Fractal/open world Legendary armor

[STIHL.2489]

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Nonono.

Raids are never the same and whoever says that either doesn't play raids or is a single profession player.

Every time you enter Vale Guardian.. it will be the exact same Encounter, with nothing changing, that is what makes it scripted combat. Unlike Open World, a hydra won't pop out of the ground and attack you while you are talking to the NPC, nor will a random event trigger that spawns a mob of chak when you are mid fight with VG, it is a closed, self contained scripted encounter that once memorized, becomes bland and repetitive, with the only potential variable being the other members of the squad, and even then, you will never have to deal with some random person you don't know anything about running in mid fight and CCing the boss so they charge and kill half the squad in one hit. (yes.. I am having a real fun time learning TD right now)

[MarshallLaw.9260]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content but there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good? In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

[nia.4725]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:Nope.. You need to do Fractals to complete Legendary Weapons, as such weapons already require Instance based Content, which is what makes them

Legendary

, I personally think they should put back in requiring WvW map completion to get Legendary Anything.

A tiny bit of Fractals, not even high levels, just solo T1 and a bit of WvW to get one gift of Battle which you can get really fast, is all you need to craft a Legendary Weapon outside the Open World. There is also the dungeon tokens but you can get those faster from WVW/PVP semi-afking than from running actual dungeons. Is requiring a tiny bit of instanced content (the easiest part of it) and a tiny bit of WVW/PVP (again the easiest parts) what makes them

Legendary

?

If making a legendary weapon required at least playing T4 Fractals (not CMs), doing at least a reasonable fraction of what is required for either of the WvW or PvP backpacks (or both) then yes, they'd be "legendary" in terms of requiring enough of each type of content in order to craft. Now they are 99.9999% Open World PVE and an afterthought of anything else.

What a trite and typical move to downplay the Fractal and WvW requirement, which is quite substantial.

But like it or not, Legendary Weapons require various kinds of content, and pass though several modes of play, which makes them actually Legendary, unlike the raid armor.

Legendary weapons are "all mode" legendaries, they require more PvE than anything but they could be considered all mode. But there's no WvW legendary weapons.

But there's PvE legen armor, WvW legen armor, and PvP legen armor. I don't think they are comparable in this. PvE legen armor should require only PvE, because we already have a WvW legendary armor. And they do:

• Tangled Depths (Vale Guardian), Tangled Depths meta (Gorseval)
• Auric Basin (Gorseval), Auric Basin (Xera), Tarir (Vale Guardian), Tarir (Mathias)
• Rata Novus (Escort)
• Verdant Brink (Keep Construct)

This is just the 1st pre collection. 2nd one:

• 100 chrystalline ingots (Dragon Stand) to craft the thing you need to use
• Tarir (Vine Heart)
• Volcanic fractal (Burning Heart)
• Snowblind fractal (Frozen Heart)
• Aquatic ruins fractal (Sodden Heart)
• Verdant Brink meta (Windy Heart)
• Dragon's Stand (Ley-Infused Heart)
• Tangled Depths (Cultivated Heart)

Legendary ring Coalescence pre collection:

• Go to several PoF maps locations, use sit emote and stay there for a minute
• Then (and you need the griffon for this lmao, I had to ask a friend to do it and then place a portal for me because I don't have the griffon) you go to the very very edge of one of PoF maps and talk with a guy who gives you the ring

So yes, legen raid collections do require you a lot more than raids. They even require fractals.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Every Gamemode has its own route to a Legendary Armor, there are is no need for one Gamemode to get another path to Legendary Armor.

[STIHL.2489]

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this, Shatter well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

[STIHL.2489]

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:Nope.. You need to do Fractals to complete Legendary Weapons, as such weapons already require Instance based Content, which is what makes them

Legendary

, I personally think they should put back in requiring WvW map completion to get Legendary Anything.

A tiny bit of Fractals, not even high levels, just solo T1 and a bit of WvW to get one gift of Battle which you can get really fast, is all you need to craft a Legendary Weapon outside the Open World. There is also the dungeon tokens but you can get those faster from WVW/PVP semi-afking than from running actual dungeons. Is requiring a tiny bit of instanced content (the easiest part of it) and a tiny bit of WVW/PVP (again the easiest parts) what makes them

Legendary

?

If making a legendary weapon required at least playing T4 Fractals (not CMs), doing at least a reasonable fraction of what is required for either of the WvW or PvP backpacks (or both) then yes, they'd be "legendary" in terms of requiring enough of each type of content in order to craft. Now they are 99.9999% Open World PVE and an afterthought of anything else.

