why does a-net hate elementalists exactly ? is it smt from gw1?

[sephiroth.4217]

@Aktium.9506 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:I was probably in WvW during the time it reigned supreme I guessProbably. Otherwise you'd remember a 4 Ele 1 Thief (started as a 5 Ele team) team winning an actual esports tournament. Hambow did a lot less damage then Cele D/D back then as well. They mainly generated might and spammed an ungodly amount(by the standard of that era anyway) of CC in teamfights. Turret Engi was also not a real problem either, it was just an obnoxious low effort build that required more time and effort to deal with compared to what it took to play it. Meanwhile Cele D/D was ever present in low levels of pvp up to the highest levels of the esports scene with its mixed bag of good sustain, good hybrid damage and relatively easy playstyle. And I don't think anyone who played Conquest during that time can forget how disgusting it became after they changed burning to stack in intensity and you could get ridiculous burning stacks by nudging the hitbox threshold of Ring of Fire when trying to fight inside it. Some of my absolute worst memories of this game is from that period of this game. Good times.

I remember the tourney and laughing at it, also remember the tears over ring of fire even though purging flames was left untouched.. Also remember cantrip might being gutted alongside it and the rest of it like casting in mist form but I personally never struggled against cele eles...

Probably was in WvW or being ele main gave me insight to weaknesses such as chill, CC and poison... I shouldnt say main actually because I play all builds but def in the top 4 most played

To me its the same as trap DH... gets the best of a lot of people so better off nerfing it.... Actually I struggled with DH traps more than cele ele, not so much the bow everyone else had trouble with but more so the people using all damage traps with damage amplifiers in weird places around the map, walk around and randomly get deleted, that was reeeeeeeeally annoying.

[Megametzler.5729]

DD ele was OP for only a couple of months. While I agree it was a pretty bad time - I switched to FA back then -, the main problem with it was the condi change to burning. That was in June, and in October the Addon was released.

Yeah, totally reasonable to not change anything on ele for a full year of PoF. :tongue:

[Emberheart.8426]

@Megametzler.5729 said:DD ele was OP for only a couple of months. While I agree it was a pretty bad time - I switched to FA back then -, the main problem with it was the condi change to burning. That was in June, and in October the Addon was released.

Yeah, totally reasonable to not change anything on ele for a full year of PoF. :tongue:

Let's see if this lasts for a full 2 years, or even worse until the next expansion. I'm waiting.

[Amaranthe.3578]

they are good in pvepvp balance doesnt matter

[NaturallyNick.4058]

They aren't even good in PvE any more. Just take a thief and have higher burst and more utility.

They're full glass cannon without the cannon.

[LazySummer.2568]

haha here we are getting the special spam folder treatment again while mirage, deadeye, necro threads stay in pvp forums. what an incredibly biased forum/balance team.

[supreme.3602]

Don't bother anymore. They don't care.

[fuzzyp.6295]

I don't think it has to do with hate or anything, in fact far from it. While it certainly seems from our point of view that Arena-Net has their pet classes (Mesmer), the reality is if they do care about balancing all the classes effectively. We have to remember that while we see things from out limited scope, ANet has access to much more information with regards to how Elementalist is actually preforming across all the game modes. And ANet isnt really a company that often likes to randomly straight buff or nerf skills. They often do adjustments, reducing cool downs but increasing aftercast and the like. Simply put, they are careful. At times perhaps too careful, but I think they'd rather ensure that a class is "good, but not great" over "too great so everyone needs to run this class" ala 2014-15 when the meta for PvP was literally 4 elementalists and a thief that was mentioned before.

Ele is also incredibly hard to balance due to its design of being a jack of trades class. Make one stat too strong and suddenly Ele is OP. I agree that Ele is lacking at the moment 100% and needs love because the game has moved on, but ANet is probably testing out solutions that can bring the ele back into the meta in all forms without losing its flavor. OR they could go for a complete redesign of the class ; but think of the blacklash that may incure? People who have spent 3000+ hours playing Ele might not really like the new changes and drop the game all together. It's a tough situation all around.

