Living World Access To New Players

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

One reason could be that if they offered Living Story Bundles at purchase, instead of laments about not knowing they could be purchased, the laments would be that ArenaNet didn't inform 'new/returning' players that they were available at no cost in-game via the Gold-to-Gem exchange, and 'forced' them to pay more money than they had to.
Might just exchange one set of feedback for another.

[Super Hayes.6890]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:One reason could be that if they offered Living Story Bundles at purchase, instead of laments about not knowing they could be purchased, the laments would be that ArenaNet didn't inform 'new/returning' players that they were available at no cost in-game via the Gold-to-Gem exchange, and 'forced' them to pay more money than they had to.

Might just exchange one set of feedback for another.

You're not wrong sadly

[CazzT.1870]

On top of all the issues I've had as a returning player (took me almost a week to even get the PoF purchase to go through, as just one of several issues i've had), I run into one of the most bizarre experiences I've ever encountered.

So imagine this.... You pick up an MMO, which boasts about its ongoing story and deep lore. "Awesome! I love that stuff!" you think. So you pick up the game and the current expansion and jump in. You progress through the story, you're enjoying it, and suddenly.... you have to jump clear through to Chapter 5 of the second book?! Why? Why is Living World not part of the purchase when you buy the expansion?! This is something I've watched GW2 boast about for several years now. And I can't even properly experience it with out shelling out MORE cash? This sort of decision will be a sour surprise for both new and returning players.

Imagine not being allowed to read the first half of a book you've bought, but you can read a few chapters in the middle of the book. Want to read those early chapters? Gotta buy each one separately!

Maybe I should listen to all the bad experiences and surprises I've had during the past week and walk away....

[jokke.6239]

I disagree.I think a lot of people take for granted how generous Arena Net are.You get a AAA MMORPG with 2 expansions (that many payed full price for (120$) for 30$.They offer you to get the episodes for free if you're online, if you're not 2,5$ for a 1-2 hour story with lots of replayablity with meta's and achievements + rewards is a steal for 2,5$ .. AND you can get it for "free" by playing the game.They have to make a profit somehow, they already allow us to play the game just with the box cost. You don't have to pay anything after the initial purchase prices of expansions. If you don't want to grind for the episodes, the price is already more than fair, and they even go on sale.

[CazzT.1870]

@"jokke.6239" said:I disagree.I think a lot of people take for granted how generous Arena Net are.You get a AAA MMORPG with 2 expansions (that many payed full price for (120$) for 30$.They offer you to get the episodes for free if you're online, if you're not 2,5$ for a 1-2 hour story with lots of replayablity with meta's and achievements + rewards is a steal for 2,5$ .. AND you can get it for "free" by playing the game.They have to make a profit somehow, they already allow us to play the game just with the box cost. You don't have to pay anything after the initial purchase prices of expansions. If you don't want to grind for the episodes, the price is already more than fair, and they even go on sale.If it was clear, up front, that you're not getting all of the story when you buy the upgrade, then I would be more inclined to say you have a valid point. But they don't. Not only that, you can't even experience all of the story as LWS1 is no longer playable. That's like publishing a book series, but only the people who bought Book 1 during the first three months ever get to read the whole book, and everyone else has to settle for the summary, because every copy of Book 1 has turned to ashes and been deleted from all forms media.

If offering LW seasons as part of the upgrade is going to cause ANET to shut down GW2, then it's already too late and ANET is already filing bankruptcy paperwork. This is not where they're making their money.

Imagine if you bought Skyrim today and you weren't able to start at Helgen, but instead you had to start at the quest after getting Dragonrend. Want to play the story before that? Too bad, but here's a summary! Oh, but we'll sell you this package that lets you play the Civil War story arc, even though it ties heavily to the main story and should be included. You don't "need" it, but it will certainly make the story make more sense.

