Just another downed state thread

steki.1478 · April 7, 2019

If you can cleave then get out of combat, mount up and stomp with mount. Or use stability/blinks to secure downeds.

Besides, wvw is balanced for large scale fights, not for roaming. Otherwise, gs mesmer and soulbeast wouldnt be as broken.

Jaruselka.5943 · April 7, 2019

For me downstate is just inconvenient: No downstate would mean that I can immediately get back into action after being killed. Besides I main an engie which has the worst downstate skills in the game but thats a topic for another thread in a different section.

DemonSeed.3528 · April 7, 2019

@Jaruselka.5943 said:For me downstate is just inconvenient: No downstate would mean that I can immediately get back into action after being killed. Besides I main an engie which has the worst downstate skills in the game but thats a topic for another thread in a different section.

Engi can pull enemy closer to them so they can be killed faster :P

Jaruselka.5943 · April 7, 2019

@DemonSeed.3528 said:
@Jaruselka.5943 said:For me downstate is just inconvenient: No downstate would mean that I can immediately get back into action after being killed. Besides I main an engie which has the worst downstate skills in the game but thats a topic for another thread in a different section.

Engi can pull enemy closer to them so they can be killed faster :P

Or they can kill YOU faster...

DemonSeed.3528 · April 7, 2019

@Jaruselka.5943 said:
@DemonSeed.3528 said:
@Jaruselka.5943 said:For me downstate is just inconvenient: No downstate would mean that I can immediately get back into action after being killed. Besides I main an engie which has the worst downstate skills in the game but thats a topic for another thread in a different section.

Engi can pull enemy closer to them so they can be killed faster :P

Or they can kill YOU faster...

That is what I was saying XD

hobotnicax.7918 · April 7, 2019

Yep, remove this crutch mechanic. It would fix so many things wrong with WvW.

KryTiKaL.3125 · April 7, 2019

@zinkz.7045 said:Downstate adds depth, teamwork, decision making and build considerations to the game. (which in a game mode that is already about as simplistic, low skilled and braindead as you can get is sorely needed)
Which is why when this game had PvP teams, the handful that were actually properly good (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) managed downstate noticeably better than even the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

In some senses yes it does add "depth, teamwork and decision making" but only in the ressing aspect which is something I think should stay in the game but not in the form of the downed state and rallying. I dislike how these two things work in conjunction with one another a lot. The downed state was a mechanic added due to GW2 initially launching with the intent of keeping the "holy trinity" out of the gameplay as they did not intend to have dedicated healing or "tanking" in the game. However that is not the case now and there has been dedicated healing for quite a while now, especially with Firebrand among the ranks of meta comps. This has made downed state redundant and unnecessary in PvP modes like sPvP and WvW and only causes more harm than good especially with the skill gap between players that you run into most frequently in WvW. Does this mean that it gives less competent players a chance to stay in a fight? Sure, however the execution of how this is done is poor and rewards players for not playing competently by giving them this consistent "safety net".

I would not advocate for them to remove ressing from the game, I would actually rather they change how it works in conjunction with the removal of the downed state in sPvP and WvW to actually accommodate competitive play and "clutch" timing in fights by changing how res skills work (Battle Standard, Spirit of Nature, etc) or even adding some as well. Essentially make them function on full dead players in PvP modes such as WvW and sPvP.

Also keep in mind those "properly good" teams were around before Firebrand and other healing oriented builds were even a thing, ESL has been away from GW2 for years my friend, and they did not have to contend with the state of the game as it currently is and how redundant the downed state has become with the addition of actual healing builds.

@zinkz.7045 said:
@bigo.9037 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:Downstate adds depth, teamwork, decision making and build considerations to the game. (which in a game mode that is already about as simplistic, low skilled and braindead as you can get is sorely needed)
Which is why when this game had PvP teams, the handful that were actually properly good (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) managed downstate noticeably better than even the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

No kidding. The whole kitten gameplay revolves around downed state. You need to take those things into consideration but that doesn't mean it's good for the game or fun game play.

You say no kidding, yet you think it is a "noob carrying mechanic" when it is in fact the opposite, it increases the low skill cap of the combat in this game and better players manage downstate better than the noobs.

As for what is fun, that is very subjective, personally when I still played this game more than twice a year I preferred the added depth that downstate provides it is not like the combat (or the mode when it comes to WvW) has mountains of depth to it to begin with, it needs every bit of help it can get in that department. But I guess some like things with as little thought, teamwork and skill as possible.

It is in fact a noob carrying mechanic, especially if you are in a 1v3 scenario, which I personally get into consistently. The fact that these 3 players who I would typically have zero issue beating in this 1v3, as I've done before in other situations, can just go and rub someone back to life while in the downed state, if 2 of them ressed 1, and I may not be able to put enough pressure with a cleave to actually keep the res from happening. Either because they have an invuln up or maybe I didn't down the firebrand because thats a lengthy process already and they just heal their buddy while they res the 3rd guy. Go interrupt the Firebrand? Sure, pressure the Firebrand...while the 3rd guy gets ressed. Try to stomp before they get ressed? Unlikely. Kite and disengage because the situation is too dire? Sure, I do that anyway but then again that just lets the 3rd guy get revived and I am back to square 1 likely with much less of my CDs available.

As I said above as well, I do not think they should remove ressing from the game in PvP modes, I simply believe that they need to change how it is done and make it more reliant on actual usage of class abilities rather than it be something that rewards failures and those who outnumber yet are clearly of a lesser skill level and punishes those who frequently deal with outnumbered situations who may even possibly emerge the winner but gets hindered by the fact that Rando #3 is able to get right back into a fight by just getting rubbed a little. Or even just from a guard getting killed.