I'm not saying Arena-Net isn't dragging their heels on this because it certainly feels at times that they are. A lot of players have offered decent balance changes here on the forums that would be very effective and I wish we had more dialogue with the balance team. Or at the very least a message that Ele is on their radar for a deeper look for balance. But its not because of malice towards the class.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"fuzzyp.6295" said:I don't think it has to do with hate or anything, in fact far from it. While it certainly seems from our point of view that Arena-Net has their pet classes (Mesmer), the reality is if they do care about balancing all the classes effectively. We have to remember that while we see things from out limited scope, ANet has access to much more information with regards to how Elementalist is actually preforming across all the game modes. And ANet isnt really a company that often likes to randomly straight buff or nerf skills. They often do adjustments, reducing cool downs but increasing aftercast and the like. Simply put, they are careful. At times perhaps too careful, but I think they'd rather ensure that a class is "good, but not great" over "too great so everyone needs to run this class" ala 2014-15 when the meta for PvP was literally 4 elementalists and a thief that was mentioned before.

Ele is also incredibly hard to balance due to its design of being a jack of trades class. Make one stat too strong and suddenly Ele is OP. I agree that Ele is lacking at the moment 100% and needs love because the game has moved on, but ANet is probably testing out solutions that can bring the ele back into the meta in all forms without losing its flavor. OR they could go for a complete redesign of the class ; but think of the blacklash that may incure? People who have spent 3000+ hours playing Ele might not really like the new changes and drop the game all together. It's a tough situation all around.

I'm not saying Arena-Net isn't dragging their heels on this because it certainly feels at times that they are. A lot of players have offered decent balance changes here on the forums that would be very effective and I wish we had more dialogue with the balance team. Or at the very least a message that Ele is on their radar for a deeper look for balance. But its not because of malice towards the class.

Nobody asked them to drop the GW1 concept for elementalists! Every ele player loved it but the devs in their immense arrogance ..they went and tried to reinvent the wheel...and they fucked up royally, they received warnings way before GW2 launch during QA events and after both BWE in July and August 2012, now they expect the players to "pay" the bill.

They designed this class to be the squishiest in the game and in their immense gameplay knowledge they gave them focus on melee combat with raw healing as its only form of defense , which has been placed under the nerfhammer at every turn for the last 6 years

[Tom Hsiao.9705]

Wow people need to read what he is saying before respond seriously lol!!! He said he enjoyed staff and all I see is celes d/d was supreme smh. But seriously why on earth play a mage class if you gonna use d/d go melee??? There are soooo many melee class out there already. The whole weaver concept with sword is just stupid imho.

I agree staff skill are like jokes and doesn’t matter ele got access to more skills or not if the skill stinks you can give them 500x more skills and it won’t matter lol!!

Fire 2 place on the ground and monster charge at you, so to get the full on fire 2 you gotta face tank the mobs by standing still and same goes to the rest of the long casting skills... it would make much more sense if ele got some kind of permanent pet/summon to tank for them while they sit back and cast, I think dev should learn something from black desert online’s wizard or witch if they really want elementalist to go close combat.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

Idk but when you make a class mechanic essentially it's weapon skills, it makes it really hard to make elite specs for said class. The only real options would be to change how core weapons work with elite specs, like new skills or new elements when using the spec. The only problem is that this requires a lot of work (as well as traits are attunement specific so new attunements still wouldn't work) and we know ANET abandons every idea that takes work. So instead they cheap out with things like tempest and weaver which are just slow ele and fast ele. This messes with balance of core skills which is even a bigger problem. Now were stuck in a balance mess because both weaver, tempest, and core ele can't be viable at the same time because of the nature of one just being a faster version of the other, which results in more dps. They nerf core to keep weaver balanced and in demand so people keep buying pof.

I sorta view it very cut and dry. Anet painted themeselves in a corner with the design of some classes and a complete overhaul is, in my mind, the only way to achieve balance that is both effective and fun. Otherwise we'll be stuck with very gimmicky builds that are only viable from a numbers standpoint. One example is renegade which has really high dps marks for raids and against stationary foes, but ultimately doesn't fair well in actual combat scenerios. Its summons are non threatening to things that move out of them or cc them, and there lacks any escape or defense otions for condi builds without sacrificing half a build. Similarly would be core necro, though I'm not well versed enough to talk about that.