With the current state of things, new and returning players will be discouraged from sticking around. Which means even less money in ANET's pocket. I'm not advocating the removal of the cash shop entirely. I'm just saying that certain things should never be hobbled like they've done with LW.

[slayerking.3581]

@"jokke.6239" said:I disagree.I think a lot of people take for granted how generous Arena Net are.You get a AAA MMORPG with 2 expansions (that many payed full price for (120$) for 30$.They offer you to get the episodes for free if you're online, if you're not 2,5$ for a 1-2 hour story with lots of replayablity with meta's and achievements + rewards is a steal for 2,5$ .. AND you can get it for "free" by playing the game.They have to make a profit somehow, they already allow us to play the game just with the box cost. You don't have to pay anything after the initial purchase prices of expansions. If you don't want to grind for the episodes, the price is already more than fair, and they even go on sale.

Disagree all you want.

If you bought the game "Today" how were you supposed to be online to get it for free? I stupidly bought a copy of the game for my son so he could play with me($120 AUD). Fact is unless I played the stock standard game he couldn't play with me and absolutely NO WAY was I going to fork out more money when I just paid for a full game and expansion. Needless to say he stopped playing after he realised he couldn't play where I was.If you buy the game TODAY you should get all content available and from then on of course the normal log in to get it free.They make a huge profit on skins and crap not to mention all those gems on the trading post, someone paid for those or they wouldn't be there.

[jokke.6239]

@slayerking.3581 said:

@"jokke.6239" said:I disagree.I think a lot of people take for granted how generous Arena Net are.You get a AAA MMORPG with 2 expansions (that many payed full price for (120$) for 30$.They offer you to get the episodes for free if you're online, if you're not 2,5$ for a 1-2 hour story with lots of replayablity with meta's and achievements + rewards is a steal for 2,5$ .. AND you can get it for "free" by playing the game.They have to make a profit somehow, they already allow us to play the game just with the box cost. You don't have to pay anything after the initial purchase prices of expansions. If you don't want to grind for the episodes, the price is already more than fair, and they even go on sale.

Disagree all you want.

If you bought the game "Today" how were you supposed to be online to get it for free? I stupidly bought a copy of the game for my son so he could play with me($120 AUD). Fact is unless I played the stock standard game he couldn't play with me and absolutely NO WAY was I going to fork out more money when I just paid for a full game and expansion. Needless to say he stopped playing after he realised he couldn't play where I was.If you buy the game TODAY you should get all content available and from then on of course the normal log in to get it free.They make a huge profit on skins and kitten not to mention all those gems on the trading post, someone paid for those or they wouldn't be there.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I play a lot of games, I don't main Guild Wars 2, in fact just returned after 3 years. I had no problem buying the episodes, they were well worth the money.If you buy a AAA game you have to pay 60$ + 30-50$ for the full experience.FFXIV and WoW has box cost+ expansion + sub fee + microtransactions (that you can't earn in-game).I hope you're right that Arena Net are making tons of profit, but fact is that they could stretch the limits a lot more than they do.People who become gold rich in the game has no reason to buy gems other than support Arena Net, since you can get everything for free except expansions. They could easily try and monitize players more, but they don't. The value you get for the price is insane compared to the competition.I agree that they could be more clear when you purchased the game, and offer some kind of bundle though.

[CazzT.1870]

@jokke.6239 said:FFXIV and WoW has box cost+ expansion + sub fee + microtransactions (that you can't earn in-game).FFXIV and WoW also don't gate past content behind a separate purchase. You buy the current expansion, you get the whole game. This is not the case with GW2. And that will be a deterrent for many people.In the case of WoW, a lot of old content was changed/removed with Cataclysm. And that's still a sore spot for some. But other than that, all the content is still there, it hasn't been removed. FFXIV:ARR has not had any of its main story removed (they are trimming needless filler with 5.3, but they're not removing anything important like LWS1 has in it).

