Deadeye Rework: Feedback [Merged]

[Aeterni.3741]

Don't consider adjustements. Consider a full revert. And if you're not so sure about what the deadeye community actually want (because yes some people say they like it) just do a poll.

[The Mechanic.3567]

i agree with OP, but i have to say DJ on skill 1 in stealth feels incredibly natural. so good job on that. i wouldnt mind the changes if the cooldown on the elite was reduced. that would solve the stealth/reveal issues i think.

[Justin Duval.1954]

@Cougre.6543 said:Depending on how long you wouldn't be revealed upon stealthing, as per your suggestion, this might cause problems with stealth attacks that do not reveal you. Make it too short and you will still be revealed by attacks that hit shortly after stealthing.

I thought of this but if reveal is added to stealth attacks instead of only being tied to stealth break it wouldn't be a problem. Alternatively stealth attacks could have a very brief charge up time when entering stealth to prevent exploiting the mechanic. But the delay I was talking about was in reference to prior auto-attacks and not all attacks from stealth.

[Justin Duval.1954]

@Urejt.5648 said:FIX ASAP!

I suggest removing stealth cooldown from silent scope since dodges are very limited anyway.

Also insta reveal problem has to be fixed. I suggest to make it stealth mid dodge or slightly later after dodge start.

This is a good suggestion on how to fix Silent Scope. I'm hoping the instant reveal problem itself is looked at since it isn't new and ruins many stealth builds.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Xenofly.9321 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Xenofly.9321 said:They literally killed DE in PvP. Can't find a build worth to take ot.

Get good buddy. The change are freaking awesome.

Get constructive buddy, otherwise i can the same about you.

I am working on getting good! So thanks :D

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Kinda a shame that players find DEs burst unfair, with everything other classes can do a Thief can't.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Urejt.5648 said:FIX ASAP!

I suggest removing stealth cooldown from silent scope since dodges are very limited anyway.

Also insta reveal problem has to be fixed. I suggest to make it stealth mid dodge or slightly later after dodge start.

Heart is in the right place but no. Acrobatics DE with swords will be able to get real cheap stealth, and can abuse the hell out of it. It will eventually become Unhindered Combatant all over again.

It's 10secs to passively get dodge again. It's 7 with vigor. And 5 with acrobatics. Sword is already nasty with rune of daredevil. We don't want another reason to get nerfed.

[Aistos.5174]

I agree to everything Bazsi said.

For me the most confusing changes are the ones affecting the rifle skills; means no stealth at kneeling, the absence of cursed bullet and this useless smoke wall.I don‘t even see a goal behind this skill changes...

[Grandtomatoe.2045]

If they just move the stealth to the very end of the dodge roll all your projectiles should have hit already and you should be in stealth.

[Justin Duval.1954]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Urejt.5648 said:FIX ASAP!

I suggest

removing stealth cooldown

from silent scope since dodges are very limited anyway.

Also

insta reveal problem

has to be fixed. I suggest to make it

stealth mid dodge

or slightly later after dodge start.

Heart is in the right place but no. Acrobatics DE with swords will be able to get real cheap stealth, and can abuse the hell out of it. It will eventually become Unhindered Combatant all over again.

It's 10secs to passively get dodge again. It's 7 with vigor. And 5 with acrobatics. Sword is already nasty with rune of daredevil. We don't want another reason to get nerfed.

Silent Scope only effects Rifle.

@Grandtomatoe.2045 said:If they just move the stealth to the very end of the dodge roll all your projectiles should have hit already and you should be in stealth.

Good suggestion but while it may fix Silent Scope it wouldn't fix stealth from other moves being broken by auto-attack.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Justin Duval.1954 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Urejt.5648 said:FIX ASAP!

I suggest

removing stealth cooldown

from silent scope since dodges are very limited anyway.

Also

insta reveal problem

has to be fixed. I suggest to make it

stealth mid dodge

or slightly later after dodge start.

