New player WvW -- what is wrong with people?

[KayCee.4653]

Like others have said that joining commander's squads mean you generally have to play to whatever composition they want and/or be on Discord or Teamspeak. I'll add that even if you play the composition they want, say with this current PoF screwed up meta of running too many Spellbreakers. You still likely won't be in an ideal party especially if the commander appoints some lieutenant that doesn't 1) know you and what you can do, 2) doesn't know much of the class and what type of group sustained fighting it can help with, and/or 3) just wants to be a jerk. Yes, that latter happens a lot in WvW unfortunately.

I'm not saying that you can't play and follow that commander around. You can, and do like someone said and put them either in your friends list (just right click and add as friend) or as I've done to some commanders (right click and block). Wouldn't recommend the latter unless you know they can be very vulgar when they get their zerg wiped and yet, you a member not in the squad, survives. lol

You don't need to roam solo, and as a new WvW player, I'd highly recommend against it especially if you are in T1 or T2 servers. Finding a group to roam with helps, but following the zerg and knowing your class be it (ranger or whatever) helps to know when you can push with the zerg and when not to push. Also, knowing about what the other classes can and can't do helps too, so that you can pick your own fights to participate in even if you roam solo or with a zerg.

TIP 1 : If you do run with a commander's team and don't join their squad or get on Discord or Teamspeak. I recommend that you keep up with the commander's tag especially when you are hurt. Running at the commander's tag (or better yet, staying right on it as close as possible), then will help you to steal a few heals and area-healing combos.

TIP 2 : Learn to support yourself. This means have stun breaks, condition clears, blocks, and maybe even stability available to yourself to help you survive longer. While this sounds counter intuitive when it comes to being in a squad where the members support each other. When you aren't, those are the things that you'll encounter that you need the most usually. Now, with Path of Fire update though, that may change, but just be expecting it.

Hope that helps, and try to enjoy this game mode. It can become highly addicting. Just remember, being defeated isn't the end of the world. Learn from it, modify your traits and skills, and try again. :-)

[KayCee.4653]

@diamondgirl.6315Like Diamond said, I’ll give you a few rules for when you’re following a squad, when you are a part of the squad, and for when you are solo’ing or with a small havok group. I’ll make these where anyone no matter class can follow.

First, a few definitions…

• Havok groups are small groups ranging in size from 2 to 15-ish players (yes, its very rare to have 15-ish in a havok, but considering that most T1 server zerg groups are around 40 to 50 easily in the squad, well…)

• Roaming can be done solo or with a havok group. Roaming means going around flipping objectives like camps and towers without having to bother the main zerg/commander’s squad to do them. There are almost always some roamers around in every borderland and in Eternal Battlegrounds.

• Eternal Battlegrounds and Alpine Borderlands are where most of the big fights will likely happen so be expecting it. You may notice an increase in lag (latency) when a zerg is around.

Now for the rules of joining and following a commander…

• Ensure that you find out if the commander is using Discord, Mumble, Teamspeak or some other voice chat client. Get it and set it up. Join them on it so that you can hear what commands they call out.

• If they want you to run a particular weapon, or particular traits. RUN THEM! Make a print screen (screen shot) of what you already have and go back to it when the commander tags down or you leave the commander’s squad. This means having all the weapons that you have access to with you when you are running with them.

• If the commander says or calls for people to put “veil down” then you know that they are asking for a Mesmer to use their Veil skill to stealth everyone that passes through it. Same applies to “Waters” meaning to put whatever water field healing areas down that you have. Same applies to “Domes” which only Spellbreakers can put down. Same applies to “Wells” which Necromancers and Chronomancers can put down. If you play guardian or rev, you need to know when to use your stability and resistance skills and when to purge, these things commanders generally call for.

• ALWAYS FOLLOW TAG! I can’t say this loud enough, but you will live a lot longer when running a comp build if you are right on top of the tag. This may mean you need to use a signet like Signet of Air for movement speed of 25% or use whatever method you can to get your speed fast enough to keep up with the commander tag. As the saying goes, “Falling behind can be deadly.” And most of those following a commander tag that get defeated (double downed) are likely not on tag.

• To be helpful to a tag when not in a fight, always do your best to ensure that you have supplies on your toons. If you know you are going to be on for Friday reset nights, before reset happens, go to one of the Keeps and get +10 supplies from there. This will ensure you provide a commander with more ability to create siege weapons when needed.

• My last rule here is to NOT SQUIRREL! Squirreling means that you pull away from the squad to go chasing after one or more enemy players. This is often a set up trap and you’ll end up alone or with only a few players against skilled PvP players that can easily beat you. So, don’t fall for it.