What a trite and typical move to downplay the Fractal and WvW requirement, which is quite substantial.

But like it or not, Legendary Weapons require various kinds of content, and pass though several modes of play, which makes them actually Legendary, unlike the raid armor.

Legendary weapons are "all mode" legendaries, they require more PvE than anything but they could be considered all mode. But there's no WvW legendary weapons.

But there's PvE legen armor, WvW legen armor, and PvP legen armor. I don't think they are comparable in this. PvE legen armor should require only PvE, because we already have a WvW legendary armor.

We agree, and that is why there is no point in providing Legendary Weapons to each mode, as they already get players involved in all modes of play.

[Tyson.5160]

@nia.4725 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Turin.6921 said:Why do you keep replying to ohoni and de-railing the thread. I am actually interested on this discussion. Please stick to it.

I think very few would disagree in Fractals getting a new armor set, I mean we already have entire sets of Fractal weapons so getting an armor shouldn't be out of the question. Now if it's legendary quality or not, is something different, it all depends on whether the different types of PVE content should be seen as separate entities, or all of them seen as part of the same PVE reward structure.If Raids/Fractals/Open World are split and seen as completely different entities, then before Open World gets any kind of Legendary Armor, the other two need to get all the other exclusive bits that can only be found in the Open World, like Legendary Weapons which are exclusive in Open World and the vast majority of Armor sets that cannot be acquired by playing either Fractals or Raids and as far as PVE is concerned are almost Open World exclusive with tiny splices of Fractals and WVW. That's the vast majority of the game's content.

None are really seen as separate entities. Even the envoy armor that is a raid reward involved a good deal of open world content. The fractal backpiece as well. A possible legendary fractal armor that would require both fractal and open world content would follow the same concept. Now on the matter of the existence an exclusively open world legendary armor; i do not see how it means that you consider the different PvE types separate and i do not see why this merits for other modes to have also legendaries that are gain exclusively by playing the specific content and nothing else (like an armor that you get just by playing raids). Weapons are exclusively open world PvE and there is not much issue with that i think. Unless i misunderstood what you meant.

The point for me is as stated before: Since legendary armor is seen as a prestige item how could it crafted to merit the prestige only with open world activities. A fractal armor would not have such an issue as it can be linked to the high skill fractals. I think an open world armor could work if linked to LS in a similar way that Aurora is.

If I could use LI and Magnetite Shards to buy any legendary weapon precursor I want I'd be really happy!

I would definitely like more sinks for my shards and Li but i would not like to be used for precursors. I like the incentive to do more open world for them.

Also if they made possible to buy precursors with magnetites or LI the pre market would crash. Raiders would save magnetites to buy precursors and then sell them on the TP, their prices would drop significantly. Plus every precursor costing the same amount of magnetites would also have a big impact on the market, since current precursors price ranger from 80 gold to 700 gold.

But something like bags of T6 for magnetites would be very, very nice.

But yeah, lots of people here are arguing that we need a different path to get Envoy or easy mode raids or an open world legen, as if raids aren't part of PvE, that's what they meant by separate entities. Raid collections, as you stated, already require some open world events and items. I don't like open world PvE but I just accepted it because I know raids are PvE : / Even the precursor ring for the legen one, Coalescence, require quite a few annoying events and map exploration in PoF.

Edit: so I think fractals legen armor should have some open world PvE while requiring a big amount of fractal playing, from maybe T1-T3 for the precursor and T4 for the legen itself.

If they ever do make that separation, then Raids should get a Legendary back as well.

[nia.4725]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

You're wrong again. You could say this

"it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion"

about I don't know, a DPS player.

But raids are more than that. Being a support player myself, I am often in charge of do-it-right-or-wipe mechanics. So my squad depends completely on my skills and abilities. When I handkite Deimos, if I die it's a wipe. When I tank Xera, if I die it's a wipe. When I go through the cave in Escort, if I die it's a wipe. When I play druid, when I die it's also a wipe (because my static only brings one druid to almost all raid encounters). I rely entirely on my abilities to get through the content.

No one can say that I do not deserve a legendary armor for that.

[nia.4725]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Turin.6921 said:Why do you keep replying to ohoni and de-railing the thread. I am actually interested on this discussion. Please stick to it.

