Deadeye Rework: Feedback [Merged]

[Almondjoy.8964]

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Almondjoy.8964 said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Almondjoy.8964 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Almondjoy.8964 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

That's pretty consistent with what I was finding as well, that D/D is pulled up a bit by it in the below 25% range where using full malice backstabs is actually practical. I am not able to hit anywhere near the 31k I was hitting on rifle with the old brain-dead rotation, the dodge to stealth trait ofc has a 10s cooldown unless you re-kneel and even with that I found that it... doesn't always actually work. The old build ofc relied on hitting a DJ every 6 seconds.

I had the same problem too during my testing its a weird cancel thing. So when you're spamming 3 you have to wait for the whole cast time to finish not just the animation. If you dodge during triple shot, one of the shots will sorta count as your attack revealing you and taking away your chance to DJ.

Also if you dodge while kneeling and don't cancel the kneel during the dodge, silent scope won't trigger a CD. Essential just stay in kneel during dodge and it should work just fine.

Even auto-attacks were causing me to reveal, and I think this is because the stealth happens at the start of the dodge roll rather than the end, which means ANY projectile of any kind on its way to the target when you start to dodge will immediately reveal you.

Yeah, you're exactly right. I had auto attacks enabled and I even had to disable them as well for it to work fully. Maybe from an ease of use standpoint Id like to see the stealth at the end but, I can also get used to this way I just gotta be aware not to botch that and ill be fine.

Well, by its very nature it's kinda poor design when compared to stealth on kneel. You're burning two of a thief's active defenses at the same time (dodge/stealth) for something half as effective. It's clear they did it in order to get rid of the ammo counter on kneel but, it doesn't really work out the way it should. It's almost too much risk to stealth this way and so I find myself relying on other methods instead.

That's a huge problem. Right now all of your dps depends on your other class resources. You build malice super fast and lose it all with 1 ability. So your elite skill needs to give stealth, your heal skill needs to give stealth (and needs to be used as a damage cooldown), your dodges need to be used as a damage resource, and any utility skill that gives stealth basically. They just tied everything around stealth and took away our ability to choose how we build a deadeye because our main class mechanic for damage is now tied to stealth.

Thats not fair to the devs, if were looking at the way dodge/stealth thing works I don't think it was meant to be something as our only means of escape. If were trying to mitigate damage dogding is just fine the stealth is only a bonus that we can now turn into offense. We don't need to stack stealth utility because of it. On top of that Meld still has 2 counts and the heal stealth which most of the time I find myself using those defensively in PvP and PvE.

Because M7 which grants Vigor which meand we will always have that dodge roll availble to us for defense and offense when we need it. I really don't feel like im burning resources doing it to attack or dodge.

Also if we don't want to use stealth and save our dodges we have kneel 4 which is very good and under utilized right now. So in some situations just try kneel 4, it last quite awhile. If need be you can DR in it for more stealth and its a defensive option that doesnt use endurance.

We have options and various ways were just used to the old way we gotta adapt

It's more complicated than that. It's not JUST that it makes us choose between losing a dodge to get an offensive damage boost or losing a stealth in order to dodge... it's that even the offensive boost is questionable because the stealth activates at the beginning of the dodge. What that means is that if you were auto-attacking with rifle, and you dodge to stealth so that you can DJ (losing the defensive utility of a dodge in the process), then the projectile from your auto finishes traveling to the target and immediately reveals you. Now you've used a dodge, and a stealth opportunity, and also gained no offensive boost from it at all, wasting three opportunities all at once. I am fine with something being risk reward, but right now the "reward" is too buggy to be worth the opportunity cost of using it in the first place.

No I agree with this. I want to be able to get that stealth at the end so we dont get auto revealed. Speaking purely in a perfect world scenario where we don't mess it up ever, the damage/utility in the move is fine. Just change it to the end is all I really want.

[Gop.8713]

@AnClar.1304 said:

@Heather.4823 said:It’s not focus assist. Lots of us turned it off and still get it

Yep...turning off focus assist did not fix the issue for me, but it did change it. What it did was: with focus assist off, the flicker to desktop was a much shorter one...it still happens every time I switch zones or load in a new map, but instead of a 3-5 second drop to desktop with focus assist on, it is now a second or less with focus assist off. As of now, the only way I can totally eliminate the flicker is still by running GW2 in Windowed Fullscreen mode.

