How come there's no communication about the delay of the next raid wing?

[Ayrilana.1396]

@morbious.6492 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@morbious.6492 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@morbious.6492 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:If a raid wing were delayed, wouldn’t there have to have been a release date or established release schedule in the first place?

Edit: Below are the intervals between wing releases.

W1->W2: 112 daysW2->W3: 98 daysW3->W4: 239 daysW4->W5: 293 days

Since W5: 209 days

I’d say it’s safe to say that there no set schedule and they don’t get released until they’re ready. Each raid wing’s development is unique.

Except that after Hall of Chains took nearly 10 months to release, Crystal Reid told us that the next few wings will be coming sooner than how long it took to make Hall of Chains. Even if the next episode of living world comes out on 3 months on the dot, the next raid wing will come out 300 days after W5's release, 9 months and 29 days. So while we don't have a schedule, we did have an idea that we would expect W6 to be released sooner than 9 months and 22 days from the last wing.

Raid wing releases are not tied to living story releases. The next wing could be released anytime between now and the next episode. There is still 84 days remaining until their claim no longer is valid.

The last two raid wings were released with living world patches. If this pattern were going to stop, then why is ANet not allowed to warn us? Why are you defending the lack of communication with strawman arguments?

I suggest looking up what a straw man argument is first before blindly making that accusation.

They made a statement that raid releases were not tied to living story releases. Because two raid wing releases happened to coincide with living story releases, you’re now making the claim that this is the new norm.

A strawman argument is when you're arguing against points I didn't make to distract from the original argument. You keep trying to bring up things like raid wings not being released with living world all the time, when the original argument was poor communication with the players, which in the end if it weren't happening, your argument wouldn't matter in the first place.

That’s very odd considering you are the one comparing the raid schedule to the living story schedule and it being “late” based on that. You make the assumption that raids only release with living story updates, and since it didn’t coming with tomorrow’s, and the next one is months away, then it must be delayed. Your entire argument is centered around the belief that the raid schedule and living story schedule coincide with each other.

You can’t call someone’s argument a straw man just because they disagree with you on a topic your brought up in the first place.

Here you make the argument in your first post

So the most educated conclusion would be that the next raid wing will likely not show up until episode 4 comes out

And again in another post

Even if the next episode of living world comes out on 3 months on the dot, the next raid wing will come out 300 days after W5's release, 9 months and 29 days.

And a third time

The last two raid wings were released with living world patches. If this pattern were going to stop, then why is ANet not allowed to warn us?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@morbious.6492 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Why do you assume new raid is delayed?

You can read the first paragraph of my post along with the first sentence of the next paragraph.

Can't see anything of substance there. Defend your thread if you feel you're right.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:It's obvious you have a predetermined position, and, as such, disregard anything contrary to that position.

If you don't care about the answers, why ask the question?

This.

@morbious.6492I have to ask myself, what good does criticizing and arguing with other forum participants who are not involved with arenanet besides being their customers achieve?

People have pointed out what any normal player who is invested in the content could. No one is happy about this least of all arenanet because content delay is never a good sell.

Take that information or leave it. It;s all you are going to get, especially with how you've responded to people who have been providing answers.

@morbious.6492 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:"We are planning to release raids with more regularity this season."

That's not a promise of a raid wing with every LW release or a promise of any sort, really. It says exactly what it means: they are PLANNING to release them more frequently this season. If people chose to read more into that than what was there, then that's on those people.

Again, you're arguing against something I seriously don't care about. If it really is going to be released halfway between this episode and the next, why are they not telling us? Where is the communication with the community saying that either they were wrong about more frequent releases, or that we should expect more information on the raid coming soon?

You're right, they could be more open and communicate things more. It's their call. Now roll back your entitlement and realize that plans and development times do not always meet expectations.

[morbious.6492]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:It's obvious you have a predetermined position, and, as such, disregard anything contrary to that position.

If you don't care about the answers, why ask the question?

No one here has given me any argument that would make me see otherwise.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@morbious.6492 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@morbious.6492 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@morbious.6492 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:If a raid wing were delayed, wouldn’t there have to have been a release date or established release schedule in the first place?

