Content Priorities

[TexZero.7910]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:What some are running into is that Path of Fire has no access to AMA gemstones, even though Legendaries can be made with PoF with the gift of desert mastery. Some people have PoFcwithout having HoT, which is fine.PoF needs a farm like HoT as well for AG. Gem stones should be added and perhaps another type of unique reward, AMA stones need to be there to craft the Legendaries.

I think what you're missing out on as is a large portion of people who think AG are worthy items, is that they are craftable meaning you don't actually need PoF to obtain them.

Because they are... look at the people doing the metas...

Edit: Just because you don’t find them worthy doesn’t mean they aren’t.

Edit 2: Give em 2 amalgamated gemstones, done.They will cease having any value as you keep adding more. This is basic economics.

[Tyson.5160]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:What some are running into is that Path of Fire has no access to AMA gemstones, even though Legendaries can be made with PoF with the gift of desert mastery. Some people have PoFcwithout having HoT, which is fine.PoF needs a farm like HoT as well for AG. Gem stones should be added and perhaps another type of unique reward, AMA stones need to be there to craft the Legendaries.

I think what you're missing out on as is a large portion of people who think AG are worthy items, is that they are craftable meaning you don't actually need PoF to obtain them.

Because they are... look at the people doing the metas...

Edit: Just because you don’t find them worthy doesn’t mean they aren’t.

Edit 2: Give em 2 amalgamated gemstones, done.They will cease having any value as you keep adding more. This is basic economics.

Ama gem stones or mystic coins, or a combination of the two for serpents ire. Possibly adding a mystic coin to each PoF Meta as a daily like HoT does for Gemstones.

Edit: I don’t see them making unique rewards now after PoFs development.

[TexZero.7910]

@Tyson.5160 said:Ama gem stones or mystic coins, or a combination of the two for serpents ire. Possibly adding a mystic coin to each PoF Meta as a daily like HoT does for Gemstones.

Edit: I don’t see them making unique rewards now after PoFs development.

By doing so you've just devalued not only coins and gemstones but also legendaries. If that's your aim congrats, but it's poor design.

I don't disagree that they are less likely to fix rewards namely adding unique stuff post release, but it showcases how poor both expansions have been when it comes to reward design as they've both fallen into the pratfall of both needing to have their rewards reworked to incentivize gameplay.

[Tyson.5160]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:Ama gem stones or mystic coins, or a combination of the two for serpents ire. Possibly adding a mystic coin to each PoF Meta as a daily like HoT does for Gemstones.

Edit: I don’t see them making unique rewards now after PoFs development.

By doing so you've just devalued not only coins and gemstones but also legendaries. If that's your aim congrats, but it's poor design.

I don't disagree that they are less likely to fix rewards namely adding unique stuff post release, but it showcases how poor both expansions have been when it comes to reward design as they've both fallen into the pratfall of both needing to have their rewards reworked to incentivize gameplay.

Then what is your design oh great one, you seem to have all the answers.

[Sarrs.4831]

Think of how awesome a "cave of wonders" style dungeon hidden in the Crystal Desert somewhere with its own armor/weapon set would have been. Huge missed opportunity for PoF (just like not getting land spears.)

We do have one, it's the dwarf city.

Actual merits of adding a new dungeon aside... The whole issue is that you've asked for 34 skins when you would, for this feature, get 5. Dungeons would be fantastic but we're not going to see them because hey you need to make an armor set per weight for each dungeon and 16 weapon skins when an expansion probably has 4 armor sets per weight and 4 weapon sets.

Honestly, easy dungeons are completely opposite to where GW2 shines. Raids and high-end fractals make sense because it lets ANet introduce mechanics that punish the group for an individual's performance. Open world is, oftentimes, the draw of the game, especially as an MMO. What does a relatively easy dungeon bring that an open world event chain doesn't, and vice versa?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Tyson.5160 said:Then what is your designCritiquing a proposal doesn't require having a counter proposal. Accept the feedback and modify the proposal or reject the feedback (and hope that ANet will, too).