[steki.1478]

@Tom Hsiao.9705 said:Wow people need to read what he is saying before respond seriously lol!!! He said he enjoyed staff and all I see is celes d/d was supreme smh. But seriously why on earth play a mage class if you gonna use d/d go melee??? There are soooo many melee class out there already. The whole weaver concept with sword is just stupid imho.

Because the whole point of elite spec is to play the class in a different way. Class is also not called mage, it's called elementalist. It can control elements from 1200 range, 900 range or 300 range. It doesnt make the class melee nor does it make it ranged. There's just different options to play the same class.

With same logic you can say that there's too many MMO's with mages out there so why play gw2 when you can play something else?

[Derkon.7408]

That is precisely the opposite question I asked my self, and I changed game. x)

[Megametzler.5729]

@steki.1478 said:

@Tom Hsiao.9705 said:Wow people need to read what he is saying before respond seriously lol!!! He said he enjoyed staff and all I see is celes d/d was supreme smh. But seriously why on earth play a mage class if you gonna use d/d go melee??? There are soooo many melee class out there already. The whole weaver concept with sword is just stupid imho.

Because the whole point of elite spec is to play the class in a different way. Class is also not called mage, it's called elementalist. It can control elements from 1200 range, 900 range or 300 range. It doesnt make the class melee nor does it make it ranged. There's just different options to play the same class.

With same logic you can say that there's too many MMO's with mages out there so why play gw2 when you can play something else?

I agree. I love the concept of a close combat elementalist. It used to be very refreshing and exciting and was my very first class I focused on when I started playing and I still like it. In PVP it is not as much fun anymore, but in PVE and WvW it's still nice. There are no bigger flaws with the concept, they just have to put some more effort into it.

Close combat ele, ranged warrior, condi ranger and direct damage necromancer - GW2 makes it all kind of possible which is great and really refreshing. I don't want them to get rid of this concept, I just want them to put more effort in the smaller balancing issues. :smile:

[Emberheart.8426]

It's amusing to see people arguing about melee and ranged elementalist when both of them are severely underperforming for the purposes of this thread, which are PvP and roaming in WvW. It doesn't matter what weapon you want to use, the tools that are needed to be effective are not available either way.

[Dace.8173]

@steki.1478 said:

@Tom Hsiao.9705 said:Wow people need to read what he is saying before respond seriously lol!!! He said he enjoyed staff and all I see is celes d/d was supreme smh. But seriously why on earth play a mage class if you gonna use d/d go melee??? There are soooo many melee class out there already. The whole weaver concept with sword is just stupid imho.

Because the whole point of elite spec is to play the class in a different way. Class is also not called mage, it's called elementalist. It can control elements from 1200 range, 900 range or 300 range. It doesnt make the class melee nor does it make it ranged. There's just different options to play the same class.

With same logic you can say that there's too many MMO's with mages out there so why play gw2 when you can play something else?

Yeah, I don't get the hate for D/D when all things considered the overwhelming majority of weapons that Elementalist has are ranged attacks. Even D/D has ranged elements. I happen to find Weaver to be fun.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Dace.8173 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Tom Hsiao.9705 said:Wow people need to read what he is saying before respond seriously lol!!! He said he enjoyed staff and all I see is celes d/d was supreme smh. But seriously why on earth play a mage class if you gonna use d/d go melee??? There are soooo many melee class out there already. The whole weaver concept with sword is just stupid imho.

Because the whole point of elite spec is to play the class in a different way. Class is also not called mage, it's called elementalist. It can control elements from 1200 range, 900 range or 300 range. It doesnt make the class melee nor does it make it ranged. There's just different options to play the same class.

With same logic you can say that there's too many MMO's with mages out there so why play gw2 when you can play something else?

Yeah, I don't get the hate for D/D when all things considered the overwhelming majority of weapons that Elementalist has are ranged attacks. Even D/D has ranged elements. I happen to find Weaver to be fun.

Everything is fun to use ...in PvE, people are asking for ele to be actually usable in pvp ...