Edit: Below are the intervals between wing releases.

W1->W2: 112 daysW2->W3: 98 daysW3->W4: 239 daysW4->W5: 293 days

Since W5: 209 days

I’d say it’s safe to say that there no set schedule and they don’t get released until they’re ready. Each raid wing’s development is unique.

Except that after Hall of Chains took nearly 10 months to release, Crystal Reid told us that the next few wings will be coming sooner than how long it took to make Hall of Chains. Even if the next episode of living world comes out on 3 months on the dot, the next raid wing will come out 300 days after W5's release, 9 months and 29 days. So while we don't have a schedule, we did have an idea that we would expect W6 to be released sooner than 9 months and 22 days from the last wing.

Raid wing releases are not tied to living story releases. The next wing could be released anytime between now and the next episode. There is still 84 days remaining until their claim no longer is valid.

The last two raid wings were released with living world patches. If this pattern were going to stop, then why is ANet not allowed to warn us? Why are you defending the lack of communication with strawman arguments?

I suggest looking up what a straw man argument is first before blindly making that accusation.

They made a statement that raid releases were not tied to living story releases. Because two raid wing releases happened to coincide with living story releases, you’re now making the claim that this is the new norm.

A strawman argument is when you're arguing against points I didn't make to distract from the original argument. You keep trying to bring up things like raid wings not being released with living world all the time, when the original argument was poor communication with the players, which in the end if it weren't happening, your argument wouldn't matter in the first place.

That’s very odd considering you are the one comparing the raid schedule to the living story schedule and it being “late” based on that. You make the assumption that raids only release with living story updates, and since it didn’t coming with tomorrow’s, and the next one is months away, then it must be delayed. Your entire argument is centered around the belief that the raid schedule and living story schedule coincide with each other.

You can’t call someone’s argument a straw man just because they disagree with you on a topic your brought up in the first place.

Here you make the argument in your first post

So the most educated conclusion would be that the next raid wing will likely not show up until episode 4 comes out

And again in another post

Even if the next episode of living world comes out on 3 months on the dot, the next raid wing will come out 300 days after W5's release, 9 months and 29 days.

And a third time

The last two raid wings were released with living world patches. If this pattern were going to stop, then why is ANet not allowed to warn us?

Did you read what I said? You are trying to detract from my post with supporting arguments and arguing against that but not the argument that was being supported itself. Yes, it is possible that the next raid could come out outside of a living world release. But all of this just leads back to the fact that we shouldn't have to be playing guessing games on whether or not ANet actually cares for the raiders anymore simply because they won't talk to us.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@morbious.6492 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Why do you assume new raid is delayed?

You can read the first paragraph of my post along with the first sentence of the next paragraph.

Can't see anything of substance there. Defend your thread if you feel you're right.

I don't see what you're trying to say, I said why I assume the new raid is delayed, you asked why I assume the new raid is delayed, I directed you to where I said why I assume the new raid is delayed. I've already made my defense, there is no point in me saying it again.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:It's obvious you have a predetermined position, and, as such, disregard anything contrary to that position.

If you don't care about the answers, why ask the question?

This.

@morbious.6492I have to ask myself, what good does criticizing and arguing with other forum participants who are not involved with arenanet besides being their customers achieve?

People have pointed out what any normal player who is invested in the content could. No one is happy about this least of all arenanet because content delay is never a good sell.

Take that information or leave it. It;s all you are going to get, especially with how you've responded to people who have been providing answers.

@morbious.6492 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:"We are planning to release raids with more regularity this season."

That's not a promise of a raid wing with every LW release or a promise of any sort, really. It says exactly what it means: they are PLANNING to release them more frequently this season. If people chose to read more into that than what was there, then that's on those people.

Again, you're arguing against something I seriously don't care about. If it really is going to be released halfway between this episode and the next, why are they not telling us? Where is the communication with the community saying that either they were wrong about more frequent releases, or that we should expect more information on the raid coming soon?

You're right, they could be more open and communicate things more. It's their call. Now roll back your entitlement and realize that plans and development times do not always meet expectations.