Okays, so when you are following a commander without being in that commander’s squad, what rules are there? Officially, there none. However, take these as tips to stay safe.

• As in an earlier post, know how to support yourself. Make sure you have your strongest and quickest to recharge heal on, make sure you have condition clears, make sure you have at least one stun break. And above all else, make sure you have your traits set up to give you at least an ability to sustain. Now, if you play a thief like character, you may want to ensure you have enough evasion and distance crossing shadow steps at your disposable to ensure you survive most encounters with enemy players.

• All the rules for being in the squad with a commander still apply.

• However, one extra rule applies. When following a commander without being in their squad, you need to look at the situation and analyze it according to your own ability level and if you think you can survive it. You’re not much help to that commander nor to anyone if you get downed easily and have enemy players rally off you. So, play cautiously. Think of it like this, just because you can down a player or two, doesn’t mean that you should at that time.

Now, we go into the roaming area. This is for solo and havok group.

• If you are running with a havok group or any group for that matter, support each other. If one is downed, then try to rez them if you can and it’s safe to do so. They could be very well what either costs you the fight or helps win the fight.

• Run whatever you want just as long as your sustain and survivability are high too. This can be counterproductive since the faster you can beat something the better too. So, weigh the odds and make your build accordingly.

• TIP : Consider joining a guild that likes to havok group, you’ll likely always have someone to join then.

There many other rules I could go over, but these are just the basic ones I see most doing and that I myself do. While, I prefer to roam either solo or with small groups. I do, do a lot of following a tag while not being in a squad with them and it can be just as rewarding as being in the squad with them. Just it takes time to learn to be self-sustaining and at the same time group supportive.

If anyone has any other rules and tips they want to provide to the OP, please do. It may help him/her and any other players that find this forum thread.

[zealex.9410]

This is why we cant have nice things. Also Op this wasnt really all that toxic.

[VanHalenRules.5243]

I'm not one that has many years of mmo/guild wars play under my belt, and only really started playing wvw as my main focus earlier this year... But I can only speak on my own thoughts and experiences:

1) I'd be the first to point out if someone was being a jack-kitten, because I want to see nothing but respect for each other in the world, and in the game...because it's a game, and we all should want to have fun together. But I think that person was being respectful in pointing out why he won't include you in the squad. I personally think it's just a game and people shouldn't give a rat's kitten about winning or losing (not saying TRY to lose, of course you try to win, but not by over-obsessing in making sure everything is done perfectly to the point where you exclude people and insult others that are less skilled or w/e), but if one particular commander wants to include specific people/builds/classes into their squad, they also have the right to do so. Could have been a guild/roaming group or something, idk.

2) As I figured before I even started really playing wvw, it would be wise to figure out what class/build would make me most effective and helpful with the play style that fits me best, so I looked on https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW and looked into what people were saying about different builds, and eventually came to a conclusion based on the classes I've already realized that I enjoyed (turned out to be guardian, because I like being supportive and defense-minded). Because I had no tutoring in the game and had no idea what to do when I went into wvw, I eventually started in edge of the mists and just followed the commander there, and it was fun so I did the same in wvw. Eventually I started getting invited to squads, or sometimes commanders tell map chat that it's open for all, so I'd join.

My advice based on having to figure stuff out on the fly without much tutoring since I was new to GW2: If you want to play wvw and you see one tag on a map, just follow it. They either add you or they don't, and if it's a small group that doesn't add you... then I'd suggest going to another map or something, or roaming if you like random pvp. Chances are you will likely find the exclusive roaming/guild groups in the borderlands, and the more inclusive groups in Eternal Battlegrounds. If you see multiple tags in EB, then maybe ask which one the main tag is I guess. Also as someone that never joined a wvw guild, I do think about how much more quickly I would have learned the ropes if I had joined one... So that is also something you might want to consider if you see any seemingly welcoming guild messages in map chat.

Just my 2 cents.

[Decado.9304]

After years of Guard and Rev I now generally only play Ranger in WvW, purely for the fun, its the class i enjoy most and thats what i choose to do. There are consequences to that however within a large (semi) organised group.

Squads are limited to 50 and if you're in a big group as Ranger or Thief then be prepared to get kicked (or just leave/pm the squad organiser to tell him to kick you at any time when its nearing full). Primarily this is because you don't bring much to the group in comparison to other zerg classes and also you have huge amount of solo survivability so you don't really need to be in the squad. I generally peel off a lot when coms ask for someone to scout/save a camp etc so I shouldn't really be taking a full squad spot when i may only be at the tag 60% of the time.