[TexZero.7910]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:Ama gem stones or mystic coins, or a combination of the two for serpents ire. Possibly adding a mystic coin to each PoF Meta as a daily like HoT does for Gemstones.

Edit: I don’t see them making unique rewards now after PoFs development.

By doing so you've just devalued not only coins and gemstones but also legendaries. If that's your aim congrats, but it's poor design.

I don't disagree that they are less likely to fix rewards namely adding unique stuff post release, but it showcases how poor both expansions have been when it comes to reward design as they've both fallen into the pratfall of both needing to have their rewards reworked to incentivize gameplay.

Then what is your design oh great one, you seem to have all the answers.

I've already stated what i'd like to see done. It's a more feasible long term solution, more unique rewards. That being said i know that the overall likelyhood of that happening isn't great. However, doesn't change what i feel about the short sighted way of adjusting them of slapdashing AG's and MC's on everything and calling it fixed.

[Tyson.5160]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:Ama gem stones or mystic coins, or a combination of the two for serpents ire. Possibly adding a mystic coin to each PoF Meta as a daily like HoT does for Gemstones.

Edit: I don’t see them making unique rewards now after PoFs development.

By doing so you've just devalued not only coins and gemstones but also legendaries. If that's your aim congrats, but it's poor design.

I don't disagree that they are less likely to fix rewards namely adding unique stuff post release, but it showcases how poor both expansions have been when it comes to reward design as they've both fallen into the pratfall of both needing to have their rewards reworked to incentivize gameplay.

Then what is your design oh great one, you seem to have all the answers.

I've already stated what i'd like to see done. It's a more feasible long term solution, more unique rewards. That being said i know that the overall likelyhood of that happening isn't great. However, doesn't change what i feel about the short sighted way of adjusting them of slapdashing AG's and MC's on everything and calling it fixed.

Yes, which is unlikely to happen, so what is your suggestion based on reality?

[maddoctor.2738]

@Tyson.5160 said:Ama gem stones or mystic coins, or a combination of the two for serpents ire. Possibly adding a mystic coin to each PoF Meta as a daily like HoT does for Gemstones.

The expansions need a reason to exist (long term) and Amalgamated Gemstones are a great reason to re-visit Heart of Thorns maps often. If they add the Amalgamated Gemstones to another expansion then the value of the Heart of Thorns meta events will be lowered. On one hand, because there'd be another way, in a more recent expansion, to get them, and at the same time because their price will be much lowered.

Adding a Mystic Coin reward in Serpent's Ire would be fine I think. I remember Serpent's Ire giving a chance to get a chest containing the named sunspear weapons (for the specialization collections) when was that removed? That would've been probably the best reward for Serpent's Ire, those weapons are still very expensive (more than Mystic Coins), have no other reliable way of acquiring them, and they are Path of Fire content. The other option is to make Intact Mosaics (the other main reward of Serpent's Ire) more valuable and important to the game, other than crafting Griever's Gear.

[CptAurellian.9537]

@maddoctor.2738 said:I remember Serpent's Ire giving a chance to get a chest containing the named sunspear weapons (for the specialization collections) when was that removed?Was it removed? Or is the drop rate just so bad that there's no reason to expect one of these chests, thus no reason to play the meta?

[maddoctor.2738]

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:I remember Serpent's Ire giving a chance to get a chest containing the named sunspear weapons (for the specialization collections) when was that removed?Was it removed? Or is the drop rate just so bad that there's no reason to expect one of these chests, thus no reason to play the meta?

Nevermind, it's called Chest of the Desert Specialist and it still drops from Serpent's Ire, Augury Rock and the Maws of Torment meta events. So all the major Path of Fire meta events have it as a special drop, that's the "Amalgamated Gemstone" of Path of Fire. The drop chance might be really low and that's the major problem with their rewards. Of course, if they dropped more often, their price would go down and we'd be at square one again (looking for something new/expensive to put behind Path of Fire meta events).

Edit: Since they all also drop Intact Mosaics, maybe they could add a merchant that trades Intact Mosaics (lots of them) for the Specialization weapons, in that way they'd add a long term goal for the Path of Fire meta events that isn't random.

