Living World Access To New Players

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

2 hours ago, Codo.8412 said:

I don't even care about the story

 

1 hour ago, Codo.8412 said:

I also care about the story

Confusing. 

[AgentMoore.9453]

2 hours ago, Codo.8412 said:

New player here

Hello!

2 hours ago, Codo.8412 said:

I'll be dropping this game

..oh no!

I see you're getting a lot of hostility in response to your observations, but try not to let it get to you. People who have been around for a while sometimes have difficulty seeing things from the perspective of someone new - particularly because the experience now is quite different from what it was at launch in terms of content, systems, and acquisition. That said, I don't think you should give up on GW2 yet.

As some have mentioned, LW seasons do give you some bang for your buck outside of just story beats. They're not quite expansions, but usually they do have a lot of things that expansions do, like new maps, achievements, weapons, fashion skins, character titles, activities, and other content. This is the reason that I don't mind that they sell LW seasons, even if the costs do add up after a few years (ArenaNet seems to realize this too, since they're re-implementing S1 this year and making it free for everyone - forever).

However, you're absolutely right to be frustrated about the way this game was sold to you. It's been ~two years since I weighed in in this thread about the way content is packaged and advertised to new players, and somehow they've managed to make it even worse now than it was then. Now they have a package professing to be a complete edition that gives you 'everything you need to experience Tyria, a living world'.

Not only is this not everything - not even close - but they purposefully use the words 'living world' without actually meaning the product by the same name. That's awful. It's my hope that after all these years, ArenaNet finally addresses the way this game is packaged and sold so that incoming players can see exactly what's available before they've spent a dime, and people like you can decide early whether or not they want to make the investment instead of feeling like they've been misled.

You may not be aware of this, but the company is hoping to release GW2 on Steam later this year and as part of getting ready for that, they are revising their new player experience, putting LW1 back in the game, and looking at other areas where they can improve the introductory experience. This is a critical time when they need to be thinking about how their product is packaged and the importance of being clear and up front about it with potential new customers.

[Fuchslein.8639]

2 hours ago, Codo.8412 said:

Feel free to let me know what you are confused about ofc. Happy to explain to the biased if needed. 

Don't take this to seriously. People like these emotes, not only as dislikes.

About the extra paywall. Yeah, it sucks. It gots discussed often, and mostly people in these threads say yeah, it's kinda sucky how anet presents this. So, you are not alone. And i know personally someone who also left the game, because he felt trolled, because at this time none of us really did know about this.

As other people said, you can buy it via Gold=Gems .... but, this is, in my personall opinion, a grind. You would need to concentrate on the LW to get the needed money. Also when you should do this, look out for times when the gem-price is low. When you can do this, its mostly at hour's where most people sleep. At least in EU i made the best exchanges at late hour's.

I can understand when you don't want to give Anet money or time, because of this. But GW2 is mostly a really great game and you get A LOT of content for your'e money.

[Valfar.3761]

Anet is deceptive. You go to their website and see "buy the GW2 collection for $50! Get everything you need to experience GW2!". You buy it... and then find out that no, you did not get the complete GW2 experience. You got half of it. You still have to drop another $50 to buy the rest of the game. That's scummy and it's sad to see people simping for a corporation that does it.

https://i.imgur.com/wUWAGP4.png

Edited June 3, 2022 by Valfar.3761

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Valfar.3761 said:

Anet is deceptive. You go to their website and see "buy the GW2 collection for $50! Get everything you need to experience GW2!". You buy it... and then find out that no, you did not get the complete GW2 experience. You got half of it. You still have to drop another $50 to buy the rest of the game. That's scummy and it's sad to see people simping for a corporation that does it.

https://i.imgur.com/wUWAGP4.png

Yes it clearly state guild wars 2 and all of its expansions.

Do it say anything about living world season 2-4 or ice brood saga?

No, could it be written better yes it imo should.

But they are telling you what you are buying.

[AgentMoore.9453]

2 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yes it clearly state guild wars 2 and all of its expansions.

Do it say anything about living world season 2-4 or ice brood saga?

No, could it be written better yes it imo should.

But they are telling you what you are buying.

