How long should you take to clear daily fractals?

[Raizel.8175]

I'm mostly doing fractals with some friends. We almost always need 2 random people, but we manage t4s and recs in approx. 45-60 minutes. We'd kinda like to try out cms, but that ain't working well, since we aren't using some meta-setup. We actually have a dps/support-hybrid-chrono, a scourge and me as soulbeast, so for most people, that's already too much cdps. Diversity in fractals is certainly a problem, even more so than in raids.

[Vinceman.4572]

@"tim.4596" said:And for this very reason, I believe you should be able to play what ever class, you want to play in it.

And you are able to without having time issues. (reason read below)

In my post above, I categorised the LFG into 5 different level and demonstrated (maybe poorly) how level 1 to 3 clear time are "Good Enough" and how level 4-5 clear times are "Quite slow". This is due in my opinion that removing 1 or 2 core class from a comp (either warrior, chrono or druid) affect your clearing time too much.

And that's nonsense. Clearing time in pugs mostly depends on experience compared with skill level. Take 5 scourges or as for me 4 scourges 1 druid that know the levels by heart. Their clearing time won't be very much slower than the usual meta pug. I bet it won't be longer than additional 5 minutes per fractal. Over the past years I ran T4 fracs with pugs without a chrono, without a druid and without weavers - yesterday without a warrior. Groups are only struggling when players are not familiar with tactics/encounters. I even had smooth CM runs with condi setups because those players knew what they were doing. Best example is Sublimatio, I'd rather pick her on condi scourge for 100 CM than the 20 kp weaver pulling 6k average dps. But since you never know whom to get you ask for the best you can possibly get.Heck I had a "quasi static" for both CMs + T4s over a month consisting of 2-3 condi players often without a chrono. And we were able to achieve "Leave No Heros Behind" a couple of times although we didn't really try it after already having it.

Then my main reflection was that, if I want to play certain class (Support: Firebrand, Tempest, Herald or DPS: Thief, Revenant) at a PvE level, which I enjoy, the game content is simply missing. Hence my suggestion that ALL support class should be viable in fractals and that there should be more challenging 5man content.

• By 'viable', I mean that playing any NON-CORE CLASS in a 5man team comp, shouldn't send you back to level 4-5. When looking at the current playable classes, support classes other than druid seems to be lacking with most, hence my accentuation on Druid and my suggestion to make perfectly good support classes who are just sitting there 'viable'.
• By 'challenging', I mean that a 5man team comp in order to progress through challenging content should have a certain amount of buff or synergy available from the game–alacrity, quickness, 25 might, fury etc...

Your "viable" is targeting the top level in fractal play which is 100 and 99 CM only. In the usual T4s everything is viable and a lot is "good" to clear T4s in an acceptable time frame (below 40 minutes). It's way more often the player behind the keyboard that is not capable to execute levels properly. And that also counts for a lot of meta players. I advise you to set up 50 meta groups for Thaumanova only and you'll see that a lot will have problems at Subject 6 for example. The reason this won't happen to 50 CMs + Thaumanova groups is that they are far ahead in terms of skill & experience.

[AliamRationem.5172]

It doesn't matter all that much what class you play as long as you have some idea of the basic mechanics, can stay on your feet reasonably well, deal decent damage and CC when required. T4 aren't so difficult that you must be a top notch player in a perfect group comp to get through them.

Just make your intentions clear regarding what sort of players you want in your group when you list in LFG and you shouldn't have any problems. I prefer to play my Mirage if I fractal at all and I don't particularly want to argue with members of my group about whether or not I'd be more useful playing chrono. So when I list I usually give some indication that I'd rather take a little longer than listen to someone else's ideas on how everyone else is underperforming the entire run (e.g. "Chill run", etc.).

[tim.4596]

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:It doesn't matter all that much what class you play as long as you have some idea of the basic mechanics, can stay on your feet reasonably well, deal decent damage and CC when required. T4 aren't so difficult that you must be a top notch player in a perfect group comp to get through them.

Well true, but I was referring to a rather advanced fractal community, who do fractals on a daily basis haha, so CC shouldn't be an issue in fact I believe non Meta group often CC more than Meta group, simply because Meta group are too focused on doing their 'rotation' and doing damage to care to CC haha. So it's generally all left to the chrono to do everything. Superior Sigil of Paralyzation on Chrono for fractal is not a plus it's mandatory :D.

