Any Mirage update info expected before launch?

[eldenbri.1059]

Based on my testing during the beta weekend, I'm planning to stick with Chrono. I love my current build and find it to be really fun.

Has there been any indication of what changes, if any, might come to Mirage in the launch? I went ahead and pre-ordered for myself and my son. I'm sure I'll have fun using the mounts and playing through the PoF story, so I think the money is well spent (and really, for all the hours I've played GW2, it's a bargain).

I've been doing some theorycrafting on Firebrand to satisfy my love of working on alternate builds. I was just hoping for some updated info that might let me think through some other Mirage ideas.

[Levetty.1279]

They are refusing to tell us any changes till they release the expansion. Very anti consumer.

[Durzlla.6295]

As far as I'm aware nothing has been shared about how elite specs will be different from the betas. Which is really upsetting since I really enjoyed reading all of the balance changes between the betas and launch of Heart of Thrones, helped us know what to expect from them when they came out.

On the other hand, I don't think there's anything wrong with sticking with chrono if you prefer that playstyle, I know I for one have 0 intention on playing Soulbeast on my ranger, he'll be a Druid forever.

[Novamatrix.2569]

Came here to ask this question too. I don't care if they tell us what they're changing before launch, but it would be nice to know if they plan on altering the mirage to make it more viable in competitive play. If they do end up changing it, I hope they keep the concept and just edit a few skills and traits variables. Its not a bad spec, it just need to be spiced up a bit to be on par with the other new ones. Im actually very eager to play it.

[Esprit Dumort.3109]

Anet has been quiet on any post-beta changes for all professions. I agree that it would be nice to know if we are going to see any changes, but that might cause unnecessary speculation and the demand for more info.

[Anzriel.1398]

I don't see them releasing numbers before the expansion actually drops. If they do they'll probably just get bashed regardless. lol Anyway we don't have to hang in there too much longer, but I wouldn't get your hopes up on anything other than very minor changes.

[Carighan.6758]

@Esprit Dumort.3109 said:Anet has been quiet on any post-beta changes for all professions. I agree that it would be nice to know if we are going to see any changes, but that might cause unnecessary speculation and the demand for more info.

Sounds like they're quite understaffed. Otherwise they'd have someone working on a proper web page for ongoing development because of the hype it can generate. :anguished:

[Amadeus.5687]

Yeah all we know is that they are indeed doing balance changes now, but we have no idea how big changes and what they are :( I preferred the way they did with HoT, we had 3 weekends to test stuff (Not all professions I know) and lots of changes in between each weekend!

[Carighan.6758]

I don't think they can fix the issues I see with the spec anyhow. That is, the issues are in theme and how the theme was turned into implementation, at basic design levels. Not with balance / numbers / effects.

And I doubt they'll do a complete re-implementation of the spec. There are some ways to do "just the biggest fixes", like making mirrors last 8-10 seconds, making all Deception skills generate mirrors (even Jaunt, which leaves the mirror where you jumped away from and only if you actually moved far enough) and making Ambush skills have a 2s window of opportunity.

But realistically, the spec needs a lot more work if the idea of "weaker dodge but uses dodge offensively" is to be kept. Ambush skills largely need to be scrapped and re-done, the balance is too far off to do it just with number tweaks. Infinite Horizon is a problem, ideally scrapped, if not made baseline (I prefer scrapped because the clone-vs-Mirage interaction is too weird given that we still have Shatter skills and Phantasms). Ambush skills buffed accordingly. Traits are all over the place. Deception skills lack a common element. Shatter makes no sense. Phantasms make no sense. Clone generation is super low despite being utterly reliant on them, forcing Dueling as a traitline.

So yeah, can't see them do all that. Or, even better, scrap the entire spec or start over. Not going to happen either. So I'm hoping they'll just go with the minimal fixes, long-lasting mirrors, better mirror-generation, better ambush window.

[Esplen.3940]

Nah I definitely think it's possible for the spec to get fixed, just not in the one month since the previews. Mirrors getting revamped is the biggest issue, and if the traits get tuned to be on par with another damage spec, or literally any other gen 2 elite, it would vastly improve the playability.

Of course, there are bugs with skills (weapons and utility) and whatnot, but those should be expected to get fixed regardless, and I really don't think bumping the numbers up is the answer (i.e. making Axe objectively better than Scepter as opposed to being comparable).

The traits getting revamped is the more important picture here. They have a theme but no substance to back it up. Normally, you're given a reason to pick a specific line (Inspiration for condi-cleanse, Dueling for 1v1 damage output, Illusions for... illusions, etc). Mirage gives us little in the traits so all we get is a different way to dodge (comparably worse).

[Zarathustra.1458]

I will admit, I currently see no reason at all to buy path of fire. Mayhap I come to enjoy necromancer and this will lead me to buy it for scourge or something. But as it stands, Mirage is just a failure for me. It's an unimaginative gameplay that is built around conditions and standing in aoes... Not seeing any changes coming just makes this all the worse.

[MikeL.8260]

I read somewhere that there have been changes according to player feedback but were not implemented during the stress tests. We'll just have to wait for the full release of PoF.

[Daishi.6027]

There is no way they would admit changes prior to release, bashing will always happen, however if they were open about nerfs it could cause people to queue for refunds before they get their product out. Even if it was not about the money I doubt they would risk the hassle right before launch.

For Mesmer's specifically we are harder to please, but that mostly comes from them building around the poor and/or ineffectual initial design. Which will not be changed no matter how much we ask. (to be fair, at least we can do good dmg now.)With the numbers we have now Mirage offers less than core thief and Chrono in PvP, and less than Chrono in PvE other than mobility. A-net should at LEAST be like "hey we hear your concerns and we're working on it." But I guess that creates an expectation they don't want to feel obligated to satisfy.

[Exciton.8942]

I would expect at least 2 simple changes to mirage

1. Longer time window to use ambush skill
2. Mirage mirror up for much longer.

I would be quite disappointed if they can't even make these 2 happen.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

To bring Mirage up to a reasonably usable level, there's a couple key changes that need to happen.

1. Ambush skill activation needs to be smoother. It's too much of a struggle to activate them right now, it needs to flow effortlessly into an action.
2. Ambush skills need to be drastically buffed to be appropriate given the resource expenditure that they require. Currently many are barely better than a simple autoattack.

If they execute those, mirage will be at least borderline solid. The mirror mechanic needs to be completely rethought, but it's not essential to the function of mirage. The utilities are largely awful, but base mesmer really has no lack of excellent utilities to select, so that's not a huge impediment. Some of the traits are really lackluster, but every level has at least one option that is reasonable, so the line will still offer solid options for a variety of situations.

What really holds mirage back is that activating the ambush skills is a struggle and the ambush skill you are rewarded with for that struggle will be exceedingly poor. Fixing that will really go a long way to making mirage decent.

Edit: Shit the forum markup code changed.

[zealex.9410]

Sticking with the build you like is fun will rotate from chrono to mirage depending on my mood and whether i want to play dps or support. Also i dont expect any info before expac no

[eldenbri.1059]

Hey! I see one of the biggest benefits of the new forums! Fewer people calling Pyro "Fay" :)

I agree with Pyro's point on ambush. The build concepts I came up with were all about maximizing Mirage Cloak / Ambush, but the testing felt underwhelming.

I think I would give it a shot with these changes along with what Pyro suggested:

• Have phantasms execute ambush (with whatever mainhand weapon the mesmer has equipped). Phantasms are supposed to be the really valuable illusions.
• Have some viable passive runspeed option

Guess we'll have to wait and see