That being said, if you're with a com who's running 22/50 and kicking Rangers and Thiefs (and occasionally Engi's) for no reason other than they don't like/think the class is viable then I wouldn't rate that com very much. There are good reasons to kick certain classes but also terrible ones.

And follow KayCee.4653 advice above, its a very good basic guide for the new player

[necrot.1453]

ranger has a lot of things going against it, the players themselves, group utility, i cant stress this enough......many many many players are a problem . when your group pulls an enemy in and a ranger blasts him back out of range simply because a LB skill was off cooldown it tends to make people mad........ you get the point. yes that happens with a lot of classes , but its 1000 times more prevalent among rangers. there are so many other classes that offer so much more, its natural to not waste a spot on a ranger. now this is on groups running full, if its just a pug with 15, there is no earthly reason to deny a spot.

[Metavahn.7293]

GW2 takes that homogenization that other developers like blizzard and square enix embrace and throws it in the trashcan, some classes are just terrible at roles they are not designed for, rangers are amazing pve soloists, half the characters you come across in open world pve are rangers, but whenever group content is concerned they are the least useful, i dont complain that my guardian isent easy mode in open world pve

Dont bother listening to these lengthy "tutorials" they dont cover the class bias that this game has had since launch, play your solo class but dont expect to do anything but solo in a competitive environment , this game isent WoW

[Botinhas.2018]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Mitsuko.3162 said:So I very recently purchased the game, entered a WvW and politely asked to join a large squad which was roaming around in the Eternal BattlegroundsThis is what I was greeted with ..

https://imgur.com/a/QO1Uw

Is the game really this toxic as to not allow me to play a specific character and enjoy group battles?

Shameful.

hi,

you can play as you will. you bought the game. you will find others who share your sentiments. party with them, make your own team, and prove others wrong.

thats what i did with my team and we are flourishing.

=)

You are flourishing the floor with your team 23/7.

There's a reason commanders want a certain composition in squad, and why such classes don't provide anything for the group and are mostly solo harassing classes. If you even think that's toxic then you are in for a treat in the near future. That was probably the most polite commander i saw in the past 2y.

A guy tags up, forms his own squad and it's his choice who he takes in the squad and whatnot, if you not happy, buy a tag lead yourself and make a thief and ranger squad and then experience in first person why such classes fail in mass organized group play.

If you are a new player to WvW, then maybe as a new player getting into a new game mode try to familiarize yourself as to what classes can benefict the most in that team based game mode instead of comming here complaining bout being denied into a squad while knowing nothing about WvW

[Zeghart.9841]

It's nothing personal, they probably needed those spots in squad for other classes that badly need to be in sync with that the commander is doing. There's not really any other reason to decline someone. I know it might seem rude, but the simple fact that the Commander took some time to explain the problem to you is already kinda nice - a lot of Commanders would've ignored that whisper and focused on what was happening ingame.

Ranger is a fine class, but doesn't really provide anything crucial to the entire group so it doesn't get prioritized - but it's not like you wouldn't still be welcome to follow the tag around. No matter the situation or class or skill, one extra body is always useful. After all WvW is a game of numbers, at the heart of it.

Also, every commander is different and might run a different composition for different uses - some prioritize certain builds and classes and discourage others.It's not really exclusive to the Ranger.

Many WvW servers also have a teamspeak server or something similar, from which you can hear the commander orders without needing to be in the squad, which is very handy. Definitely ask for it in team chat and get it set up if you can.

Hope this experience doesn't discourage you from trying WvW again!Like most competitive modes it can seem kinda toxic, but the mode is great fun once you get some experience and make some friends.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Botinhas.2018 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Mitsuko.3162 said:So I very recently purchased the game, entered a WvW and politely asked to join a large squad which was roaming around in the Eternal BattlegroundsThis is what I was greeted with ..

https://imgur.com/a/QO1Uw

Is the game really this toxic as to not allow me to play a specific character and enjoy group battles?

Shameful.

hi,

you can play as you will. you bought the game. you will find others who share your sentiments. party with them, make your own team, and prove others wrong.

thats what i did with my team and we are flourishing.

=)

You are flourishing the floor with your team 23/7.

There's a reason commanders want a certain composition in squad, and why such classes don't provide anything for the group and are mostly solo harassing classes. If you even think that's toxic then you are in for a treat in the near future. That was probably the most polite commander i saw in the past 2y.