Wow I was wondering how long it would be until someone tried to call me entitled. Yeah, sure let's all just sit back and watch as they slowly slaughter the raiding community. Why not instead just start talking more? We used to have Q&As, dev blogs, and even constant posts on threads about issues with raids and such, but now we get a single peep every maybe half a year. If they don't like how they failed to meet one promise, then they should fix it by keeping us more up to date with what's happening. No one would have noticed that "we will release raids more frequently this season" quote as much if it weren't literally the only word we've had in the past 6 months about raiding. Also can you stop trying to act like I'm angry about the raid being delayed, when I've made it very apparent throughout this thread that I'm angry that no one is talking to us about the situation?

[Leon de Damasco.8105]

Hello!Now I see from where the confusion of the OP came.RoseofGilead.8907 read the link you gave, and noticed, and quote it right.OP avoided to mention the "planing" part even when RoG did. Thank you RoG for clearing it.Have fun and good luck.

[Cyninja.2954]

@morbious.6492 said:

Wow I was wondering how long it would be until someone tried to call me entitled. Yeah, sure let's all just sit back and watch as they slowly slaughter the raiding community.

You have yet to prove that the delay is the sole reason for this.

• the last wing especially Dhuum was quite challenging. It has drawn a lot less raiders compared to wing 4
• any old time raiders have collected all the LI they might ever need and might have burned out or are taking a break
• the current maximum amount of LI per week is 17, up from 3 when only wing 1 was available. Getting the 150 LI for the first legendary armor (a primary goal for many new raiders) is easier than ever. Unlike before those players then leave the raid pool faster

There is multiple reasons why raids might be struggling or seeing less participation besides only the release schedule.

@morbious.6492 said:Why not instead just start talking more? We used to have Q&As, dev blogs, and even constant posts on threads about issues with raids and such, but now we get a single peep every maybe half a year. If they don't like how they failed to meet one promise, then they should fix it by keeping us more up to date with what's happening. No one would have noticed that "we will release raids more frequently this season" quote as much if it weren't literally the only word we've had in the past 6 months about raiding.

Raids are niche content. If we are to speculate then a part of the developer team is already allocated to creating the next expansion while other teams are working on Living World Episodes. Basically the stuff which arenanet feels is most important to keep the game popular. If raids do not fit in that schedule and if no time can be allocated for Q&As, then no time can be allocated.

@morbious.6492 said:Also can you stop trying to act like I'm angry about the raid being delayed, when I've made it very apparent throughout this thread that I'm angry that no one is talking to us about the situation?

Your mostly angry that most people do not see the issue as so grave or do not demand a developer response. This behavior resembles that of a pouty child which doesn't get its way. Mommy and daddy will address the issue when they see fit, not when you do. You keep making it seem as though arenanet does this intentionally when they are the ones to lose the most (like their customers thus their salaries thus their income and livelihood). All you lose is some nights of sleep because worst case you might have to move on to another game.

Your stakes are way lower, yet you set demands as though your life was at stake. That's why I called you acting entitled.

[morbious.6492]

@"Leon de Damasco.8105" said:Hello!Now I see from where the confusion of the OP came.RoseofGilead.8907 read the link you gave, and noticed, and quote it right.OP avoided to mention the "planing" part even when RoG did. Thank you RoG for clearing it.Have fun and good luck.

No one said otherwise, I never implied that they called it a guarantee, I'm saying that this is literally the only bit of communication we've gotten regarding raids. When this is the ONLY piece of information we have to go off of, and it is no longer true, then why has no one come out yet to talk about it?

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@morbious.6492 said:

Wow I was wondering how long it would be until someone tried to call me entitled. Yeah, sure let's all just sit back and watch as they slowly slaughter the raiding community.

You have yet to prove that the delay is the sole reason for this.

• the last wing especially Dhuum was quite challenging. It has drawn a lot less raiders compared to wing 4
• any old time raiders have collected all the LI they might ever need and might have burned out or are taking a break
• the current maximum amount of LI per week is 17, up from 3 when only wing 1 was available. Getting the 150 LI for the first legendary armor (a primary goal for many new raiders) is easier than ever. Unlike before those players then leave the raid pool faster

There is multiple reasons why raids might be struggling or seeing less participation besides only the release schedule.

