Deadeye Rework: Feedback [Merged]

[TheMaskedGamer.5708]

@Funky.4861 said:I thought it worked like this:

1. Mark your target
2. Use initiative-skills to generate malice (you can do this whilst kneeling, or kneel whenever you want)
3. Dodge-roll whilst kneeling to gain 3sec of stealth with the silent scope trait (or just enter stealth, you don't need silent scope)
4. Once stealthed, your autoattack flips to the stealth attack and you can use Death's Judgement, preferably on your marked target. Note that you do not automatically use Death's Judgement, you have to press '1' (or whatever keybind/mouse button you use for that skill).
5. When it hits, all of your stored malice is used up and you are revealed.

So you basically have 3secs to hit your target once you have dodged into stealth when using the silent scope trait.

The thing is that Death's Judgement is not a kneel skill anymore, it's just the stealth attack of the rifle; the only condition to access the skill is that you are stealthed. However, I don't know what happens to the projectile if you are revealed before it hits its target...

You are right on the money when it comes to the steps, but the issue comes when during your rifle autoattack, your projectile takes a bit of time to reach its target. Now the instance of rolling to stealth happens, if I immediately fired an attack, then roll to stealth, the projectile hasn't hit the target yet. Once I finish the roll and I'm stealthed, the previous projectile hits its target. That projectile hit cancels your stealth, making you lose the ability to do Death's Judgement. This feels clunky as hell and to me is unintended.

[Justin Duval.1954]

Silent Scope problem:

1. While auto-attacking a target with rifle use dodge
2. Stealth will trigger but often is immediately removed from the prior auto-attack

This isn't a new issue for stealth but it breaks Silent Scope. If there was a short grace period when using stealth your prior auto-attacks wouldn't reveal you.

Or is there a reasonable explanation as to why this happens?

[Tashigi.3159]

No. That's exactly why it happens.Being so highly dependent on Death Judgement for DPS rotation, this can hurt you a lot. There is also the 11% damage loss from losing the old Malice... man, don't get me started, I am furious.

[LadyKitty.6120]

@Phosphorite.6192 said:

@LadyKitty.6120 said:Kitty now tested rest of pure DPS deadeye builds and she got this kind of results (don't mind the %s, Kitty's using 34k as fixed point to compare her results to):

Thanks for the testing. Would you be able to do the same for Condi builds?

Kitty kinda will (both Viper's and grieving builds), though conditeef is one of Kitty's weakest points so her test results on that one will be less accurate than usual.

[Justin Duval.1954]

@Tashigi.3159 said:No. That's exactly why it happens.Being so highly dependent on Death Judgement for DPS rotation, this can hurt you a lot. There is also the 11% damage loss from losing the old Malice... man, don't get me started, I am furious.

Yeah, I want to give the changes a chance but this is broken!

[Funky.4861]

@TheMaskedGamer.5708 said:

You are right on the money when it comes to the steps, but the issue comes when during your rifle autoattack, your projectile takes a bit of time to reach its target. Now the instance of rolling to stealth happens, if I immediately fired an attack, then roll to stealth, the projectile hasn't hit the target yet. Once I finish the roll and I'm stealthed, the previous projectile hits its target. That projectile hit cancels your stealth, making you lose the ability to do Death's Judgement. This feels clunky as hell and to me is unintended.

So you're saying that you already have a shot on it's way when you enter stealth- i'll try to do this a bit later, but i don't recall this happening during my testing in Southsun last night. It makes sense, and to me there're only two things you can do about it; be super-quick and pop DJ as soon as the skill flips, or wait for your 'current' shot to land before stealthing (which definately feels derpy). Perhaps i was being derpy last night, who knows...? :)

[xTreme xD.1368]

i made a video on that exact problem or with the stealth rifle attack in general maybe it helps them to figure out the problem faster.Its in german though but... you see that exact problem in the video

[JonnyForgotten.4276]

@Bezerker.2379 said:My issue is that I did NOT play a stealth rifle build. I played an unforgiving rifle stun build. My gameplay changed drastically.

