Hearts and Quests in the new expansion pack

[Kako.1930]

Aren't events and hearts sort of like quests? I'm all for more to do but I'm not sure if I understood the question correctly.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@"Kako.1930" said:Aren't events and hearts sort of like quests? I'm all for more to do but I'm not sure if I understood the question correctly.

They are exactly identical to quests, and in fact, were originally added because players at the start found themselves at a loss about what to do: when there were only dynamic events, they felt there was no direction during the levelling process, and hearts were added to fill the same role that quests had in other games.

Even the occasionally referenced "quest chains" ala the WoW Elwynn Forest Shakespear homage is identically equal to a series of dynamic events, such as the Fire Elemental in Metrica, or the cyclic defend / attack event series with the Asura vs Inquest in "enter from Metrica" Brisbane Wildlands. (Well, ok, not identically equal: those dynamic event sequences don't vanish forever once completed, and can be repeated. If you don't ever repeat them, they are identically equal.)

[Elspereth.1280]

According to Wikipedia (and I personally like this definition):

"A quest or mission in video games—including role-playing video games such as massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs) and their predecessors, MUDs—is a task that a player-controlled character, "party", or group of characters may complete in order to gain a reward.[1][2] Rewards may include loot such as items or in-game currency, access to new level locations or areas, an increase in the character's experience in order to learn new skills and abilities, or any combination of the above.

Quests are typically grouped into one of four categories: kill quests, gather quests, delivery quests, and escort quests. However, quests can include more than one mission, such as gathering something and transporting it somewhere. Quests can be linked together to form quest series or chains. In this manner, quests are used to provide the player with further background to the setting their characters are in. This mechanism is also used to advance any story or plot the game might have.

Many types of quests are referred to as "sidequests". These are specifically tasks which deviate from the main plot, and are often not required to complete the game. Examples include minigames and running errands."

By this definition QW2 is filled with quests. Whether these quests are good or not is a totally different question.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I see no benefit to changing the underlying game mechanics because some people aren't ready to move away from traditional computer game mechanics. If quests are stories, then I prefer to find those stories on my own rather than have them be offered by the game, like some overprotective parent needing to guide my every step. If quests are means to 'earn' rewards through specific goals, then GW2 already handles that, too, via storylines, achievements, and collections.

But besides that, I don't see how turning the clock on mechanics ends up benefiting the game generally. Unless it means we'll get more stories and things to do, I think it's a waste of ANet's time.

[Elspereth.1280]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I see no benefit to changing the underlying game mechanics because some people aren't ready to move away from traditional computer game mechanics. If quests are stories, then I prefer to find those stories on my own rather than have them be offered by the game, like some overprotective parent needing to guide my every step. If quests are means to 'earn' rewards through specific goals, then GW2 already handles that, too, via storylines, achievements, and collections.

But besides that, I don't see how turning the clock on mechanics ends up benefiting the game generally. Unless it means we'll get more stories and things to do, I think it's a waste of ANet's time.

If this was directed toward me (and if it wasn't, feel free to ignore this), I am not asking for any changes to the way GW2 does things. I have no problem with having to go out and find quests/stories on your own. I also have no problem with them being offered by the game. My only point was that GW2 already has quests and that much of what the game offers is questing (at least in my opinion).

[Khailyn.6248]

There are quests in the game. They just look different than what older MMOs look like. Hearts were an extension of the quest system. Sure you could kill 10 centaur to complete the quest OR you can kill 3 centaur, destroy 2 siege weapons, and disable 5 traps on the road to complete it. What GW2 did with the quest model was add flexibility for players to accomplish a task how they wish. I personally would rather do a collection objective than a combat one. Escort quests? They are still present in dynamic events. I absolutely would rather have the ability to do 2-4 different things to accomplish the same goal as doing 1 thing over and over again. Players like to complain about hearts and events being boring, but whats REALLY boring imo is needing to kill exactly 15 kobalds, collecting 10 gold dust and exactly 10 mining tools when competing for kills with other players. I think GW2 has the better approach.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:For open world i like the Hearts+ Events system that GW2 has.Personal Story works very well as an overarching story beat, and some of the Current Events Achievements tell a great story.The problem is, when they tell them as achievements/collections we can't replay that, and that's a major loss.So i'd like to see more small quests like "Knight of the Thorn", "Transfer Chaser", and especially "Burden of Choice", but have them handled in a way that allows for us to replay them, if nothing else once per character, instead of once per account.

Basically any achievement-lead story or exploration bit that sometimes are accountbound suffer from this one time unlock forever done thing. Even parts of the mastery learning, especially for mounts, can be felt a bit lackluster because you can only do it once.

Ofcourse, where it makes sense character bound is great. Accountbound usually isnt great.. imo.

I don't mind utility Masteries like mounts being account bound, since they are quite useful for new characters as well as old ones.In a way i understand your point as in the sense of exploration is very different with and without masteries, and sometimes it's hard to resist the reflex of using them consciously.It would be interesting for challenges and just for the sake of a renewed experience if we could toggle masteries per character. But i wouldn't change masteries or mounts aside from that.