[CptAurellian.9537]

@maddoctor.2738 said:Edit: Since they all also drop Intact Mosaics, maybe they could add a merchant that trades Intact Mosaics (lots of them) for the Specialization weapons, in that way they'd add a long term goal for the Path of Fire meta events that isn't random.Now that's quite an excellent idea. Those mosaics currently are close to worthless anyway.

[maddoctor.2738]

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:Edit: Since they all also drop Intact Mosaics, maybe they could add a merchant that trades Intact Mosaics (lots of them) for the Specialization weapons, in that way they'd add a long term goal for the Path of Fire meta events that isn't random.Now that's quite an excellent idea. Those mosaics currently are close to worthless anyway.

To follow up the idea, intact mosaics go for 7s 70c while the cheapest specialization weapon is at 8g 70s, the most expensive weapon is at 21g 50s.So you need 113 intact mosaics to get the cheapest weapon and 279 (!!!) for the most expensive one at current TP prices. Since their price would change rapidly if they allowed purchase of spec weapons, I don't think such high numbers will be needed. I mean running Serpent's Ire 279/3 = 93 times to get what you want (and 93 times the other 2 meta events) is probably way too excessive

[CptAurellian.9537]

Assuming 1 mosaic per meta, I don't think anything above 20 mosaics (given the PITA Serpent's Ire is, rather 10) per weapon would be reasonable. There's quite a bunch of specialisation weapons you'll want anyway.

[Tyson.5160]

Would be something you could acquire after the collections?

[Tyson.5160]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:Ama gem stones or mystic coins, or a combination of the two for serpents ire. Possibly adding a mystic coin to each PoF Meta as a daily like HoT does for Gemstones.

The expansions need a reason to exist (long term) and Amalgamated Gemstones are a great reason to re-visit Heart of Thorns maps often. If they add the Amalgamated Gemstones to another expansion then the value of the Heart of Thorns meta events will be lowered. On one hand, because there'd be another way, in a more recent expansion, to get them, and at the same time because their price will be much lowered.

Adding a Mystic Coin reward in Serpent's Ire would be fine I think. I remember Serpent's Ire giving a chance to get a chest containing the named sunspear weapons (for the specialization collections) when was that removed? That would've been probably the best reward for Serpent's Ire, those weapons are still very expensive (more than Mystic Coins), have no other reliable way of acquiring them, and they are Path of Fire content. The other option is to make Intact Mosaics (the other main reward of Serpent's Ire) more valuable and important to the game, other than crafting Griever's Gear.

Which is fair, restrict the AG to HoT and do a mystic coin for PoF because mystic coins are used for PoF for some of the collections. When you start to get more mystic coins you can sell them for the AG and vice versa.

[mortrialus.3062]

I think the movie away from dungeons to fractals was a mistake in the long run but we're too committed to this to turn back now.

The cool thing about raids and even dungeons are poorly implemented as they were is the feeling of pushing into extremely dangerous physical territory, territory so dangerous you can't explore it them on your own. Fractals, despite T4 and challenge motes currently being better game play than dungeons ever were, when you break them away from the raw mechanical aspect of them just feel like gobbledygook. You go into a raid and or dungeon and it feels like a tangible real place in the context of the game universe. Like unless we ever visit an open world map and we see "Oh it's the forest from Snowblind in here!' or "Wait this is cliffside fractal" they all feel irrelevant.

I think that in the long run adding the game play and rewards of T4 fractals into physical dungeons in the world would have been the wiser decision. It feels more future proofed and just because you're still calling them dungeons doesn't mean they have to be related to the old ones in structure and rewards. Just admit that new dungeons are different now.

Even the marketing aspect feels clunky. Like the trailer for Long Live the Lich was amazing and the new fractal looks really cool. But from an outsider perspective people watching that trailer who have never seen or played GW2 are going to hear "New Fractal" and have no idea that it's cool repeatable end game 5 Man PvE content the way they'd immediately understand "Dungeon" or "Raid."

