Take AR out of infusion

Illconceived Was Na.9781 · April 16, 2019

@Linken.6345 said:Fractal god&godess title need some infusions.
Mist Attunement 4 requires one each of agony reduction infusions +13, +14, +15, and +16.
Respectively, those require spending 4k, 8k, 16k, and 32k AR+1 infusions
Total spent: 61.44k infusions

By comparison, AR 150 can be achieved from seventeen AR+9 infusions per character, requiring ~4.3k AR+1 infusions, using the simplest (not the cheapest) method. Accordingly full Deroir costs, at most, the equivalent of outfitting 9-10 characters.

Mist Attunement 4 does include account bound AR of the sort the OP requests, a total of 20 AR. Ignoring the other costs, that's at best a reduction of costs from 4.3k AR+1 per toon (using seventeen AR+9 infusions) to 3.8k (using fifteen AR+9 infusions), i.e. spending 61k to reduce current spending by 0.5k AR+1.

That leaves ANet with two clear options:

Make agony infusions worthless in a single day, by requiring a 1:1 replacement for account bound AR
Put agony resistance cost out of reach of, well, everyone, by requiring 4-5 million agony infusions per account

The first option means the OP is wrong about being able to convert AR to shinies (as it would lose any economic value); the second option means the OP is wrong about whether it would even be affordable to anyone.

Illconceived Was Na.9781 · April 16, 2019

When muscles fail they turn to their math...You think that a business like ArenaNet ... should not use math as part of predicting the consequences of changes they are considering?

phs.6089 · April 16, 2019

@Rico.6873 said:I always found it odd the 5+ stat also has a 5 AR statwhy the 5 AR stat?What use does it have?If your gonna do fractals with it, it needs to be 9+5+ AR is useless in T4 fractalsSo why does it exist then!!!?

Raids don't need AR, while additional 80 (somethign) stats can be somehow useful, so raid merchant has 5/5 infusions (lowest stats AR infusions) as it's the only way to get your gear to absolute top stats in game.Hence most raids builds include 5/5 not 5/9 as for fractals.

melandru.3876 · April 16, 2019

@phs.6089 said:
@Rico.6873 said:I always found it odd the 5+ stat also has a 5 AR statwhy the 5 AR stat?What use does it have?If your gonna do fractals with it, it needs to be 9+5+ AR is useless in T4 fractalsSo why does it exist then!!!?

Raids don't need AR, while additional 80 (somethign) stats can be somehow useful, so raid merchant has 5/5 infusions (lowest stats AR infusions) as it's the only way to get your gear to absolute top stats in game.Hence most raids builds include 5/5 not 5/9 as for fractals.

wrong

@Cyninja.2954 said:
18 slots x 5 = 9090 + 20 (Agony Imp. 4) + 20 (Mist Att. 4) + 5 Rigorous Certainty + 15 Anguished Tear of Alba (10 base +5 from Fractal Mastery) = 150
Why are +9 infusions needed?
Simple answer: +5/5 are both remnants from the past as well as they offer choice in optimizing ones AR.

there is no differnce in raid gear and fractal gear, so why would u put no ar in raid gear if u will use the same set for fracs?this only works for fractal gods, as can be seen in the post

if u only raid u could just use the wvw infusions those are far cheaper, and give u +5 stats aswell

melandru.3876 · April 16, 2019

@Balsa.3951 said:
@Voltekka.2375 said:
@melandru.3876 said:
@Balsa.3951 said:
@melandru.3876 said:lol this still going? oh welp here i am againOP also fails to understand that those "shiny auras" he'd so like to mention are amonst the most valuable items in the game, just look at the prices.
do you think it will only take 500 ar for an aura? no it will probably come close to 500 million, which again only a tiny % of the actual fractal playerbase will actually achievehe/she makes it sound like everyone will be able to get them, but the numbers on gw2efficiency don't lie. only a very miniscul part of the population is actually able to get those.lets strip everything from the value ebcause "i want it, and i want it now" mentality of some that have little to no patience
that would also mean rip crystal oasis meta, why do it when u have another way of getting the aura right?that would also mean rip tangled depths aura, why do it when u have another way of getting the aura right?
and pretty much any boss/meta that is done just for the 0.00000000000000000001% on an infusion drop
but the best part! no more need for ascended gear, so anyone in his exotics will be able to join, there are no gearchecks, and kp can still be faked (have to kick a player atleast once a week)good that we have arcdps, those that are faking get exposed really fast. but that makes the fractal/raid community "toxic" right?as i'm not allowed to have a smooth clear, it's even forbidden. the fun of others is more important then my own

