Deadeye Rework: Feedback [Merged]

[bq pd.2148]

now i thought about making a new thread but we already got enough threads - so my feedback or rather wishlist based on the changes :

while i do like some of the changes made to DE , i also dislike nearly as much and think while it is more challanging to play it also feels way more clunky. so here a little list of what i would like to be changed or reverted:

reverts:

• snipers cover : this skill has only use as a cheap, lasting smokefield to stack stealth and we got enough options to stealth on rifle, so i would like to have on this slot back the old DJ, 3/4s cast time, not unblockable, not sure if it should consume malice tho to enable use with m7 ini regain.
• Death's Judgement: this skill was an important part of the PvE rotation, now gated behind stealth makes it IMO very clunky to use for DPS purpose. while in PvP modes requireing stealth is a huge tell, if the thief goes stealth the opponent will lose target and already is focused on incoming attacks, while when casted visibly you could do so during an enemies attack. it is easier to hit someone trying to attack then someone trying to avoid being hit. therefore as in above request please put it back where it was.
• Rifle stealth skill : now that this skill slot is free again i would love to have CB back, this skill altho in some cases weird passing was really good for pvp purpose. malicous cursed bullet could convert additional boons. this way we have a more reliable malice reset, as it wont throw us out of stealth without hitting.

changes:

• Malicious intent : this trait still does cause issues within the community as it 'promotes' stealth camping, altho you need very long. aside from that the trait is not really strong and the alternatives are also not that usefull. i would love this trait to be replaced with 'your attacks are now unblockable during reveal' this would help building up malice as our build up skills need to hit the target, at the same time it would make it impossible to gain m7 without ever hitting the target.
• Silent scope : while i like the base idea of dodge for stealth. this one has several issues. the already frequently mentioned stealth at the beginning of the dodge causing selfreveal, therefore stealth should be applied later during the dodge or at the end. the cooldown reset with kneel is a bit odd, if you want to camp stealth therefore spamm this trait you can just remain kneeling, if you want on the other hand an aggressive in and out of stealth playstyle it gets very clunky to put in a reveal in between as in this playstyle you most probably want to be agile and not sit in a corner. therefor this cooldown as it is if you want to non existent already, could be removed - it is already gated behind endurance. wich gets me to the 3rd point, endurance is not generated faster outfight so it would be nice to remove the in combat requirement. if i dodge the opening skill of my opponent i currently wont get any stealth because of this.
• Premeditation: would like this to swap place with one in the chamber, so we can take it together with silent scope for +crit chance and + damage to help a little the PvE DPS.
• Collateral Damage, Payback, BQoBK : those traits want us to quickly kill targets and right away the next, thats not really how combat is in gw2. either targets are too far away from each other , fights last too long or you simply use an AoE weapon and kill them all at the same time. so to make better use of it, i suggest them triggering every time you hit your mark with a stealth skill and full malice in addition to their current effects. this helps long fights and AoE situations.

i also do feel like malicous shortbow and sword skills are not that great, i understand they need some scalable effect for malice and currently i do not know wich would be better here.and ofc my wish since we got DE: make mark instant cast like steal.

[TwiceDead.1963]

@DragonSlayer.1087 said:

1. Give back Malice passive 3% extra damage per point.

3% is too much with Iron Sight currently being the way it is. Reduce to 1 or 2 depending on M7.

[TheWolf.1602]

silent scope is fine, just turn off auto attacks

[Almondjoy.8964]

I like the changes but I don't like the DPS drop.

There have been a lot of things suggested but I think the simplest would just be to raise the dmg on DJ. Only after they fix the stealth dodge reveal thing to see what the numbers are like after people can't mess up the rotation.

Before PvP people freak out, i've seen skills balanced separately from modes so buff it in PvE and keep it where it is in sPvP.

[babazhook.6805]

i also do feel like malicous shortbow and sword skills are not that great, i understand they need some scalable effect for malice and currently i do not know wich would be better here.