The ratio of raids to fractals is pretty on point, but I have to wonder what the team is going to do in two or three years time when we get our 26th fractal.

[Tyson.5160]

@"mortrialus.3062" said:I think the movie away from dungeons to fractals was a mistake in the long run but we're too committed to this to turn back now.

The cool thing about raids and even dungeons are poorly implemented as they were is the feeling of pushing into extremely dangerous physical territory, territory so dangerous you can't explore it them on your own. Fractals, despite T4 and challenge motes currently being better game play than dungeons ever were, when you break them away from the raw mechanical aspect of them just feel like gobbledygook. You go into a raid and or dungeon and it feels like a tangible real place in the context of the game universe. Like unless we ever visit an open world map and we see "Oh it's the forest from Snowblind in here!' or "Wait this is cliffside fractal" they all feel irrelevant.

I think that in the long run adding the game play and rewards of T4 fractals into physical dungeons in the world would have been the wiser decision. It feels more future proofed and just because you're still calling them dungeons doesn't mean they have to be related to the old ones in structure and rewards. Just admit that new dungeons are different now.

Even the marketing aspect feels clunky. Like the trailer for Long Live the Lich was amazing and the new fractal looks really cool. But from an outsider perspective people watching that trailer who have never seen or played GW2 are going to hear "New Fractal" and have no idea that it's cool repeatable end game 5 Man PvE content the way they'd immediately understand "Dungeon" or "Raid."

The ratio of raids to fractals is pretty on point, but I have to wonder what the team is going to do in two or three years time when we get our 26th fractal.

Probably doing revamping or adding CMs.

Edit: It’s very unlikely, but it would be nice if they went back and added a dungeon to HoT and one to PoF, with a major collection to them for Armor pieces.

[maddoctor.2738]

@mortrialus.3062 said:but I have to wonder what the team is going to do in two or three years time when we get our 26th fractal.

When that happens, they will change the Fractal system. I think there was a developer quote about it around these forums, or maybe it was on reddit.It will take quite some time to reach that point, as you say, two to three years, I hope when they create the new system they'll tell us a loooong time before it's finished so we can comment on it and provide feedback, before it's released (too late at that point)

[TexZero.7910]

@Tyson.5160 said:Which is fair, restrict the AG to HoT and do a mystic coin for PoF because mystic coins are used for PoF for some of the collections. When you start to get more mystic coins you can sell them for the AG and vice versa.

Or restrict Mystic coins to their current method so they still retain value. There's no reason to keep lowering their price based on people who want legendaries but don't want to spend money/log-in and earn them. They are intentionally designed to have a slow acquisition method and speeding that up defeats their intended design.

I do like the proposed Mosiac/Spec weapon collection idea as well as adding the unique Exotic Sunspear weapons (found in Istan) to the potential loot table of all PoF Meta events.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:Which is fair, restrict the AG to HoT and do a mystic coin for PoF because mystic coins are used for PoF for some of the collections. When you start to get more mystic coins you can sell them for the AG and vice versa.

Or restrict Mystic coins to their current method so they still retain value. There's no reason to keep lowering their price based on people who want legendaries but don't want to spend money/log-in and earn them. They are intentionally designed to have a slow acquisition method and speeding that up defeats their intended design.

I do like the proposed Mosiac/Spec weapon collection idea as well as adding the unique Exotic Sunspear weapons (found in Istan) to the potential loot table of all PoF Meta events.

Or move / rotate the acquisition of AG, mystic coins ea. so that we dont have to do the same events every day incase players want to manually obtain them.

If the acquisition can not be increased anyway.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

But GW2's focus on open world content is one of it's biggest strengths IMO. No other MMO I've played to date has been so successful in nailing what makes open world PvE fun, while at the same time, encouraging collaboration with other players. Agreed, you don't need the group comp or coordination of a raid or T4 fractal to bring down The Shatterer, but that style of gameplay will always be for a select audience.