@"oOStaticOo.9467" said:Having a No Downed State only promotes more insta-gib, 1-shot, Stealth builds. It doesn't promote more healthy game play at all. Just more cheese. Instead of having more diversity in builds and fights, it will all be about who can get someone from 100-0 the fastest and most efficient. Downed State needs to stay as it, not only helps newer players getting acclimated to WvW, helps to promote more diverse build style because you now have to make sure you know how to kill your enemy instead of just using raw, brute force damage.

While I agree it would promote more insta-gibbing...as if that wasn't already a problem and people already that enough as is, its not going to really "make it worse" it just means that Arena Net needs to actually do something about builds like that. Namely Soulbeast, Deadeye, and maybe even look at Herald damage as that can get pretty intense. Some Heralds say "People act like we constantly have 25 stacks of might" and uh...yes...they do. 100% uptime? No. Consistent? Yes. That being aside from the point, they need to do a lot and take a look at many things in regards to PvP balance and actually address problems like the 1 shot Soulbeast builds, Perma-stealthing Deadeyes (yes this is still a problem, the Silent Scope nerf didn't do anything), and a lot of power crept damage.

I would like to point out, though, that a lot of why people get 1 shot as consistently as they do by things they may not expect it from does tend to come from a lack of understanding what to dodge and when. There is definitely still a case to account for where less experienced do double dodge for no reason, waste cooldowns, don't run effective builds and don't understand the classes they are fighting yet. It can take some time to grasp and a lot of dying to get to that point.

Oh and as for your point on downed state promoting build diversity...no it doesn't. Tell me how many builds would change should they remove downed state? The 1 shot builds? Nope. Builds that use the Battle Standard or other res skills? Sure, yeah, obviously...but where are those outside of zergs? They are run sometimes by coordinated havoc groups but typically not necessary because they will outnumber and overwhelm most others anyway.

You know what would create more build diversity? Especially in group play, the removal of downed state and changing res skills (Battle Standard, Spirit of Nature, etc) to function on full dead allies. This would promote choice over a personal utility or damage skill, Elites in the case of Battle Standard or Spirit of Nature, or taking a res skill to replenish your numbers in a fight. In zerg vs zerg combat it would change things up so as to not simply require "kill kill kill to get the downs up!" and require more timing res skills for that clutch or surprise come back against the enemy. That would even hold true in smaller scale fights like with havoc groups.

To bring it back to solo roaming scenarios, that 1v3 that could involve a Firebrand (assuming a res skill is added; I suggest changing Signet of Courage to function as one since its useless as it is and not worth taking over other elites), would mean if I managed to kill 1 enemy the Firebrand would use the res and I would know the cooldown on that skill so I could pressure and kite and react accordingly to play around the cooldown.

Remember, in this scenario before with the downed state that the res was going to be guaranteed and even if I got them down again then I would need to go through the process of either cleaving, which wouldn't succeed because they have a healer, or kiting which would mean the downed enemy is revived anyway or refocusing to pressure the Firebrand which would still result in the down getting revived. Without the downed state and with the change to res skills it would give players in situations like that, or even smaller groups outnumbered by a larger amount of players, better opportunities to counterplay and play around resses rather than be forced to either try to secure a stomp/kill or kite and try again. They could watch for res skills, note that they have been used and react accordingly either to pressure more kills or attempt to re-position the enemy to try to keep them from ressing their allies.

This was a long post, I apologize for that, but I just wanted to try to address the obvious rebuttals people would more than likely whip out.

GUFF.5692 · April 7, 2019

@"bigo.9037" said:Tired of it. I still wish anet would get rid of it. I've started to just ignore my roamer friends if they are outnumbered.
Cus if someone on my team is in a 3v1 there's a good chance they we both die if I help him cus they get hard carried by down state.
In a 3v2, either I have to res fast enough to get my friend up while they res their team mate so it's back to 3v2, or the 2 ppl just try to cleave my friend down so I can't res or stomp enemy in time.. then my friend will be dead okay.. but now it's a 3v1 again cus their downed player got back up from the kill on my team mate.Yay. That's fair. Happened to me a lot today so I'm making this post lol
It's just annoying these newbies get carried so hard by a bad mechanic that makes it so much easier for them to win the fight even though they already have more players than us.And for you people out there who are gonna call me names for being a roamer/ganker, enemy roamers engaged this fight on our territory. I get you don't wanna get instagibbed on your way to tag, but you can't deny downed state is a terrible noob mechanic that makes life 10 times easier for players who are bad, but have 2 brain cells enough to press F on a downed teammate.
You know, when you're fighting 2v3 it can take a lot of work to down 1 guy. All that work just goes to waste after 2 guys press F and he's back up.
"Hurr durr just cleave" yea well we are outnumbered from the start so it's not exactly like you have all your cool downs ready to cleave someone once they finally go down.
Tbh, there's just no excuse. It's a bad mechanic and it rewards sloppy bad play. Pressing F isn't hard.
I suggest making it take twice as long to res AND if enemy dies you don't get back up.

I didn't mind downstate when you could quickness stomp. Now that is gone, I pretty much hate it.

Dawdler.8521 · April 7, 2019

@Hitman.5829 said:
@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@Dawdler.8521 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
Handicapping the game in favor of the serg that has more numbers is a bad design game for a competitive game mode.
So, delete the guardian and the necro?

Facepalm!

What, they are the enablers for this gameplay - guards can heal downed through pretty much anything while necros hit 20+ targets by vomitting AoE. They are the handicap in the zerg that favors the one with more of them. Blaiming downed state for the failings of game balance seems odd.

FACEPALM, I don't know what the hell you are talking about. I starting talking about handicapping and you started talking about guard and necro. Your conversation is similar to the following:

Me:

The double slit experiment demonstrates that electrons have dual like properties of matter and waves.