Alternatives. Gain .5 seconds quickness per malice stack. Gain + 50 range per malice stack. Cleanse 1 condition per malice stack. Gain 300 health per malice stack. Might be worse than what we have now so just tossing ideas out there. That said, I do not have that much a problem with the SB skill as it grants some form of AOE and increases its effectiveness as our goto AOE weapon.

snipers cover : this skill has only use as a cheap, lasting smokefield to stack stealth and we got enough options to stealth on rifle, so i would like to have on this slot back the old DJ, 3/4s cast time, not unblockable, not sure if it should consume malice tho to enable use with m7 ini regain.

I have not tried much as of yet, but is this of use against Rangers and RF or other ranged classes at all? Perhaps it just needs a duration add? I did find that when I did use it I barely had time to set it up before it expired . It awkward and clunky to use.

Malicious intent : this trait still does cause issues within the community as it 'promotes' stealth camping, altho you need very long. aside from that the trait is not really strong and the alternatives are also not that usefull. i would love this trait to be replaced with 'your attacks are now unblockable during reveal' this would help building up malice as our build up skills need to hit the target, at the same time it would make it impossible to gain m7 without ever hitting the target.

In a typical power build this skill relatively weak. If in a Condition build with low crit rate it much more usable and helps get some malice on in place of the Crit strike add. I am not too sure how it promotes stealth camping. It MIGHT need a higher Malice gain on one of the heal or mark but I still think it very usable . As to the alternatives in the slot I would rather see a Collateral damage rework. I think it should read ON DOWNING the mark rather then ON KILL and have a short trigger delay to get past the invuln. (It might also need a damage boost) Consideration might also be given to a double trigger, one on the down one on the kill. This latter would require lower damage per trigger.

Collateral Damage, Payback, BQoBK : those traits want us to quickly kill targets and right away the next, thats not really how combat is in gw2. either targets are too far away from each other , fights last too long or you simply use an AoE weapon and kill them all at the same time. so to make better use of it, i suggest them triggering every time you hit your mark with a stealth skill and full malice in addition to their current effects. this helps long fights and AoE situations.

See Collateral damage above for an alternative.

I think everytime one hits from stealth is too much for BqobK payback or Collateral. Alternative would be as another suggested, adding 200 ferocity when BqobK running (which is any time you have quickness) and with Payback increasing cooldown to 20 percent.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

make Deaths judgement skill 4 in Kneel again and place the Snipers Cover into a new F3 slot costing initiative that you can only use while kneeled. make the Dodge to stealth a unique modifier...If you dodge and you are under revealed status then revealed is removed. IF you are NOT under revealed then you dodge and are stealthed. Bring back cursed Bullet

make the snipers cover blind foes like Black Powder...its a god damned smoke field after all! also fix projectile finishers not working with the snipers cover...only blasts work

[Curennos.9307]

Give us an F3 button that applies stealth. Gains charges when you kneel or dodgeroll (or some combintion, or either/or)

[kash.9213]

@babazhook.6805 said:

i also do feel like malicous shortbow and sword skills are not that great, i understand they need some scalable effect for malice and currently i do not know wich would be better here.

Alternatives. Gain .5 seconds quickness per malice stack. Gain + 50 range per malice stack. Cleanse 1 condition per malice stack. Gain 300 health per malice stack. Might be worse than what we have now so just tossing ideas out there. That said, I do not have that much a problem with the SB skill as it grants some form of AOE and increases its effectiveness as our goto AOE weapon.

snipers cover : this skill has only use as a cheap, lasting smokefield to stack stealth and we got enough options to stealth on rifle, so i would like to have on this slot back the old DJ, 3/4s cast time, not unblockable, not sure if it should consume malice tho to enable use with m7 ini regain.

I have not tried much as of yet, but is this of use against Rangers and RF or other ranged classes at all? Perhaps it just needs a duration add? I did find that when I did use it I barely had time to set it up before it expired . It awkward and clunky to use.