Heart is in the right place but no. Acrobatics DE with swords will be able to get real cheap stealth, and can abuse the hell out of it. It will eventually become Unhindered Combatant all over again.

It's 10secs to passively get dodge again. It's 7 with vigor. And 5 with acrobatics. Sword is already nasty with rune of daredevil. We don't want another reason to get nerfed.

Silent Scope only effects Rifle.

@Grandtomatoe.2045 said:If they just move the stealth to the very end of the dodge roll all your projectiles should have hit already and you should be in stealth.

Good suggestion but while it may fix Silent Scope it wouldn't fix stealth from other moves being broken by auto-attack.

Does it? Good to know.

A likely patch would be to record if a projectile was fired when cloaked or not. Or to not treat rifles auto as a stealth breaker.

[Justin Duval.1954]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

A likely patch would be to record if a projectile was fired when cloaked or not. Or to not treat rifles auto as a stealth breaker.

Recording whether projectiles were fired from stealth or not is what I meant by grace period and is the most straight forward fix from my perspective. Your other idea would fix Silent Scope (and be interesting) but I hope instant reveals are fixed for all moves! Thanks for the clarity and suggestion!

[Bunny.9834]

Give back Malice passive 3% extra damage per point.

Rifle #4 Kneel Skill Sniper's Cover - Change to: Shadowstep to target location. Range 900

Silent Scope - Add: Sniper's Cover - now grants stealth (3 seconds)

Increase rifle range to 2000.

[Morfeus.5248]

I do not understand the need for this nerf, compared to other classes that offer a greater chance of skill, the Deadeye rifle was played on the damage and stealth. You downsized both of them making it non-competitive compared to the usual three or four classes in meta. But we have to play all scourge, Warrior, Necro or druid? But a ranged class is not possible to play it?

[GarthDreamWalker.7806]

Ive been playing p/p deadeye, for a good solid 2-3 weeks now... Just started to get the hang of it this past week, where it can be really fun.I have to agree with the majority of everyone posting that this wasn't a real thought out idea on making changes to the deadeye, especially how the skills affect rifle play. Malice I am a ok with, its changes, makes it a faster build up. Clunky, is a nice way to describe the changes.

1. I have a major issue in having Deaths Judgement as an auto 1 skill, its just not a good spot for major damage skill. Also with it being in the 1 position you have make sure your stopped and untarget your target to verify that it actually is ready to fire in stealth.
2. As mentioned elsewhere... why am I burning a dodge to get a stealth? isn't that already trait-able? The previous stealth on Kneel , #5 was great!
3. the new #4...wtf? seems pretty pointless.. I cant dodge roll through it to stealth, , I have to unkneel and hit 4 to leap back through it. Theres already skills and ways that allow you to drop up a smoke screen or a combo for blinds. Majority of situations ive been in, WvW, you don't have time to sit behind the little smoke screen. Really seems like a waste of a skill.
4. The "new rifle update" makes the rifle skills less efficient.
5. please fix. thanks.

[Jaxd.2196]

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Zephyr.5382 said:Personally, I'm back to my P/P build and trying my best to salvage the wreckage that was the 5/8 patch.

Or you could grow a pair and start playing s/d or d/p like a man instead of being a coward who uses p/p.

Agreed, I just switched to S/D recently after playing D/P daredevil for 2 years, and I absolutely despise getting into 1v1's with PP DE's

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@"trashboat.2560" said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Zephyr.5382 said:Personally, I'm back to my P/P build and trying my best to salvage the wreckage that was the 5/8 patch.

Or you could grow a pair and start playing s/d or d/p like a man instead of being a coward who uses p/p.

Agreed, I just switched to S/D recently after playing D/P daredevil for 2 years, and I absolutely despise getting into 1v1's with PP DE's

Yeah... We can agree that was attrocious.

