Elusive Mind Needs Some Love

[spectrito.8513]

Make mirage unable to use mirage cloak when cc'edrevert changes on EM and put a 10 sec ICD

[SteepledHat.1345]

Nerf mirage until it's unviable. That's all we'll accept.

[BeLZedaR.4790]

EM is a badly designed trait. Doesn't need unnerf, just a redesign.Something like this would work:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Don't allow Mirage to dodge while cc'd

Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion from EM, increase condi clear to 2 per dodge or add 20% cdr on deception skills

[apharma.3741]

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:EM is a badly designed trait. Doesn't need unnerf, just a redesign.Something like this would work:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Don't allow Mirage to dodge while cc'd

Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion from EM, increase condi clear to 2 per dodge or add 20% cdr on deception skills

The funny thing is this was suggested very rapidly in the mesmer forum shortly after PoF though without the deception skills CDR, really it doesn't need more power creep, 2 conditions cleansed would be insanely good for power mirage. Also Shadowpass if I remember correctly was advocating some pretty heavy handed nerfs to mirage and EM at that time. He seems to have seen the error of his ways.

[shadowpass.4236]

@apharma.3741 said:

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:EM is a badly designed trait. Doesn't need unnerf, just a redesign.Something like this would work:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Don't allow Mirage to dodge while cc'd

Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion from EM, increase condi clear to 2 per dodge or add 20% cdr on deception skills

The funny thing is this was suggested very rapidly in the mesmer forum shortly after PoF though without the deception skills CDR, really it doesn't need more power creep, 2 conditions cleansed would be insanely good for power mirage. Also Shadowpass if I remember correctly was advocating some pretty heavy handed nerfs to mirage and EM at that time. He seems to have seen the error of his ways.

My suggestions haven't changed. I've been arguing the same changes since PoF came out. However, people have stopped using EM due to the exhaustion, so they're more receptive to it getting reworked than they used to be.

I've always said that Mirage should never have been able to dodge/stunbreak on dodge. Remove those mechanics, the exhaustion from EM, and give it a little extra to make up for it.

Also, Mirage still needs more nerfs. However, so do Boonbeast, Holosmith, and many other classes.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Being able to evade while CCed is inherently broken so

@shadowpass.4236 said:Don't allow Mirage to dodge while cc'd

Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion from EM, increase condi clear to 2 per dodge or add 20% cdr on deception skills

Is the correct action to take.

It's impossible to gauge how balanced Mirage is until this nonsense is addressed. IMO this should be the only change Mesmers get next balance patch.

[Devilman.1532]

and the MESEMERLOLTRAIN rolls on... don't you guys get it? Its what they consider their "signature class" that many of the Devs play. It will never be razed tot he ground like other classes int he history of this game have been and to a degree still are.

[Vieux P.1238]

@"Devilman.1532" said:and the MESEMERLOLTRAIN rolls on... don't you guys get it? Its what they consider their "signature class" that many of the Devs play. It will never be razed tot he ground like other classes int he history of this game have been and to a degree still are.

Arent you the guy playing Broken passives Holo?

[mortrialus.3062]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@"Devilman.1532" said:and the MESEMERLOLTRAIN rolls on... don't you guys get it? Its what they consider their "signature class" that many of the Devs play. It will never be razed tot he ground like other classes int he history of this game have been and to a degree still are.

Arent you the guy playing Broken passives Holo?

Holo currently has 5 times the top 250 representation as mirage in NA but apparently it's still the mirage train somehow. Even when playing what is objectively the best, highest performing, highest impact build he's still whining about mesmers.

[Blue.1207]

Haha haha. Good joke. Elusive Mind needs a 18 second ICD Added to it.

Still a meme in the balance world. Trait never should have existed.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@Blue.1207 said:Haha haha. Good joke. Elusive Mind needs a 18 second ICD Added to it.

Still a meme in the balance world. Trait never should have existed.If not count they were asked to change it during beta ...And why 18 seconds icd? why not 10? Why not 15? Why not 20 or 30 ? What led you to this number ?