You:

I like macaroni and cheese.

The fact that you got likes, just goes to show that other people like macaroni and cheese too. This world is filled with.... M, O, R, O.......Yes, you started talking about downed state handicapping the zerg in a thread that is about a 3v2 fight. Think about that for a moment and then consider what you just said with your "funny" analogy.

bigo.9037 · April 7, 2019

@zinkz.7045 said:
@bigo.9037 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@bigo.9037 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:Downstate adds depth, teamwork, decision making and build considerations to the game. (which in a game mode that is already about as simplistic, low skilled and braindead as you can get is sorely needed)
Which is why when this game had PvP teams, the handful that were actually properly good (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) managed downstate noticeably better than even the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

No kidding. The whole kitten gameplay revolves around downed state. You need to take those things into consideration but that doesn't mean it's good for the game or fun game play.

You say no kidding, yet you think it is a "noob carrying mechanic" when it is in fact the opposite, it increases the low skill cap of the combat in this game and better players manage downstate better than the noobs.

As for what is fun, that is very subjective, personally when I still played this game more than twice a year I preferred the added depth that downstate provides it is not like the combat (or the mode when it comes to WvW) has mountains of depth to it to begin with, it needs every bit of help it can get in that department. But I guess some like things with as little thought, teamwork and skill as possible.

You don't even play the game I guess that speaks volumes about your lack of understanding.Read my post. Downed state heavily favors a bigger group of players, giving them an even BIGGER advantage on top of already having more players. You don't play the game, you don't read my posts, and you don't know what you're talking about. If you don't even play the game, you don't belong on the forums. Please go away, your "feedback" isn't wanted.

LOL, I've played the game plenty, and I still play very occasionally, apparently enough (unlike some) to understand that downstate is not a "noob carrying mechanic" but the opposite.

As for larger groups, who cares, virtually every mechanic favours larger groups, because guess what you don't design games on the basis of 1v5 (or whatever).

If you can't cope with people pointing out the gaping flaws in your posts, then perhaps you should avoid making QQ threads on a public forum that highlight your own lack of objectivity and understanding of the game.

You're not pointing out anything. > @zinkz.7045 said:

@bigo.9037 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@bigo.9037 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:Downstate adds depth, teamwork, decision making and build considerations to the game. (which in a game mode that is already about as simplistic, low skilled and braindead as you can get is sorely needed)
Which is why when this game had PvP teams, the handful that were actually properly good (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) managed downstate noticeably better than even the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

No kidding. The whole kitten gameplay revolves around downed state. You need to take those things into consideration but that doesn't mean it's good for the game or fun game play.

You say no kidding, yet you think it is a "noob carrying mechanic" when it is in fact the opposite, it increases the low skill cap of the combat in this game and better players manage downstate better than the noobs.

As for what is fun, that is very subjective, personally when I still played this game more than twice a year I preferred the added depth that downstate provides it is not like the combat (or the mode when it comes to WvW) has mountains of depth to it to begin with, it needs every bit of help it can get in that department. But I guess some like things with as little thought, teamwork and skill as possible.

You don't even play the game I guess that speaks volumes about your lack of understanding.Read my post. Downed state heavily favors a bigger group of players, giving them an even BIGGER advantage on top of already having more players. You don't play the game, you don't read my posts, and you don't know what you're talking about. If you don't even play the game, you don't belong on the forums. Please go away, your "feedback" isn't wanted.

LOL, I've played the game plenty, and I still play very occasionally, apparently enough (unlike some) to understand that downstate is not a "noob carrying mechanic" but the opposite.

As for larger groups, who cares, virtually every mechanic favours larger groups, because guess what you don't design games on the basis of 1v5 (or whatever).

If you can't cope with people pointing out the gaping flaws in your posts, then perhaps you should avoid making QQ threads on a public forum that highlight your own lack of objectivity and understanding of the game.

You're not pointing out anything?Give me examples of where downed state is the OPPOSITE of noob carrying mechanic.Are you baiting ppl into trying to stomp your allies then bursting them down?? You're literally just pointing out what downed state is. I'm saying if you fuck up, ya fucked up. But noo here you are being like "hurr durr, no, I MEANT to screw up and pressing F for 2 seconds ought to give me a 2nd chance even though in LITERALLY ANY OTHER GAME you would've just died and had to respawn.

bigo.9037 · April 7, 2019

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:Downstate adds depth, teamwork, decision making and build considerations to the game. (which in a game mode that is already about as simplistic, low skilled and braindead as you can get is sorely needed)
Which is why when this game had PvP teams, the handful that were actually properly good (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) managed downstate noticeably better than even the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

In some senses yes it does add "depth, teamwork and decision making" but only in the ressing aspect which is something I think should

stay

in the game but

not

in the form of the downed state and rallying. I dislike how these two things work in conjunction with one another

a lot

. The downed state was a mechanic added due to GW2 initially launching with the intent of keeping the "holy trinity" out of the gameplay as they did not intend to have dedicated healing or "tanking" in the game.

However

that is not the case now and there has been dedicated healing for quite a while now, especially with Firebrand among the ranks of meta comps. This has made downed state redundant and unnecessary in PvP modes like sPvP and WvW and only causes more harm than good especially with the skill gap between players that you run into most frequently in WvW. Does this mean that it gives less competent players a chance to stay in a fight? Sure, however the execution of how this is done is

poor

and rewards players for not playing competently by giving them this consistent "safety net".

I would not advocate for them to remove ressing from the game, I would actually rather they

change

how it works in conjunction with the removal of the downed state in sPvP and WvW to actually accommodate competitive play and "clutch" timing in fights by changing how res skills work (Battle Standard, Spirit of Nature, etc) or even

adding

some as well. Essentially make them function on full dead players in PvP modes such as WvW and sPvP.