The only issue I have with this patch is sword's stealth attack from DE is terrible. The only time I would want to use it is when I want toregen endurance so i can swap back to rifle and dodge stealth for DJ, but using it will eat all my malice anyway. tableflip

In the same boat as you mate. Losing Unforgiving was an absolute kick in the teeth for my s/p stunlocker build. . . perhaps if they brought that back, I could work around the other changes.

[JonnyForgotten.4276]

Would like Unforgiving back. . . .feel like I could work around the other changes.

[Justin Duval.1954]

@"xTreme xD.1368" said:i made a video on that exact problem or with the stealth rifle attack in general maybe it helps them to figure out the problem faster.Its in german though but... you see that exact problem in the video

Thanks, this is it!

[Robert Gee.9246]

@TheMaskedGamer.5708 said:I have found and issue while attempting to do a combo with the new Deadeye. I really enjoy the new Silent Scope trait that allows you to go to stealth after a dodge roll. Makes a great opportunity to dish out your stealth attacks immediately after. However, I've found an issue when attempting to do that with the rifle.

The issue comes with the nature of projectiles taking their time to hit the target. In the combo, I of course would Mark the target, use Iniciative skills to charge Malice, go to stealth specifically the Slient Scope dodge roll to stealth, then attempt to use the new Stealth Attack, Death's Judgement. However, if doing this at maximum range(kneeling or otherwise), the autoattacks takes about a second to hit the enemy target. Within that second I roll in order to stealth and use the stealth skill, but by the time I go to stealth, the autoattack projectile finally hits the target. The issue is that once that projectile hits, it reveals me before I could use the Stealth Skill. It cancels out my stealth.

Now I've heard that persisting attacks (as an example on Longbow Ranger, use the AoE skill 5, and then try to use Skill 3 to stealth, but gets revealed immediately since targets are getting hit.) or attacks that take its time to reach the enemy cause this problem. There should be a fix to eliminate this issue. Like any attack or skill persistent or not that comes out before stealth should not reveal you.

Hope this feedback helps.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. We'll keep this in mind for future adjustments.

[Zedek.8932]

Wait, you are "keeping it in mind" for "future" "adjustments"?This is crippling the mechanics, it should be top priority to be fixed immediately.If you don't test these terrible Deadeye changes (on all levels), you already saved time. Now you can invest these for at least a tiny bit of quality management.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Xenofly.9321 said:They literally killed DE in PvP. Can't find a build worth to take ot.

Get good buddy. The change are freaking awesome.

[Volrath.1473]

@Robert Gee.9246 said:

@TheMaskedGamer.5708 said:I have found and issue while attempting to do a combo with the new Deadeye. I really enjoy the new Silent Scope trait that allows you to go to stealth after a dodge roll. Makes a great opportunity to dish out your stealth attacks immediately after. However, I've found an issue when attempting to do that with the rifle.

The issue comes with the nature of projectiles taking their time to hit the target. In the combo, I of course would Mark the target, use Iniciative skills to charge Malice, go to stealth specifically the Slient Scope dodge roll to stealth, then attempt to use the new Stealth Attack, Death's Judgement. However, if doing this at maximum range(kneeling or otherwise), the autoattacks takes about a second to hit the enemy target. Within that second I roll in order to stealth and use the stealth skill, but by the time I go to stealth, the autoattack projectile finally hits the target. The issue is that once that projectile hits, it reveals me before I could use the Stealth Skill. It cancels out my stealth.

Now I've heard that persisting attacks (as an example on Longbow Ranger, use the AoE skill 5, and then try to use Skill 3 to stealth, but gets revealed immediately since targets are getting hit.) or attacks that take its time to reach the enemy cause this problem. There should be a fix to eliminate this issue. Like any attack or skill persistent or not that comes out before stealth should not reveal you.

Hope this feedback helps.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. We'll keep this in mind for future adjustments.

What do you mean keep in mind for future adjustments?It I broken! I get reveled 6 out of 10 times (maybe more)... Are you guys just gonna leave it like this?

[Tashigi.3159]

@Robert Gee.9246 said:Thanks for the detailed feedback. We'll keep this in mind for future adjustments.

