So the commander is he better then the hero of guild wars 1?

[adormtil.1605]

Actually

Kormir: I was there to contain the damage, but by then it was too late.Kormir: The surge of power upended the balance of magic in Tyria, and stirred Primordus from his slumber—triggering this latest cycle of destruction.Kormir: There is no victory to be found in a war between the gods. Only casualties.

Well not absorbed but it went into Tyria and made Primordius closer to awakening. So Kormir did not absorbed the full power of Abbadon. That being said I know Abbadon killed an older god in the past to get his powers but who was the second god?He was the strongest god being god of magic also helped sure and yes he could change Tyria from his plane while elder dragons have to be there to do it but there where half an dozen elite heroes there to kill him ,the hero of Guild Wars 2 tried to kill Kralkatorrik in an similar way but failed which does not bode well for him. But Kralkatorrik did not took the power of an demigod Balthassar was stripped of his godly powers what he had was an bloodstone power and an decent amount of power from 2 elder dragons not all of course. An point in path of fire was that for him to surpass the other gods was that he needed the full power of an elder dragon. Which says an lot of how much power an elder dragon has.

[Poormany.4507]

@adormtil.1605 said:The title says it all is the commander of Guild Wars 2 an better leader then the one in guild wars 1?

No, but he sure is better at cracking witty jokes every other line.

The GW2 PC felt like a real commander up through core and somewhat during LWS2 when they made strategic decisions that had impact on others in their team and had to deal with the consequences of those choices. After that, as other have said, the PC just takes orders from everyone else and feels more like hired muscle at this point to just smash whatever is in the way and let others (i.e. Taimi and Glint) do most of the leading and decision making. Kinda agree with Joko that PC is kind of clueless to what they've done, especially

suddenly deciding it's a great idea to attack Kralk in the last episode.

Really hope the PC gets at least some critique from their teammates during the next episode for that decision.

GW1 PC just felt like they had their own initiative and made their own strategies more during all three campaigns and had to rely less on others to directly make those decisions for them.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

Which seems odd, to me. Prophecies, Factions, and War in Kryta are almost nothing but the PC taking instruction- which makes sense, given that we spend most of those storylines either a member of or working for a larger organization. EotN, Winds of Change, and the latter parts of Nightfall were different, but if you're after an independence fantasy, GW1 doesn't feel like a good fit.

The GW2 PC, on the other hand, had a good deal of latitude in their missions, even when we were in the Pact... to the point that people objected to it, because it seemed like the Commander was pulling ideas out of the blue, unprompted. More recently, we've had people working for us, which is something the GW1 PC could barely claim. We've directed Taimi to find solutions to some of our problems; it'd be bizarre not to take her ideas into account after that. (I've never felt too guided by Glint's Legacy either, mostly because there's just been so little to actually steer by. It feels like the PC never hears about the next piece until they've stumbled blindly into it anyway... which is probably why we seem to have done such a good job of breaking it.)

EDIT: Thinking a bit more on it, I wonder if it has less to do with the story and more to do with the gameplay. GW1 had more meaningful build decisions to make when approaching the PvE campaign, and when it presented a challenge, it basically left you to figure out how to deal with it on your own. By contrast GW2 gameplay railroads you. As long as your build meets a basic level of competency, the only decision you're making is remembering to make a quick swap to a CC right before the boss fight. When this game gives you a challenge, it usually clearly signposts how you're supposed to solve it, and if there is a second option at all, it's just that the build you use for every other fight is so mind-numbingly successful that it negates the intended mechanic. (Granted, I hear that might have also been true of top-level GW1 play, but I never got into the hero customization you needed to make those strats work for solo play. Back then it felt like breaking the game; in GW2, it feels like the game's guiding you towards breaking it.)

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"adormtil.1605" said:Actually

Kormir: I was there to contain the damage, but by then it was too late.Kormir: The surge of power upended the balance of magic in Tyria, and stirred Primordus from his slumber—triggering this latest cycle of destruction.Kormir: There is no victory to be found in a war between the gods. Only casualties.

Well not absorbed but it went into Tyria and made Primordius closer to awakening. So Kormir did not absorbed the full power of Abbadon. That being said I know Abbadon killed an older god in the past to get his powers but who was the second god?He was the strongest god being god of magic also helped sure and yes he could change Tyria from his plane while elder dragons have to be there to do it but there where half an dozen elite heroes there to kill him ,the hero of Guild Wars 2 tried to kill Kralkatorrik in an similar way but failed which does not bode well for him. But Kralkatorrik did not took the power of an demigod Balthassar was stripped of his godly powers what he had was an bloodstone power and an decent amount of power from 2 elder dragons not all of course. An point in path of fire was that for him to surpass the other gods was that he needed the full power of an elder dragon. Which says an lot of how much power an elder dragon has.