A guy tags up, forms his own squad and it's his choice who he takes in the squad and whatnot, if you not happy, buy a tag lead yourself and make a thief and ranger squad and then experience in first person why such classes fail in mass organized group play.

If you are a new player to WvW, then maybe as a new player getting into a new game mode try to familiarize yourself as to what classes can benefict the most in that team based game mode instead of comming here complaining bout being denied into a squad while knowing nothing about WvW

no.

[jaif.3518]

Saying "no" is not "toxic".

I'm a weird one that likes to play thief/ranger and follow the zerg...but I don't expect a spot. I get plenty of skirmishing around the margins of the zerg. I strongly believe there's a role for those who finish downs and help rez your own side. You can also intercept all of those players with zerg-builds making a bee-line to their zerg.

-Jeff

[Sovereign.1093]

@Op,

Find a guild, make friends, ask questions. Be receptive to your guild's suggestions. =) and take every thing here with a grain of salt.

hope we can hear from you and maybe your wvw experience is now better. =)

[Crius.5487]

Play what you want to do, just try to develop a build that will compliment your play style. If you're going to solo or small group roam your build is going to be different than running around with a map blob and trying to fight inside a lord's room.

[izari.8203]

Have to agree that while it can be discouraging to find out your favorite class isn't a particularly useful in a new game mode, the way this person replied wasn't toxic at all. I play WvW a lot and I have seen / received some hella toxic tomfoolery, as someone who plays regularly and isn't awful at it.

While I call people out on their behavior often, folks just like to be jerks in PvP modes. I don't know why and I don't agree with it, but if you're gonna play competitive game modes you are (sadly) going to have to accept this happens sometimes and is going to get worse than what you experience above. I don't want to discourage it, don't get me wrong - WvW is 80% of the time totally awesome with great people who are happy to answer questions and offer advice. I always have a blast.

But if you're more a sensitive type, and there's nothing wrong with that, just be aware of what you might see / hear.

When I first started wvw I joined a guild who opening recruited newbies and trained them in small roaming squads, which I had a blast with. This can be a good way to get started!

[Flipje.8172]

Meh. When squads are full, commanders often do tend to not accept rangers or thieves or just kick them out of their squad. It tends to annoy me a little, so I only run in squads with commanders I know. They usually do value what I do on my unwanted class (I play a daredevil) and they know how to use me in their advance. If I don't know the commander, I usually don't join. I also don't need a spot in the squad, it's more that the commanders I know want to have me in the squad to keep an eye on where I am, lol. And while this example wasn't particularly toxic, I've seen it get toxic when it comes to these unwanted classes many times on my server. To a point where people start ranting and telling people to go play another class entirely, lol. I wouldn't advise listening to that. You have to play what you want to play, because you're playing for your fun, not for theirs. The whole 'but WvW is teamplay' yada yada yada is very noble, but that doesn't mean you have to play a class you don't really enjoy just so you can be 'of value' to other people. Blobs are what they are, the other servers also have classes online that aren't considered valuable, it's not a disaster if there are people around that are playing thieves or rangers. So if you wanna play a ranger, go play a ranger! But to save yourself a lot of frustration, just don't count on a spot in a squad. I don't know much about rangers, but if you don't really nééd a spot in the squad (like I do on my thief - it's really not necessary, I gain nothing with it) there's no harm done for you anyway. :) On the other hand, if you are very new and haven't tried the other classes yet, you could definitely give them a try of course! Maybe you will enjoy another class even more and it will get you the spot in the squad. There's no harm in that either.

[Nuzt.7894]

Honestly that is likely one of the most non toxic conversations you could have gotten. He was actually being helpful, what he said isn't untrue, it's not a personal attack against you the player. Typically you wouldn't even get a chance to talk if it was a somewhat organized zerg they would have likely just kicked you without a word.

You can play whatever you like but if you choose to play one of the less desirable classes then you need to be prepared for the fact that you are going to be kicked from a squad or asked not to run a Ranger/Thief/Engi on a daily basis. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with you as the player and everything to do with Anets vision or implementation of those classes. There is literally hundreds of things they could do to make all classes up to par in all modes, they just don't and because of that, classes like the Ranger, which is a fun class, suffer because they lack group utility or have sub par group utility when compared to anther class. Basically the anything you can do I can do better syndrome.

This xpac would have been the perfect time to give all Medium classes some way to negate Condi's from group or anything along those lines, they would have became the most desirable classes over night.

[sephiroth.4217]

That was polite but I don't think people are giving you the answer you're looking for. Most appear to just agree with what the guy in the picture said without explaining it.