Just make your intentions clear regarding what sort of players you want in your group when you list in LFG and you shouldn't have any problems. I prefer to play my Mirage if I fractal at all and I don't particularly want to argue with members of my group about whether or not I'd be more useful playing chrono. So when I list I usually give some indication that I'd rather take a little longer than listen to someone else's ideas on how everyone else is underperforming the entire run (e.g. "Chill run", etc.).

I like your spirit, but I wouldn't have the patience to do such runs :).

[tim.4596]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"tim.4596" said:And for this very reason, I believe you should be able to play what ever class, you want to play in it.

And you are able to without having time issues. (reason read below)

I can't really come to agree with this and will explain below.

In my post above, I categorised the LFG into 5 different level and demonstrated (maybe poorly) how level 1 to 3 clear time are "Good Enough" and how level 4-5 clear times are "Quite slow". This is due

in my opinion

that removing 1 or 2 core class from a comp (either warrior, chrono or druid) affect your clearing time too much.

And that's nonsense. Clearing time in pugs mostly depends on experience compared with skill level. Take 5 scourges or as for me 4 scourges 1 druid that know the levels by heart. Their clearing time won't be very much slower than the usual meta pug. I bet it won't be longer than additional 5 minutes per fractal. Over the past years I ran T4 fracs with pugs without a chrono, without a druid and without weavers - yesterday without a warrior. Groups are only struggling when players are not familiar with tactics/encounters. I even had smooth CM runs with condi setups because those players knew what they were doing. Best example is Sublimatio, I'd rather pick her on condi scourge for 100 CM than the 20 kp weaver pulling 6k average dps. But since you never know whom to get you ask for the best you can possibly get.Heck I had a "quasi static" for both CMs + T4s over a month consisting of 2-3 condi players often without a chrono. And we were able to achieve "Leave No Heros Behind" a couple of times although we didn't really try it after already having it.

Well, 4 scourges and 1 druid, would be fine in my opinion, because of how they synergise with one another, and possibly running a support firebrand instead of a druid might even be better. But this might be the only scenario allowing such things. Support/boon Firebrand can provide up to 11 boons on his own and 4 different conditions, so since you'd be lacking quickness from removing the chrono, it would be better than the druid; 100 precision and 5+10% damage modifier.

But you would have to test this against:-Chrono, Warrior, Druid and 2x Scourge-Chrono, Warrior, 3 Scourge

However this 4 scourges comp because of epi bounce synergise well, but I don't think you could say the same of let's say 4 random condition class without quickness and alacrity, it would just be awful to play. And warrior add (270 power, 170 condition dmg, 170 ferocity, 170 precision), so I can't really imagine a group going through main boss of the fractals without those. And as GW2 has demonstrated, higher damage makes everything easier, because it allows you to shorten boss fights (less mechanics to dodge) and in some cases even skip boss mechanics altogether.For instance on the 2nd boss of 99CM if you have two weaver in your group and pre-stack 25 Might, you are able to skip the add spawn entirely. So.... no need to do dodge, no chance to spawn add, generally he won't even have time to spawn poison and you have already divided your chance of wiping by 50%.

Your "viable" is targeting the top level in fractal play which is 100 and 99 CM only. In the usual T4s everything is viable and a lot is "good" to clear T4s in an acceptable time frame (below 40 minutes). It's way more often the player behind the keyboard that is not capable to execute levels properly. And that also counts for a lot of meta players. I advise you to set up 50 meta groups for Thaumanova only and you'll see that a lot will have problems at Subject 6 for example. The reason this won't happen to 50 CMs + Thaumanova groups is that they are far ahead in terms of skill & experience.

For Thaumanova, let's take the example of Subject 6 you actually have 3 different ways to kill the boss.-The first way, dps the boss slowly, and kill the adds as they come towards the boss.-The second way is to wait for the first block and then burst him down to 0.-The third way is to pre-stack 25 Might (you need a really good group for this and your Chrono + Druid should be DPS), you instantly CC the boss and Burst him down during the CC phase.

I've done all three way, but mostly do the 2nd way. I can't recall running the third one with a full pug group or most of the time if we tried it failed.