I think very few would disagree in Fractals getting a new armor set, I mean we already have entire sets of Fractal weapons so getting an armor shouldn't be out of the question. Now if it's legendary quality or not, is something different, it all depends on whether the different types of PVE content should be seen as separate entities, or all of them seen as part of the same PVE reward structure.If Raids/Fractals/Open World are split and seen as completely different entities, then before Open World gets any kind of Legendary Armor, the other two need to get all the other exclusive bits that can only be found in the Open World, like Legendary Weapons which are exclusive in Open World and the vast majority of Armor sets that cannot be acquired by playing either Fractals or Raids and as far as PVE is concerned are almost Open World exclusive with tiny splices of Fractals and WVW. That's the vast majority of the game's content.

None are really seen as separate entities. Even the envoy armor that is a raid reward involved a good deal of open world content. The fractal backpiece as well. A possible legendary fractal armor that would require both fractal and open world content would follow the same concept. Now on the matter of the existence an exclusively open world legendary armor; i do not see how it means that you consider the different PvE types separate and i do not see why this merits for other modes to have also legendaries that are gain exclusively by playing the specific content and nothing else (like an armor that you get just by playing raids). Weapons are exclusively open world PvE and there is not much issue with that i think. Unless i misunderstood what you meant.

The point for me is as stated before: Since legendary armor is seen as a prestige item how could it crafted to merit the prestige only with open world activities. A fractal armor would not have such an issue as it can be linked to the high skill fractals. I think an open world armor could work if linked to LS in a similar way that Aurora is.

If I could use LI and Magnetite Shards to buy any legendary weapon precursor I want I'd be really happy!

I would definitely like more sinks for my shards and Li but i would not like to be used for precursors. I like the incentive to do more open world for them.

Also if they made possible to buy precursors with magnetites or LI the pre market would crash. Raiders would save magnetites to buy precursors and then sell them on the TP, their prices would drop significantly. Plus every precursor costing the same amount of magnetites would also have a big impact on the market, since current precursors price ranger from 80 gold to 700 gold.

But something like bags of T6 for magnetites would be very, very nice.

But yeah, lots of people here are arguing that we need a different path to get Envoy or easy mode raids or an open world legen, as if raids aren't part of PvE, that's what they meant by separate entities. Raid collections, as you stated, already require some open world events and items. I don't like open world PvE but I just accepted it because I know raids are PvE : / Even the precursor ring for the legen one, Coalescence, require quite a few annoying events and map exploration in PoF.

Edit: so I think fractals legen armor should have some open world PvE while requiring a big amount of fractal playing, from maybe T1-T3 for the precursor and T4 for the legen itself.

If they ever do make that separation, then Raids should get a Legendary back as well.

Nah. We already have some nice raid backpack skins (Xera, Sabetha, Deimos). No need to give us more.

[STIHL.2489]

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

You're wrong again. You could say this

"it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion"

about I don't know, a DPS player.

But raids are more than that. Being a support player myself, I am often in charge of do-it-right-or-wipe mechanics. So my squad depends completely on my skills and abilities. When I handkite Deimos, if I die it's a wipe. When I tank Xera, if I die it's a wipe. When I go through the cave in Escort, if I die it's a wipe. When I play druid, when I die it's also a wipe (because my static only brings one druid to almost all raid encounters). I rely entirely on my abilities to get through the content.

No one can say that I do not deserve a legendary armor for that.

All this tells me is that you were carrying people up a clock tower.. not that you or I are any more or less skilled at what we have chosen to do with our game time, or that either of us are more or less deserving of being equally rewarded with top tier armor.

[STIHL.2489]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Turin.6921 said:Why do you keep replying to ohoni and de-railing the thread. I am actually interested on this discussion. Please stick to it.

I think very few would disagree in Fractals getting a new armor set, I mean we already have entire sets of Fractal weapons so getting an armor shouldn't be out of the question. Now if it's legendary quality or not, is something different, it all depends on whether the different types of PVE content should be seen as separate entities, or all of them seen as part of the same PVE reward structure.If Raids/Fractals/Open World are split and seen as completely different entities, then before Open World gets any kind of Legendary Armor, the other two need to get all the other exclusive bits that can only be found in the Open World, like Legendary Weapons which are exclusive in Open World and the vast majority of Armor sets that cannot be acquired by playing either Fractals or Raids and as far as PVE is concerned are almost Open World exclusive with tiny splices of Fractals and WVW. That's the vast majority of the game's content.