Makes no sense acendend gear not necessary anymore bcs no AR ? People will only go for exotic gear but arc dps will catch them bcs they have less dps ....

Ok this one u solved urself

Other auras are no value anymore because u can get auras from fractal ... nice straw man but nobody ever said that u get a confetti infusion from fractals.

Crying about prices that AR get to much value bcs Auras will cost so much while crying AR will loose all value.... okey

Maybe u can talk on point and not made up panic stories to get ur propaganda vs my idea to run

i am a straw man?you are hiding behind a vague idea, with little to no info and then when someone says something you use your own vague-ness as a bail outYOU never said which auras, and which not would be purchasable, so it's only safe to assume this includes every one since you did not mention a single onewhen i mentiuon an aura you are like "no i never said this one" that's true you didn't say a single thing

^ see? you are hiding, and using false info as an excuse..which is sad

and yes, why would anyone (you are talking about newer players all the time, don't hide yet again on this aswell) go for ascended gear when they don't need it anymore with your ar-reworkveterans, allready have ascended gear so they are completly unaffectednew players won't need ascended gear, so they are complelty unaffected

you are now using arcdps as a measure to find out who has ascended gear and who not?

1) not everyone uses arcdps2) not everyone on ascended gear will perform like it "should"3) not everyone in exotics can't perform good

^so what will you exactly check?

and regarding the ar cost for those auras, don't you think it's only natural that the most expensive items in the game (auras) will cost a mountain of ar?how would you translate an item worth 10.000 gold to an ar cost. make it cost 1000 ar??? then everyone with a semi-budget, or does fractals on a daily base would have those within a week with the current +1 infusions ratio from dailies

all i see and hear is you twisting your own idea/vision to back you up when someone disagrees with youthator, i want a shiny aura but i don't have enough gold so i'll ask for a simplified version.

in every thread you keep changing your mind back and forth.

in thread a you are like : i want legendary armor with no unique skin, just for the qol stat change
then in the next thread you want the same skins as raid legendary has@Balsa.3951 said:Anet could solve that issue by making legendary armor available for each game mode. The raiders can be generous and let non raider farm it as well.Same skins as raid
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/887925#Comment_887925
in yet another thread you want legendary weapons aswell@Balsa.3951 said:I would add Legendary Weapons to it as well without special skins but swap able stats
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/887656#Comment_887656

you want alot but don't know what you want

legendary gear? legendary weapons? unique skins? or just for "stat swapping" as you pointed out so often?

i i i i, me myself and i

oh, you can maybe also make a new thread for the new players about gathering tools. it's unfair that the new players don't have shiny aura effects when they gather with their copper harvesting tools, they also deserve shiny effects like those who forked out 1000 gems per piece

i'm sure many new players would like that, we can maybe make iron ore a resource, or onions, that if you ate enough onions you can use the other onions to buy shiny gathering effects

He does that a lot, in all modes. Even in wvw. I genuinely think it is some sort of trolling at this point.

I did a post in wvw about mobility is needed and yes I got attacked a lot as well a month later we got Warclaw and u probably sitting on my suggestion every day when go wvw

I also made a post of make all drops unidentifiable gear now it’s here

Hope does it feel to talk to a troll who is so often right in the end?

and i'm not hating you, you did have some great ideas in this past

but on (fractal) legendary gear and this ar overhaul i simply don't support this..at all

Obtena.7952 · April 16, 2019

@Balsa.3951 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Balsa.3951 said:
@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
@Balsa.3951 said:
@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
@Balsa.3951 said:I wrote about 4 times already u can sell unused AR to get shiny infusion.That's a common misconception about game economics.