@morbious.6492 said:Why not instead just start talking more? We used to have Q&As, dev blogs, and even constant posts on threads about issues with raids and such, but now we get a single peep every maybe half a year. If they don't like how they failed to meet one promise, then they should fix it by keeping us more up to date with what's happening. No one would have noticed that "we will release raids more frequently this season" quote as much if it weren't literally the only word we've had in the past 6 months about raiding.

Raids are niche content. If we are to speculate then a part of the developer team is already allocated to creating the next expansion while other teams are working on Living World Episodes. Basically the stuff which arenanet feels is most important to keep the game popular. If raids do not fit in that schedule and if no time can be allocated for Q&As, then no time can be allocated.

@morbious.6492 said:Also can you stop trying to act like I'm angry about the raid being delayed, when I've made it very apparent throughout this thread that I'm angry that no one is talking to us about the situation?

Your mostly angry that most people do not see the issue as so grave or do not demand a developer response. This behavior resembles that of a pouty child which doesn't get its way. Mommy and daddy will address the issue when they see fit, not when you do. You keep making it seem as though arenanet does this intentionally when they are the ones to lose the most (like their customers thus their salaries thus their income and livelihood). All you lose is some nights of sleep because worst case you might have to move on to another game.

Your stakes are way lower, yet you set demands as though your life was at stake. That's why I called you acting entitled.

First part of your post is a good argument, but a lot of raiders seem to agree that the lack of support for the raiders has been doing in a lot of people. I'm sure these other points contribute just as well.

The second part, I'm gonna to disagree with simply because they don't support the other game modes all that much either. The WvW alliance stuff gets an update every few months, but that's about it. We were told that LS4E3 was delayed, but only after a large amount of the community started asking questions. PvP is uhhh, lmao.

Then the last part you're just sounding like a jerk. Never in this thread have I made it seem like this is a grave issue, or that my life is at stake. Your comparisons to this being like a pouty child is ironically, childish. I've been nothing but nice in this thread, I am not trying to paint ArenaNet as some evil overlord here to take our money and nothing else. All I'm pointing out is that it feels like ANet is seriously lacking in some departments. I can understand delays, I can understand problems arising, I can understand wanting to focus on another market (ok maybe not as much but that'd be anyone's reaction to being told you're no longer being catered to), but I'm tired of being teased and messed around with. If any of this is happening, I'd appreciate them coming out and just telling us what's going on.

[Cyninja.2954]

@morbious.6492 said:The second part, I'm gonna to disagree with simply because they don't support the other game modes all that much either. The WvW alliance stuff gets an update every few months, but that's about it. We were told that LS4E3 was delayed, but only after a large amount of the community started asking questions. PvP is uhhh, lmao.

I was referring to open world and living world content which makes up clearly the majority of the games focus. Yes, spvp and wvw need a lot more love. I'd even say they are in line to get way more attention before raids do.

@morbious.6492 said:Then the last part you're just sounding like a jerk. Never in this thread have I made it seem like this is a grave issue, or that my life is at stake. Your comparisons to this being like a pouty child is ironically, childish. I've been nothing but nice in this thread, I am not trying to paint ArenaNet as some evil overlord here to take our money and nothing else. All I'm pointing out is that it feels like ANet is seriously lacking in some departments. I can understand delays, I can understand problems arising, I can understand wanting to focus on another market (ok maybe not as much but that'd be anyone's reaction to being told you're no longer being catered to), but I'm tired of being teased and messed around with. If any of this is happening, I'd appreciate them coming out and just telling us what's going on.

Calling people strawmaning, disregarding other arguments and wondering why no one is agreeing with you is not what I would call a nice approach, but maybe you are right and I missunderstood and/or over reacted.

Here is what it boils down to: almost no one should or is happy about the situation (unless you are a bitter person who enjoys other players not getting content they might enjoy). Especially people who enjoy raiding on a regular basis (to which I count myself). Can we complain? Sure, that's a basic customer right. Does how we complain matter? It often does. Will it make some developers jump up and start working harder on the next right? Doubtful. Will arenanets response about where and how raids are progressing be affected? Maybe on reddit and only once they decide to.