None are really seen as separate entities. Even the envoy armor that is a raid reward involved a good deal of open world content. The fractal backpiece as well. A possible legendary fractal armor that would require both fractal and open world content would follow the same concept. Now on the matter of the existence an exclusively open world legendary armor; i do not see how it means that you consider the different PvE types separate and i do not see why this merits for other modes to have also legendaries that are gain exclusively by playing the specific content and nothing else (like an armor that you get just by playing raids). Weapons are exclusively open world PvE and there is not much issue with that i think. Unless i misunderstood what you meant.

The point for me is as stated before: Since legendary armor is seen as a prestige item how could it crafted to merit the prestige only with open world activities. A fractal armor would not have such an issue as it can be linked to the high skill fractals. I think an open world armor could work if linked to LS in a similar way that Aurora is.

If I could use LI and Magnetite Shards to buy any legendary weapon precursor I want I'd be really happy!

I would definitely like more sinks for my shards and Li but i would not like to be used for precursors. I like the incentive to do more open world for them.

Also if they made possible to buy precursors with magnetites or LI the pre market would crash. Raiders would save magnetites to buy precursors and then sell them on the TP, their prices would drop significantly. Plus every precursor costing the same amount of magnetites would also have a big impact on the market, since current precursors price ranger from 80 gold to 700 gold.

But something like bags of T6 for magnetites would be very, very nice.

But yeah, lots of people here are arguing that we need a different path to get Envoy or easy mode raids or an open world legen, as if raids aren't part of PvE, that's what they meant by separate entities. Raid collections, as you stated, already require some open world events and items. I don't like open world PvE but I just accepted it because I know raids are PvE : / Even the precursor ring for the legen one, Coalescence, require quite a few annoying events and map exploration in PoF.

Edit: so I think fractals legen armor should have some open world PvE while requiring a big amount of fractal playing, from maybe T1-T3 for the precursor and T4 for the legen itself.

If they ever do make that separation, then Raids should get a Legendary back as well.

If they make a separation (which I highly doubt they will), then both Raids and Open World should get a Legendary back Item, as neither of them have one.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

Maybe what you're not considering is that "ultimate" content is actually objective but susceptible to community opinion. Personally I don't care for jumping puzzles, I don't do them for the enjoyment of the puzzle, I do them if I'm after the specific reward (that is my idea of what I like).OW content rather often, especially in large groups, is good fun but the impact you have is reduced compared to 5/10man content. You could put in 100% effort and get perfect rotations putting out max DPS or you could half afk/half AA and still the results would be the same.I would argue that really what we are looking at is the validity of the reward compared to the effort required.Defeating NPC enemies is the core of any MMORPG, you really can't argue against that. Nobody has ever said "Oh you know that new MMORPG, it's epic, the ultimate content there is FARMING CROPS"

[Tyson.5160]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"STIHL.2489" said:Nope.. You need to do Fractals to complete Legendary Weapons, as such weapons already require Instance based Content, which is what makes them

Legendary

, I personally think they should put back in requiring WvW map completion to get Legendary Anything.

A tiny bit of Fractals, not even high levels, just solo T1 and a bit of WvW to get one gift of Battle which you can get really fast, is all you need to craft a Legendary Weapon outside the Open World. There is also the dungeon tokens but you can get those faster from WVW/PVP semi-afking than from running actual dungeons. Is requiring a tiny bit of instanced content (the easiest part of it) and a tiny bit of WVW/PVP (again the easiest parts) what makes them

Legendary

?

If making a legendary weapon required at least playing T4 Fractals (not CMs), doing at least a reasonable fraction of what is required for either of the WvW or PvP backpacks (or both) then yes, they'd be "legendary" in terms of requiring enough of each type of content in order to craft. Now they are 99.9999% Open World PVE and an afterthought of anything else.

If a Legendary Weapon was supposed to show how experienced someone is with every type of content in the game, it failed miserably, because in reality it's not showing anything.

I think when they originally designed the content way back near release you had to do a good amount of WvW. The gift of battle required badges that you got over time and gift exploration required all the WvW maps to be explored as well, which required you to play a significant amount of WvW, obviously they changed it.

[nia.4725]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

You're wrong again. You could say this

"it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion"

about I don't know, a DPS player.

But raids are more than that. Being a support player myself, I am often in charge of do-it-right-or-wipe mechanics. So my squad depends completely on my skills and abilities. When I handkite Deimos, if I die it's a wipe. When I tank Xera, if I die it's a wipe. When I go through the cave in Escort, if I die it's a wipe. When I play druid, when I die it's also a wipe (because my static only brings one druid to almost all raid encounters). I rely entirely on my abilities to get through the content.

No one can say that I do not deserve a legendary armor for that.