Malicious intent : this trait still does cause issues within the community as it 'promotes' stealth camping, altho you need very long. aside from that the trait is not really strong and the alternatives are also not that usefull. i would love this trait to be replaced with 'your attacks are now unblockable during reveal' this would help building up malice as our build up skills need to hit the target, at the same time it would make it impossible to gain m7 without ever hitting the target.

In a typical power build this skill relatively weak. If in a Condition build with low crit rate it much more usable and helps get some malice on in place of the Crit strike add. I am not too sure how it promotes stealth camping. It MIGHT need a higher Malice gain on one of the heal or mark but I still think it very usable . As to the alternatives in the slot I would rather see a Collateral damage rework. I think it should read ON DOWNING the mark rather then ON KILL and have a short trigger delay to get past the invuln. (It might also need a damage boost) Consideration might also be given to a double trigger, one on the down one on the kill. This latter would require lower damage per trigger.

Collateral Damage, Payback, BQoBK : those traits want us to quickly kill targets and right away the next, thats not really how combat is in gw2. either targets are too far away from each other , fights last too long or you simply use an AoE weapon and kill them all at the same time. so to make better use of it, i suggest them triggering every time you hit your mark with a stealth skill and full malice in addition to their current effects. this helps long fights and AoE situations.

See Collateral damage above for an alternative.

I think everytime one hits from stealth is too much for BqobK payback or Collateral. Alternative would be as another suggested, adding 200 ferocity when BqobK running (which is any time you have quickness) and with Payback increasing cooldown to 20 percent.

Snipers cover might be alright with the accepted drawback of taking a second or two more to think about and place it but it feels just too short in length to cover a decent cone in front of me for it's duration. I don't feel covered with it.

I pretty much agree with MUD's points, at least they're a reasonable switch of a few things that wouldn't throw things more out of wack and should still keep the overall intent of the new changes for people who dig them.

[bq pd.2148]

@babazhook.6805 said:

snipers cover : this skill has only use as a cheap, lasting smokefield to stack stealth and we got enough options to stealth on rifle, so i would like to have on this slot back the old DJ, 3/4s cast time, not unblockable, not sure if it should consume malice tho to enable use with m7 ini regain.

I have not tried much as of yet, but is this of use against Rangers and RF or other ranged classes at all? Perhaps it just needs a duration add? I did find that when I did use it I barely had time to set it up before it expired . It awkward and clunky to use.

it would be better if it was automatically used ON you, now you have to aim a direction to set it up on a little distance so if your target moves you have to cancel your kneel to adjust your position. if the ranger was just him it might be of use then, but the pet will come and body block + hit you. longer duration would just further devalue BP as a smokefield.

Malicious intent : this trait still does cause issues within the community as it 'promotes' stealth camping, altho you need very long. aside from that the trait is not really strong and the alternatives are also not that usefull. i would love this trait to be replaced with 'your attacks are now unblockable during reveal' this would help building up malice as our build up skills need to hit the target, at the same time it would make it impossible to gain m7 without ever hitting the target.

In a typical power build this skill relatively weak. If in a Condition build with low crit rate it much more usable and helps get some malice on in place of the Crit strike add. I am not too sure how it promotes stealth camping. It MIGHT need a higher Malice gain on one of the heal or mark but I still think it very usable . As to the alternatives in the slot I would rather see a Collateral damage rework. I think it should read ON DOWNING the mark rather then ON KILL and have a short trigger delay to get past the invuln. (It might also need a damage boost) Consideration might also be given to a double trigger, one on the down one on the kill. This latter would require lower damage per trigger.

oh it does take ages to build malice with just MI, but some people here think there shouldnt be any possibility to get to m7 without hitting the target. because even if it takes 10 min someone might onehit them like this. so to kinda take out that counter argument and improve the build up shots i thought unblockable during reveal would be nice. because if you block buildup hits, ini is gone , no malice = no m7 and no incoming stealth attack burst.and you know soulbeast has soo much unblockable, i want that too :D

Collateral Damage, Payback, BQoBK : those traits want us to quickly kill targets and right away the next, thats not really how combat is in gw2. either targets are too far away from each other , fights last too long or you simply use an AoE weapon and kill them all at the same time. so to make better use of it, i suggest them triggering every time you hit your mark with a stealth skill and full malice in addition to their current effects. this helps long fights and AoE situations.