"Buy this amazing car. It comes with all four wheels, a powerful engine, cupholders, and a custom paint job and interior. Everything you need to experience the road!"

Steering wheel sold separately, of course, being written nowhere on the advertisement. But they didn't say anything about the steering wheel on the listing page, so that's fine, right? You're happy with your car? You can still hit the gas and experience the road as intended?

This is why it's a bigger issue than just 'not being written' well. Because it's natural that most people assume that when you buy the 'complete' edition of something, you're buying all of the something, it's absolutely misleading that ArenaNet is selling the car (a story-driven MMO) without the steering wheel (LW/Story). The omission of something as important as LW from their advertising is a huge problem. There's no 'well actually' angle here that doesn't just sound like support for the indirect nature of the marketing.

With the way things currently are, it's very obvious to me why new players feel blindsided and frustrated, and I don't want to extend any excuses to the bad practices that led us here.

[Linken.6345]

19 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

"Buy this amazing car. It comes with all four wheels, a powerful engine, cupholders, and a custom paint job and interior. Everything you need to experience the road!"

Steering wheel sold separately, of course, being written nowhere on the advertisement. But they didn't say anything about the steering wheel on the listing page, so that's fine, right? You're happy with your car? You can still hit the gas and experience the road as intended?

This is why it's a bigger issue than just 'not being written' well. Because it's natural that most people assume that when you buy the 'complete' edition of something, you're buying all of the something, it's absolutely misleading that ArenaNet is selling the car (a story-driven MMO) without the steering wheel (LW/Story). The omission of something as important as LW from their advertising is a huge problem. There's no 'well actually' angle here that doesn't just sound like support for the indirect nature of the marketing.

With the way things currently are, it's very obvious to me why new players feel blindsided and frustrated, and I don't want to extend any excuses to the bad practices that led us here.

How do you experience the road as intented if you cant turn left or right when the road do?

A better analogy is your complaining when you bought your car because it dont include a trailer.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Linken.6345

[AgentMoore.9453]

2 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

How do you experience the road as intented if you cant turn left or right when the road do?

Exactly. You don't and that's a big problem.

You can't follow the turns in the road (or in the story), you have no idea where you are or where you're going (Why are you in Maguuma? Elona? Cantha?) or who's in the back seat (Dragon's Watch) or who you just ran over as you careen aimlessly through the neighborhood (Various characters lost in LW). Your car still has brakes (You can quit at any time), but it'd be better if you could have a reasonable expectation of steering the car from the start (selling the game with the option of also buying LW up front).

6 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

A better analogy is your complaining when you bought your car because it dont include a trailer.

A trailer is a QoL upgrade that doesn't affect the basic experience of driving, whereas a steering wheel (access to the story in an RPG) absolutely does.

[Linken.6345]

36 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Exactly. You don't and that's a big problem.

You can't follow the turns in the road (or in the story), you have no idea where you are or where you're going (Why are you in Maguuma? Elona? Cantha?) or who's in the back seat (Dragon's Watch) or who you just ran over as you careen aimlessly through the neighborhood (Various characters lost in LW). Your car still has brakes (You can quit at any time), but it'd be better if you could have a reasonable expectation of steering the car from the start (selling the game with the option of also buying LW up front).

A trailer is a QoL upgrade that doesn't affect the basic experience of driving, whereas a steering wheel (access to the story in an RPG) absolutely does.

and your buying the expansions but not the dlc that is living story seasons.

I agree that they dont inform the consumer about it but their sales page aint lying to the consumer at all.

[Fuchslein.8639]

4 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

and your buying the expansions but not the dlc that is living story seasons.

I agree that they dont inform the consumer about it but their sales page aint lying to the consumer at all.

Depends on how you see it. As a new player, how can you know that there are hidden DLC's?

As other said, the story, if you like it or not, are a big part of an MMO. And i just claim here, that most people start because they want to see the Story and Open World of GW2. And in the Bundle text it say's "Get EVERYTHING you need, to experience Tyria."

And this is just not true, aka a big fat lie. They hide a BIG PART of Tyria behind these DLC's, to be exact they hide Story and Maps. And i know, you people will come at me, this is not needed, blah blah. But they also hide a big advantage. The almost free, stat-selectable jewelery and backpacks.