[jokke.6239]

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:FFXIV and WoW has box cost+ expansion + sub fee + microtransactions (that you can't earn in-game).FFXIV and WoW also don't gate past content behind a separate purchase. You buy the current expansion, you get the whole game. This is not the case with GW2. And that will be a deterrent for many people.In the case of WoW, a lot of old content was changed/removed with Cataclysm. And that's still a sore spot for some. But other than that, all the content is still there, it hasn't been removed. FFXIV:ARR has not had any of its main story removed (they are trimming needless filler with 5.3, but they're not removing anything important like LWS1 has in it).

No.. they gate all content behind a seperate purchase, every monthAnd GW2 doesn't gate anything behind a purchase except for the expansions.

[CazzT.1870]

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:FFXIV and WoW has box cost+ expansion + sub fee + microtransactions (that you can't earn in-game).FFXIV and WoW also don't gate past content behind a separate purchase. You buy the current expansion, you get the whole game. This is not the case with GW2. And that will be a deterrent for many people.In the case of WoW, a lot of old content was changed/removed with Cataclysm. And that's still a sore spot for some. But other than that, all the content is still there, it hasn't been removed. FFXIV:ARR has not had any of its main story removed (they are trimming needless filler with 5.3, but they're not removing anything important like LWS1 has in it).

No.. they gate all content behind a seperate purchase, every monthAnd GW2 doesn't gate anything behind a purchase except for the expansions.

Subscription is not gating.GW2 gates LW behind additional purchase of the content, on top of paying for expansions.Never seen anyone call subscriptions "gating" before....

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Since you can earn access to Living World Episodes by playing the game (no real money involved), they aren't exactly 'gated behind purchases' only.

[jokke.6239]

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:FFXIV and WoW has box cost+ expansion + sub fee + microtransactions (that you can't earn in-game).FFXIV and WoW also don't gate past content behind a separate purchase. You buy the current expansion, you get the whole game. This is not the case with GW2. And that will be a deterrent for many people.In the case of WoW, a lot of old content was changed/removed with Cataclysm. And that's still a sore spot for some. But other than that, all the content is still there, it hasn't been removed. FFXIV:ARR has not had any of its main story removed (they are trimming needless filler with 5.3, but they're not removing anything important like LWS1 has in it).

No.. they gate all content behind a seperate purchase, every monthAnd GW2 doesn't gate anything behind a purchase except for the expansions.

Subscription is not gating.GW2 gates LW behind additional purchase of the content, on top of paying for expansions.Never seen anyone call subscriptions "gating" before....

So let me get this straight ..Content you can buy permanently with a one time real money purchase AND earn in game is gated content... BUT .. Content that is gated behind a real money purchase that you have to repeat monthly is NOT gated content?

[CazzT.1870]

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:FFXIV and WoW has box cost+ expansion + sub fee + microtransactions (that you can't earn in-game).FFXIV and WoW also don't gate past content behind a separate purchase. You buy the current expansion, you get the whole game. This is not the case with GW2. And that will be a deterrent for many people.In the case of WoW, a lot of old content was changed/removed with Cataclysm. And that's still a sore spot for some. But other than that, all the content is still there, it hasn't been removed. FFXIV:ARR has not had any of its main story removed (they are trimming needless filler with 5.3, but they're not removing anything important like LWS1 has in it).

No.. they gate all content behind a seperate purchase, every monthAnd GW2 doesn't gate anything behind a purchase except for the expansions.

Subscription is not gating.GW2 gates LW behind additional purchase of the content, on top of paying for expansions.Never seen anyone call subscriptions "gating" before....

So let me get this straight ..Content you can buy permanently with a one time real money purchase AND earn in game is gated content... BUT .. Content that is gated behind a real money purchase that you have to repeat monthly is NOT gated content?

A sub grants you access to the entire game, not just part of it. If there were tiers of subs, where higher tiers gave access to content that lower tiers did not, THAT would be gating with subs. And I can't think of a single MMO that does that. So no, subscription is not gating.

