Dodging while being stunned

[Toron.4856]

Dodging while being stunned is a huge problem imo.

The whole point of CC is to punish the player for not doding key abilities. Being able to dodge while being stunned and even remove the CC by dodging is against the whole purpose of CC.

Mirage literally has no counterplay to it. Besides good thieves.. Maybe...

Everyone knows it, everyone wants it to be changed. Nothing happens.

Mirage mains, change my mind?

[Megametzler.5729]

@Toron.4856 said:

in b4 l2p

[Airdive.2613]

I know it, I don't want it changed, I've never tried playing mirage.Control skills still serve their purpose. In the case of mirage, getting stunned forces the player to either eat the damage as usual or spend the important resource (endurance).

[Toron.4856]

@"Airdive.2613" said:I know it, I don't want it changed, I've never tried playing mirage.Control skills still serve their purpose. In the case of mirage, getting stunned forces the player to either eat the damage as usual or spend the important resource (endurance).

Any other class than mirage has to spend the important resource (endurance) AND make sure to DODGE IN TIME.

Why does mirage ONLY have to spend endurance WITHOUT dodging in time?

Cmon man.. What a bad argument.

Its not about using endurance its about "being good at the game". If you are not good enough to dodge correctly you should be punished as you are, unless you play mirage.

[Spartacus.3192]

Any other class you can bait their dodges and then CC after they use their precious resource (endurance). Meanwhile mirages say "no worries i'll wait till you actually CC me before i use my precious resource".

Baiting people's defenses properly before landing your rotation is one of the skills that makes a good PvP player. Mirage hard counters that skill.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Airdive.2613 said:I know it, I don't want it changed, I've never tried playing mirage.Control skills still serve their purpose. In the case of mirage, getting stunned forces the player to either eat the damage as usual or spend the important resource (endurance).

In other cases, you stun the enemy then you use your burst skills. If the enemy dodges your stun, they waste their endurance, and you still have your burst cooldowns.

In Mirage's case, you stun her, then you have 2 choices;

• Use your burst and watch it getting dodged
• Save your burst and by the time Cloak ends your stun will end too so watch Mirage counter-pressure you and kill you

I may get hate for this, but if only Elusive Mind allowed Mirage to dodge while stunned and Exhaustion was removed...

[Airdive.2613]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:I know it, I don't want it changed, I've never tried playing mirage.Control skills still serve their purpose. In the case of mirage, getting stunned forces the player to either eat the damage as usual or spend the important resource (endurance).

In other cases, you stun the enemy then you use your burst skills. If the enemy dodges your stun, they waste their endurance, and you still have your burst cooldowns.

In Mirage's case, you stun her, then you have 2 choices;

• Use your burst and watch it getting dodged
• Save your burst and by the time Cloak ends your stun will end too so watch Mirage counter-pressure you and kill you

I may get hate for this, but if only Elusive Mind allowed Mirage to dodge while stunned and Exhaustion was removed...

Well, the players might want to learn to play a bit differently and save up their big burst for later? The perceived OPness of mirage cloak also makes mirages predictable: you know they are very likely to dodge when stunned.Professions (and specializations) are not equal, diversity is good.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:I know it, I don't want it changed, I've never tried playing mirage.Control skills still serve their purpose. In the case of mirage, getting stunned forces the player to either eat the damage as usual or spend the important resource (endurance).

In other cases, you stun the enemy then you use your burst skills. If the enemy dodges your stun, they waste their endurance, and you still have your burst cooldowns.

In Mirage's case, you stun her, then you have 2 choices;

• Use your burst and watch it getting dodged
• Save your burst and by the time Cloak ends your stun will end too so watch Mirage counter-pressure you and kill you

I may get hate for this, but if only Elusive Mind allowed Mirage to dodge while stunned and Exhaustion was removed...

Well, the players might want to learn to play a bit differently and save up their big burst for later?With that much Vigor uptime on it with Adventure runes (are they still meta? i havent played in a long while)The perceived OPness of mirage cloak also makes mirages predictable: you know they are very likely to dodge when stunned.Only bad players will dodge when stunned. Good ones will dodge if you try to burst them while stunned.Professions (and specializations) are not equal, diversity is good.Yes.

[devastoscz.9851]

@"Spartacus.3192" said:Any other class you can bait their dodges and then CC after they use their precious resource (endurance). Meanwhile mirages say "no worries i'll wait till you actually CC me before i use my precious resource".

Baiting people's defenses properly before landing your rotation is one of the skills that makes a good PvP player. Mirage hard counters that skill.

I find myself unable to argue with this logic. In any PvP scenario, players are required to time their skils and CC's to maximize their damage output on the enemy. Mirage effectively denies the enemy's effort and good gameplay/timing simply by running a traitline. What's even more screwed up is that mesmer (both chrono and mirage) have a very streamlined 'conveyor belt' sort of damage output, and not being able to CC them makes it a nightmare to fight against.