[Vinceman.4572]

@"tim.4596" said:Well, 4 scourges and 1 druid, would be fine in my opinion, because of how they synergise with one another, and possibly running a support firebrand instead of a druid might even be better. But this might be the only scenario allowing such things. Support/boon Firebrand can provide up to 11 boons on his own and 4 different conditions, so since you'd be lacking quickness from removing the chrono, it would be better than the druid; 100 precision and 5+10% damage modifier.

But you would have to test this against:-Chrono, Warrior, Druid and 2x Scourge-Chrono, Warrior, 3 Scourge

However this 4 scourges comp because of epi bounce synergise well, but I don't think you could say the same of let's say 4 random condition class without quickness and alacrity, it would just be awful to play. And warrior add (270 power, 170 condition dmg, 170 ferocity, 170 precision), so I can't really imagine a group going through main boss of the fractals without those. And as GW2 has demonstrated, higher damage makes everything easier, because it allows you to shorten boss fights (less mechanics to dodge) and in some cases even skip boss mechanics altogether.For instance on the 2nd boss of 99CM if you have two weaver in your group and pre-stack 25 Might, you are able to skip the add spawn entirely. So.... no need to do dodge, no chance to spawn add, generally he won't even have time to spawn poison and you have already divided your chance of wiping by 50%.

And again you're making the wrong assumption and bring 99 CM into the discussion although we were talking about clearing T4s. CMs are way above average. They are less played than a lot of raid bosses and these are the most challenging content in the game. In T4s it doesn't matter if you have meta, the scourge comp or some unbalanced power & condi group. General T4 fractals can be done with a lot of classes and you don't even lose that many minutes if you have the players executing their stuff properly. They need to know how to lead the elemental/dredge in underground below the barrels, dodging the hammer attack from Archdiviner and stack on him, dodging tentacles in Solid Ocean, throw shards back when loaded, use the special action key at Amala and don't stand in her aoes. If people can do that you don't struggle and you don't have any risk at wiping. The important word here is: "if" and that will vary a lot, of course.

For Thaumanova, let's take the example of Subject 6 you actually have 3 different ways to kill the boss.-The first way, dps the boss slowly, and kill the adds as they come towards the boss.-The second way is to wait for the first block and then burst him down to 0.-The third way is to pre-stack 25 Might (you need a really good group for this and your Chrono + Druid should be DPS), you instantly CC the boss and Burst him down during the CC phase.

I've done all three way, but mostly do the 2nd way. I can't recall running the third one with a full pug group or most of the time if we tried it failed.

What has that to do with my statement? Who cares about the different ways? Btw. the 2nd way is the most often used method in CM and usual T4 groups but some can do the third way. And no, you don't need a dps druid. You need rng luck that is to say you don't get his shield as first attack so you can insta cc him. Also that's the only difference between the 2nd and 3rd way. The waiting strategy only is the safe strategy to prevent an unlucky block, nothing else.

But what I was saying is that there is a difference between usual T4 players and players that are running CMs + T4s because these are two completely different groups otherwise we would only see CM + T4 LFGs and not both. Obviously CM players are more experienced and skilled than most of the people running T4s only.And yeah, if you are skilled enough you will prefer the CM groups. You know they will most likely do the T4s in a faster way than the one without CMs (exceptions prove the rule).

[ErgoProxy.9074]

Necro no where to be found, lol nice class diversity. Fucking trash

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

How long should it take to clear daily fractals?

• Considering you are talking about non CM T4s, 25 minutes is a good run and 45 minutes is a slow run. Anything over 45 minutes is too long.
• Considering you are also talking about recs, 15 minutes is fast, 20 is slow. Anything approaching 25+ minutes is too slow.
• Considering you are talking about 99/100 CMs: If a strong group with one shots, 30 to 40 minutes. With a good group that has a /gg or two, 40+. Anything approaching an hour is too long.

A group of experienced veteran players who know mechanics, that may have to /gg once during a full run of Recs, T4s and CMs, should complete them all in about an 1:15. If one of the CMs is also a T4 daily, it can reduce that time to a little under an hour.

At least, this is usually how it is for me.