I've spent my time as a hardcore progression raider in other games, and now, I'm loving short 5 man fractals, participating in meta events, or helping other people with bounties, HPs or taking down bloodstone crazed beasts. I can pretty much guarantee that the bulk of the people who create F2P accounts or buy GW2 in the near future aren't doing so for 10 man raiding or hardmode instances. They want to explore the open world, play Fashion Wars, and/or participate in PvP / WvW.

[Tyson.5160]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:Which is fair, restrict the AG to HoT and do a mystic coin for PoF because mystic coins are used for PoF for some of the collections. When you start to get more mystic coins you can sell them for the AG and vice versa.

Or restrict Mystic coins to their current method so they still retain value. There's no reason to keep lowering their price based on people who want legendaries but don't want to spend money/log-in and earn them. They are intentionally designed to have a slow acquisition method and speeding that up defeats their intended design.

I do like the proposed Mosiac/Spec weapon collection idea as well as adding the unique Exotic Sunspear weapons (found in Istan) to the potential loot table of all PoF Meta events.

Adding it to a few not all the metas would not immediately kill the value. It’s just like AG in there are multiple ways to acquire them. So far you haven’t suggested anything useful, just poo pooed ideas, which seems to be your strong suit, of course anyone can say “no”.

[TexZero.7910]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:Nah, you went uhhhh let’s add some unique rewards, which would have been a great idea if they hadn’t already finished developing Path of Fire and as you probably know (or who knows maybe you don’t) the devs rarely ever add new assets like armor and weapons to metas unless they were already there to begin, which makes your suggestion worst then mine.

Edit: My suggestion, which isn’t even original, plenty of people have suggested it, is a very suitable and might have a chance to happen, what you are asking for is the in the same realm as fairy tales and fantasy.

Because reading is hard

I do like the proposed Mosiac/Spec weapon collection idea

as well as adding the unique Exotic Sunspear weapons (found in Istan) to the potential loot table of all PoF Meta events.

I did suggest something that is much more reasonable and less problematic for the economy than slapping AG's and Mystic Coins on everything. Additionally just because a lot of people came to the same bad conclusion doesn't make it a good idea. I've stated this already in this thread and your blinding rage to get them is prohibiting you from using even simplistic logic to see that adding more sources of these diminish their value as well as the value of Legendaries which are meant to be top shelf as far as cost and long term goals goes. What you and others who agree with you ultimately are doing is turning something valuable into something as common as Mithril Ore.

Only for you, Tex, apparently. You suggest unique rewards, which take too much dev time and resources, which does not make it reasonable or less problematic. Others have made the suggestion regarding Mosaic and Spec Weapons.

As of right now we have one daily farm for Mystic coins. You could slap a Mystic coin at the end of serpent ire and possibly on a longer meta in river lands. That adds to three mystic coins a day if you even bother to the original farm. We also had the addition of the fractals two mystic clover dailies as well. So no, I don’t think sprinkling a few coins will kill the economy.

I think this part of the discussion ends here or we will be back to the easy mode raid thread with 3500 messages back and forth. Unless you want to continue with this verbal war-fare.

You are still missing it and it baffles me how....

These https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Main_Thrust While sharing the same skin are not the same as specialization weapons and can only be crafted once you've already unlocked the matching skin. They already exist and in the world and dont take any conceptual time to create. They are UNIQUE items to PoF.

Now then is this clear or are you going to continue to be petulant because someone told you you're idea was bad for the economy, which it is. Adding more ways to obtain Mystic coins and AG's devalues them. A point you've yet to counter because factually you know you cannot so you'd rather have a shot at attempting to absurdly impugn me as a contrarian.

[andyhens.4172]

I'd rather have a new dungeon every so often, or at least as part of an expansion, than never ending fractals which are looking more and more like raid wings.

I have a number of friends who simply don't like fractals, or can't raid (ability or interest/time), and have no new dungeons to play. The focus on LS maps and fractals rather than dungeons is madness, and I'm amazed hasn't been overturned considering how long ago that decision was made.

Split the introduction of dungeons and fractals 50/50 going forward and let the raid team keep not doing whatever they're supposed to be doing.