[kharmin.7683]

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:FFXIV and WoW has box cost+ expansion + sub fee + microtransactions (that you can't earn in-game).FFXIV and WoW also don't gate past content behind a separate purchase. You buy the current expansion, you get the whole game. This is not the case with GW2. And that will be a deterrent for many people.In the case of WoW, a lot of old content was changed/removed with Cataclysm. And that's still a sore spot for some. But other than that, all the content is still there, it hasn't been removed. FFXIV:ARR has not had any of its main story removed (they are trimming needless filler with 5.3, but they're not removing anything important like LWS1 has in it).

No.. they gate all content behind a seperate purchase, every monthAnd GW2 doesn't gate anything behind a purchase except for the expansions.

Subscription is not gating.GW2 gates LW behind additional purchase of the content, on top of paying for expansions.Never seen anyone call subscriptions "gating" before....

So let me get this straight ..Content you can buy permanently with a one time real money purchase AND earn in game is gated content... BUT .. Content that is gated behind a real money purchase that you have to repeat monthly is NOT gated content?

A sub grants you access to the entire game, not just part of it. If there were tiers of subs, where higher tiers gave access to content that lower tiers did not, THAT would be gating with subs. And I can't think of a single MMO that does that. So no, subscription is not gating.

But what happens if you decide to stop paying that monthly fee? Wouldn't you lose access to that content? I would consider that gating, to an extent.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

My apologies. I did not see where you stated that the purchase was optional, and for those that did not want to earn access in-game.

[CazzT.1870]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:FFXIV and WoW has box cost+ expansion + sub fee + microtransactions (that you can't earn in-game).FFXIV and WoW also don't gate past content behind a separate purchase. You buy the current expansion, you get the whole game. This is not the case with GW2. And that will be a deterrent for many people.In the case of WoW, a lot of old content was changed/removed with Cataclysm. And that's still a sore spot for some. But other than that, all the content is still there, it hasn't been removed. FFXIV:ARR has not had any of its main story removed (they are trimming needless filler with 5.3, but they're not removing anything important like LWS1 has in it).

No.. they gate all content behind a seperate purchase, every monthAnd GW2 doesn't gate anything behind a purchase except for the expansions.

Subscription is not gating.GW2 gates LW behind additional purchase of the content, on top of paying for expansions.Never seen anyone call subscriptions "gating" before....

So let me get this straight ..Content you can buy permanently with a one time real money purchase AND earn in game is gated content... BUT .. Content that is gated behind a real money purchase that you have to repeat monthly is NOT gated content?

A sub grants you access to the entire game, not just part of it. If there were tiers of subs, where higher tiers gave access to content that lower tiers did not, THAT would be gating with subs. And I can't think of a single MMO that does that. So no, subscription is not gating.

But what happens if you decide to stop paying that monthly fee? Wouldn't you lose access to that content? I would consider that gating, to an extent.Then you would be using an incorrect definition of gating. I see the confusion, but they are not the same thing.Perhaps I should have used a different term. Though at this point I believe no matter what I say it will only result in more twisting of what I'm saying.

[coso.9173]

while it's good they sell living world seasons separately, each expac should also include the previous season too.so HoT should come with LWS2 and PoF should come with LWS3.seasons 4 and 5 are still new, and there's no 3rd expac yet. so it's good.

[jokke.6239]

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:FFXIV and WoW has box cost+ expansion + sub fee + microtransactions (that you can't earn in-game).FFXIV and WoW also don't gate past content behind a separate purchase. You buy the current expansion, you get the whole game. This is not the case with GW2. And that will be a deterrent for many people.In the case of WoW, a lot of old content was changed/removed with Cataclysm. And that's still a sore spot for some. But other than that, all the content is still there, it hasn't been removed. FFXIV:ARR has not had any of its main story removed (they are trimming needless filler with 5.3, but they're not removing anything important like LWS1 has in it).