All this tells me is that you were carrying people up a clock tower.. not that you or I are any more or less skilled at what we have chosen to do with our game time, or that either of us are more or less deserving of being equally rewarded with top tier armor.

Yeah, but the clock tower is just ONE (1) event you do for 2 weeks once a year.

Raids are 17 different encounters with several different mechanics you have to complete for several weeks in order to get some of the materials you need to craft that legendary armor. Not comparable at all.

Now you could say that passing through the cave isn't a big deal (which sometimes is, but ok, it isn't that difficult). Not let's look at something else. Tanking Xera. Handkiting Deimos using a hammer to give your squad a DPS buff which is a very dangerous thing, and keeping your Ventari tablet close to them so they get extra alacrity). Tanking Deimos, too. And tanking him while keeping 100% boon uptime for your party.

[Feanor.2358]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

You're wrong again. You could say this

"it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion"

about I don't know, a DPS player.

But raids are more than that. Being a support player myself, I am often in charge of do-it-right-or-wipe mechanics. So my squad depends completely on my skills and abilities. When I handkite Deimos, if I die it's a wipe. When I tank Xera, if I die it's a wipe. When I go through the cave in Escort, if I die it's a wipe. When I play druid, when I die it's also a wipe (because my static only brings one druid to almost all raid encounters). I rely entirely on my abilities to get through the content.

No one can say that I do not deserve a legendary armor for that.

All this tells me is that you were carrying people up a clock tower.. not that you or I are any more or less skilled at what we have chosen to do with our game time, or that either of us are more or less deserving of being equally rewarded with top tier armor.

Of course. There's just that process of proving you deserve to being equally rewarded. In this particular case, it's called "raiding". Go ahead and earn your reward. The game gives everyone the same tools and the same possibilities. Want a specific reward? Then just do the same as everyone else who earned it. Simple and fair, right?

[Feanor.2358]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

You're wrong again. You could say this

"it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion"

about I don't know, a DPS player.

But raids are more than that. Being a support player myself, I am often in charge of do-it-right-or-wipe mechanics. So my squad depends completely on my skills and abilities. When I handkite Deimos, if I die it's a wipe. When I tank Xera, if I die it's a wipe. When I go through the cave in Escort, if I die it's a wipe. When I play druid, when I die it's also a wipe (because my static only brings one druid to almost all raid encounters). I rely entirely on my abilities to get through the content.

No one can say that I do not deserve a legendary armor for that.

All this tells me is that you were carrying people up a clock tower.. not that you or I are any more or less skilled at what we have chosen to do with our game time, or that either of us are more or less deserving of being equally rewarded with top tier armor.

Of course. There's just that process of proving you deserve to being equally rewarded. In this particular case, it's called "raiding". Go ahead and earn your reward. The game gives everyone the same tools and the same possibilities. Want a specific reward? Then just do the same as everyone else who earned it. Simple and fair, right?

[STIHL.2489]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

You're wrong again. You could say this

"it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion"

about I don't know, a DPS player.

But raids are more than that. Being a support player myself, I am often in charge of do-it-right-or-wipe mechanics. So my squad depends completely on my skills and abilities. When I handkite Deimos, if I die it's a wipe. When I tank Xera, if I die it's a wipe. When I go through the cave in Escort, if I die it's a wipe. When I play druid, when I die it's also a wipe (because my static only brings one druid to almost all raid encounters). I rely entirely on my abilities to get through the content.

No one can say that I do not deserve a legendary armor for that.

All this tells me is that you were carrying people up a clock tower.. not that you or I are any more or less skilled at what we have chosen to do with our game time, or that either of us are more or less deserving of being equally rewarded with top tier armor.

Of course. There's just that process of proving you deserve to being equally rewarded. In this particular case, it's called "raiding". Go ahead and earn your reward. The game gives everyone the same tools and the same possibilities. Want a specific reward? Then just do the same as everyone else who earned it. Simple and fair, right?

I find it hilarious that raiders expect everyone to do the content related to the reward, until it comes to them doing the content, then they want to be able to buy precursors with mag shards.. love the #doubestandards.

[nia.4725]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

You're wrong again. You could say this

"it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion"

about I don't know, a DPS player.

But raids are more than that. Being a support player myself, I am often in charge of do-it-right-or-wipe mechanics. So my squad depends completely on my skills and abilities. When I handkite Deimos, if I die it's a wipe. When I tank Xera, if I die it's a wipe. When I go through the cave in Escort, if I die it's a wipe. When I play druid, when I die it's also a wipe (because my static only brings one druid to almost all raid encounters). I rely entirely on my abilities to get through the content.

