either.)

Again, I'm sorry you find it frustrating that part of the way to succeed at some achievements is to help others succeed with you. Because I find that part rather fun sometimes.The same reason why they removed having to fail achievements for Precursor collections. It's bad design, and the game sin't designed to handle player antagonism. If you depend on others to achieve something then that means that a single person can prevent you from completing that achievement. It's anathema to one of this game's principal points.And i didn't ask him to agree with me, was asking him to read the damn posts, since he obviously didn't, or he wouldn't have grossly misinterpreted my statment...And what is off-topic about my statements? I'm actually agreeing with the OP...I'm not the one happily discussing semantincs.

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Shostie.6435

Shostie.6435

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Posted

@"Coelho Nat.4697" said:I like to complete achievements. However, sometimes I am too busy to do so right after new achiements are released.The problem is that some achievements became impossible to solo after 1 or 2 weeks of the release since nobody in the game do the group event. For instance, "nap time" in Desert Highlands. I have been looking for group to complete this one for weeks, but nobody is interested.It would be interesting for many players that Anet do not put achievements behind group events that will be "dead" after one or two weeks. The same can be said for collections or legendary weapons that need "dead" group events.

I've found that the best time to complete these sorts of achievements is when the Daily Event Completer is up for that particular zone. I'm not sure if the new PoF zones are part of the Daily Event Completer rotation, but if they aren't, they should be.

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