No.. they gate all content behind a seperate purchase, every monthAnd GW2 doesn't gate anything behind a purchase except for the expansions.

Subscription is not gating.GW2 gates LW behind additional purchase of the content, on top of paying for expansions.Never seen anyone call subscriptions "gating" before....

So let me get this straight ..Content you can buy permanently with a one time real money purchase AND earn in game is gated content... BUT .. Content that is gated behind a real money purchase that you have to repeat monthly is NOT gated content?

A sub grants you access to the entire game, not just part of it. If there were tiers of subs, where higher tiers gave access to content that lower tiers did not, THAT would be gating with subs. And I can't think of a single MMO that does that. So no, subscription is not gating.

I'm not aware of the correct definition of "gated content", and google weren't to helpful to find examples that were relevant to game purchases.But I would assume that it means content that is behind a gate. Isn't that exactly what content locked behind a subscription is? Sure you payed for the game, but you don't have access to it without paying a monthly fee.At the end of the day that definition isn't relevant, how much money you spent is.3 months worth of subscription and you have the entire living story, or you have the option to earn it through gameplay.

[CazzT.1870]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:My apologies. I did not see where you stated that the purchase was optional, and for those that did not want to earn access in-game.I mean, I did heavily emphasize with several posts the story aspect in relation to LW. Sure, it's optional. Unless you want the whole story. Then it's less optional, though still not* required. But the issue is not whether it's optional. Pretty sure that's been clear all along.

*missed a word

[CazzT.1870]

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:

@CazzT.1870 said:

@jokke.6239 said:FFXIV and WoW has box cost+ expansion + sub fee + microtransactions (that you can't earn in-game).FFXIV and WoW also don't gate past content behind a separate purchase. You buy the current expansion, you get the whole game. This is not the case with GW2. And that will be a deterrent for many people.In the case of WoW, a lot of old content was changed/removed with Cataclysm. And that's still a sore spot for some. But other than that, all the content is still there, it hasn't been removed. FFXIV:ARR has not had any of its main story removed (they are trimming needless filler with 5.3, but they're not removing anything important like LWS1 has in it).

No.. they gate all content behind a seperate purchase, every monthAnd GW2 doesn't gate anything behind a purchase except for the expansions.

Subscription is not gating.GW2 gates LW behind additional purchase of the content, on top of paying for expansions.Never seen anyone call subscriptions "gating" before....

So let me get this straight ..Content you can buy permanently with a one time real money purchase AND earn in game is gated content... BUT .. Content that is gated behind a real money purchase that you have to repeat monthly is NOT gated content?

A sub grants you access to the entire game, not just part of it. If there were tiers of subs, where higher tiers gave access to content that lower tiers did not, THAT would be gating with subs. And I can't think of a single MMO that does that. So no, subscription is not gating.

I'm not aware of the correct definition of "gated content", and google weren't to helpful to find examples that were relevant to game purchases.This one took me a few tries to find a definition, and even this one does not entirely encompass what gating has come to mean in MMOs:"Many games prevent players from progressing using gates. A gate might a physical door that they have to unlock, a time window that they have to show up for, a specific condition like a solving one task before unlocking another, or a requirement that a player research one technology before being allowed another."It's also why I mentioned that I probably should have used a better/different term.

But I would assume that it means content that is behind a gate. Isn't that exactly what content locked behind a subscription is? Sure you payed for the game, but you don't have access to it without paying a monthly fee.A subscription is not a gate. While on the surface they appear the same, they are not. Gating is preventing access to content in a game you already have access to.

At the end of the day that definition isn't relevant, how much money you spent is.3 months worth of subscription and you have the entire living story, or you have the option to earn it through gameplay.It doesn't matter how much it costs or how long you'd need to be subbed for to make up the same cost. The problem is that it's content that has to be purchased IN ADDITION TO THE EXPANSIONS. I don't know how to make that any clearer. No other MMO locks content like this.