But when it's achievements that tell stories (which, lets face it, masteries don't, not even mount ones), its very frustrating and reductive to tie those to account bound achievements.

Yeah, I suppose its not technically story with the mount masteries. I found it quest related as it is still fairly questlike how you can unlock those mounts. As in, go to the respective heart task, do it and then youre able to get the mount. Which just really means that you sort of progress as you travel. But yeah, I can understand most people just want the ability and dont care for that specific progressive experience.

Most XP grind tied to the masteries I dont find as interesting however.

[battledrone.8315]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Samnang.1879" said:hearts are quests. gw2 should leave behind the ideology of repeatable hearts, annoying af.

LS episodes are good, focus on that rather than quests.

Hearts, or their more official term, "renown tasks" are your typical "kill 10 rats" quests, which are not what anyone really wants with quests.

speak for yourself , if NOBODY wanted them, then there wouldnt have been done 10.000 of them EVERY DAY SINCE LAUNCHif LW/story had the same success, this game would had been the new king of mmos...

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:I want more content like Knight of the Thorn where its outside of LW/expansion and just in Core game.

You may have forgotten this part of that 'quest':

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shards_of_a_Thorn

You may have forgotten the latter half of my sentence.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Samnang.1879" said:hearts are quests. gw2 should leave behind the ideology of repeatable hearts, annoying af.

LS episodes are good, focus on that rather than quests.

Hearts, or their more official term, "renown tasks" are your typical "kill 10 rats" quests, which are not what anyone really wants with quests.

speak for yourself , if NOBODY wanted them, then there wouldnt have been done 10.000 of them EVERY DAY SINCE LAUNCHif LW/story had the same success, this game would had been the new king of mmos...

You should read my post more carefully. I didn't say "nobody wants them", I said "that's not what people want with quests".

In other games, when you're given a quest that is to just fetch and object or kill some foes with no real story or background involving them, and no change to the world with them, that's not really a quest but something put in place to help gain experience for leveling, farm currency, etc - a specific task given for shortening grind, if you will. A proper quest is as sorudo.9054 said in the post above my earlier one: a [side] quest is a story beside the main quest. Renown hearts are not stories, they barely give a background for what and why.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I see no benefit to changing the underlying game mechanics because some people aren't ready to move away from traditional computer game mechanics. If quests are stories, then I prefer to find those stories on my own rather than have them be offered by the game, like some overprotective parent needing to guide my every step. If quests are means to 'earn' rewards through specific goals, then GW2 already handles that, too, via storylines, achievements, and collections.

But besides that, I don't see how turning the clock on mechanics ends up benefiting the game generally. Unless it means we'll get more stories and things to do, I think it's a waste of ANet's time.

Hidden achievements, just like the Side Story achievements, then?

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Just remove hearts and make it all repetable fetch quests other devs done it and they are fine you cant deny it fetch quests is what sells XD (joke)

[hugo.4705]

Quests are fun (I speak about hearts), they make my travel around the map (when I have to complete her) more pleasant and give me the impression that this world is leaving, it gives me some memories about the concerned map: I really apreciate when... this thing was awful... It would be sad to totally forgot this like dungeons.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:I want more content like Knight of the Thorn where its outside of LW/expansion and just in Core game.

You may have forgotten this part of that 'quest':

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shards_of_a_Thorn

You may have forgotten the latter half of my sentence.

Your sentence may have been ambiguous, if you meant you want only part of the quest mentioned. Why even bring it up, then?

[Neeman Oria.7504]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:I want more content like Knight of the Thorn where its outside of LW/expansion and just in Core game.

You may have forgotten this part of that 'quest':

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shards_of_a_Thorn

You may have forgotten the latter half of my sentence.

Your sentence may have been ambiguous, if you meant you want only part of the quest mentioned. Why even bring it up, then?

I believe he means a story that's outside of the main storyline, and also added to the Core experience.

I created a discussion that encouraged me to see what the community really thinks about quests. And there seems to be some confusion on what people mean when they hear the word 'Quest'. Equally though it seems people DO NOT want quests, perhaps this is because of other games and their poorly implemented quest system where everything is a fetch quest. This is not what my post implies, but rather a "story-driven regional quest," unlike a heart where a puzzle must be solved/an item must be acquired/and deduction must take place to continue.

I think I speak for a few others when we say we want more story-oriented tasks much like the legendary journeys, griffin clues/collections, Knight of the Thorn side story.Some of the examples I mentioned above:dulfy.net/2017/09/24/gw2-griffon-mount-collections-guide/dulfy.net/2015/03/26/gw2-precursor-crafting-and-new-legendaries-in-hot/dulfy.net/2017/02/22/gw2-feb-22-current-events-guide/

These stories do take resources, and with a new expansion teaser presumed not to be released until LWS4 finishes there is still time to gather opinions and make suggestions towards the next expansion.

Off the top of my head a quest could go something like this:

1. Kill a certain mob
2. Acquire a key
3. Deduce where to go next/open a tomb and explore inside
4. Acquire mysterious unburied remains(a trophy)
5. Ambient dialogue talks about a thief and a distraught mother who only wanted better for her son
6. Return her the remains and bury them in a gravestone on her property
7. This opens a collection