Also keep in mind those "properly good" teams were around

before

Firebrand and other healing oriented builds were even a thing, ESL has been away from GW2 for

years

my friend, and they did not have to contend with the state of the game as it currently is and how redundant the downed state has become with the addition of actual

healing

builds.

@zinkz.7045 said:
@bigo.9037 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:Downstate adds depth, teamwork, decision making and build considerations to the game. (which in a game mode that is already about as simplistic, low skilled and braindead as you can get is sorely needed)
Which is why when this game had PvP teams, the handful that were actually properly good (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) managed downstate noticeably better than even the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

No kidding. The whole kitten gameplay revolves around downed state. You need to take those things into consideration but that doesn't mean it's good for the game or fun game play.

You say no kidding, yet you think it is a "noob carrying mechanic" when it is in fact the opposite, it increases the low skill cap of the combat in this game and better players manage downstate better than the noobs.

As for what is fun, that is very subjective, personally when I still played this game more than twice a year I preferred the added depth that downstate provides it is not like the combat (or the mode when it comes to WvW) has mountains of depth to it to begin with, it needs every bit of help it can get in that department. But I guess some like things with as little thought, teamwork and skill as possible.

It is in fact a noob carrying mechanic, especially if you are in a 1v3 scenario, which I personally get into consistently. The fact that these 3 players who I would typically have

zero

issue beating in this 1v3, as I've done before in other situations, can just go and rub someone back to life while in the downed state, if 2 of them ressed 1, and I may not be able to put enough pressure with a cleave to actually keep the res from happening. Either because they have an invuln up or maybe I didn't down the firebrand because thats a lengthy process already and they just heal their buddy while they res the 3rd guy. Go interrupt the Firebrand? Sure, pressure the Firebrand...while the 3rd guy gets ressed. Try to stomp before they get ressed? Unlikely. Kite and disengage because the situation is too dire? Sure, I do that anyway but then again that just lets the 3rd guy get revived and I am back to square 1 likely with much less of my CDs available.

As I said above as well, I do not think they should remove ressing from the game in PvP modes, I simply believe that they need to change how it is done and make it more reliant on actual usage of class abilities rather than it be something that rewards failures and those who outnumber yet are clearly of a lesser skill level and punishes those who frequently deal with outnumbered situations who may even possibly emerge the winner

but

gets hindered by the fact that Rando #3 is able to get right back into a fight by just getting rubbed a little. Or even just from a

guard

getting killed.

@"oOStaticOo.9467" said:Having a No Downed State only promotes more insta-gib, 1-shot, Stealth builds. It doesn't promote more healthy game play at all. Just more cheese. Instead of having more diversity in builds and fights, it will all be about who can get someone from 100-0 the fastest and most efficient. Downed State needs to stay as it, not only helps newer players getting acclimated to WvW, helps to promote more diverse build style because you now have to make sure you know how to kill your enemy instead of just using raw, brute force damage.

While I agree it would promote more insta-gibbing...as if that wasn't already a problem and people already that enough as is, its not going to really "make it worse" it just means that Arena Net needs to actually

do

something about builds like that. Namely Soulbeast, Deadeye, and maybe even look at Herald damage as that can get pretty intense. Some Heralds say "People act like we constantly have 25 stacks of might" and uh...yes...they do. 100% uptime? No. Consistent? Yes. That being aside from the point, they need to do a lot and take a look at many things in regards to PvP balance and actually address problems like the 1 shot Soulbeast builds, Perma-stealthing Deadeyes (yes this is still a problem, the Silent Scope nerf didn't do anything), and a lot of power crept damage.

I would like to point out, though, that a lot of why people get 1 shot as consistently as they do by things they may not expect it from does tend to come from a lack of understanding

what

to dodge and

when

. There is definitely still a case to account for where less experienced do double dodge for no reason, waste cooldowns, don't run effective builds and don't understand the classes they are fighting yet. It can take some time to grasp and a lot of dying to get to that point.

Oh and as for your point on downed state promoting build diversity...no it doesn't. Tell me how many builds would change should they remove downed state? The 1 shot builds? Nope. Builds that use the Battle Standard or other res skills? Sure, yeah, obviously...but where are those outside of zergs? They are run sometimes by coordinated havoc groups but typically not necessary because they will outnumber and overwhelm most others anyway.

You know what would create more build diversity? Especially in group play, the removal of downed state and changing res skills (Battle Standard, Spirit of Nature, etc) to function on full dead allies. This would promote choice over a personal utility or damage skill, Elites in the case of Battle Standard or Spirit of Nature, or taking a res skill to replenish your numbers in a fight. In zerg vs zerg combat it would change things up so as to not simply require "kill kill kill to get the downs up!" and require more timing res skills for that clutch or surprise come back against the enemy. That would even hold true in smaller scale fights like with havoc groups.

To bring it back to solo roaming scenarios, that 1v3 that could involve a Firebrand (assuming a res skill is added;

I

suggest changing Signet of Courage to function as one since its

useless

as it is and not worth taking over other elites), would mean if I managed to kill 1 enemy the Firebrand would use the res and I would

know

the cooldown on that skill so I could pressure and kite and react accordingly to play

around

the cooldown.

Remember, in this scenario before with the downed state that the res was going to be guaranteed and even if I got them down

again

then I would need to go through the process of either cleaving, which wouldn't succeed because they have a healer, or kiting which would mean the downed enemy is revived anyway or refocusing to pressure the Firebrand which would

still

result in the down getting revived. Without the downed state and with the change to res skills it would give players in situations like that, or even smaller groups outnumbered by a larger amount of players, better opportunities to counterplay and play

around

resses rather than be forced to either try to secure a stomp/kill or kite and try again. They could watch for res skills, note that they have been used and react accordingly either to pressure more kills or attempt to re-position the enemy to try to keep them from ressing their allies.