[Unknown.3976]

Ohh, that explains why I am having an impossible time getting silent scope to work becuz silent scope is broken; getting unstealthed by a shot fired prior to dodging. This cripples Rifle deadeye, how did this even pass the QA.

[Zarfall.6521]

@"Zarfall.6521" said:Then:

Now:

Somehow they got changed to be the same image...? How tf...?

[Madisonlee.9641]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but certain abilities trigger an auto attack which also auto reveals you. Shadow Gust, and hidden thief stealth on steal (from SA line), and I'm sure many more over cross classes. Over the years I've learned to instinctively turn away from my target when stealthing because of this issue.

Edit: This is exacerbated by the fact you CAN'T turn away when kneeling lawl, so the only option is to de-target, meaning some of these abilities are completely unusable without firing off that random revealing auto attack ( hidden thief steal, for example, since it cannot be used without a target lol)

Then you compound that with game mechanic issues like slow attacks or lingering attacks revealing you (this new rifle issue for example) or pulm impact, etc.

we've all gotten used to these things, but for christ's sake at least code your game right devs u_u

Bottom line, Deadeye is probably the clunkiest thing I've ever played in my life

[Zephyr.5382]

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Zephyr.5382 said:Personally, I'm back to my P/P build and trying my best to salvage the wreckage that was the 5/8 patch.

Or you could grow a pair and start playing s/d or d/p like a man instead of being a coward who uses p/p.

Oh, you assumed I use that in PvP. I'm a PvE player. Perhaps if OP had stated the game mode then we could've avoided that confusion. Fair enough. But then you assumed that I never swap to another weapon set. I've always used D/P and kept using it through the Daredevil release (albeit as secondary). And then you go on to hurl insults at me--not once, but twice! tsk tsk But I'm the one that needs to man up. Yeah, okay. And people call PvP toxic. Ha! Shows what they know.

[Madisonlee.9641]

@Sarge shot Grif.6450 said:I had to turn off my auto attack, someone else mentioned fixing this issue by having the stealth occur at the end of the dodge.

And also to be clear, I have autotargeting off and stop auto attacking on target change turned on, and it still happens to me; both the sniper cover roll stealth auto reveal (about 30% of the time for me) and the random auto reveal from abilities that should not be shooting auto attacks (100% of the time if i'm facing the target)

I guess turning off actual weapon auto attack would work? Sad it comes to that tho lol

Edit: yep turning off weapon's auto attack fixes most of the issues I had with exception of lingering attacks of course. Annoying, but i'll take it haha

[Tman.6349]

There would be some (reasonable?) situations where it would still trigger, but I think decreasing the aftercast slightly and increasing velocity would be a good start. It would be a step toward returning some dps also. Moving the stealth too far or some grace period could break some skills for sure.

[Josif.2015]

@Zephyr.5382 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Zephyr.5382 said:Personally, I'm back to my P/P build and trying my best to salvage the wreckage that was the 5/8 patch.

Or you could grow a pair and start playing s/d or d/p like a man instead of being a coward who uses p/p.

Oh, you assumed I use that in PvP. I'm a PvE player.

I have no problems with thieves using p/p Deadeye in PvE. You can use it all you like.

[Josif.2015]

@"trashboat.2560" said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Zephyr.5382 said:Personally, I'm back to my P/P build and trying my best to salvage the wreckage that was the 5/8 patch.

Or you could grow a pair and start playing s/d or d/p like a man instead of being a coward who uses p/p.

Agreed, I just switched to S/D recently after playing D/P daredevil for 2 years, and I absolutely despise getting into 1v1's with PP DE's

You made the right choice. Also, if you ever come across a p/p Deadeye thieves, here's a quick tip on how to deal with them: use Infiltrator's Strike while you're behind cover, the use Flanking Strike to get access to Larcenous Strike, return to your original location with Infiltrator's Return and repeat the same process, only this time you can land your Larcenous Strike. Steal is useful if you need to interrupt their Unload skill or to gain some health. This is how I play s/d thief.