Basically every class is different with different abilities. Classes can excel at group work or work better alone. Thief and Ranger with it's current abilities are usually best suited to working alone or with a minimal amount of people. The other classes like Elementalists offer large group utilities and skills that benefit everyone.

Think of it as a 3 legged race, you and the other person need to work together in order to move forward. In this case, you and the group need to work together in order to move forward.

Keep in mind, there's nothing stopping you from following the group either, you don't have to be in the squad to follow and roaming will greatly increase your skills and give you the confidence to still play WvW when there is no tag up.

[jumdar.3782]

@Sagramor.7395 said:Troll post?

That was pretty cordial as far as wvw interactions go. But if you believe they defamed your character and you want to show them who's boss then roll an Engineer. They didn't say no Engineers ;) .

Engineer main since 2012.

Play what you like dude. Just make yourself useful and make an effort to learn the game mode (wvw).

This is the best lol and yeah, Engi master race :^)

But if you just try you can go anywhere in wvw :) Like he said above (Or she)

[Pretty Pixie.8603]

You asked to join an at least semi organised squad. WvW isn't any different than high level PvE in that regard: You'll need to be useful to be welcomed. WvW is actually better than raids in that regard since you can still roam and follow the tag. Expect to get a kick if you add nothing to a group in raids. Your needs are not greater than that of the group. so be a group player and adapt, or chose to play by yourself.

[Henry.5713]

@KeyOrion.9506 said:

In any case, you can do just fine on ranger outside of squads or joining up with other thieves and rangers. Use your range to your advantage, pick off stragglers, use the fact that you do not have to be in melee or have to copy what the core does and play the ranger you want to play. That's what I do on my own ranger. You get just as much loot and I am alawys having a blast fighting the enemy thieves and rangers trying to do the same to us.

Yah, he/she can still participate. He just can't be in the squad to do it. Because....he can't bring more boons to the group as a whole? So that would explain why he asked to be invited politely, how he was rejected and kicked. And the answer to why he was kicked was because of the profession he was currently on.

Hatred....annoyance....disregard....

His class was unacceptable, even if it was politely stated that his profession was considered useless overall to the group.

Yah, it could not have been stated any more polite than, "I'm deeply sorry, but your on a profession that is firmly believed to not have any innate value to our group at this time. Once your profession has something more useful to contribute, maybe then you can be proudly added to our endevours and join our party/havoc/zerg on some future date in question...by the way, Would you happen to have any Gray Poupon?"

Yes, it was very polite indeed.

It is indeed a polite way of telling them - No. It does not have to be something they want to hear only.

You are blaming a customer trying to hire a forwarding company to move heavy weights for politely pointing out that they were asking for a truck and will have to go with someone else since you are offering them a motorcycle which, even with it's own strengths, is not what they are looking for. The driver may be the nicest person in the world and even be the best motorcycle rider there is but he still will not be able to accomplish the task he was asked to do unless he swapped to a truck.

[apharma.3741]

This is what people class as toxic now?! I sincerely hope the OP hasn’t left their teenage years.

Play what you want but don’t expect everyone to simply lie down for you and be super inclusive because you’ve been playing for 5 minutes in a game that’s over 5 years old where there will be people who have helped and burnt out their helpfulness.

[Jonesy.9728]

Can we sticky the big page 2 informative post by @KayCee.4653 as a new WVWer advice post? How can we get that done? I have seen a lot of new roamers running around lately who I feel could use the advice boost.

[Sovereign.1093]

@diamondgirl.6315 said:Can we sticky the big page 2 informative post by @KayCee.4653 as a new WVWer advice post? How can we get that done? I have seen a lot of new roamers running around lately who I feel could use the advice boost.

maybe copy it and post it as guide, and stickied would be nice

[Votan.4859]

If you want to be added to groups more frequently, make a full zerk shortbow/shortbow renegade rev. Will always be the most meta of WvW, SPVP, and PVE.

Also, this kid wouldn't log onto TS. He's on a longbow ranger and had some lame and whining excuse about his inability to use voice comms. I'm honestly surprised that Titan was so polite to the kid. But this thread provided our raid with lots of lols, so thanks for lodging the formal complaint.

[ugrakarma.9416]

i get bored from being frontline guard for months(or even years) and a did a frontline heal druid, i run almost out of squads, just follow the tag. if u try zerk, or condi ranger, u will not be able to survive even being in a squad, will spend most of the time dead.... Look at metabattle and make a Frontline heal druid if u want run on frontline with zergs.