This was a long post, I apologize for that, but I just wanted to try to address the obvious rebuttals people would more than likely whip out.

Finally someone able to put my own frustrations into words! Thank you.

zinkz.7045 · April 7, 2019

@bigo.9037 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@bigo.9037 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@bigo.9037 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:Downstate adds depth, teamwork, decision making and build considerations to the game. (which in a game mode that is already about as simplistic, low skilled and braindead as you can get is sorely needed)
Which is why when this game had PvP teams, the handful that were actually properly good (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) managed downstate noticeably better than even the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

No kidding. The whole kitten gameplay revolves around downed state. You need to take those things into consideration but that doesn't mean it's good for the game or fun game play.

You say no kidding, yet you think it is a "noob carrying mechanic" when it is in fact the opposite, it increases the low skill cap of the combat in this game and better players manage downstate better than the noobs.

As for what is fun, that is very subjective, personally when I still played this game more than twice a year I preferred the added depth that downstate provides it is not like the combat (or the mode when it comes to WvW) has mountains of depth to it to begin with, it needs every bit of help it can get in that department. But I guess some like things with as little thought, teamwork and skill as possible.

You don't even play the game I guess that speaks volumes about your lack of understanding.Read my post. Downed state heavily favors a bigger group of players, giving them an even BIGGER advantage on top of already having more players. You don't play the game, you don't read my posts, and you don't know what you're talking about. If you don't even play the game, you don't belong on the forums. Please go away, your "feedback" isn't wanted.

LOL, I've played the game plenty, and I still play very occasionally, apparently enough (unlike some) to understand that downstate is not a "noob carrying mechanic" but the opposite.

As for larger groups, who cares, virtually every mechanic favours larger groups, because guess what you don't design games on the basis of 1v5 (or whatever).

If you can't cope with people pointing out the gaping flaws in your posts, then perhaps you should avoid making QQ threads on a public forum that highlight your own lack of objectivity and understanding of the game.

You're not pointing out anything. > @zinkz.7045 said:

@bigo.9037 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@bigo.9037 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:Downstate adds depth, teamwork, decision making and build considerations to the game. (which in a game mode that is already about as simplistic, low skilled and braindead as you can get is sorely needed)
Which is why when this game had PvP teams, the handful that were actually properly good (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) managed downstate noticeably better than even the other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players.

No kidding. The whole kitten gameplay revolves around downed state. You need to take those things into consideration but that doesn't mean it's good for the game or fun game play.

You say no kidding, yet you think it is a "noob carrying mechanic" when it is in fact the opposite, it increases the low skill cap of the combat in this game and better players manage downstate better than the noobs.

As for what is fun, that is very subjective, personally when I still played this game more than twice a year I preferred the added depth that downstate provides it is not like the combat (or the mode when it comes to WvW) has mountains of depth to it to begin with, it needs every bit of help it can get in that department. But I guess some like things with as little thought, teamwork and skill as possible.

You don't even play the game I guess that speaks volumes about your lack of understanding.Read my post. Downed state heavily favors a bigger group of players, giving them an even BIGGER advantage on top of already having more players. You don't play the game, you don't read my posts, and you don't know what you're talking about. If you don't even play the game, you don't belong on the forums. Please go away, your "feedback" isn't wanted.

LOL, I've played the game plenty, and I still play very occasionally, apparently enough (unlike some) to understand that downstate is not a "noob carrying mechanic" but the opposite.

As for larger groups, who cares, virtually every mechanic favours larger groups, because guess what you don't design games on the basis of 1v5 (or whatever).

If you can't cope with people pointing out the gaping flaws in your posts, then perhaps you should avoid making QQ threads on a public forum that highlight your own lack of objectivity and understanding of the game.

You're not pointing out anything?Give me examples of where downed state is the OPPOSITE of noob carrying mechanic.Are you baiting ppl into trying to stomp your allies then bursting them down?? You're literally just pointing out what downed state is. I'm saying if you kitten up, ya kitten up. But noo here you are being like "hurr durr, no, I MEANT to screw up and pressing F for 2 seconds ought to give me a 2nd chance even though in LITERALLY ANY OTHER GAME you would've just died and had to respawn.

You already had an example, that the best players in the game (the handful of PvP teams like TCG, Orange logo, etc) handled downstate better than other PvP teams, let alone bad WvW players, the idea that it favours "noobs" over better players is nonsense. It is the opposite downstate favours better, more organised players over worse, less organised players. Go find a guild of decent players and they will rez/stomp better than 5 random guys who only play WvW/PvP once a week.

If a group of vaguely competent players knockback a downed body for a mesmer to blink stomp to reduce the chance of their opponents being able to successfully rez the downed player, you really need me to explain how that adds a layer of teamwork and decision making that would not be there without it?

Same thing long ago when I used to roam with a couple of guys, one of us played engy part of which was because it was good for downstate against superior numbers. E.g - you could save the magnet pull for the focus target just before they went down so it took longer for their team mates to get to the downed body which made the rez / interrupting the stomp less likely (often impossible to stop if elixir s was up). Again that adds teamwork, decision making, etc to the game that would not be there without the downstate mechanic and favours better players rather than "noobs".

You may not like downstate, but it doesn't favour noobs any more than many other mechanics in this game, I mean if you want to complain about mechanics favouring "noobs" then why are you even playing a game that passively aims for you which is the biggest "noob" carry in this game by far.