As customers the best approach is to let the developers know we need more raid content and information (and trust me, they know since they have tons of metrics on player activity). As with all matters in big companys, it's not up to an individual and work loads are determined days/weeks/months in advance. Let alone customer relations which are and should be carefully crafted and managed (I don't even want to imagine how many developers might want to chime in but know better than to do so).

[Linken.6345]

@morbious.6492 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:"We are planning to release raids with more regularity this season."

That's not a promise of a raid wing with every LW release or a promise of any sort, really. It says exactly what it means: they are PLANNING to release them more frequently this season. If people chose to read more into that than what was there, then that's on those people.

Again, you're arguing against something I seriously don't care about. If it really is going to be released halfway between this episode and the next, why are they not telling us? Where is the communication with the community saying that either they were wrong about more frequent releases, or that we should expect more information on the raid coming soon?

Easy to answer if it get pushed back people would come to the forum and call them liars and that the sky was burning kinda like this thread is doing.They will give us a heads up when its a week before release like always.

And about releasing more frequently we could get wing 6,7,8 with each 3 months apart that would be more frequently no matter how long its bettwen 5 and 6.

Gw2 aint a raid heavy game so wont get raids as quickly as one who is.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"morbious.6492" said:But why? Why is it not going to release until then?Maybe because it's not ready?

Better yet, why has it been this long and we still haven't been told yet?Wy should we? It's not like they announced any "delays" thing during the 293 days between w4 and w5. Nor did they ever announced any schedule to raid releases they'd end up delayed from now.

Who at ANet is responsible for community relations, because how is it possible that you think the current situation is in a good as it gets spot?Why do you think it isn't in a good spot?

Right now I feel like I can't trust Arena Net at all, how am I supposed to trust you in the future that this won't be the new norm? As a person who plays the game mostly to raid, why would I continue playing if we get one raid wing per year?Perhaps you should have asked yourself that question when you started playing a game that has been known to be one of the most casual MMOs (if not simply the most casual MMO) on the market.

I've already been resorting to playing other MMOs to bide my time. I would straight up quit the game, but I, like most other people realize that this is an unintended effort to kill off the raiding community. If we quit now, there likely won't be a raiding community to come back to. It already halved the community when the massive delay between BotP and Hall of Chains happened, how could Arena Net let it happen again?Honestly, i don't think they ever planned to have a community of players that only raid. What they wanted was to offer a more challenging option for players that were already mostly okay with GW2. Expecting anything more is a mistake on your part, not theirs.

Is Arena Net shifting focus from raidingSince GW2 is not a raid-centered game, it's not like you could expect that focus to last long anyway. It was merely a case of being focused on their newest addition to the game, and lasted as long as it was the newest addition. Since then, their focus moved on to new things. Which is by the way quite normal, and not a new type of behaviour. They kept moving focus from one thing to another practically since launch.

This is what it feels like, and if the communication on the subject remains like it is, the community has no choice but to feel like you just don't care about us.Oh, please, you're talking about one of the content types that are still receiving a lot of dev attention from devs. If you think Anet doesn't care about raiders, you really should talk with PvPers and WvWers.

Or did something come up in development and it had to be delayed?Again, for a delay to exist, a schedule must exist first.

As i see it, you've had too much expectations on Anet and this game, based on nothing but your own wishes, and now you are angry that they weren't met. You also for some reason think it's Anet's fault for not telling you they won't be met, even though they never said they will be.

The only problem lies in you reading too much out of Anet dev statements.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@morbious.6492 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@morbious.6492 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Why do you assume new raid is delayed?

You can read the first paragraph of my post along with the first sentence of the next paragraph.

Can't see anything of substance there. Defend your thread if you feel you're right.

I don't see what you're trying to say, I said why I assume the new raid is delayed, you asked why I assume the new raid is delayed, I directed you to where I said why I assume the new raid is delayed. I've already made my defense, there is no point in me saying it again.