See Collateral damage above for an alternative.

I think everytime one hits from stealth is too much for BqobK payback or Collateral. Alternative would be as another suggested, adding 200 ferocity when BqobK running (which is any time you have quickness) and with Payback increasing cooldown to 20 percent.

thing is do you need further aoe damage after the target is down or rather a constant AoE preassure? i think we lack AoE and triggering collateral on every stealth attack that hits the target while

on max malice

would improve our AoE. so not every time but you need to build up malice before. same is for BQoBK its rather low uptime on quickness, considering you dont have those perfectionists buffs and ini anymore with it. and payback is so weak i dont think that would be too much then.

[Sandling.3648]

For me, not only this happens but also......I DODGEROLL INTO STEALTH WHILE I'M HOLDING PISTOLS!

[Sandling.3648]

@TheWolf.1602 said:silent scope is fine, just turn off auto attacks

I turn off auto attacks but the thing that Justin said still happens.

[Sandling.3648]

Too much darn thing happened to deadeye, not only this nerf on rifle but also tons of bugs.

[Sandling.3648]

I'm a player main in PvE, so if anybody main in PvP or WvW have some different idea, or just against my opinion, I'd like to hear about it cause I don't know if the new deadeye would perform decently in those game modes.

First, there are some bugs :

1. I got silent scope selected in the deadeye trait, but many times when I dodge roll with a rifle, I immediately got out of stealth in the middle of it, even though I switched off auto attack.

2. Today when I was holding pistols, without selecting the silent scope, when I dodge roll in the fight, guess what, I became stealth.

Second, about the new mechanic, the designer may haven't considered some situation that would totally make deadeye a useless camper:

1. For example, when you got many mobs between you and the one you marked, surely we got pierce bullets when kneeling, but more than 5 fragile trash mobs will totally waste your crit hit that you can not hit the target you marked to get malice and if this happens in a long fight(such as the Moa bounty and the doppelganger fight which with countless mobs), Deadeye is truly Dead.

2. The new mechanic has totally make deadeye a newbie killer profession, you need to pay attention to your auto attack and malice stack since the auto attack after an un-timing dodge(when you did not have full malice stack) will make the shot like a fart. We play games for fun, not for torturing ourselves.

Hope this post would make some change to deadeye or, if I'm wrong, I'd like to hear anything that I could learn from.

[Will.9785]

I want to take a minute to talk about malice exclusively benefiting stealth attacks. As you know, many weapon sets don't have access to stealth and in some cases (e.g. pistol/pistol) the malicious stealth attack isn't helpful at all. This essentially renders these weapon sets useless for the elite spec.

I would like to propose a few things.

1 - all of the malicious attacks that were added recently? yeah... they are all removed from the game (no offense to the people who spent time designing them).

2 - Rifle is reverted back to its previous state (again, no offense is intended but I think most preferred the old rifle).

3 - The elite skill, Shadow Meld, is buffed. The new description: "Remove revealed, stealth yourself, and refill your malice stacks if your current mark has below 50% health".

4 - a new F3 mechanic to consume malice is added to the profession. This instant-cast ability would consume all malice stacks and boost the next weapon skill's power and condition damage by 7% per stack. If you are stealthed when activating the weapon skill the bonus is increased to 10% per stack.

This would place an emphasis on stealth (bigger bonus) but now even non-stealth builds can get some benefit.

The change to the way malice is gained (by hitting with initiative spending attacks) would stay. The only ways to gain malice would be from spending initiative or the elite skill.

Thoughts?

[bq pd.2148]

no. you want a consume malice to use M7 without stealth, that is fine but why would you want to revert so much for it.just add a consume malice f3, that grants some debuff to the target like target gets 2% more damage for each malice stack consumed for 10 seconds. no need to change all the malicious attacks if you want to use them, whats your issue with those skills?