What Kormir says is that the release of magic got Primordus' attention. Nothing about Primordus eating it nor about it going into Tyria.

As for Abaddon, while he was stronger than two gods, nothing says he killed two gods and got their power - in fact, I'd say that Abaddon's imprisonment as well as waiting to replace Dhuum with Grenth are strong indications that the gods cannot absorb the powers of another god. Either because they have a limit to how much magic they can absorb (if this is the case, this may be why Grenth couldn't kill Dhuum - being a demigod already, he was closer to the cap than mortals like Kormir), or two gods' magic just don't mingle well. I'm inclined to believe the former since it nicely explains why they left Dhuum and Abaddon alive, while also showing why the Elder Dragons, who seem weaker than the gods, are capable of surpassing them (as we've seen, the ED has no visible limit).

Also, while Abaddon distributed magic and preached about magic, he was ultimately the god of knowledge and water, not the god of magic.

I would also disagree that the Commander tried to kill Kralkatorrik "in a similar way" - the Commander used an army of grunts with a small elite force (~10) and Aurene; the Hero was a larger elite force and blessings from the other gods, while also utilizing chains forged by a god.

As for what Kralkatorrik took from Balthazar, yes it was technically the lionshare of a Bloodstone and portions of two Elder Dragons, but as we see with Kralkatorrik and Aurene, even Balthazar, Balthazar had turned that magic into his own kind of magic (much like the Elder Dragons do). What Kralkatorrik got was ultimately not Primordus' magic or Jormag's magic, but Balthazar's magic.

And Balthazar's goal wasn't to become more powerful than the other gods by taking magic from one Elder Dragon, but all Elder Dragons. But that's basically saying 1 Demigod + 6 Elder Dragons + 1 Bloodstone > 5 Gods (or 6 gods if Balthazar was replaced properly).

@"Poormany.4507" said:-snip words-I'm kind of confused as to how people think the Commander is taking orders in HoT and later. I mean, in HoT, the Commander is actively giving orders to Laranthir and others. In S3, the entire seasons' subplot is trying to bring the Dragon's Watch guild together and with Braham and Canach refusing because they don't want to take the Commander's orders (only to later do so in S4 and PoF respectively); the only times we're following another's orders is when we're getting Taimi her samples in Ep2&3, and assisting Jennah in Ep4 (but it's not like we're going to go ordering a queen around). In PoF, we're literally doing our own thing, no one is around to give us orders, not even Taimi. First half of S4 is pretty much the same, we're reacting to a threat (Joko), not following someones' orders. And in All or Nothing, we're literally giving orders to everyone.

The only time we're taking orders as the Commander, ironically given your post, is the core game and S2, when we're taking orders from our superiors (DE iconic; Order mentor; Trahearne).

And with the GW1 PC, well as Aaron said, we're literally taking orders throughout all of Prophecies and Factions and first half of Nightfall. WiK and WoC are kind of arguable since that - like S3 - feels more like "I'm volunteering for duty, where do you need help?" rather than "I'm reporting for duty, what are your orders." The GW1 PC only really leads in second half of Nightfall and EotN.

[Warkind.6745]

The commander is barely even a leader. I don't think anyone other than Rhytlock or Trahearne have followed him unless they kind of just felt like it.

Kasmeer telling the commander she was too busy to go on a mission because she wanted to go pray at a temple in PoF will always weigh heavily on me.

[Pax.3548]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

Which foe was defeated single handedly?

In order of the story so far? since LW2 we got Saboteur Aerin (the fight was basically 1 on 1 since the rest of the team focused on the vines), the sons of svanir at Frostgorge Sound during Summit Invitations (it was an attack made by a norn team, yet the commander, according to Eir, went in and dealt with the Sons "On his/her own" without backup from any of their elite team) Shadow of the dragon above the pale tree, then later again at the end of LW2 (yes he got help from the rest of the team, but still the entire fight was practically 1vs1 between the dragon and the commander while the rest fought outside the vines), in LW3 we got Jormag's Abomination (hunted and defeated by the Commander on their own) Balthazar's war hounds (used the machine to kill them, but then again, only the commander fought here), in PoF we got the Eater of Souls (don't tell me you forgot about that one), Balthazar the ex god of war himself (fought alongside a baby dragon yes, but I still count it as a battle prowess by its own right, sure you could say the commander had a legendary sword on their hands, but then again, so did Balthazar) and finally in LWS4 we got the Mark II Beta Exterminator Golem (the commander received help in keeping the golem pinned in the fighting place, but all the fight was practically 1 on 1), and of course, Joko (who wasn't killed and in fact managed to trap the commander, but still, he was defeated, and unlike turai who fought joko on a brigde, the commander managed to beat the mummy on his own element, with all the traps and reinforcements around).