If ANet made AR account bound the way you have outlined, unused AR would be worth nothing. The entire reason why AR+9 is still worth 7 gold today (compared to 40 gold in 2015) is that it's character bound. Unless ANet spends the time to figure out new sinks (a) every Fractal veterans investment in AR is lost and (b) rewards for completing fractals drop as well.

I said u consume ar and its account bound the one u don’t consume stays the same ...

Hope that helps

I exposes the continued misunderstanding of the consequences of making AR account bound. Take a veteran with one of each profession equipped with AR 125, ignoring those who overcap (for stats), to keep things simple. That amounts to eighteen AR+7 on each of nine characters. That cost them approximately 275 gold to enjoy their workaround of account bound AR.

With you in charge of fractal rewards, each of veteran would use 1/9 of that to setup their new status and sell the remainder. The problem is: all of them would be selling that AR the same week (unless they were skritt out of luck and out of town that week). The supply would jump, while the demand would plummet... because no veteran would ever buy AR again and novices need only buy it once. So instead of having 245 gold to spend on shinies, they'd have closer to 5-10 gold, not even enough for ascended gear.

Worse, all the AR that currently drops from fractals would be worth the same as Mini Professor Mews, meaning that fractals would become less rewarding.

tl;dr If ANet made AR account bound the way you have outlined, unused AR would be worth nothing.Hope that helps you.

U know that anet easily can put an AR sink in like we had with leather. That’s why I said u can buy auras with them plus the value of AR is already spiral down according to ur all veterans are capped arguments. My proposal would give infinite uses of ar instead.

Auras/ skin etc compare to AR infusion only

Sure they can ... but why would they make this change ... just to have your idea make sense? if your idea needs a whole bunch of back up ideas to 'fix' it, then that's hardly a way to sell your idea to change something that already works.

First Anet stated already they regret putting AR on armor so what’s ur point about my idea makes no sense ?

Anet has technically difficulties to change that system that’s all. Nothing about idea it’s about investment of time to fix a mistake.

So don’t try to pretend the idea is new and outrages without logic.

How about u tell me what is fun on the AR system now ?

I'm not going to tell you what fun it is because fun isn't the only reason to change or not change things. I'm not pretending the idea is new and outrages without logic. EVERYTHING about your idea is an investment in Anet's time to change it; that's just absurd to think it won't cost Anet time to implement a whole new AR system.

I think I was pretty clear; if your idea needs a handful of backup ideas to make it work, it's not likely going to happen because it's just easier to leave it as it is. The fact is that despite the negative things about it, it works and the reason to change is needs to be a little better than what's being offered here.

Rico.6873 · April 16, 2019

@phs.6089 said:
@Rico.6873 said:I always found it odd the 5+ stat also has a 5 AR statwhy the 5 AR stat?What use does it have?If your gonna do fractals with it, it needs to be 9+5+ AR is useless in T4 fractalsSo why does it exist then!!!?

Raids don't need AR, while additional 80 (somethign) stats can be

somehow useful,

so raid merchant has 5/5 infusions (lowest stats AR infusions) as it's the only way to get your gear to absolute top stats in game.Hence most raids builds include 5/5 not 5/9 as for fractals.

I really cant see any use in the all around 80 Agony Resistance, eventually you will want it to 150 and there is no way to upgrade it to a 9....At least as far as I know, if the 5 AR with stat CAN be upgraded to a 9 AR with stats then its alright with me.But without the upgrade option the 5 AR stat is wasted on Raid upgrade infusions

Cyninja.2954 · April 16, 2019

@Rico.6873 said:
@phs.6089 said:
@Rico.6873 said:I always found it odd the 5+ stat also has a 5 AR statwhy the 5 AR stat?What use does it have?If your gonna do fractals with it, it needs to be 9+5+ AR is useless in T4 fractalsSo why does it exist then!!!?