No one can say that I do not deserve a legendary armor for that.

All this tells me is that you were carrying people up a clock tower.. not that you or I are any more or less skilled at what we have chosen to do with our game time, or that either of us are more or less deserving of being equally rewarded with top tier armor.

Of course. There's just that process of proving you deserve to being equally rewarded. In this particular case, it's called "raiding". Go ahead and earn your reward. The game gives everyone the same tools and the same possibilities. Want a specific reward? Then just do the same as everyone else who earned it. Simple and fair, right?

I find it hilarious that raiders expect everyone to do the content related to the reward, until it comes to them doing the content, then they want to be able to buy precursors with mag shards.. love the #doubestandards.

Don't say false things please. That was just ONE person (maddoctor), some more people inclung me commented on the thing but didn't agree.

Stop that.

[nia.4725]

double post by mistake please delete

[SidewayS.3789]

Even if they (Anet) will not go on the Fractal Legendary Armor road...I hope they will create Fractal Armor (skin or ascended). And those 3 links with fan-art, are an idea how to create it. I mean we have Backpiece (leggy) and 2 sets of weps skins...So it misses Armor. And since Fractals are their main "5 man content" they should at least, create 1 set of Fractal Armor, legendary or ascended.

[Tyson.5160]

@"SidewayS.3789" said:Even if they (Anet) will not go on the Fractal Legendary Armor road...I hope they will create Fractal Armor (skin or ascended). And those 3 links with fan-art, are an idea how to create it. I mean we have Backpiece (leggy) and 2 sets of weps skins...So it misses Armor. And since Fractals are their main "5 man content" they should at least, create 1 set of Fractal Armor, legendary or ascended.

Agree 100% the fractals, the mechanics, agony, instabilities, they are so unique and really shouldn’t be lumped into Raids. Let Raids have their distinct uniqueness and let fractals have theirs. I think adding a set of Legendary Fractal Armor would support this uniqueness.

[Feanor.2358]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

You're wrong again. You could say this

"it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion"

about I don't know, a DPS player.

But raids are more than that. Being a support player myself, I am often in charge of do-it-right-or-wipe mechanics. So my squad depends completely on my skills and abilities. When I handkite Deimos, if I die it's a wipe. When I tank Xera, if I die it's a wipe. When I go through the cave in Escort, if I die it's a wipe. When I play druid, when I die it's also a wipe (because my static only brings one druid to almost all raid encounters). I rely entirely on my abilities to get through the content.

No one can say that I do not deserve a legendary armor for that.

All this tells me is that you were carrying people up a clock tower.. not that you or I are any more or less skilled at what we have chosen to do with our game time, or that either of us are more or less deserving of being equally rewarded with top tier armor.

Of course. There's just that process of proving you deserve to being equally rewarded. In this particular case, it's called "raiding". Go ahead and earn your reward. The game gives everyone the same tools and the same possibilities. Want a specific reward? Then just do the same as everyone else who earned it. Simple and fair, right?

I find it hilarious that raiders expect everyone to do the content related to the reward, until it comes to them doing the content, then they want to be able to buy precursors with mag shards.. love the #doubestandards.

Now, now. Did I say I want to buy precursors? You can't blame double standards on me because somebody else said something.

[Tyson.5160]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

You're wrong again. You could say this

"it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion"

about I don't know, a DPS player.

But raids are more than that. Being a support player myself, I am often in charge of do-it-right-or-wipe mechanics. So my squad depends completely on my skills and abilities. When I handkite Deimos, if I die it's a wipe. When I tank Xera, if I die it's a wipe. When I go through the cave in Escort, if I die it's a wipe. When I play druid, when I die it's also a wipe (because my static only brings one druid to almost all raid encounters). I rely entirely on my abilities to get through the content.

No one can say that I do not deserve a legendary armor for that.

All this tells me is that you were carrying people up a clock tower.. not that you or I are any more or less skilled at what we have chosen to do with our game time, or that either of us are more or less deserving of being equally rewarded with top tier armor.

Of course. There's just that process of proving you deserve to being equally rewarded. In this particular case, it's called "raiding". Go ahead and earn your reward. The game gives everyone the same tools and the same possibilities. Want a specific reward? Then just do the same as everyone else who earned it. Simple and fair, right?

I find it hilarious that raiders expect everyone to do the content related to the reward, until it comes to them doing the content, then they want to be able to buy precursors with mag shards.. love the #doubestandards.