So, while the commander has fought and even defeated many foes 1 on 1, the gw1 hero ALWAYS fought with his team of elites (the only exception being a couple of side quests in EoTN where the hero fought alone and, presumably, won).

I'd say argue that gods are greater than Zhaitan or Mordremoth's states. While imprisoned and at only 1/4th of his full power, Abaddon twisted the landscape of Elona from the heart of the Realm of Torment through the minds of those who knew of him, even if they were his enemies. The Elder Dragons could only ever influence what's directly around them and their minions until Kralkatorrik got a boost from two Elder Dragons and a demigod.

The way we've seen it, and the way Kormir mentions the Elder Dragons' power, it feels like "at default" the Elder Dragons are weaker than the gods, but they're capable of surpassing the gods' might. Kralkatorrik, it feels, is the only one close to surpassing a god's power.

Not to mention that Zhaitan was not only weakened from the Pact's campaign, but by the gods themselves while in hibernation (per Arah Seer path).

I would put them on the same level, we don't fully know the extent of a god's power, but we do know that a full fight between them created a massive desert, while a single elder dragon managed to resurface a massive island on his own that reshaped Tyria, also, Kormir herself has proven that a fight between gods and dragons could end in either dead or victory on either side. Believing the gods to be superior would put words that Kormir didn't say.

And when we met Kormir, her momentary anger caused the area around her to darken and begin falling apart. Not even Kralkatorrik managed that yet.

Kralkatorrik created a massive brand on Tyria's landscape simply by breathing... not to mention the very aura that covers the dragon.

I, however, would not compare Zhaitan and Mordremoth to "Abaddon level threats" for reasons stated above. Greater than Shiro, Khilbron, and Varesh, but less than still-imprisoned Abaddon.

No way I believe the last part.

Which part? The twice as powerful, or the 3/8th strength? The former comes from a few lore documents for Nightfall that got released to the Asian communities (here is one, and here is the other under fan translation). The 3/8th strength comes from gw.dat descriptions of various locations, so they're as said pseudo-canon at best but it's the only indication we really have; you can find those descriptions here or on their respective location's article on the GWW.

Ty I forgot where that info came from.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

The Gods are cosmic, the Elder Dragons are terrestrial. The only Elder Dragon that has reached “cosmic” levels of influence is Kralkatorrik as a result of taking those powers of traversing the Mists from Balthazar.

They’re on different levels, with Elder Dragons below the Gods until such time as they absorb enough magic to surpass them. That seems fairly obvious to me. Like Konig says, the Gods start at a higher level but from what we know they cannot or do not want to go past a certain threshold. Though Balthazar seemed to be under the impression he could, given how he talks about taking all the magic of the Elder Dragons AND the Gods after he's defeated them. I would argue it seems to be more a case of the Gods being good eggs and not wanting to ferociously eat every single bit of magic they come across like the Elder Dragons than them being unable to go past a certain threshold. It's a personal limit they've put on themselves rather than a mechanical one (Another way to explain Grenth not taking all of Dhuum's powers, maybe he personally did not want to take such powers because they were anathema to him with the way Dhuum acquired them). Which amusingly puts them in that "regulate and share magic" category that Tyria needs.

[adormtil.1605]

The surge of power upended the balance of magic in Tyria

Pretty sure it meant magic went into Tyria you can not upended the balance of magic with nothing.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

It didn't. Kormir absorbed it all, but the very fact it was unbound for the tiny amount of time it was was enough to trigger the Elder Dragon cycle.

[Randulf.7614]

@"adormtil.1605" said:Actually

Kormir: I was there to contain the damage, but by then it was too late.Kormir: The surge of power upended the balance of magic in Tyria, and stirred Primordus from his slumber—triggering this latest cycle of destruction.Kormir: There is no victory to be found in a war between the gods. Only casualties.

Well not absorbed but it went into Tyria and made Primordius closer to awakening. So Kormir did not absorbed the full power of Abbadon. That being said I know Abbadon killed an older god in the past to get his powers but who was the second god?He was the strongest god being god of magic also helped sure and yes he could change Tyria from his plane while elder dragons have to be there to do it but there where half an dozen elite heroes there to kill him ,the hero of Guild Wars 2 tried to kill Kralkatorrik in an similar way but failed which does not bode well for him. But Kralkatorrik did not took the power of an demigod Balthassar was stripped of his godly powers what he had was an bloodstone power and an decent amount of power from 2 elder dragons not all of course. An point in path of fire was that for him to surpass the other gods was that he needed the full power of an elder dragon. Which says an lot of how much power an elder dragon has.

