Cadence of Content

[Turin.6921]

I definitely see the point in this. Gw2 very seldomly has an issue of frequent updates (at least in open world) but even before the company expanded and started other projects Anet had big issues keeping a constant cadence. And that can easily affect the player retention even if the actual content in terms of amount is there. A good road map with realistic deadlines/cadence that you can more or less meet goes a long way to retain players. And gw2 only really managed to do this in LS3 leading to PoF. Just 1.5 years out of 7 years of lifetime.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

For an MMO of this level (comparable to FF14, ESO etc.) GW2 released the fewest expansions and now they even haven't announced anything. I really am the person who wants an expansion every two years (give or take) with several new maps, new features etc. That's what I expect and if they can't deliver people will play other games and maybe never return. Player retention is important and expansions are here for that. Those Living World updates won't do it.

[preacher.9370]

that was something i liked with SWTOR and the eternal empire story line, every month a new chapter was out. Granted i'm sure Bioware is bigger than Anet, and we'll never see content releases that close together... heck, anet can barely manage to make story releases at least playable when they drop them...

[zealex.9410]

Chris From ggg put it well, regardless if the game is an arpg, an mmo or a br players leaving with the intent to return is what you want. If players dont know when they will return because they dont know when the game will update isnt good, itcreates a gap between the players and that game.

Ppl will inevitably leave the game, the point is to give them something to look forward to in a timely manner and the desire to log back in when thats out.

He also said that ppl may not play, but ppl still visit in large the forums, websites etc amd most importandly ppl still buy, because, they know that in x weeks new stuff will be out and they can plqy that stuff with their new mtx.

This is kind of a point that a non rotating store actually offers some cons as opposed to the rotating (which i believe gw2 could benefit from). He said alot of ppl buy stuff even when they dont play the game because when they pick it back up they will have those items.

Bottom line, yes POE is an arpg, that doesnt mean there arent things in that gdc talk that gw2 could absolutely learn fom and improve in a big way.

[Zaklex.6308]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Maybe you missed this?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/72842/what-s-next-for-guild-wars-2/p1

This doesnt adress his feedback.

That's true in a sense, but if you've been around long enough you already know the release cadence of content, unless you're specifically looking for an expansion pack, in which case they won't say anything until it's almost done or close to it(which is normally how'd they announce an expansion for GW2).

Thats also not true, we dont have a cadence, we have an estimation. Theres no agency in "We'd want episodes to release in a 2-3 month period, but that doesnt mean they will, they might take 4 or even 5 months but 2-3 would be cool"

A game that looks to have a healthy and growing base will look to reassure its players that content cadence will have a plan that it will follow. Not saying mistakes and delays are out of the question but anet even in a flawless season isnt consistent enough.

Theres also the whole thing of giving players the knowledge of a content map on how/when content will release in an anual timeframe. Path of Exile is a good example of that, as well as Eso and even WoW with its rather inconsostent expansion.

Based on this: cadence[keyd-ns]:

rhythmic flow of a sequence of sounds or words:the cadence of language.(in free verse) a rhythmic pattern that is nonmetrically structured.the beat, rate, or measure of any rhythmic movement:The chorus line danced in rapid cadence.the flow or rhythm of events, especially the pattern in which something is experienced:the frenetic cadence of modern life.a slight falling in pitch of the voice in speaking or reading, as at the end of a declarative sentence.

They have a cadence, because a cadence can and does vary...even something like 2 4 3 4 2 is a cadence, not one that people might like, but it's a cadence.

[Rasimir.6239]

@"Loboling.5293" said:And it got me thinking a bit about some of what I feel could be improved with this game. And that is the content release schedule. Being able to stick to a release cycle, that allows your player base to incorporate it into their schedules, ends up having huge impacts on retain-ability and growth.Every Saturday my husband asks the kids and myself what our plans for the weekend are. Every Saturday I answer that I want to relax and enjoy myself, and see what comes up that interests me.

There are people like my husband that need their lives organized. They love plans and try to stick to them, and they are very uncomfortable if the "future" is unknown and they can't plan around it. And then there are people like myself that prefer to go where life takes them, to leave things open and take the opportunities that turn up. I mean, if you ask me today what I want to do tomorrow, I can give you a rough outline of what I might like to do, but there's a good chance an opportunity will show up that I didn't expect, like a friend coming around or the sun luring me to take an extended walk around the countryside, and I'll go for that and put the "I'd like to..." ideas on the back burner for another weekend.

Past experiences have made me suspect that Anet falls pretty heavily into the second category. They've found out they'd rather keep the artistic freedom to develop and release what comes up to their expectations whenever it's ready, than paint themselves in the corner with a pre-set schedule only to find what they have at that point doesn't live up to their expectations. HoT release was a good example of that, they've announced a release date and a large set of features quite a bit before hand, only to find that things didn't work out. The community as a whole didn't take kindly to that.