Anet basically threw away a core mechanic of the game out the window for an entire subclass?

[Poelala.2830]

@Toron.4856 said:Dodging while being stunned is a huge problem imo.

The whole point of CC is to punish the player for not doding key abilities. Being able to dodge while being stunned and even remove the CC by dodging is against the whole purpose of CC.

Mirage literally has no counterplay to it. Besides good thieves.. Maybe...

Everyone knows it, everyone wants it to be changed. Nothing happens.

Mirage mains, change my mind?

Core Guardian counters mirage. Various other classes can also beat mirage. While being able to dodge while stunned is counterproductive to reaction-based play, it isn't at the moment game-breaking.

[Zawn.9647]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:I know it, I don't want it changed, I've never tried playing mirage.Control skills still serve their purpose. In the case of mirage, getting stunned forces the player to either eat the damage as usual or spend the important resource (endurance).

In other cases, you stun the enemy then you use your burst skills. If the enemy dodges your stun, they waste their endurance, and you still have your burst cooldowns.

In Mirage's case, you stun her, then you have 2 choices;

• Use your burst and watch it getting dodged
• Save your burst and by the time Cloak ends your stun will end too so watch Mirage counter-pressure you and kill you

I may get hate for this, but if only Elusive Mind allowed Mirage to dodge while stunned and Exhaustion was removed...

Well, the players might want to learn to play a bit differently and save up their big burst for later? The perceived OPness of mirage cloak also makes mirages predictable: you know they are very likely to dodge when stunned.Professions (and specializations) are not equal, diversity is good.

Yeah diversity is really good when only 1 spec gets this absurd stuff like dodging to remove stun :)Let me dodge to remove condi thenLet guardians dodge to heal

lol...

[Hadi.3167]

DONT FORGET ELEMENTALIST WHO CAN SHOOT OUT LIGHTNING ARCS AND ENGI WITH THEIR STATIC DISCHARGE, Still being able to deal damage while stunned. Most stupid concept ever! defeats the whole purpose of being STUNNED.

[Hadi.3167]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@"Toron.4856" said:

in b4 l2p

Aint that always the case lol. Every "balance patch" it's always the other player that needs to learn to play lol. You can have 5000 hours and get beat by a guy who just downloaded the game today because a build is broken. Some things are clearly BROKEN I.E Dodge stealth Deadeye. NO COUNTERPLAY

[bravan.3876]

I am frustrated myself of fighting condi/hybrid mirage which also can still dodge too often ty to axe 3 and illusionary ambush (both need at least double the cd they have atm) but even these builds are not op because of being able to dodge while stunned. They are op for other reasons.

The stunbreak should get removed i agree on that but complaining about being able to dodge during stunned by still being unable to use skills and counter burst or move away without other skills used is not that smart when you consider revs can spam dodges a lot too and even have stunbreaks being a dodge, fresh air eles can counterburst you without even the need of breaking out of stun and also blind you during that to avoid the same dmg the mirage dodges etc. Dodging while stunned is a strong feature (the main feature of the mirage spec) but it has counterplay as long as the mirage cannot perma dodge, what is not the case. It also doesn't negate the cc completely because the mesmer is still stunned and for that taken out of the fight for the whole duration. Also he cannot move away out of your dmg range during being stunned without using jaunt or blink. I have no problem at all to hit a mirage with any class in this game when you just l2p vs them. If you use your stun in the start of the fight with the mesmer has all dodges rdy and then right after all your burst skills its your bad play not the mirage getting carried. And when you use your cc to bait dodges you do something wrong too btw.

[KrHome.1920]

@Toron.4856 said:The whole point of CC is to punish the player for not doding key abilities. Being able to dodge while being stunned and even remove the CC by dodging is against the whole purpose of CC.It's like countering reveal with stealth (deadeye elite) - makes no sense at all, but still exists.

ANet ran out of ideas about reasonable new game mechanics, when developing PoF and that's the result.

@Zawn.9647 said:dodge to remove condidodge to heal

lol...This mechanic already exists in the game.

[Hadi.3167]

Mirage biggest problem is the constant access to breaking target. If fighting a player that could make 4-5 other clones of them self wasn't frustrating enough when they can constantly go in and out of stealth and you have to re-target them and make sure you're not hitting a damn npc.

[Hadi.3167]

Mirage biggest problem is the constant access to breaking target. If fighting a player that could make 4-5 other clones of them self wasn't frustrating enough when they can constantly go in and out of stealth, now you have to re-target them and make sure you're not hitting a da mn npc.

[bravan.3876]

@Spartacus.3192 said:

@bravan.3876 said:when you consider revs can spam dodges a lot too and even have stunbreaks being a dodge,

Did you seriously compare Revs riposting shadows with Mirages Elusive Mind????