---

As someone above stated, bundle the previous season in with the new expansion. If they feel they still need to make money off something that probably doesn't even amount to 0.1% of their revenue, raise the expansion price by $5.

Also also.... I just used my Level 80 boost. At least three different warnings about using it. If that were done when buying/upgrading to current expansion, I think that would alleviate a lot of issues. I still will never agree with how they don't include past LW as part of expansions (or outright removing any of them), but I think informing the customer clearly would be better than it is now.

[jokke.6239]

x

But I would assume that it means content that is behind a gate. Isn't that exactly what content locked behind a subscription is? Sure you payed for the game, but you don't have access to it without paying a monthly fee.A subscription is not a gate. While on the surface they appear the same, they are not. Gating is preventing access to content in a game you already have access to.

Just because you have a box or a email saying you own the game doesn't mean you have access to it. That's pretty much exactly what you don't have when it's locked behind a subscription

At the end of the day that definition isn't relevant, how much money you spent is.3 months worth of subscription and you have the entire living story, or you have the option to earn it through gameplay.It doesn't matter how much it costs or how long you'd need to be subbed for to make up the same cost. The problem is that it's content that has to be purchased IN ADDITION TO THE EXPANSIONS. I don't know how to make that any clearer. No other MMO locks content like this.

But it absolutely matters. I care about the cost, not about the traditional way to do it.

.. Also, this reply system is a bit confusing, hope I did it right

[jokke.6239]

And I just realized I misread your post. But I don't see how it's any better to not have access to a game without a monthly fee vs having access to a game with in-game earnable content with the option to pay for it much cheaper than you would end up spending on a subscription MMORPG

[Stelawrat.6589]

I can understand the disappointment the OP & his son felt & while this suggestion can't change the outcome re: having to pay for past LW Season content, it might help the OP (& others) to appreciate the sheer amount of content being referred to & as a result, why there is an associated cost for that content.

Using this link, if you scroll to the bottom & work your way up from there, you'll realize the massive amount of content that has been added to the base game over the years. If you take the time to explore it, clicking on the links to each episode's synopsis, you'll discover lots of lore, video links, etc., all beautifully illustrated, all in chronological order.

You'll really get a sense of how this game has developed over the years since 2012, the man hours, the talent, the expertise involved, all of it still available for purchase, with the exception of LWS1, although its 20 episodes are also detailed there.

Guild Wars & Guild Wars 2 are the first games that I ever felt justified in buying, in large part because I was able to play 100% of the core game for free. I bought both games on sale, an even bigger bonus. I knew that the LW Seasons also went on sale semi-regularly, so I waited for that to happen & took advantage there as well. That I'm able to unlock LW Season content for free since then, just by logging into the game, is an incredibly generous feature to me.

That Anet recently chose to bundle HoT for free, with the purchase of PoF, I think is an indication of their effort, not to limit player participation in any significant way at all.

I have yet to find any other games of this quality, at such reasonable cost, with no pressure to have to invest more money, to really enjoy the full game.

It's little consolation I know, but I think that by listing the Living World separately from the Expansions, when you mouse over the header for that Releases page, that is Anet's subtle way of indicating that there is an initial, one time only, cost for that content.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Hmm...."has to be purchased IN ADDITION TO THE EXPANSIONS"

Again, a choice, as it can be acquired at no cost.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Being a new player that never heard about Guild Wars, not being told that even after you buy the expansion that you have to buy more to actually play all the story, knowing about getting those free if you logged in during their release doesn't really help them at all.

Also saying that they get both expansions for such a cheap price now isn't a good argument. Anet cut the character slot and the shared inventory slot from HoT. Buying those things after means you didn't get the expansions at a cheaper price after all.

It's simple. Having to pay for dozens of pieces of content that most regular players got for free sucks. No context you use can justify that. As time passes that price will only get steeper and newer players will feel swindled at Anet not being up front with the Living World pay model.