[Henry.5713]

The balance issue part was an interesting read. Looking at the META group:Weavers - highest burst, allow you to skip mechanics, to turn almost all bosses into a complete jokeSpellbreakers - high personal damage and musthave offensive buffs for your weaversChrono - most powerful support and utility and a fractal monster with skips, etc.Druid - great boons, good healing, good offensive buffs

Given this list, seems a little little odd that you mainly focus on Druid nerfs. They are the most replaceable piece of the META strategy. I'd certainly pick the Druid over the Chronomacer or the Weavers and simply play a Renegade instead if I had to replace one class out of the five. You talked about other viable DPS choices. The difference in performance between said choices and the top damage dealer is dwarfing the difference between a Druid and the secondary support choices. Not even going to talk about how nobody in their right mind would ever replace the Chronomancer.

[tim.4596]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"tim.4596" said:Well, 4 scourges and 1 druid, would be fine in my opinion, because of how they synergise with one another, and possibly running a support firebrand instead of a druid might even be better. But this might be the only scenario allowing such things. Support/boon Firebrand can provide up to 11 boons on his own and 4 different conditions, so since you'd be lacking quickness from removing the chrono, it would be better than the druid; 100 precision and 5+10% damage modifier.

But you would have to test this against:-Chrono, Warrior, Druid and 2x Scourge-Chrono, Warrior, 3 Scourge

However this 4 scourges comp because of epi bounce synergise well, but I don't think you could say the same of let's say 4 random condition class without quickness and alacrity, it would just be awful to play. And warrior add (270 power, 170 condition dmg, 170 ferocity, 170 precision), so I can't really imagine a group going through main boss of the fractals without those. And as GW2 has demonstrated, higher damage makes everything easier, because it allows you to shorten boss fights (less mechanics to dodge) and in some cases even skip boss mechanics altogether.For instance on the 2nd boss of 99CM if you have two weaver in your group and pre-stack 25 Might, you are able to skip the add spawn entirely. So.... no need to do dodge, no chance to spawn add, generally he won't even have time to spawn poison and you have already divided your chance of wiping by 50%.

And again you're making the wrong assumption and bring 99 CM into the discussion although we were talking about clearing T4s. CMs are way above average. They are less played than a lot of raid bosses and these are the most challenging content in the game. In T4s it doesn't matter if you have meta, the scourge comp or some unbalanced power & condi group. General T4 fractals can be done with a lot of classes and you don't even lose that many minutes if you have the players executing their stuff properly. They need to know how to lead the elemental/dredge in underground below the barrels, dodging the hammer attack from Archdiviner and stack on him, dodging tentacles in Solid Ocean, throw shards back when loaded, use the special action key at Amala and don't stand in her aoes. If people can do that you don't struggle and you don't have any risk at wiping. The important word here is: "if" and that will vary a lot, of course.

Well, when I created the post, I tried to make it for everyone and include all possible dailies which you may do in Fractals if you wish to do so. However, my point was that: If you remove Druid or Warrior from the comp, you would fall into a level 4 or 5 clearing group and potentially even worse if you choose to remove Chronomancer. That if fine, I guess, if you are doing T4 only. If the players are experienced as you say, you should be able to clear your daily T4 Fractal below 1h. However, you will run into serious trouble if you are doing CM's and the people who may join such group, may not be experienced players, which would undeniably reduce your fractal time. So my point was that, while I'm sure that everyone running T4 fractals have some basic knowledge of how team comps works. That they shouldn't run more than 1 healer/support class, and have a minimum of 2 dps, with another boon/support class, there are ATM NOT MANY alternatives to what you can play in Fractals.

@"ErgoProxy.9074" said:Necro no where to be found, lol nice class diversity. kitten trash

I've edited my original post and added Necromancer to the section "Recurring and Forgotten class" , I agree that beside Condi Scourge you can't really play Necromancer in Fractals, while other class gives you the possibility to play a power class, with the exception of Revenant, but arguably Healing herald should be a possibility, while Healing/Support Scourge is not really. Saying that, I did W4 the other day with a support Scourge only (I'm not too sure how it came to this). But we realised on Deimos, that we had been running without a druid or any other healer. We couldn't kill it boss as we had mechanics and might problems, but I'm confident that we could have. However, it's interesting to note that, he had no problem at all, with both "black kitting" and supporting the group middle with heals. :D

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:How long should it take to clear daily fractals?