Riposting shadows costs 30 energy so a rev cant even chain 2 of those at start of fight (starts at 50 energy). At most he can do 3 dodges when full energy. Each use gives him 25 endurance back so he needs to do twice so that he can once dodge normally. BUT and here is the real difference. While he uses riposting shadows he can't hit you AND he is using the energy he needs to use his attack rotation so if he double riposting shadows he has nothing left but auto attack . While a mirage can still use all his attack rotation while in the middle of the dodge.

You're just embarrassing yourself with comments like this.

A mirage can't do more dodges tho what is your point? And who needs 2 stunbreaks in a row? The rev can do the same a mirage can do, stunbreak dodge out and than dodge chain with 2 other endurance dodges and a weaponskill. I also compare it to dodge while stunned what is the topic and not to the stunbreak on dodge, what i said already should get removed. A mirage can't use any other skills except instant skills and stunbreaks, just like every other class while stunned. Read the topic and start your brain before posting pls, ty. I said no need to cry about being able to dodge during still being stunned when a rev literally can stunbreak-dodge. for what mirage needs elusive mind for.

[Math.5123]

@Zawn.9647 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:I know it, I don't want it changed, I've never tried playing mirage.Control skills still serve their purpose. In the case of mirage, getting stunned forces the player to either eat the damage as usual or spend the important resource (endurance).

In other cases, you stun the enemy then you use your burst skills. If the enemy dodges your stun, they waste their endurance, and you still have your burst cooldowns.

In Mirage's case, you stun her, then you have 2 choices;

• Use your burst and watch it getting dodged
• Save your burst and by the time Cloak ends your stun will end too so watch Mirage counter-pressure you and kill you

I may get hate for this, but if only Elusive Mind allowed Mirage to dodge while stunned and Exhaustion was removed...

Well, the players might want to learn to play a bit differently and save up their big burst for later? The perceived OPness of mirage cloak also makes mirages predictable: you know they are very likely to dodge when stunned.Professions (and specializations) are not equal, diversity is good.

Yeah diversity is really good when only 1 spec gets this absurd stuff like dodging to remove stun :)Let me dodge to remove condi thenLet guardians dodge to heal

lol...

Mesmers gets a Condi clear on EM and guardians ( and mesmer already has heal on dodge).

[Rufo.3716]

But this mechanic works well in PvE so it won't be changed.

[Zawn.9647]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Zawn.9647 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:I know it, I don't want it changed, I've never tried playing mirage.Control skills still serve their purpose. In the case of mirage, getting stunned forces the player to either eat the damage as usual or spend the important resource (endurance).

In other cases, you stun the enemy then you use your burst skills. If the enemy dodges your stun, they waste their endurance, and you still have your burst cooldowns.

In Mirage's case, you stun her, then you have 2 choices;

• Use your burst and watch it getting dodged
• Save your burst and by the time Cloak ends your stun will end too so watch Mirage counter-pressure you and kill you

I may get hate for this, but if only Elusive Mind allowed Mirage to dodge while stunned and Exhaustion was removed...

Well, the players might want to learn to play a bit differently and save up their big burst for later? The perceived OPness of mirage cloak also makes mirages predictable: you know they are very likely to dodge when stunned.Professions (and specializations) are not equal, diversity is good.

Yeah diversity is really good when only 1 spec gets this absurd stuff like dodging to remove stun :)Let me dodge to remove condi thenLet guardians dodge to heal

lol...

Mesmers gets a Condi clear on EM and guardians ( and mesmer already has heal on dodge).

so mesmers get condi clear and stun break. sounds balanced :)

[Tact.8063]

@Toron.4856 said:

@"Airdive.2613" said:I know it, I don't want it changed, I've never tried playing mirage.Control skills still serve their purpose. In the case of mirage, getting stunned forces the player to either eat the damage as usual or spend the important resource (endurance).

Any other class than mirage has to spend the important resource (endurance) AND make sure to DODGE IN TIME.

Why does mirage ONLY have to spend endurance WITHOUT dodging in time?

Cmon man.. What a bad argument.

Its not about using endurance its about "being good at the game". If you are not good enough to dodge correctly you should be punished as you are, unless you play mirage.

as a mirage main who DONT use the trait i say chage it i dont care really but do what to answer your questionwhy does mirage ONLY HAVE to spand endurance without dodging in time ??well because he took that traiet over other trait that give wayyyyy increase to damage boost like ifienet horizon and dune cloak

i am sure when ELUSIVE MIND Is nerfred you will cry about people useing ifienet horizon and dune cloak

mirage overall has taken a LOT of damage nerf any futher damage nerf will kill the play style, i am fine with elusive cloak being changed completly but i swear if you cry one more time to mirage........