P.S - GW2 is not the only game with a downstate type mechanic, Apex Legends for instance.

zinkz.7045 · April 7, 2019

@bigo.9037 said:how are you so kitten dense you can't get this through your head man?

The irony.

Svarty.8019 · April 8, 2019

@bigo.9037 said:Tired of it. I still wish anet would get rid of it. I've started to just ignore my roamer friends if they are outnumbered.

Honestly, I'm only replying because Anet has responded to player requests in the past.

That's why I want to add my voice to the anti-side in this topic. I think Downed State is fine, as do a great many other WvW players who aren't here. I'm not going to say everybody loves downed state, but it's a good mechanic that makes the game more fun. The only people who seem to have a gripe are the ones and twoses, the antisocial types, the soloers, gankers. You know... the ones who play a PvP mode gameplay style. Perhaps if Arenanet removed Downed State from PvP first and then considered doing so for the rest of the game, that could be a route - but to come to WvW first... why?

bigo.9037 · April 8, 2019

@Svarty.8019 said:
@"bigo.9037" said:Tired of it. I still wish anet would get rid of it. I've started to just ignore my roamer friends if they are outnumbered.

Honestly, I'm only replying because Anet has responded to player requests in the past.

That's why I want to add my voice to the anti-side in this topic. I think Downed State is fine, as do a great many other WvW players who aren't here. I'm not going to say everybody loves downed state, but it's a good mechanic that makes the game more fun. The only people who seem to have a gripe are the ones and twoses, the antisocial types, the soloers, gankers. You know... the ones who play a PvP mode gameplay style. Perhaps if Arenanet removed Downed State from PvP first and then considered doing so for the rest of the game, that could be a route - but to come to WvW first... why?

It's kinda simple. Although I'd prefer it be removed everywhere except pve, at least in spvp you have equal numbers on both teams and so it's not quite as "unfair" as it would just have been a mistake by the team if they end up getting screwed over by downed state.

But in wvw you regularly encounter groups of varying sizes in different places around the map and so each of those particular fights are very different and sometimes the best option is to not fight at all. Basically you're more likely to end up in "unfair" or outnumbered situations, whether it be you on the side with more or less players. Also, I just play wvw more these days cus match making in spvp is such a joke. Every match is a blowout 50-500 and I just stand afk all game while my team mates win. Not fun, no challenge.

bigo.9037 · April 8, 2019

@zinkz.7045 said:
@bigo.9037 said:how are you so kitten dense you can't get this through your head man?

The irony.

Yea, the irony of you replying this.Please tell me how 2 guys pressing F for 2 seconds requires coordination and skill lmao what a joke

KryTiKaL.3125 · April 8, 2019

@Svarty.8019 said:
@"bigo.9037" said:Tired of it. I still wish anet would get rid of it. I've started to just ignore my roamer friends if they are outnumbered.

Honestly, I'm only replying because Anet has responded to player requests in the past.

That's why I want to add my voice to the anti-side in this topic. I think Downed State is fine, as do a great many other WvW players who aren't here. I'm not going to say everybody loves downed state, but it's a good mechanic that makes the game more fun. The only people who seem to have a gripe are the ones and twoses, the antisocial types, the soloers, gankers. You know... the ones who play a PvP mode gameplay style. Perhaps if Arenanet removed Downed State from PvP first and then considered doing so for the rest of the game, that could be a route - but to come to WvW first... why?

How does the downed state make the game more fun? Genuinely curious as to the reasoning used behind this opinion.

The downed state functions as a res mechanic for players to use as a support tool, to get their friends back into the fight, which is I assume what you might be talking about. I don't think people want ressing to be removed from the game, granted there are people who just spit out "REMOVE DOWNED STATE" and give nothing relating to suggestions towards aspects of gameplay that would be affected by that. Read my above post, if you didn't already, and keep in mind that people likely don't want reviving to go away, they simply don't like the way that it is executed with the downed state and rally with the current state of the game.

Revives should remain a tool in PvP modes and I would very much like Anet to address that with the res skills we already have available (Battle Standard, Spirit of Nature, etc) and possibly even add some. Right now it just prolongs fights and creates irritating scenarios where in an outnumbered scenario, where the larger group might actually lose, they don't because of how reviving currently functions.

steki.1478 · April 8, 2019

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@"bigo.9037" said:Tired of it. I still wish anet would get rid of it. I've started to just ignore my roamer friends if they are outnumbered.

Honestly, I'm only replying because Anet has responded to player requests in the past.

That's why I want to add my voice to the anti-side in this topic. I think Downed State is fine, as do a great many other WvW players who aren't here. I'm not going to say everybody loves downed state, but it's a good mechanic that makes the game more fun. The only people who seem to have a gripe are the ones and twoses, the antisocial types, the soloers, gankers. You know... the ones who play a PvP mode gameplay style. Perhaps if Arenanet removed Downed State from PvP first and then considered doing so for the rest of the game, that could be a route - but to come to WvW first... why?

How does the downed state make the game more fun? Genuinely curious as to the reasoning used behind this opinion.

The downed state functions as a res mechanic for players to use as a support tool, to get their friends back into the fight, which is I assume what you might be talking about. I don't think people want ressing to be removed from the game, granted there are people who just spit out "REMOVE DOWNED STATE" and give nothing relating to suggestions towards aspects of gameplay that would be affected by that. Read my above post, if you didn't already, and keep in mind that people likely don't want

reviving

to go away, they simply don't like the way that it is executed with the downed state and rally with the current state of the game.

Revives should remain a tool in PvP modes and I would very much like Anet to address that with the res skills we already have available (Battle Standard, Spirit of Nature, etc) and possibly even add some. Right now it just prolongs fights and creates irritating scenarios where in an outnumbered scenario, where the larger group might actually lose, they

don't

because of how reviving currently functions.