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@"Devilman.1532" said:and the MESEMERLOLTRAIN rolls on... don't you guys get it? Its what they consider their "signature class" that many of the Devs play. It will never be razed tot he ground like other classes int he history of this game have been and to a degree still are.

Arent you the guy playing Broken passives Holo?

Holo currently has 5 times the top 250 representation as mirage in NA but apparently it's still the mirage train somehow. Even when playing what is objectively the best, highest performing, highest impact build he's still whining about mesmers.

Unrelated but Holo is busted yet for much more obvious and easily fixed reasons than mirage. The entirety of yolosmiths problems can be traced to the hilariously massive overbuff given to Elixer U on the July 2018 balance patch, which more and more Engie players have started to fully understand how to exploit in the past two months. The skill combined with traits and boon duration is 10s of 2 stab stacks, stunbreak, 18 seconds of quickness, 12s vigor 20s might, all on a 30s recharge -oh and the TB part is AoE. The skill could legit be elite and I would still take it on my holo 100% not even joking this thing is cray.

You could give a random buff like that to any other utility skill on any other class and the class would become busted for the same reason.

All the balance team has to do is revert that one skill and Holosmith is probably balanced.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@"Devilman.1532" said:and the MESEMERLOLTRAIN rolls on... don't you guys get it? Its what they consider their "signature class" that many of the Devs play. It will never be razed tot he ground like other classes int he history of this game have been and to a degree still are.

Arent you the guy playing Broken passives Holo?

Holo currently has 5 times the top 250 representation as mirage in NA but apparently it's still the mirage train somehow. Even when playing what is objectively the best, highest performing, highest impact build he's still whining about mesmers.

Unrelated but Holo is busted yet for much more obvious and easily fixed reasons than mirage. The entirety of yolosmiths problems can be traced to the hilariously massive overbuff given to Elixer U on the July 2018 balance patch, which more and more Engie players have started to fully understand how to exploit in the past two months. The skill combined with traits and boon duration is 10s of 2 stab stacks, stunbreak, 18 seconds of quickness, 12s vigor 20s might, all on a 30s recharge -oh and the TB part is AoE. The skill could legit be elite and I would still take it on my holo 100% not even joking this thing is cray.

You could give a random buff like that to any other utility skill on any other class and the class would become busted for the same reason.

All the balance team has to do is revert that one skill and Holosmith is probably balanced.

Nah. The Elixir traitline combined with the Holosmith line give the build far, far too much survivability and sustain for a build that's supposed to be so high risk high reward it's in danger of blowing itself up.

[BadMed.3846]

The window of opportunity to attack a Condi mirage is very brief. Yet their ability to apply conditions is endless. Big nerfs needed to fix this mess.

[Blue.1207]

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Blue.1207 said:Haha haha. Good joke. Elusive Mind needs a 18 second ICD Added to it.

Still a meme in the balance world. Trait never should have existed.If not count they were asked to change it during beta ...And why 18 seconds icd? why not 10? Why not 15? Why not 20 or 30 ? What led you to this number ?

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Blue.1207 said:Haha haha. Good joke. Elusive Mind needs a 18 second ICD Added to it.

Still a meme in the balance world. Trait never should have existed.If not count they were asked to change it during beta ...And why 18 seconds icd? why not 10? Why not 15? Why not 20 or 30 ? What led you to this number ?

Same time as sigil of annulment, arguably the best sigil in this boonspam fiesta.

Or maybe I just really like the number 8 and wanted to further dunk on mirage by adding 10 to it.

[Susy.7529]

Ahahahahah NO!You got what you deserved for being literally a god class in PvP, imho you should be nerfed even more since Mirage is still too OP.

[reikken.4961]

it mightbut a lot of other things are in much greater need

[reikken.4961]

As a side note, mirages running IH over EM makes them a lot harder to fight with a condi necro. Clones evading means putrid mark is no longer a guaranteed condi cleanse.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@Blue.1207 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Blue.1207 said:Haha haha. Good joke. Elusive Mind needs a 18 second ICD Added to it.

Still a meme in the balance world. Trait never should have existed.If not count they were asked to change it during beta ...And why 18 seconds icd? why not 10? Why not 15? Why not 20 or 30 ? What led you to this number ?