[Megametzler.5729]

@Tact.8063 said:

@Toron.4856 said:

@"Airdive.2613" said:I know it, I don't want it changed, I've never tried playing mirage.Control skills still serve their purpose. In the case of mirage, getting stunned forces the player to either eat the damage as usual or spend the important resource (endurance).

Any other class than mirage has to spend the important resource (endurance) AND make sure to DODGE IN TIME.

Why does mirage ONLY have to spend endurance WITHOUT dodging in time?

Cmon man.. What a bad argument.

Its not about using endurance its about "being good at the game". If you are not good enough to dodge correctly you should be punished as you are, unless you play mirage.

as a mirage main who DONT use the trait i say chage it i dont care really but do what to answer your questionwhy does mirage ONLY HAVE to spand endurance without dodging in time ??well because he took that traiet over other trait that give wayyyyy increase to damage boost like ifienet horizon and dune cloak

i am sure when ELUSIVE MIND Is nerfred you will cry about people useing ifienet horizon and dune cloak

mirage overall has taken a LOT of damage nerf any futher damage nerf will kill the play style, i am fine with elusive cloak being changed completly but i swear if you cry one more time to mirage........

Actually, this thread is not really about EM. I think. Even non-traited, mirage can dodge while being stunned and immobilized, breaking the whole concept of setting up a secured burst somehow. That is a huge issue with a lot of classes, which makes mirage (almost) broken by design, dodge has a way too low CD for this. They would need significant downsides on the other hand if you'd ever want to drive them out of the meta with this ability.

Due to this ability, they basically hardcounter a lot of other classes. Since I am currently trolling people with my full zerker shatter chronomancer, mirages are absolutely unkillable. Not because they are good - but they can dodge almost anything I throw at them.

But yeah, powercreep is making mirage not completely godtier. At least, not anymore. 12s CD block with unblockable interrupt afterwards would've been ridiculous in the core game.

[Toron.4856]

@Tact.8063 said:

@Toron.4856 said:

@"Airdive.2613" said:I know it, I don't want it changed, I've never tried playing mirage.Control skills still serve their purpose. In the case of mirage, getting stunned forces the player to either eat the damage as usual or spend the important resource (endurance).

Any other class than mirage has to spend the important resource (endurance) AND make sure to DODGE IN TIME.

Why does mirage ONLY have to spend endurance WITHOUT dodging in time?

Cmon man.. What a bad argument.

Its not about using endurance its about "being good at the game". If you are not good enough to dodge correctly you should be punished as you are, unless you play mirage.

as a mirage main who DONT use the trait i say chage it i dont care really but do what to answer your questionwhy does mirage ONLY HAVE to spand endurance without dodging in time ??well because he took that traiet over other trait that give wayyyyy increase to damage boost like ifienet horizon and dune cloak

i am sure when ELUSIVE MIND Is nerfred you will cry about people useing ifienet horizon and dune cloak

mirage overall has taken a LOT of damage nerf any futher damage nerf will kill the play style, i am fine with elusive cloak being changed completly but i swear if you cry one more time to mirage........

you just confirmed that you did not read my post and instantly started your " mirage is not op l2p " rant.

i do not complain about elusive mind. i complain about the fact mirage can dodge while being stunned as the title of my post CLEARLY says.

elusive mind = break stunn on dodgemirage mechanic = dodging while being stunned

before going off on a person who made a post on the forums, take your time, read what the person says and then give some construvtive feedback pls.

thx

[BlackBeard.2873]

I agree with the OP, being able to dodge while stunned is already OP. It does two important things to distort the balance of a fight:

• Mirage doesn't have to take stunbreak utilities, allowing 1-shot mirages to just load up on damage without much risk
• Mirage doesn't need to use positioning, utilities, and dodges intelligently to avoid both CC's (to set up burst) and burst. Instead, CC is a complete non-issue and can be ignored. This makes mirages unaffected by both immobilize AND stuns/hard-CC's. They found out that making daredevil immune to immobilize was a LITTLE OP (OK, it was a LOT OP), then they made an even better version of it for the golden child class.

Mirage cloak is strong enough even if it couldn't work when stunned:

• It lasts 1s compared to 0.75s for a normal dodge (a 33% increase in effectiveness!!)
• It gives super-speed, enabling you to travel as far (or further thanks to the extra 0.25s) than a normal dodge.
• It allows offensive pressure while also going immune, whereas normal dodges mean a break in offensive pressure.
• It enables reactive invuln without interrupting other actions (ressing, stomping, etc).

If it was left at this, it would already be a significant upgrade to normal dodging (with the only downside of needing to get used to turning effectively if you want to go in a direction other than forward, which might feel clunky for a short time). By adding in CC-invulnerability...mirage dodge is basically the god-mode upgrade. I am surprised they didn't make mirage dodges also do 1-shot damage...I am sure it was at least pitched.