Raids don't need AR, while additional 80 (somethign) stats can be

somehow useful,

so raid merchant has 5/5 infusions (lowest stats AR infusions) as it's the only way to get your gear to absolute top stats in game.Hence most raids builds include 5/5 not 5/9 as for fractals.

I really cant see any use in the all around 80 Agony Resistance, eventually you will want it to 150 and

there is no way to upgrade it to a 9

....At least as far as I know, if the 5 AR with stat CAN be upgraded to a 9 AR with stats then its alright with me.But without the upgrade option the 5 AR stat is wasted on Raid upgrade infusions

You are incorrect.First:You can upgrade +5/5s into +5/7 and then into +5/9s if so desired https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_5_Agony_InfusionSecond:As mentioned earlier, you do not NEED +9s.

The raid +5/5s allow raiders to get their fractal +5/5s, +5/7s or +5/9s via raid tokens if they so desire.

Curunen.8729 · April 16, 2019

I hate the separate AR and wvw +% damage to/from guards system. Hate it with a passion ever since it was made.

Just makes switching between fractals and wvw unnecessarily awkward and waste of time/effort to swap all these. It's half the reason I binge fractals when wanting rewards in the past, then dump all the infusions and not touch them - too much hassle to swap constantly just to do t4 dailies...

I don't care how it's done, but would be overjoyed to see both these streamlined into a single infusion system that can be used across all game modes.

melandru.3876 · April 16, 2019

@Curunen.8729 said:I hate the separate AR and wvw +% damage to/from guards system. Hate it with a passion ever since it was made.
Just makes switching between fractals and wvw unnecessarily awkward and waste of time/effort to swap all these. It's half the reason I binge fractals when wanting rewards in the past, then dump all the infusions and not touch them - too much hassle to swap constantly just to do t4 dailies...
I don't care how it's done, but would be overjoyed to see both these streamlined into a single infusion system that can be used across all game modes.

but why would you even need wvw infusions, in wvware you dying to veteran sentries?

regular infusion work just fine

wvw infusions only work for npc's in wvw, those are of no concern anyway

Curunen.8729 · April 16, 2019

@melandru.3876 said:
@Curunen.8729 said:I hate the separate AR and wvw +% damage to/from guards system. Hate it with a passion ever since it was made.
Just makes switching between fractals and wvw unnecessarily awkward and waste of time/effort to swap all these. It's half the reason I binge fractals when wanting rewards in the past, then dump all the infusions and not touch them - too much hassle to swap constantly just to do t4 dailies...
I don't care how it's done, but would be overjoyed to see both these streamlined into a single infusion system that can be used across all game modes.

but why would you even need wvw infusions, in wvware you dying to veteran sentries?

regular infusion work just fine

wvw infusions only work for npc's in wvw, those are of no concern anyway

Because when you're 1v3 in an enemy camp, to name one of a myriad of scenarios, it can be the difference between you winning or eating dirt. There are more than just npcs...

While it's not crucial, every little advantage allows you to take on more challenging situations.

Also guard killer endurance regain is stupidly overpowered mechanic - the more efficiently it can be got, the better.

melandru.3876 · April 16, 2019

@Curunen.8729 said:
@melandru.3876 said:
@Curunen.8729 said:I hate the separate AR and wvw +% damage to/from guards system. Hate it with a passion ever since it was made.
Just makes switching between fractals and wvw unnecessarily awkward and waste of time/effort to swap all these. It's half the reason I binge fractals when wanting rewards in the past, then dump all the infusions and not touch them - too much hassle to swap constantly just to do t4 dailies...
I don't care how it's done, but would be overjoyed to see both these streamlined into a single infusion system that can be used across all game modes.

but why would you even need wvw infusions, in wvware you dying to veteran sentries?

regular infusion work just fine

wvw infusions only work for npc's in wvw, those are of no concern anyway

Because when you're 1v3 in an enemy camp, to name one of a myriad of scenarios, it can be the difference between you winning or eating dirt. There are more than just npcs...

While it's not crucial, every little advantage allows you to take on more challenging situations.