• Considering you are talking about non CM T4s, 25 minutes is a good run and 45 minutes is a slow run. Anything over 45 minutes is too long.
• Considering you are also talking about recs, 15 minutes is fast, 20 is slow. Anything approaching 25+ minutes is too slow.
• Considering you are talking about 99/100 CMs: If a strong group with one shots, 30 to 40 minutes. With a good group that has a /gg or two, 40+. Anything approaching an hour is too long.

A group of experienced veteran players who know mechanics, that may have to /gg once during a full run of Recs, T4s and CMs, should complete them all in about an 1:15. If one of the CMs is also a T4 daily, it can reduce that time to a little under an hour.

At least, this is usually how it is for me.

I'd say that's pretty much the same for me, when I join a LFG group. And I think it shouldn't take more than 1h-1h30 to clear everything including recs.

[zaw.6741]

t4: 15-30 minutes? really? with solid, molten and cliffside and some rubbish instabilities you can reliably do them under 30 minutes?

[Feanor.2358]

@zaw.6741 said:t4: 15-30 minutes? really? with solid, molten and cliffside and some rubbish instabilities you can reliably do them under 30 minutes?

Yup.

[Kam.4092]

I do whatever groups, and still clear in like 25-40 minutes. My boyfriend and I rarely get Mesmers and Druids. We always pug, and are always fine. I run support Firebrand, and use this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNApeWnsADFBjtDBGCBEEhlBCDLDUCuB7L0IaG1KAMtKAA-jxxGQBk7UAAgnAwSV+lm9Hup+AoqEMoq/EA4A49u393D8+7v/+7v31v/+7v/+7v/+7vHA-e

A lot seem to not know about how support Firebrand shares Signets for Damage and support. You can give 432 Condition Damage, 216 Power, 216 Healing Power, and -10% damage taken.

Support Firebrand is a weaker Mesmer and Druid combined. It excels at massive healing, blocks, Stability, Might, and Quickness, while doing other support Boons. All of its utilities are usable, and it's very powerful in Fractals. It hard carries through so many fights with blocks, and absurd healing. It's a support build that is getting overlooked at the moment.

I don't really understand the reasoning behind your long post. I group with some really confusing builds. I saw a Power Firebrand once. We still cleared dailies in under 40 minutes. My boyfriend plays Power Reaper. When we pug we see Reapers too. Are you trying to be informative, saying how certain classes are useless, or trying to ask for buffs for certain Professions and Elites?

I think the "Meta" is cool and all, but it's not mandatory for casual content like Fractals.

[Vinceman.4572]

@zaw.6741 said:t4: 15-30 minutes? really? with solid, molten and cliffside and some rubbish instabilities you can reliably do them under 30 minutes?

These numbers (and we are talking about 25-30 minutes) are only realistic if you have every player on point and the chrono is using every possible portal skip. Almost only in meta performing groups that are also running CMs before.Otherwise it's not common and just as well exaggerated as calling out all addicted raiders/fractal players being toxic elitists. Btw. 15 minutes for 3 fractals won't work in pugs and I also haven't seen any static record guild achieving that goal coherently.There are some rly short fracs, for example Aetherblade if the chrono knows the skip, Thaumanova is also very fast although a lot of ppl think it's one of the longer ones. At start the chrono can do the heat room before ooze and another player can trigger the door room on the right. After ooze one player just pushes the button there (you let those asuras die while you fight the ooze) and the others head on to south for the last button. Kill the anomaly and gg. Even in pugs this fractal can be done within about 5 minutes. The length of Cliffside heavily depends on the chrono and sometimes also on Xera portals.

But don't worry on average people need 30 minutes for T4s they are always running in CM groups with 100kp. You still have a wipe from time to time, nothing big but if you play it on a daily routine mistakes are made.

[Brynioch.1873]

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@tim.4596 said:Although there are no major problem with Fractal of the Mists beside Druid being overly used and Thief + Renegade being completely forgotten....

• Druid:
  I think druid should give less boons, which could potentially allow other support/healer class to bring those boons instead and allow the chrono to play a more offensive build. Which might make up for the 100 precision and 5+10% damage modifier of the druid.I find it rather curious that you hit druid quite a few times, yet seem to ignore the spec that's a much worse offender to balance: chrono.