Yeah, same thing here so Nikon's fix did help a bit . . .

Running as admin did nothing for me though . . .

[Amhiel.6195]

Focus Assist isn't the issue. I've had that off since day one of this 5wk old new computer build. I even reinstalled the game on the old computer that it was on for 4 yrs, and it too has the same problem. Can't even play the game at this point. I can't believe how long this has been going on. It's been building up for a while now. About 2 months now I've been having the logging in and map change portion of this problem. Now I can't even stay in game for more than 3 mins then it freezes, and goes to desktop. btw guys when you submit a technical support ticket, check your email in a few hours. They will send you a link that you need to run to gather some files. Run it, takes several mins, so just take your monthly shower like I did while it runs, and send them back the file. If you don't do this you will be waiting a lot longer for an answer, because that first reply will be them asking for those files anyway.

[Leablo.2651]

As I reported in the Thief forum, this issue also occurs with Deadeye's Mark if you have traited it to both grant stealth and an attack. They apparently coded a delay into the stealth to prevent the attack portion from revealing you... so you get revealed by the following autoattack instead. This won't happen when you engage with F1 but will happen any time you refresh it during combat. Simply put, autoattack/stealth desync invalidates the entire theory of Deadeye gameplay. You should probably think of a general solution to this.

Also, while we're on crippling deficiencies in the Thief class, the underwater update appears to have enabled one (1) new skill to work underwater. I don't know if any other profession has this situation where half of their entire skill selection is disabled in water (including some of the most useful ones), but that's still the case for thief. It's especially punishing for builds that emphasize Cantrips, Deceptions, or Traps, since each of these types have at least 3 of 4 skills disabled. The instant you touch the water you're forced to play an entirely different build.

[xTreme xD.1368]

Ur welcome i hope the fix it soon!So we can really test the potential of the new deadeye!

[Urejt.5648]

FIX ASAP!

I suggest removing stealth cooldown from silent scope since dodges are very limited anyway.

Also insta reveal problem has to be fixed. I suggest to make it stealth mid dodge or slightly later after dodge start.

[Tashigi.3159]

You can test it right now.Try to dodge roll only after you use Three Round Burst, then follow up with DJ from Stealth. If you do that, you'll prevent your normal #1 skill from firing.The highest I've reached damage wise, is 26.8K DPS (A net loss of 5K DPS for me, but others are reporting bigger losses).

[Rezzet.3614]

needs looking into instead of insta slapping a random fix so something else doesnt break , so far the issue seems more l2p than actual mechanical problem the whole point of deadeye is Timing , your elite is a stealth reset as well so even if you mess up you can re attempt your shot but even if i am wrong, it needs time to be analized

[Urejt.5648]

FIX ASAP!

• I suggest removing stealth cooldown from silent scope since dodges are very limited anyway.
• Also insta reveal problem has to be fixed. I suggest to make it stealth mid dodge or slightly later after dodge start.

[Urejt.5648]

@"xTreme xD.1368" said:i made a video on that exact problem or with the stealth rifle attack in general maybe it helps them to figure out the problem faster.Its in german though but... you see that exact problem in the video

[Sharps.4195]

who thought it was a good idea to tie the main dps attack to the dodge roll? now we have to either use our dodge for our class mechanic or use it not die from aoe circles of death. why is that a choice we have to make!?

[MiskoV.3856]

Wildstar enginner gameplay flashbacks

[Aistos.5174]

I don‘t get it at all either. The new system takes out the whole fun of the game as a rifle-DE.

If they wanted to try a new malice system then let‘s try it, if they wanted to nerf DJ then nerf it - but why does this need the whole rifle skill system to be messed up?

[Aistos.5174]

100% agree, only that we already have immobilize at #2. So just take away this ridiculous smoke wall and put all the skills (and stealths) back to where they belong.

[xTreme xD.1368]

@Urejt.5648 said:FIX ASAP!

• I suggest removing stealth cooldown from silent scope since dodges are very limited anyway.
• Also insta reveal problem has to be fixed. I suggest to make it stealth mid dodge or slightly later after dodge start.