Then fix the current state of the game, not the core design of it lol

Cleaving downeds was never easier considering that scourges, weavers and heralds are meta.

KryTiKaL.3125 · April 8, 2019

@steki.1478 said:
@KryTiKaL.3125 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@"bigo.9037" said:Tired of it. I still wish anet would get rid of it. I've started to just ignore my roamer friends if they are outnumbered.

Honestly, I'm only replying because Anet has responded to player requests in the past.

That's why I want to add my voice to the anti-side in this topic. I think Downed State is fine, as do a great many other WvW players who aren't here. I'm not going to say everybody loves downed state, but it's a good mechanic that makes the game more fun. The only people who seem to have a gripe are the ones and twoses, the antisocial types, the soloers, gankers. You know... the ones who play a PvP mode gameplay style. Perhaps if Arenanet removed Downed State from PvP first and then considered doing so for the rest of the game, that could be a route - but to come to WvW first... why?

How does the downed state make the game more fun? Genuinely curious as to the reasoning used behind this opinion.

The downed state functions as a res mechanic for players to use as a support tool, to get their friends back into the fight, which is I assume what you might be talking about. I don't think people want ressing to be removed from the game, granted there are people who just spit out "REMOVE DOWNED STATE" and give nothing relating to suggestions towards aspects of gameplay that would be affected by that. Read my above post, if you didn't already, and keep in mind that people likely don't want

reviving

to go away, they simply don't like the way that it is executed with the downed state and rally with the current state of the game.

Revives should remain a tool in PvP modes and I would very much like Anet to address that with the res skills we already have available (Battle Standard, Spirit of Nature, etc) and possibly even add some. Right now it just prolongs fights and creates irritating scenarios where in an outnumbered scenario, where the larger group might actually lose, they

don't

because of how reviving currently functions.

Then fix the current state of the game, not the core design of it lol

Cleaving downeds was never easier considering that scourges, weavers and heralds are meta.

Meta in what situations? Zergs? Weaver kind of ish and herald sure but you’re talking Zerg comps not havoc comps or smaller roaming groups or the solo roamed.

Cleaving downs being easier with them is still a result of that being very one dimensional in terms of large scale combat tactics.

Also the game has developed to the point where if they changed the state of the game as it is now would likely require the significant nerf of healing, significant nerfs to damage and a general massive change to numbers across the board.

I do think there is power creep that needs to get toned down but that would require a stat squish or scaling squish that would be extremely difficult to accomplish when a big part of why the game is in its current state is in large part to many of the class designs changing and evolving yet core gameplay mechanics such as the downed state, Conquest in sPvP, and other things that would be too off topic are outdated as per how the game has changed and these things need attention. Even WvW has seen and will see even more changes in the coming year(s).

They designed a lot of things around a core concept and were initially going to stick with that but time passed and they needed to adjust and change. They didn’t initially want to do expansions, then they needed to change their approach and we have had 2. They weren’t initially planning raids, but now we have raids and it’s a large part of the PvE. They weren’t going to have dedicated healers and now we have dedicated healing. Core concepts of this game have already changed and that’s fine, it’s necessary for growth as a live service, but they do need to pay attention to other aspects of these core mechanics that have now become problematic.

steki.1478 · April 8, 2019

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:
@steki.1478 said:
@KryTiKaL.3125 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@"bigo.9037" said:Tired of it. I still wish anet would get rid of it. I've started to just ignore my roamer friends if they are outnumbered.

Honestly, I'm only replying because Anet has responded to player requests in the past.

That's why I want to add my voice to the anti-side in this topic. I think Downed State is fine, as do a great many other WvW players who aren't here. I'm not going to say everybody loves downed state, but it's a good mechanic that makes the game more fun. The only people who seem to have a gripe are the ones and twoses, the antisocial types, the soloers, gankers. You know... the ones who play a PvP mode gameplay style. Perhaps if Arenanet removed Downed State from PvP first and then considered doing so for the rest of the game, that could be a route - but to come to WvW first... why?

How does the downed state make the game more fun? Genuinely curious as to the reasoning used behind this opinion.

The downed state functions as a res mechanic for players to use as a support tool, to get their friends back into the fight, which is I assume what you might be talking about. I don't think people want ressing to be removed from the game, granted there are people who just spit out "REMOVE DOWNED STATE" and give nothing relating to suggestions towards aspects of gameplay that would be affected by that. Read my above post, if you didn't already, and keep in mind that people likely don't want

reviving

to go away, they simply don't like the way that it is executed with the downed state and rally with the current state of the game.

Revives should remain a tool in PvP modes and I would very much like Anet to address that with the res skills we already have available (Battle Standard, Spirit of Nature, etc) and possibly even add some. Right now it just prolongs fights and creates irritating scenarios where in an outnumbered scenario, where the larger group might actually lose, they

don't

because of how reviving currently functions.

Then fix the current state of the game, not the core design of it lol

Cleaving downeds was never easier considering that scourges, weavers and heralds are meta.

Meta in what situations? Zergs? Weaver kind of ish and herald sure but you’re talking Zerg comps not havoc comps or smaller roaming groups or the solo roamed.

Cleaving downs being easier with them is still a result of that being very one dimensional in terms of large scale combat tactics.

Also the game has developed to the point where if they changed the state of the game as it is now would likely require the significant nerf of healing, significant nerfs to damage and a general massive change to numbers across the board.

I do think there is power creep that needs to get toned down but that would require a stat squish or scaling squish that would be extremely difficult to accomplish when a big part of why the game is in its current state is in large part to many of the class designs changing and evolving yet core gameplay mechanics such as the downed state, Conquest in sPvP, and other things that would be too off topic are

outdated

as per how the game has changed and these things

need

attention. Even WvW has seen and will see even more changes in the coming year(s).