[Dace.8173]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Tom Hsiao.9705 said:Wow people need to read what he is saying before respond seriously lol!!! He said he enjoyed staff and all I see is celes d/d was supreme smh. But seriously why on earth play a mage class if you gonna use d/d go melee??? There are soooo many melee class out there already. The whole weaver concept with sword is just stupid imho.

Because the whole point of elite spec is to play the class in a different way. Class is also not called mage, it's called elementalist. It can control elements from 1200 range, 900 range or 300 range. It doesnt make the class melee nor does it make it ranged. There's just different options to play the same class.

With same logic you can say that there's too many MMO's with mages out there so why play gw2 when you can play something else?

Yeah, I don't get the hate for D/D when all things considered the overwhelming majority of weapons that Elementalist has are ranged attacks. Even D/D has ranged elements. I happen to find Weaver to be fun.

Everything is fun to use ...

in PvE

, people are asking for ele to be actually usable in pvp ...

I don't play Weaver in PvE. I play it in PvP and WvW. It is still fun and as far as I'm concerned usable. Right now, I play Tempest in PvE (D/D if anyone cares to know).

[Arheundel.6451]

@Dace.8173 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Tom Hsiao.9705 said:Wow people need to read what he is saying before respond seriously lol!!! He said he enjoyed staff and all I see is celes d/d was supreme smh. But seriously why on earth play a mage class if you gonna use d/d go melee??? There are soooo many melee class out there already. The whole weaver concept with sword is just stupid imho.

Because the whole point of elite spec is to play the class in a different way. Class is also not called mage, it's called elementalist. It can control elements from 1200 range, 900 range or 300 range. It doesnt make the class melee nor does it make it ranged. There's just different options to play the same class.

With same logic you can say that there's too many MMO's with mages out there so why play gw2 when you can play something else?

Yeah, I don't get the hate for D/D when all things considered the overwhelming majority of weapons that Elementalist has are ranged attacks. Even D/D has ranged elements. I happen to find Weaver to be fun.

Everything is fun to use ...

in PvE

, people are asking for ele to be actually usable in pvp ...

I don't play Weaver in PvE. I play it in PvP and WvW. It is still fun and as far as I'm concerned usable. Right now, I play Tempest in PvE (D/D if anyone cares to know).

I see plenty of mender weavers s/d..you can't kill any above average player, stall them at most and kill possibly the worst players out there. Don't you see the problem here?...plenty of mender weaver s/d, same amulet, same traits and same build which only repeat what ele has been doing for the last 6 years : a class devoid of any proper defensive mechanic that rely entirely on heal burst to stay alive more than 2s but will fall flat against any competent player.

What kind of design is that? Slap a healing amulet and call it a day, at most you're an annoyance never an actual threat

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Dace.8173 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Tom Hsiao.9705 said:Wow people need to read what he is saying before respond seriously lol!!! He said he enjoyed staff and all I see is celes d/d was supreme smh. But seriously why on earth play a mage class if you gonna use d/d go melee??? There are soooo many melee class out there already. The whole weaver concept with sword is just stupid imho.

Because the whole point of elite spec is to play the class in a different way. Class is also not called mage, it's called elementalist. It can control elements from 1200 range, 900 range or 300 range. It doesnt make the class melee nor does it make it ranged. There's just different options to play the same class.

With same logic you can say that there's too many MMO's with mages out there so why play gw2 when you can play something else?

Yeah, I don't get the hate for D/D when all things considered the overwhelming majority of weapons that Elementalist has are ranged attacks. Even D/D has ranged elements. I happen to find Weaver to be fun.

Everything is fun to use ...

in PvE

, people are asking for ele to be actually usable in pvp ...

I don't play Weaver in PvE. I play it in PvP and WvW. It is still fun and as far as I'm concerned usable. Right now, I play Tempest in PvE (D/D if anyone cares to know).

Mender amulet

+1050 Power Power+560 Precision Precision+560 Vitality Vitality+1050 Healing Power

You need 1610(!) stats in healing and health to make a single sustain build viable, useless for all other specs and builds for ele. Describes the problem perfectly. Note also part of weavers build requires condy dmg. 0 condy, 0 Ferocity, 0 toughness.