Nothing is delayed because they never gave us release date in the first place. You can say your expactations are not met but nowhere in the official communication it was stated to expect W6 with this episode.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@morbious.6492 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:If a raid wing were delayed, wouldn’t there have to have been a release date or established release schedule in the first place?

Edit: Below are the intervals between wing releases.

W1->W2: 112 daysW2->W3: 98 daysW3->W4: 239 daysW4->W5: 293 days

Since W5: 209 days

I’d say it’s safe to say that there no set schedule and they don’t get released until they’re ready. Each raid wing’s development is unique.

Except that after Hall of Chains took nearly 10 months to release, Crystal Reid told us that the next few wings will be coming sooner than how long it took to make Hall of Chains. Even if the next episode of living world comes out on 3 months on the dot, the next raid wing will come out 300 days after W5's release, 9 months and 29 days. So while we don't have a schedule, we did have an idea that we would expect W6 to be released sooner than 9 months and 22 days from the last wing.

In technicality, if Episode 5 is released on the '2 month' mark, it'd be 267 days which is indeed less than 293. So Reid's statement isn't false yet. And even if Episode 4 was released at three months after Episode 3, this would only make her a liar due to the delay of Episode 3 itself, and not for when it would be ready for release.

That said, there's always going to be unforeseen problems that pop up. I will admit I find it odd that they're not releasing one with Episode 3 given its lengthy delay, but I always figured from the get go the next raid would be Episode 4.

A fractal every other release, a raid every third release. That seems, to me, to be their overall intended goal. If they had delayed Stronghold a month, it would have released with S3E1, while Bastion released with S3E4; Hall of Chains should have thus been with PoF, but iirc they mentioned they were holding back for PoF spoilers so it got put with Daybreak instead.

This makes sense to me, since raids seem to take more effort from the designers to build, to ensure it is challenging content and more often than not they seem to take up more new art assets too.

[Henry.5713]

They seem to have a different idea on what 'needs' to be communicated. That is all. We have yet to see any real pattern in the release schedules of any content in this game, in close to six years. Any new supposed focus or any release windows always ended up being abandoned soon after. Not sure why people expected it to be any different this time. Reminds me of those who still keep quoting the manifesto, something from before even the stone age of this game. These things are bound to change eventually.

[Vinceman.4572]

@OP:It's done when it's done.TMJust get over it and wait. It was the same in the past and it'll be in the future. They'll hand out informations/teasers/trailers when they think it's the right time. If you think you can't trust Anet any longer and have to leave GW2 then do it.
I'm raiding myself and I can wait. There's enough other games to play than spending all my freetime inside this MMO. I guess you're not an adult. Time will come and you'll be more relaxed about your hobby!

[ProtoGunner.4953]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:If a raid wing were delayed, wouldn’t there have to have been a release date or established release schedule in the first place?

Edit: Below are the intervals between wing releases.

W1->W2: 112 daysW2->W3: 98 daysW3->W4: 239 daysW4->W5: 293 days

Since W5: 209 days

I’d say it’s safe to say that there no set schedule and they don’t get released until they’re ready. Each raid wing’s development is unique.

Lol fucking nearly 300 days for two bosses :joy: Ridiculous.

[maddoctor.2738]

One way to see the schedule is using "days", now let's see it in "number of episodes" instead. Episodes started after the release of W3W3 -> W4: 4 episodes, Bastion was released ~7 months after Season 3 started, we got 4 episodes in 239 days or ~60 days per episodeW4 -> W5: 3 episodes, Hall of Chains was released ~9 months after Bastion, we got 3 episodes in 293 days, or ~98 days per episode

Since W5: 2 episodes (including Long Live the Lich), ~7 months after Hall of Chains, we got 2 episodes in 209 days, or 104 days per episode

It's not that Raid wings take longer to be released, it's entire episodes that take longer to be released. And for W4->W5 it makes sense because there was an entire expansion released at that point. If they took 7 months to release an episode, would you still ask for more regular Raids?

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

@maddoctor.2738 said:If they took 7 months to release an episode, would you still ask for more regular Raids?

Yes. And I would also ask for more regular Episodes.1 Patch every 3 to 4 months really isnt going to cut it. At least for me.