They designed a lot of things around a core concept and were initially going to stick with that but time passed and they needed to adjust and change. They didn’t initially want to do expansions, then they needed to change their approach and we have had 2. They weren’t initially planning raids, but now we have raids and it’s a large part of the PvE. They weren’t going to have dedicated healers and now we have dedicated healing. Core concepts of this game have already changed and that’s fine, it’s necessary for growth as a live service, but they do need to pay attention to other aspects of these core mechanics that have now become problematic.

Let me remind you again that wvw isn't balanced around havoc groups and roaming. Downstate is perfectly balanced there, the only OP things related to it are reviving skills that got buffed for no reason like a year or two ago.

As long as we have soulbeasts oneshotting from 1800 range there's nothing to discuss about roaming and small groups.

KryTiKaL.3125 · April 8, 2019

@steki.1478 said:
@KryTiKaL.3125 said:
@steki.1478 said:
@KryTiKaL.3125 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@"bigo.9037" said:Tired of it. I still wish anet would get rid of it. I've started to just ignore my roamer friends if they are outnumbered.

Honestly, I'm only replying because Anet has responded to player requests in the past.

That's why I want to add my voice to the anti-side in this topic. I think Downed State is fine, as do a great many other WvW players who aren't here. I'm not going to say everybody loves downed state, but it's a good mechanic that makes the game more fun. The only people who seem to have a gripe are the ones and twoses, the antisocial types, the soloers, gankers. You know... the ones who play a PvP mode gameplay style. Perhaps if Arenanet removed Downed State from PvP first and then considered doing so for the rest of the game, that could be a route - but to come to WvW first... why?

How does the downed state make the game more fun? Genuinely curious as to the reasoning used behind this opinion.

The downed state functions as a res mechanic for players to use as a support tool, to get their friends back into the fight, which is I assume what you might be talking about. I don't think people want ressing to be removed from the game, granted there are people who just spit out "REMOVE DOWNED STATE" and give nothing relating to suggestions towards aspects of gameplay that would be affected by that. Read my above post, if you didn't already, and keep in mind that people likely don't want

reviving

to go away, they simply don't like the way that it is executed with the downed state and rally with the current state of the game.

Revives should remain a tool in PvP modes and I would very much like Anet to address that with the res skills we already have available (Battle Standard, Spirit of Nature, etc) and possibly even add some. Right now it just prolongs fights and creates irritating scenarios where in an outnumbered scenario, where the larger group might actually lose, they

don't

because of how reviving currently functions.

Then fix the current state of the game, not the core design of it lol

Cleaving downeds was never easier considering that scourges, weavers and heralds are meta.

Meta in what situations? Zergs? Weaver kind of ish and herald sure but you’re talking Zerg comps not havoc comps or smaller roaming groups or the solo roamed.

Cleaving downs being easier with them is still a result of that being very one dimensional in terms of large scale combat tactics.

Also the game has developed to the point where if they changed the state of the game as it is now would likely require the significant nerf of healing, significant nerfs to damage and a general massive change to numbers across the board.

I do think there is power creep that needs to get toned down but that would require a stat squish or scaling squish that would be extremely difficult to accomplish when a big part of why the game is in its current state is in large part to many of the class designs changing and evolving yet core gameplay mechanics such as the downed state, Conquest in sPvP, and other things that would be too off topic are

outdated

as per how the game has changed and these things

need

attention. Even WvW has seen and will see even more changes in the coming year(s).

They designed a lot of things around a core concept and were initially going to stick with that but time passed and they needed to adjust and change. They didn’t initially want to do expansions, then they needed to change their approach and we have had 2. They weren’t initially planning raids, but now we have raids and it’s a large part of the PvE. They weren’t going to have dedicated healers and now we have dedicated healing. Core concepts of this game have already changed and that’s fine, it’s necessary for growth as a live service, but they do need to pay attention to other aspects of these core mechanics that have now become problematic.

Let me remind you again that wvw isn't balanced around havoc groups and roaming. Downstate is perfectly balanced there, the only OP things related to it are reviving skills that got buffed for no reason like a year or two ago.

As long as we have soulbeasts oneshotting from 1800 range there's nothing to discuss about roaming and small groups.

Right, and you realize I mentioned that such builds like the Soulbeast one need to be addressed as well in a situation where they would make these changes.

Also I’m aware that WvW isn’t balanced around roaming and havocs but I would argue that those aspects of WvW need attention especially considering that the one shot Soulbeast exists at all within that context.

I think people are mistaking the intention behind discussing removing downed state. Even in situations with havocs and smaller scale roaming it is a problematic and frustrating mechanic for reasons I have already detailed if you take a moment to read through a previous post of mine. I also already detailed how it could even be beneficial to gameplay itself in both zergs and small scale roaming/havocs and that it could actually bring a bit more build diversity and several other elements of more healthy counterplay to revives during fights either in similarly numbered fights or outnumbered fights.

A piece of the discussion is implying that they need to start considering aspects of balance outside of just zergs and account for all of these roles that players choose to play in WvW or just PvP in general.

Remember, I have already mentioned and reiterated my desire for them to remove downed state and rally but keep a revive mechanic by changing or adding revive skills to keep that tactical aspect during prolonged fights.

bigo.9037 · April 8, 2019

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:
@steki.1478 said:
@KryTiKaL.3125 said:
@steki.1478 said:
@KryTiKaL.3125 said:
@Svarty.8019 said:
@"bigo.9037" said:Tired of it. I still wish anet would get rid of it. I've started to just ignore my roamer friends if they are outnumbered.