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Blue.1207 said:Haha haha. Good joke. Elusive Mind needs a 18 second ICD Added to it.

Still a meme in the balance world. Trait never should have existed.If not count they were asked to change it during beta ...And why 18 seconds icd? why not 10? Why not 15? Why not 20 or 30 ? What led you to this number ?

Same time as sigil of annulment, arguably the best sigil in this boonspam fiesta.

Or maybe I just really like the number 8 and wanted to further dunk on mirage by adding 10 to it.

Valid reason to add exactly 18 ICD ! I approve!

@Susy.7529 said:Ahahahahah NO!You got what you deserved for being literally a god class in PvP, imho you should be nerfed even more since Mirage is still too OP.

Actually all of you got what YOU deserve with your tears . IH mirage xD

[otto.5684]

@shadowpass.4236 said:Don't allow Mirage to dodge while cc'd

Remove the stunbreak and exhaustion from EM, increase condi clear to 2 per dodge or add 20% cdr on deception skills

This is a good suggestion. Currently EM is obsolete.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"tinyreborn.1938" said:Actually all of you got what YOU deserve with your tears . IH mirage xD

"Lmao, these people we are steamrolling in pvp don't know exactly why we are overpowered, so now we will be even more overpowered than before by just ignoring the trait that got nerfed."

[tinyreborn.1938]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"tinyreborn.1938" said:Actually all of you got what YOU deserve with your tears . IH mirage xD

"Lmao, these people we are steamrolling in pvp don't know

exactly why

we are overpowered, so now we will be even more overpowered than before by just ignoring the trait that got nerfed."

Cry more <3That will help xDAlso pretty sure Mirage is OP for same reason as other 'OP' specs.I'm alrdy fed up with all those tears everywhere . Only reason they still nerfing mesmer to hush all those average silver2 players that make threads about how OP 2 chronos ...

[Safandula.8723]

Tbh, this trait, and mirage cloak, should never exist xd

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Cry more <3That will help xD

Obviously it won't, but showing people who try to justify pulling matchup wins on autopilot their own logic is therapeutic.

@"tinyreborn.1938" said:Also pretty sure Mirage is OP for same reason as other 'OP' specs.

"I'm aware that Mirage being busted is now even more obvious than it was before, because now people are forced to slot Infinite Horizon instead of EM (and still be able to dodge while stunned whenever they choose), but I'm going to immediately ignore that and just claim people are whining because of l2p issues."

Pick one or the other. Either you think its a L2P issue, or you're aware being able to dodge bursts after getting stunned, on a class that already has tricks to shift and drop targets without committing anything more than endurance is too much and yet you would rather it stay like that.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Cry more <3That will help xD

Obviously it won't, but showing people who try to justify pulling matchup wins on autopilot their own logic is therapeutic.

@"tinyreborn.1938" said:Also pretty sure Mirage is OP for same reason as other 'OP' specs.

"I'm aware that Mirage being busted is now even more obvious than it was before, because now people are forced to slot Infinite Horizon instead of EM (and still be able to dodge while stunned whenever they choose), but I'm going to immediately ignore that and just claim people are whining because of l2p issues."

Pick one or the other. Either you think its a L2P issue, or you're aware being able to dodge bursts after getting stunned , on a class that already has tricks to shift and drop targets without committing anything more than endurance

(Wootofok u talking about here?)

is too much and yet you would rather it stay like that.

Actually right now I will say its clearly L2P issue . Just as braendaed logic of our beloved thieves (unhonorable mentions mr.crabs) and facerollsmith protectors(countless amount of them) I will defy any logic and all arguments . If they can do that ,why I cant?:DAlso truth be told , all other classess are not less broken than mirage. If look at LB there is only few mesmers wage war against those revenant exploiters! Poor Flanby... xDALSO since when mirage even more broken than before? After all those nerfs its way weaker than its used to be by a lot . Before mirage could play sword torch staff and now if you play it you dont do any pressure and cant 1x1 anything . May be you are right, all nerfs made mirage stronger... Can we do the same with other overperforming classes? Make them busted via nerfs! You made my day lad