Also guard killer endurance regain is stupidly overpowered mechanic - the more efficiently it can be got, the better.

if you win 1vs3 (+ those 3 having several veteran guards) then you would have won anyway as it means those 3 are beyond clueless on what to do lolprobably some pve people trying to do wvw dailies, in their whatever dps build

i fought the same, landing a 13k arcing slice when there were rezzing, yea didn't end well, 3 downs then juicy whispers "cheater cheater"

Curunen.8729 · April 17, 2019

@melandru.3876 said:
@Curunen.8729 said:
@melandru.3876 said:
@Curunen.8729 said:I hate the separate AR and wvw +% damage to/from guards system. Hate it with a passion ever since it was made.
Just makes switching between fractals and wvw unnecessarily awkward and waste of time/effort to swap all these. It's half the reason I binge fractals when wanting rewards in the past, then dump all the infusions and not touch them - too much hassle to swap constantly just to do t4 dailies...
I don't care how it's done, but would be overjoyed to see both these streamlined into a single infusion system that can be used across all game modes.

but why would you even need wvw infusions, in wvware you dying to veteran sentries?

regular infusion work just fine

wvw infusions only work for npc's in wvw, those are of no concern anyway

Because when you're 1v3 in an enemy camp, to name one of a myriad of scenarios, it can be the difference between you winning or eating dirt. There are more than just npcs...

While it's not crucial, every little advantage allows you to take on more challenging situations.

Also guard killer endurance regain is stupidly overpowered mechanic - the more efficiently it can be got, the better.

if you win 1vs3 (+ those 3 having several veteran guards) then you would have won anyway as it means those 3 are beyond clueless on what to do lolprobably some pve people trying to do wvw dailies, in their whatever dps build

i fought the same, landing a 13k arcing slice when there were rezzing, yea didn't end well, 3 downs then juicy whispers "cheater cheater"

But when eg it's an intense 1v2 against good players I'll take any advantage - if it means getting free endurance etc. Had that situation with a druid/boonbeast the other day in their camp. And again today vs good slb/core war which I eventually kited out of the camp after some time.

We could debate the infinite spectrum of scenarios but whatever the case I stand by my opinion that maximising any advantage, such as from infusions, will have a beneficial consequence in at least one situation. At the minimum the reduced ttk (or damage taken, for people running those infusions) on guards is a nice quality of life bonus.

Bottom line is why not have them - if on the flipside the only reason is convenience to not have to swap for fractals.

MithranArkanere.8957 · April 17, 2019

AR would be better as an account bound system, since it'd make easier for players to switch characters.But it'll take time to change the system.

First, AR would still need to require ascended gear as it provides extra stats and armor. If it was available with exotic gear, people would enter higher tier fractals being less prepared than usual. So account AR could scale to the number of ascended items equipped (2h weapons would count as 2 items, of course).

Second, infusions should still exist and have uses, even if it's just +5 stats, since there's other kinds of infusions other than AR, like the WvW ones.That or we'd also need need a rework for those too, like an "Ascended Gear Mastery" for WvW that gives access to the infusion bonuses as account bonuses with a progression system.

And it'd be better if the infusion visuals were unlockable. So you could either bring them in your gear, or equip them in the wardrobe. But it'd be preferable if they could not be stacked too much. I'd go with just 6 slots for extra visuals, and limiting visuals to 6 slots, giving preference to the account slots, amulet, back, chest, legs, head and shoulders. Past 6 visual effects, the rest would not show.

melandru.3876 · April 17, 2019

@Curunen.8729 said:
@melandru.3876 said:
@Curunen.8729 said:
@melandru.3876 said:
@Curunen.8729 said:I hate the separate AR and wvw +% damage to/from guards system. Hate it with a passion ever since it was made.
Just makes switching between fractals and wvw unnecessarily awkward and waste of time/effort to swap all these. It's half the reason I binge fractals when wanting rewards in the past, then dump all the infusions and not touch them - too much hassle to swap constantly just to do t4 dailies...
I don't care how it's done, but would be overjoyed to see both these streamlined into a single infusion system that can be used across all game modes.