Sir, this is game breaking. You just stripped nearly 5.5K DPS off Rifle DE and this bugs makes that DPS loss even greater.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@JonnyForgotten.4276 said:

@Bezerker.2379 said:My issue is that I did NOT play a stealth rifle build. I played an unforgiving rifle stun build. My gameplay changed drastically.

The only issue I have with this patch is sword's stealth attack from DE is terrible. The only time I would want to use it is when I want toregen endurance so i can swap back to rifle and dodge stealth for DJ, but using it will eat all my malice anyway.

tableflip

In the same boat as you mate. Losing Unforgiving was an absolute kick in the teeth for my s/p stunlocker build. . . perhaps if they brought that back, I could work around the other changes.

Take acrobatics with sword pistol or sword dagger. It becomes a very strong dueling set with dodge for days.

Using a rune that restores endurance on swap is a good idea too.

[Rengaru.4730]

It's actually worse, the trait is pretty much broken at this point in time.In

video you can clearly see the guy not attacking for several seconds but he still gets instantly revealed.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Robert Gee.9246 said:

@TheMaskedGamer.5708 said:I have found and issue while attempting to do a combo with the new Deadeye. I really enjoy the new Silent Scope trait that allows you to go to stealth after a dodge roll. Makes a great opportunity to dish out your stealth attacks immediately after. However, I've found an issue when attempting to do that with the rifle.

The issue comes with the nature of projectiles taking their time to hit the target. In the combo, I of course would Mark the target, use Iniciative skills to charge Malice, go to stealth specifically the Slient Scope dodge roll to stealth, then attempt to use the new Stealth Attack, Death's Judgement. However, if doing this at maximum range(kneeling or otherwise), the autoattacks takes about a second to hit the enemy target. Within that second I roll in order to stealth and use the stealth skill, but by the time I go to stealth, the autoattack projectile finally hits the target. The issue is that once that projectile hits, it reveals me before I could use the Stealth Skill. It cancels out my stealth.

Now I've heard that persisting attacks (as an example on Longbow Ranger, use the AoE skill 5, and then try to use Skill 3 to stealth, but gets revealed immediately since targets are getting hit.) or attacks that take its time to reach the enemy cause this problem. There should be a fix to eliminate this issue. Like any attack or skill persistent or not that comes out before stealth should not reveal you.

Hope this feedback helps.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. We'll keep this in mind for future adjustments.

This has been an issue when Shortbow had a 1200 range. Back then, after shooting an arrow, any stealth causes revealed just because the arrow is still bouncing off of targets.

The problem here is the Revealed mechanic. It's such a badly implemented mechanic.

EDIT: 1200 range not 1500

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

The only problem I had is the casting time on applying DE Mark, and Kneel (minor issue). But now, it's the whole thing.

It's like asking an engineer to change the oil and ended up taking the whole car apart.

[AfroMetal.5394]

@"Rengaru.4730" said:It's actually worse, the trait is pretty much broken at this point in time.In

video you can clearly see the guy not attacking for several seconds but he still gets instantly revealed.

About it, I tested it some more later and saw that there is fairly high possibility (lol) that new DJ will happen properly if you key spammed it at the end of the dodge, if you wait even for a moment (split second), then even if you still have some time left in stealth, then there is a high chance that skill will bug. Soooo right now it's a game of chance with high stakes - will it land and hit hard or screw me, leaving me dpsless and out of my dodge while still granting "revealed" status. Reminds me of someone recently proposing new elite spec for thief called gambler... So my friend, you have it, the future is now.

[DeceiverX.8361]

This interaction is really nothing new. Just a bit more obvious than with other kits because the interaction is much more common and much less intentional.

It's the same with Dancing Dagger into CnD midair and ranger longbow 3 with its AA when under the effects of quickness.Reveal-in-flight is also how you can get Revealed Training + Backstab by using a projectile skill + Steal/ISignet +Backstab during flight.

It's also utilized for a lot of combos with projectiles for a number of professions.

[Maugetarr.6823]

@Robert Gee.9246 said:

@TheMaskedGamer.5708 said:I have found and issue while attempting to do a combo with the new Deadeye. I really enjoy the new Silent Scope trait that allows you to go to stealth after a dodge roll. Makes a great opportunity to dish out your stealth attacks immediately after. However, I've found an issue when attempting to do that with the rifle.