As i started 2 years ago, this new account, this was my biggest point if i keep playing or not. Would i not get the LW for free from the Returning events, i probaly had quit. Because i paid once for the LW on my old account and now this cost had more than doubled. And i was at the same place as my friends years ago with me. I would not have played any further just because friends wanted me to.

Of course this is just my case. People who play this the first time, probaly don't have a problem with the price, but more so with the "how should i know" aspect. At least this was for me and a friend in the beginning of my gw2-time. He left, because he felt trolled, i stayed, because at the time the cost where not that big. I have no idea how i would handle this nowadays.

 

In the end you can argue how you want, i can argue how i want. But Anet loses player just because of this small detail and i don't see what would be so bad about changing this?

[AgentMoore.9453]

4 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

their sales page aint lying to the consumer at all.

It literally is.

When you knowingly give a false impression (such as saying 'complete' 'everything you need' 'living world' when offering an incomplete product) or purposefully omit vital information (the existence/costs of LW chapters), you are presenting a lie. I wasn't aware of this previously, but the dictionary actually use cars as their example for the definition too. I understand that the word 'lie' may make some people feel uncomfortable, but words mean what they mean.

[Gehenna.3625]

10 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

It literally is.

When you knowingly give a false impression (such as saying 'complete' 'everything you need' 'living world' when offering an incomplete product) or purposefully omit vital information (the existence/costs of LW chapters), you are presenting a lie. I wasn't aware of this previously, but the dictionary actually use cars as their example for the definition too. I understand that the word 'lie' may make some people feel uncomfortable, but words mean what they mean.

Indeed and here's the lie https://buy.guildwars2.com/en-us/collection?tab=0

Note how it says "all content in one collection"....and yet it's not all content.

Also where it says "The whole world is yours" and "explore without limits". But there are limits because you have to buy the LS maps.

 

I really wish that they would add LS content to their sales page.

[Rasimir.6239]

15 hours ago, Codo.8412 said:

As a new player, I am trying to find what to do in endgame. I want to finish the story because that's generally the first step in all MMO progression. I also care about the story cuz this game has an interesting way of story telling. Having to pay $100 on a 10yr old game just to play the full story in an RPG is predatory imo. Agree to disagree I suppose.

I think what you're missing here is that progression in GW2 is unlike any other MMORPG you might have played before. Linear progression is pretty much restricted to leveling your first character or two, and even then you have a variety of ways to do so outside of story.

 

Most of the progression in this game is non-linear. You can (and have to) choose the gameplay you want to play, with whatever's available to you. If you enjoy the story that's great, having story inside dlc content isn't exactly something new in non-subscription games either. ESO does it (and you really can't get around that without either buying the DLC or paying for an "optional" subscription), LotRO does it, I'm pretty sure most if not all non-sub games with a story emphasis have some kind of DLC system for their stories.

 

Living World DLC in GW2 consist of a lot more than just story though. Each episode beyond season 2 comes with access to a new map (or at least half of it in the case of Icebrood Saga), lots of new events, achievements, rewards, tons of exploration possibilities. Story really is pretty much just a minor part in most (if not all) living world episodes. As such the price tag really is reasonable compared to similar games, especially once you get to the point where you can get them through in-game gold.

 

Playing GW2 like any other MMORPG out there is possible, but you're really missing out if you play this game with a "standard MMO" mindset. Once you realize that you don't pay $100 for the story, but rather for a ton of content way beyond the story that can keep you busy for years, you'll understand why many people on this forum are "confused" about your post.

[Linken.6345]

8 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Indeed and here's the lie https://buy.guildwars2.com/en-us/collection?tab=0

Note how it says "all content in one collection"....and yet it's not all content.

Also where it says "The whole world is yours" and "explore without limits". But there are limits because you have to buy the LS maps.

 

I really wish that they would add LS content to their sales page.

So you somehow skiped over the head title.

ALL EXPANSIONS COLLECTION

Also just above add to cart there is

With the Standard Edition, you get the entire collection of Guild Wars 2 expansions.