Are there players that are turned off for not having a reliable release schedule? Of course there are. Would there be other players (or possibly even the same ones) turned off if Anet wouldn't keep to the announced schedule? Of course there would. Only Anet themselves have an idea how a fixed schedule would impact what they deliver, but seeing how they tried that in several ways in the past and even did mention that the season 1 releases weren't sustainable, I suspect they have their own reason for not publishing a content release schedule.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@Rasimir.6239 said:Are there players that are turned off for not having a reliable release schedule? Of course there are. Would there be other players (or possibly even the same ones) turned off if Anet wouldn't keep to the announced schedule? Of course there would. Only Anet themselves have an idea how a fixed schedule would impact what they deliver, but seeing how they tried that in several ways in the past and even did mention that the season 1 releases weren't sustainable, I suspect they have their own reason for not publishing a content release schedule.

There is a solution to this problem and it's...keeping to the announced schedule. This very thread shows there are mmos out there that manage to do just that.

Beside LS1 have they gone on record about LS2 schedule being unsustainable? I mean, the reason (that was communicated) was to provide a map with each episode, from what I remember. But that's not an issue anymore according to the latest post. Have they ever addressed LS4 being even less tightly scheduled than 3? Besides the obvious reason for this episode's delay that is.

Release schedule issues need to be addressed because the expectation of an expansion is not present anymore. And its absence can only magnify them.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If maps aren't coming with Living World Season 5, how 'bout we wait and see how their schedule works out? Maybe the releases will be right on the dot of 2 months, or 3 months, or somewhere in-between. If so, then ArenaNet has stated their release schedule...in advance.

[Rasimir.6239]

@"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:There is a solution to this problem and it's...keeping to the announced schedule.History has shown that Anet isn't always satisfied with what they come up with to a given deadline, so they had to (and have to) choose between sticking to schedules and releasing what they feel is the best they come up with. As I said, whether you'd rather have the fixed schedule or the release Anet is most comfortable with is different for each individual, and there's a lot of in-between positions, but "fixed schedule and fully satisfying (for Anet as well as the players) release" doesn't seem to be on the table, or we'd have had that for a long time.

[zealex.9410]

What they feel is the best they come up with is subjective imo. Unless something is broke literally unplayable then idk if its basic or it tries to revolutionise content updates and reach new heights.

Even if the updates take their full circle and then some they can still come out bad or underwhelming. Id rather see more releases than gamble on a few that take longer, because they might be of "better quality"

[zealex.9410]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:If maps aren't coming with Living World Season 5, how 'bout we wait and see how their schedule works out? Maybe the releases will be right on the dot of 2 months, or 3 months, or somewhere in-between. If so, then ArenaNet has stated their release schedule...in advance.

There will be maps with se5.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Not according to the above poster.

[zealex.9410]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Not according to the above poster.

The post doesnt give a clear cut answer but hopefully thats not case. s5 could be even more underwhelming if we dont at least get a map or 2.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Just clarifying that that was what my post was responding to.
I'm sure we will receive either new maps or changed previous maps.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Just clarifying that that was what my post was responding to.

I'm sure we will receive either new maps or changed previous maps.

The way I understood the recent post by Anet is that we are going to get some new maps and some reworked/extended older ones. I have no way of knowing the percentage but I'm pretty sure we are not getting a map each episode with LS5. Otherwise they wouldn't have said anything at this time.

The reason I mentioned it was because it was presented as one of the driving factors behind the scheduling change from S2 to S3 and 4.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

The release schedule has been pretty damn satisfying since LW3 up to this point. The staff shift has been big and we won't know what comes of it until about half a year later, when those teams' work actually reaches development output. For now lets enjoy the end of the season and see what the new one brings.

[zealex.9410]

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Just clarifying that that was what my post was responding to.

I'm sure we will receive either new maps or changed previous maps.

The way I understood the recent post by Anet is that we are going to get some new maps and some reworked/extended older ones. I have no way of knowing the percentage but I'm pretty sure we are not getting a map each episode with LS5. Otherwise they wouldn't have said anything at this time.

The reason I mentioned it was because it was presented as one of the driving factors behind the scheduling change from S2 to S3 and 4.

It was? I thought it was publicly stated as "we want to reach a certain lvl of quality".

[zealex.9410]

@"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:The release schedule has been pretty kitten satisfying since LW3 up to this point. The staff shift has been big and we won't know what comes of it until about half a year later, when those teams' work actually reaches development output. For now lets enjoy the end of the season and see what the new one brings.

It has been serviceable to not call the game "on maintainance mode" other than that the release schedule has been pretty week.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

At this pace we are close to 4 months between releases which is about double the time they intended to release those ls stories. But we are used to it...