The issue comes with the nature of projectiles taking their time to hit the target. In the combo, I of course would Mark the target, use Iniciative skills to charge Malice, go to stealth specifically the Slient Scope dodge roll to stealth, then attempt to use the new Stealth Attack, Death's Judgement. However, if doing this at maximum range(kneeling or otherwise), the autoattacks takes about a second to hit the enemy target. Within that second I roll in order to stealth and use the stealth skill, but by the time I go to stealth, the autoattack projectile finally hits the target. The issue is that once that projectile hits, it reveals me before I could use the Stealth Skill. It cancels out my stealth.

Now I've heard that persisting attacks (as an example on Longbow Ranger, use the AoE skill 5, and then try to use Skill 3 to stealth, but gets revealed immediately since targets are getting hit.) or attacks that take its time to reach the enemy cause this problem. There should be a fix to eliminate this issue. Like any attack or skill persistent or not that comes out before stealth should not reveal you.

Hope this feedback helps.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. We'll keep this in mind for future adjustments.

Can I make few suggestions for future adjustments?

Move the new Snipers Cover to the #4 of standing Rifle.

Remove double tap.

Put a leap skill in the #3 standing rifle.(Edit for leap skill suggestion: 'Blinding leap: Leap 300 units, blinding nearby (radius 240) foes as you start the leap.' Functions similar to Engineer's rocket boots, but without the condition removal or damage.)

Put 3RB in the #4 kneeling rifle.

Put Death's Retreat in the #3 kneeling rifle, maybe make it ground targeted, so the thief can move while kneeling at the expense of initiative.

Take the stealth on dodge out of Silent Scope and have it make kneeling attacks pierce with the +20% crit chance. Call it something like AP Rounds.

[Cameryn.5310]

@Robert Gee.9246 said:Thanks for the detailed feedback. We'll keep this in mind for future adjustments.

Robert, you specifically responded to me the other day about P/P deadeyes in PVE. You said it would be better now, in your opinion. Can you please explain that to me? There is nothing I have that uses Malice except the two substandard cantrips granting me a little stealth, and the only benefit is a minor torment debuff; why would I care about that instead of another round of Unload?

I would very much appreciate your input on this, because if I'm missing something I'd love to know.

[Jinks.2057]

@Robert Gee.9246 said:

@"TheMaskedGamer.5708" said:I have found and issue while attempting to do a combo with the new Deadeye. I really enjoy the new Silent Scope trait that allows you to go to stealth after a dodge roll. Makes a great opportunity to dish out your stealth attacks immediately after. However, I've found an issue when attempting to do that with the rifle.

The issue comes with the nature of projectiles taking their time to hit the target. In the combo, I of course would Mark the target, use Iniciative skills to charge Malice, go to stealth specifically the Slient Scope dodge roll to stealth, then attempt to use the new Stealth Attack, Death's Judgement. However, if doing this at maximum range(kneeling or otherwise), the autoattacks takes about a second to hit the enemy target. Within that second I roll in order to stealth and use the stealth skill, but by the time I go to stealth, the autoattack projectile finally hits the target. The issue is that once that projectile hits, it reveals me before I could use the Stealth Skill. It cancels out my stealth.

Now I've heard that persisting attacks (as an example on Longbow Ranger, use the AoE skill 5, and then try to use Skill 3 to stealth, but gets revealed immediately since targets are getting hit.) or attacks that take its time to reach the enemy cause this problem. There should be a fix to eliminate this issue. Like any attack or skill persistent or not that comes out before stealth should not reveal you.

Hope this feedback helps.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. We'll keep this in mind for future adjustments.

WOW

Nothing says I don't care more than that.

At least the standard. "Hey thanks for the feedback we're looking into this now and will keep you updated" is better than that.....wow

[Jinks.2057]

@"Avador.8934" said:I love these changes. Been having a blast with rifle in PvP since the patch.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/profile/discussions/7712/Avador.8934

You play ele not thief