Yes living seasons are badly advertised but they are not lying what is in said collection.

You get to play all 3 expansions without limits and there is all the content from those expansions in said collection.

8 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Indeed and here's the lie https://buy.guildwars2.com/en-us/collection?tab=0

Note how it says "all content in one collection"....and yet it's not all content.

Also where it says "The whole world is yours" and "explore without limits". But there are limits because you have to buy the LS maps.

 

I really wish that they would add LS content to their sales page.

Context matters they are talking about the core+ expansions not the living world sesaons.

Core game and the expansion got a living breathing world aswell.

Is it badly written yes it is but they are not lying.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Linken.6345

[Codo.8412]

On 6/3/2022 at 8:22 PM, Linken.6345 said:

and your buying the expansions but not the dlc that is living story seasons.

I agree that they dont inform the consumer about it but their sales page aint lying to the consumer at all.

I wouldn't mind this if the story wasn't relevant towards understanding the next xpac, but because it is, it's an inherent part of the main story and something that should be advertised. No one thinks they are experiencing the full story as they lead you to believe after the huge time skips between each xpac if you don't play the living seasons. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Codo.8412

[Codo.8412]

On 6/3/2022 at 1:39 PM, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

 

Confusing. 

"As my primary focus" lol. Meaning it's not what I care about most. Hope that helps.

[vicky.9751]

Was about to make a thread asking why the story wasn't linear- but I guess yours is a better question. I feel like new players will either want to do all story in the correct order, or skip to PoF for mounts. The living world is not included as "older content" whereas in FFXIV bundles all previous expansions + new one under a 40$ price tag. For the price of Ultimate version EoD(80$) you'd think ANET would bundle everything together.

Edited June 6, 2022 by vicky.9751

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Well, the Ultimate Edition gives the means to acquire all previous Living World Seasons ($50 worth of Gems). 

[Gehenna.3625]

On 6/4/2022 at 7:05 PM, Linken.6345 said:

So you somehow skiped over the head title.

ALL EXPANSIONS COLLECTION

I didn't miss that at all and that doesn't change anything. As a buyer you will see that you can get all expansions in one deal which is what you're referring to, but when you look up the details of what that means it says  "all content in one collection". It doesn't say all expansions in one collection but all content in one collection.

You're just biased in favor of Anet and explain it according to your bias, but this is just misleading. I love GW2 and I think Anet has done an amazing job but that doesn't mean they can do nothing wrong.

 

Edit: corrected some spelling mistakes.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Gehenna.3625

[Rasimir.6239]

2 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

 

Fancy words for I don't care I have mine. F new players. If you have a boomer mindset just say it and don't write down some vague point about unilinear progression like they story isn't linear. Main story is tied to cash shop without being advertised. Anet deciding to make their dlc into main story is the fault of Anet not the customer. To experience the main story you have to buy extra without any warning beforehand. That is a fact. And you can write platitudes about mindset or what value they get out of these Cash shop items it doesn't change the fact that new players get led on to believe they bought the main story but didn't get it.

That's not what I mean by "non-linear progression". What I mean is that story is just one way to progress in this game, and in no way required (or even all that helpful) to progress your account to where you can choose the "endgame" you enjoy. Story in this game isn't something you absolutely have to do first (or even do at all). There's much more to this game than story, that's all I've tried to say.

 

And for the record, out of the six accounts in my family, only two where here for the majority of the living world. The other four have picked up living world episodes from the gemstore at various times. Neither of them however was into story much, so they didn't beeline for picking that up, but only got it later, at their convenience.

[SlayerXX.7138]

25 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Story in this game isn't something you absolutely have to do first (or even do at all). There's much more to this game than story, that's all I've tried to say.

Well you don't have to do anything🙂.  So your rebuttal to my point is the main story isn't important so it is fine to lock it behind the cash shop without warning the customer that "experience the whole of Tyria" doesn't include the story mode? Because that is what your post boils down to without the fluff.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Rasimir.6239]

1 hour ago, Albi.7250 said:

Because that is what your post boils down to without the fluff.

Please stop putting words in my mouth and twisting my words to suit your narrative. Thank you.