It happens for quite a while now. Most people bash druids for their buffs while chronomancer is the real offender and enabler for those compositions. Remove the chronomancer and you have trade-offs. Compositions will never change unless druid is completely dead or chronomancer nerfed. I would prefer the second option.If druid is dead you will just see a 4th DPS class with chronomancer as the only supporter. It is already happening.

[Neutra.6857]

Odd, I run with a group that plays condi most of the time. we have one druid, one chrono, sometimes though not always a warrior, and at least 1 necro. Despite typically having a more condi focused group we tend to finish t4s and recs in about 1 hour (less if they are the shorter fractals).

[tim.4596]

@zaw.6741 said:t4: 15-30 minutes? really? with solid, molten and cliffside and some rubbish instabilities you can reliably do them under 30 minutes?

Yes, as multiple people indicated, you can easily clear below 30min with portal skip from Chrono and GG. Although 15min is much harder and you will most likely only be able to achieve that with a very experienced static group, or be extremely lucky with daily Fractals and not have anything too time consuming.

@"Kam.4092" said:I do whatever groups, and still clear in like 25-40 minutes. My boyfriend and I rarely get Mesmers and Druids. We always pug, and are always fine. I run support Firebrand, and use this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNApeWnsADFBjtDBGCBEEhlBCDLDUCuB7L0IaG1KAMtKAA-jxxGQBk7UAAgnAwSV+lm9Hup+AoqEMoq/EA4A49u393D8+7v/+7v31v/+7v/+7v/+7vHA-e

A lot seem to not know about how support Firebrand shares Signets for Damage and support. You can give 432 Condition Damage, 216 Power, 216 Healing Power, and -10% damage taken.

I did not know that you could share signet, however only on activation, and it requires you to take the Radiance specialisation instead of Valor or Virtues. But arguably only Honor and Firebrand are important to that spec and the third specialisations is the swappable one anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter much.

Nonetheless, thanks a lot for pointing this out, I've added it to my main post.

I'm quite interested though, how much damage can you output with firebrand, while running Harrier gear and what comp do you generally run if you do not have a Chrono and a Druid ? 4 DPS + Firebrand ? Also, why run full Harrier ? Do you run raid too with this build ?

Support Firebrand is a weaker Mesmer and Druid combined. It excels at massive healing, blocks, Stability, Might, and Quickness, while doing other support Boons. All of its utilities are usable, and it's very powerful in Fractals. It hard carries through so many fights with blocks, and absurd healing. It's a support build that is getting overlooked at the moment.

I'm very aware of the hard carry with blocks though, in fact I tend to think that Firebrand is a better pick than Druid with average group, as you consecutively reduce your chance of wiping by at least 50%. However I generally don't do so, as most CM's + T4 Fractals groups require a Druid, and although Firebrand is a 'somewhat descent' pick for T4 FotM it is pretty bad in CM's–you can still run them, but Druid is just so much better for long fights.

I don't really understand the reasoning behind your long post. I group with some really confusing builds. I saw a Power Firebrand once. We still cleared dailies in under 40 minutes. My boyfriend plays Power Reaper. When we pug we see Reapers too. Are you trying to be informative, saying how certain classes are useless, or trying to ask for buffs for certain Professions and Elites?

I'm trying to be both. Informative, as in, at the moment, support classes other than druid, despite your post are still 'not playable'. Some power class still have a really low damage output compared to other (power reaper, staff thief, not even talking about power herald/revenant). And therefore urge the developers to look into it.

I think the "Meta" is cool and all, but it's not mandatory for casual content like Fractals.

I think that's the issue haha, it can be both casual and non-casual and depending on how you like to go through that content you may not be able to play some class :(

[Eramonster.2718]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@zaw.6741 said:t4: 15-30 minutes? really? with solid, molten and cliffside and some rubbish instabilities you can reliably do them under 30 minutes?

Yup.

Second this. If everyone in the group is familiar and performs everything correctly (unwritten standard protocol) :lol: . But with pugs, it will always be a gamble. Any competative class will be able to achieve or close to the time frame be it power/condi.Edit: for T4s. I have yet to clear below 45mins when there's CM100 but within an hour.