Those are both really great request that could fix half of the problem ...It would fix the Problem of the dodgeroll into instant reveal, but not the one where you use stealth utility skills and get revealed instantly.So please @Robert Gee.9246 and the rest of the team look into that!

[Klypto.1703]

I like the idea of a dodge roll to stealth. However that method only works in combat so we trade a decent on demand stealth for one that is limited by our endurance which is something that technically would be daredevil based. So I am thinking either give the rifle back some on demand stealth or some way to generate enough endurance for it to be viable. That on demand stealth gave the ability to use d/d and not have to deal with the d/p which would be a nightmare to get malice up with that.

[Manpag.6421]

Maybe I'm missing something, but can't you just Shadow Meld for the stealth to use Death's Judgement? Besides, while DJ is the iconic DE skill, Three Round Burst is pretty close to it in damage without requiring stealth.

[Josif.2015]

@Sharps.4195 said:who thought it was a good idea to tie the main dps attack to the dodge roll? now we have to either use our dodge for our class mechanic or use it not die from aoe circles of death. why is that a choice we have to make!?

It's because now you have to work to get your kills as a Deadeye. No longer are you able stun people from stealth and burst them all from pressing one button. This nerf is justifed, maybe not for all the changed traits, but definitely for most of the annoying ones that create the cheapness with Deadeye.

[Xenofly.9321]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Xenofly.9321 said:They literally killed DE in PvP. Can't find a build worth to take ot.

Get good buddy. The change are freaking awesome.

Get constructive buddy, otherwise i can the same about you.

[CyanideRayne.2413]

What makes even less sense is that we lost our boon hate, and our burst and and and and. What did we gain? More complex way to stealth? Slightly more spammable Death's judgement that does 1/3rd the damage? So what is rifle supposed to be again?

[The Hat.1493]

Useing Spotters shot does grant vigour and there's always the Signet of agility for restoring endurance.I do like the stealth at the start of the roll, its lovely for quick re positioning in pvp yet you can still be revealed by a reveal if anyone's smart enough to put one on you.

[Rayth.2816]

+1 to TheMaskedGamer.5708, this issue is the most important.

Sarge shot Grif.6450 : Delay stealth after a dodge is a bad idea. The enemi will know where you are very easily (especially kneeling).The changes made on Deadeye are very bad. The loss of dps is very consistent, the mechanics are unpleasant and not synergistic.

Huge disappointment.

[TwiceDead.1963]

@Cameryn.5310 said:

@Robert Gee.9246 said:Thanks for the detailed feedback. We'll keep this in mind for future adjustments.

Robert, you specifically responded to me the other day about P/P deadeyes in PVE. You said it would be better now, in your opinion. Can you please explain that to me?

There is nothing I have that uses Malice

except the two substandard cantrips granting me a little stealth, and the only benefit is a minor torment debuff; why would I care about that instead of another round of Unload?

I would very much appreciate your input on this, because if I'm missing something I'd love to know.

P/P is better in PvE now.Sure, in the past you may have had a higher potential damage multiplier, but overall damage shouldn't suffer because there is no the ramp-up anymore, we get an instantaneous 10-13% boost as soon as you mark the target, thanks to M7 and Premeditation. When M7 procs, you get a minimum of 16% damage against your target.

In addition to that, when before you would have to halt your Unload chain thanks to exhausting your Ini- pool and resort to filler autos... You can now keep your Unloads going for MUCH longer, again because of the Initiative refund you get from M7, which you can proc multiple times in an encounter, which isn't even taking into account the opportunity to bring other Initiative reload utilities. You'll practically never starve for Initiative with P/P, in comparison to before.

[syszery.1592]

That and the small obstacles people already pointed out - like the clunkiness (Silent Scope threat).

[Zalavaaris.5329]

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Sharps.4195 said:who thought it was a good idea to tie the main dps attack to the dodge roll? now we have to either use our dodge for our class mechanic or use it not die from aoe circles of death. why is that a choice we have to make!?

It's because now you have to work to get your kills as a Deadeye. No longer are you able stun people from stealth and burst them all from pressing one button. This nerf is justifed, maybe not for all the changed traits, but definitely for most of the annoying ones that create the cheapness with Deadeye.

I'm pretty sure them mentioning dps means they weren't talking about pvp. But that's just my assumption .