Now, now. Did I say I want to buy precursors? You can't blame double standards on me because somebody else said something.

Gentlemen, are you hijacking my thread? Let’s stay at the task at hand. Let’s not have the same argument over four different threads. Time to be civil.

[STIHL.2489]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

You're wrong again. You could say this

"it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion"

about I don't know, a DPS player.

But raids are more than that. Being a support player myself, I am often in charge of do-it-right-or-wipe mechanics. So my squad depends completely on my skills and abilities. When I handkite Deimos, if I die it's a wipe. When I tank Xera, if I die it's a wipe. When I go through the cave in Escort, if I die it's a wipe. When I play druid, when I die it's also a wipe (because my static only brings one druid to almost all raid encounters). I rely entirely on my abilities to get through the content.

No one can say that I do not deserve a legendary armor for that.

All this tells me is that you were carrying people up a clock tower.. not that you or I are any more or less skilled at what we have chosen to do with our game time, or that either of us are more or less deserving of being equally rewarded with top tier armor.

Of course. There's just that process of proving you deserve to being equally rewarded. In this particular case, it's called "raiding". Go ahead and earn your reward. The game gives everyone the same tools and the same possibilities. Want a specific reward? Then just do the same as everyone else who earned it. Simple and fair, right?

I find it hilarious that raiders expect everyone to do the content related to the reward, until it comes to them doing the content, then they want to be able to buy precursors with mag shards.. love the #doubestandards.

Now, now. Did I say I want to buy precursors? You can't blame double standards on me because somebody else said something.

I am only treating you like you treat your opponents, with how you attribute what @Ohoni.6057 says to me, and in some cases, even make up stuff about what I said.

In this case, There is a clear post by a raid proponent that saw no problems using cross content currency to get whatever they wanted, with zero stipulations about not doing the content for the reward. Oh which I might add you raised no objections.

The one objection to the idea was about it devaluing the TP price of Precursors, nothing about doing the content for the reward. So again loving the #doublestandards.

[STIHL.2489]

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to have to agree that Open World in GW2, is some of the best designed content in the game, and for the most part, some of the best Open Map content in any game I have played. It's stunning to look at, it's dynamic to move though, with a lot of activity around it. So that would make it the ultimate content, as really there is nothing that even comes close to the vastness that Open World offers.

And It is the best designed and most dynamic content in the game, passing though all skill levels, no other content even comes close. As @Ohoni.6057 said, don't confuse difficult with better, and OW is the best laid out, and artistically beautiful content in the game. It offers the most in diversity of challenge from simple encounters that can be quickly soloed to very complex world bosses that require dozens of people and cooperation to complete, It also offers Jumping puzzles that can truly test someones's skills and abilities, to complex vast multi layered zones, all filled with many kinds of small scale events to do, as well was huge map spanning meta events.

No other content comes even remotely close to offering the vast diversity that Open World does

, so, I am going to have to agree that it really is the ultimate in content in GW2.

In that vein, Legendary is just a Tier of Armor, like Ascended or Exotic, it is the skin that people talk about, as far as Skins go, they have always been content dependent, and that is the way it should be. but like Exotic, or Ascended, there should be other means and modes to get Legendary Armor, each with their own type of skin, while being unique does not nor should it require all the skins to be similar, as truth be told, that is what makes things fun, that the skins look different. I would hate for WvW to actually offer the Evony Skin, I would like for WvW to have it's own Unique Skin directed to that game mode and path.

What I think would be a great solution to the Open World Process, would be

Racial Legendary Armor

. So each race would have their own Legendary Skin, and I think this would make the crafting and creating of the skin much easier on Anet, as they would not need to test the skins across all models. The Charr Armor would be Exclusive to the Charr, so they would only need to make sure that it worked on the Charr Model, and then on down they go. They can start with Norn, then Charr, then Asura, then Sylvari and finally Human.

Consider things this way:Ultimate content, being it PVP, WvW, Raids, FotM is like a carefully crafted 3 course meal. Open world is like the larder/pantry/fridge. Sure it has more diversity and more volume but I'd consider the crafted dish a superior meal over some loose carrots and raw mackerel.

But I don't look at that way. In fact that is pitiful,

if we are going to use a food analogy, Raids and Fractals are single minded content, you go in to do a single task, there is nothing finely crafted about it, it is like a single course meal, that never changes, never goes anywhere, and there are no choices, you end up needing to eat the same thing, each time, in order,.. that sounds bland and boring if you ask me. PvP is not much different, it's a small instance map with the only variable being the skill of the other players, so it's like getting the same meal, cooked by various chefs, some days it's wonderful, other days it comes out crunchy hard and bitter.