Agree with Henry about the presence of a chrono in group. Stopped playing chrono to move away from the class, but the feeling to have one never left me. (I'm fine replacing a druid with fb or rev, but a feeling akin to disappointment without a proper chrono).

[DutchRiders.2871]

Topic starter you are wrong, some of us dont use druids anymore in cms+t4s. Also the reason alot of players list for meta comps is just to attract highly skilled players. The clearing times dont very alot unless you have no chrono. If deroir joins on holo he does crazy dmg for example.

[tim.4596]

@DutchRiders.2871 said:Topic starter you are wrong, some of us dont use druids anymore in cms+t4s. Also the reason alot of players list for meta comps is just to attract highly skilled players. The clearing times dont very alot unless you have no chrono. If deroir joins on holo he does crazy dmg for example.

Thank you for highlighting this, I did consider it, but however did not write it down, as I wasn't sure whether or not it would be too confusing. Maybe I should add it, as an additional option. It is however in the link to the google spreadsheet (see below).

@"tim.4596" said:

T4 clearing times & the 5 different group levels

I will only talk about Tier 4 fractal group and how I think there are different group level and the difference between them. Most players who do fractals daily are doing T4 fractals, and those who aren't there yet, will reach it fairly quickly, as it is now relatively fast to acquire Ascended Gear and infuse it with +9 infusion in order to get 150AR to do all different fractals level.

In my opinion there are 5 different fractal group which you can find while doing daily CM's / T4 / Recs (link to Google spreadsheet here)

I'm assuming that you would run at least 2 Weaver to have a 'consistent' amount of might throughout the fight, hence why, I did not add it to the other categories. However, you could swap the third DPS for whatever you want. Maybe perma 25 might, would work with only 1 Weaver but I'm not entirely sure. Have you tried it ?

[AliamRationem.5172]

@zaw.6741 said:t4: 15-30 minutes? really? with solid, molten and cliffside and some rubbish instabilities you can reliably do them under 30 minutes?

I am not a fractal exPert, having never done challenge modes or even completed fractal 100 yet. But yesterday I joined lfg with a friend, picked up some randoms and we finished our dailies in 38 minutes (t4).

I'm sure organized groups can reliably do it much quicker than that.

[DutchRiders.2871]

@tim.4596 said:

@DutchRiders.2871 said:Topic starter you are wrong, some of us dont use druids anymore in cms+t4s. Also the reason alot of players list for meta comps is just to attract highly skilled players. The clearing times dont very alot unless you have no chrono. If deroir joins on holo he does crazy dmg for example.

Thank you for highlighting this, I did consider it, but however did not write it down, as I wasn't sure whether or not it would be too confusing. Maybe I should add it, as an additional option. It is however in the link to the google spreadsheet (see below).

@tim.4596 said:

T4 clearing times & the 5 different group levels

I will only talk about Tier 4 fractal group and how I think there are different group level and the difference between them. Most players who do fractals daily are doing T4 fractals, and those who aren't there yet, will reach it fairly quickly, as it is now relatively fast to acquire Ascended Gear and infuse it with +9 infusion in order to get 150AR to do all different fractals level.

In my opinion there are 5 different fractal group which you can find while doing daily CM's / T4 / Recs (link to Google spreadsheet

here

)

I'm assuming that you would run at least 2 Weaver to have a 'consistent' amount of might throughout the fight, hence why, I did not add it to the other categories. However, you could swap the third DPS for whatever you want. Maybe perma 25 might, would work with only 1 Weaver but I'm not entirely sure. Have you tried it ?

2 weavers + 1 dh is actually pretty nice to run. Never did it with less than 2 weavers though.

[Aktium.9506]

remove alacrity and quickness as boons

increase fractal mobs and bosses health by 800-1 000% so that condi can do its thing

[Saint Sated.2698]

@steki.1478 said:Most of people will always want to fastest possible clear and they'll take whatever classes can achieve that.

I profoundly disagree. Most players will take whatever class they enjoy the most, and most players are not speed clearers.

[tim.4596]

@Saint Sated.2698 said:

@steki.1478 said:Most of people will always want to fastest possible clear and they'll take whatever classes can achieve that.

I profoundly disagree. Most players will take whatever class they enjoy the most, and most players are not speed clearers.

No I think he's right, each mob should have the potential to wipe your entire team :) ! It's fractals of the mist after all :D