[Specialka.7290]

Would be nice for the F3 thingy for DJ because roll to stealth is unreliable and sometimes unwanted. But I am against any form of buff for p/p DE in Pvp.

[Will.9785]

@MUDse.7623 said:no. you want a consume malice to use M7 without stealth, that is fine but why would you want to revert so much for it.just add a consume malice f3, that grants some debuff to the target like target gets 2% more damage for each malice stack consumed for 10 seconds. no need to change all the malicious attacks if you want to use them, whats your issue with those skills?

My issue is that some of them just aren't that good to begin with and having to remember even more skills/effects for each weapon goes against one of the stated goals the designer said he had with the rework, which was to reduce complexity. I think its one area of the rework that was over-designed. Sometimes simple is better IMO.

Changing it to a 2% buff per stack for 10 seconds is an idea worth considering. Part of the reason for this thread is to get people's thoughts on what a consume malice ability might look like.

One of the issues with the 10 second buff approach might be that with the changes to malice it will essentially be a permanent 10-14% buff. Not that I'd have anything against that necessarily but it is a different design. My approach would keep some of the essence of the rework intact (the idea that a single attack would benefit from malice stacks).

[ShadowAgent.6053]

I like the idea of having a specific ability to consume malice, but I'm not sure about what the nature of the ability should be so it is useful to all weapon sets.

Also, an additional concerns is that it will become very similar to the warrior's adrenaline system.

[babazhook.6805]

thing is do you need further aoe damage after the target is down or rather a constant AoE preassure? i think we lack AoE and triggering collateral on every stealth attack that hits the target while on max malice would improve our AoE. so not every time but you need to build up malice before. same is for BQoBK its rather low uptime on quickness, considering you dont have those perfectionists buffs and ini anymore with it. and payback is so weak i dont think that would be too much then.

I am just going to speak to BqoBk'ed here as a skill and why your suggested fix would be overpowering.

The current 4 seconds quickness on applying a mark is deceiving. Quickness is a very powerfull trait which is why the base time of most quickness is low when compared to other boons. I have a boon duration build that invests in Quickness uptime using all sources of the same to push uptime over 50+ percent. This does come at a cost as I need to trait haste in utilities and take BOA in traits along with that boon duration. Under your system I can all but guarantee 100 percent quickness uptime in specific weaponsets even as I drop haste.

In particular I speak to d/p which already saw a significant boost to its damage via the backstab and new Malice. Stealth is easy with d/p and under your system I can easily apply quickness on an ongoing basis even as I benefit from malice max stacked for that damage boost. I feel this just too much at once. Yes it possible to do a backstab with full malice after a mark under the current system but this is not guaranteed to happen and its not something that can done at will. BqoBk using hidden killer for guaranteed crit, with 5 malice running for the backstab +200 power and having 100 percent crit chance for 2 seconds with quickness running will be sick.

[Gaile Gray.6029]

This is a merged thread made up of nearly a dozen different threads with the same topic: Feedback on the Deadeye. A forum member kindly aggregated the many threads and created a new Consolidated Thread that you may join here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/39706/consolidated-suggestions-for-de-changes. This will help keep the feedback focused and more meaningful than so many random (and sometimes redundant) threads.

Thanks for understanding.

[Holykitten.3064]

On page 3 onwards, this thread has been wrongfully merged with a Deadeye feedback thread, as well as being merged with an older thread not related to the newest issue of game interaction with Win10.This entire merge is a mess and not very helpful.@Gaile Gray.6029

[GreyWolf.8670]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:On page 3 onwards, this thread has been wrongfully merged with a Deadeye feedback thread, as well as being merged with an older thread not related to the newest issue of game interaction with Win10.This entire merge is a mess and not very helpful.@Gaile Gray.6029

I tried to report the first post from the unrelated topic and it keeps giving me an error saying it couldn't be completed. Maybe Gaile will see these posts.

[System]

This discussion was created from comments split from: Game alt-tabbing or flashing desktop [merged].