WvW, is an Open World Battleground, so, it's like an Open World PvE map, with the added thrill and challenge of PvP. So WvW is more like a buffet, but again, a lot of chefs involved, so the baby back ribs it might be fall off the bone tender, or might me tough as shoe leather. That is the nature of PvP tho.

Where Open world, is a buffet, you can do so much, and the world is open to you to do it. You do not need to do anything, but everything is open to you. In that front it is the ultimate content, like going to a huge buffet restaurant, you may not like what you put on your plate, but the good news is, you don't need to eat it, just go get a different plate of food. It really does not get any better.

Not a bad attempt at an analogy.Raids and FotM are indeed static content

but

there are many different variations so you can always have something different. Are you trying to say that you'd never want to eat the same dish multiple times, even if it was good?

I love some Taco Bell from time to time, because I know exactly what I am going to get, that does not make it a finely crafted meal, nor does it make it the ultimate content. The reason why I eat it, is because I like the predictable and consistent flavor of it.

In those instances you also have to put in some effort to complete the content, whereas is OW you always have the option to wait for other players to make it easier or roll with a zerg. You think WBs like Teq or Shatterer or Claw are hard? of course not, because they just get mobbed by 30/40/50 people spamming skills. Is that ultimate content?

Ok lets go with this,

Shatter

well for starters, I can contribute to Shatter any way I like, be it firing a cannon, running around just raising people, killing branded, I am not stuck doing some scripted task to make this happen, and I can change what I am doing at any time, or I can walk by and not even get involved, and just do the heart behind the event like I had originally planned.

See as @Ohoni.6057 people tend to confuse difficult with ultimate, but.. it being the ultimate content, is based on the fact that I, the player, am in complete control of how I interact with the content and what I do, the choices before me are vast and endless and how I handle them or deal with them, is entirely under my control.

Going back to Shatter. I can just press 1, and hope to win, I can play my heart out as well doing meta max damage, I can fumble and die like a cat strung out on nip dancing on keyboard, those are my choices, and the fact that I have them, is what separates Open World from scripted encounters like Raids.

Don't get me wrong, the content is great, I enjoy it as much as anyone else but would it feel right farming leg armor without challenging encounters? No.PvP/WvW leg armor journey is arguably just time-restricted but the better you perform, the faster you progress.

Why is it, that everyone thinks the only form of challenge comes from killing something?

For example, one of the most Challenging things I ever dealt with was the Mad King jump Puzzle, it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion. The only way I was going to get to the end of that clock tower was of by my own skill and abilities.

No joke, I must have failed that tower hundreds of times,, I spent the better part of that event, just doing that tower, time and time and time again.. until I made it to the top.

After doing that, yes.. I think that would be sufficient to justify giving someone a final piece or part to an Open World Legendary Armor, Collection.

You're wrong again. You could say this

"it was really a good way to set that challenge up, because unlike Raids, Fractals, or any content really, no one could help me, no one could carry me, I could not pay for a completion"

about I don't know, a DPS player.

But raids are more than that. Being a support player myself, I am often in charge of do-it-right-or-wipe mechanics. So my squad depends completely on my skills and abilities. When I handkite Deimos, if I die it's a wipe. When I tank Xera, if I die it's a wipe. When I go through the cave in Escort, if I die it's a wipe. When I play druid, when I die it's also a wipe (because my static only brings one druid to almost all raid encounters). I rely entirely on my abilities to get through the content.

No one can say that I do not deserve a legendary armor for that.

All this tells me is that you were carrying people up a clock tower.. not that you or I are any more or less skilled at what we have chosen to do with our game time, or that either of us are more or less deserving of being equally rewarded with top tier armor.

Of course. There's just that process of proving you deserve to being equally rewarded. In this particular case, it's called "raiding". Go ahead and earn your reward. The game gives everyone the same tools and the same possibilities. Want a specific reward? Then just do the same as everyone else who earned it. Simple and fair, right?

I find it hilarious that raiders expect everyone to do the content related to the reward, until it comes to them doing the content, then they want to be able to buy precursors with mag shards.. love the #doubestandards.

Don't say false things please. That was just ONE person (maddoctor), some more people inclung me commented on the thing but didn't agree.

Stop that.

Your objection was it would devalue the sale of Precursors, and nothing about it devaluing doing the content for the reward.