The second God is believed to be Arachnia but the info was taken from data mining and some named sections in gw1s realm of torment and is stated by the devs to be non-canon at this time.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arachnia

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Pax.3548 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

Which foe was defeated single handedly?

In order of the story so far? since LW2 we got Saboteur Aerin (the fight was basically 1 on 1 since the rest of the team focused on the vines), the sons of svanir at Frostgorge Sound during Summit Invitations (it was an attack made by a norn team, yet the commander, according to Eir, went in and dealt with the Sons "On his/her own" without backup from any of their elite team) Shadow of the dragon above the pale tree, then later again at the end of LW2 (yes he got help from the rest of the team, but still the entire fight was practically 1vs1 between the dragon and the commander while the rest fought outside the vines), in LW3 we got Jormag's Abomination (hunted and defeated by the Commander on their own) Balthazar's war hounds (used the machine to kill them, but then again, only the commander fought here), in PoF we got the Eater of Souls (don't tell me you forgot about that one), Balthazar the ex god of war himself (fought alongside a baby dragon yes, but I still count it as a battle prowess by its own right, sure you could say the commander had a legendary sword on their hands, but then again, so did Balthazar) and finally in LWS4 we got the Mark II Beta Exterminator Golem (the commander received help in keeping the golem pinned in the fighting place, but all the fight was practically 1 on 1), and of course, Joko (who wasn't killed and in fact managed to trap the commander, but still, he was defeated, and unlike turai who fought joko on a brigde, the commander managed to beat the mummy on his own element, with all the traps and reinforcements around).

So, while the commander has fought and even defeated many foes 1 on 1, the gw1 hero ALWAYS fought with his team of elites (the only exception being a couple of side quests in EoTN where the hero fought alone and, presumably, won).

• As you say, Dragon's Watch was there handling minions so we could take on some random sylvari engineer. The Master of Peace was also throwing Zephyrite Aspects, which we could not have beaten Aerin without. Even if you discount Dragon's Watch, the Master of Peace helped.
• There is an entire vigil squad in the meta that fights through it, despite Eir's words.
• First fight with Shadow of the Dragon we were aided by the Pale Tree herself - she trapped it within branches/vines to make it vulnerable. She made it vulnerable for us.
• Second fight with Shadow of the Dragon, as you say we got help from Dragon's Watch; Rox throwing divine fire, Braham using shields to protect the Commander, and once the Shadow reached 50% Kasmeer sent in phantasms and Marjory sent in minions, and at 25% they all pop in for the finishing blow. Rox with divine fire made it vulnerable for us.
• Not sure the Unstable Abomination really counts since the fight was basically making the grubs injure it. The Commander couldn't do jack squat against it.
• Temar and Tegan, arguable. Taimi was there and was assisting in an indirect method; without her scanner releasing globs of Jormag and Primordus magic, the Commander couldn't defeat the hounds. Like Joko, it wasn't the Commander who defeated the immortal hounds of magic, it was Taimi's Machine in the end.
• Eater of Souls I'll give you, not that facing some demon is much of a big threat.
• Balthazar, as you say, was fought alongside Aurene. It was her magic and protection that prevented a redux of the previous battle where Balthazar killed the Commander easily. And canonically, we could only damage him due to Sohothin.
• Exterminator Golem, wasn't Bottica and the Elders giving the Commander support? Not sure, so I'll give you that one. But again, these golems aren't great beings.
• Joko, again, wasn't killed by the Commander. Wasn't defeated either - at the end of the battle, it was the Commander who was bested, not Joko. He was killed by Aurene. Doesn't count to Commander's credit.

I would put them on the same level, we don't fully know the extent of a god's power, but we do know that a full fight between them created a massive desert, while a single elder dragon managed to resurface a massive island on his own that reshaped Tyria, also, Kormir herself has proven that a fight between gods and dragons could end in either dead or victory on either side. Believing the gods to be superior would put words that Kormir didn't say.

The way Kormir worded it, and given Balthazar's confidence, makes it sound more like Kormir accepted the possibility of the Six losing. Which makes sense given they're not invulnerable.

For your comparison, keep in mind that the scope of the Crystal Desert is ultimately about four times the size of Orr. Then we have these other facts:

• The death of one god's magic is enough to destroy the world from the heart of the Realm of Torment, while it takes three Elder Dragons in Tyria to destroy the world.
• The rise of a god resulted in warping land dimensions away, while the rise of an Elder Dragon only warped equivalent land nearby.
• The Six can freely enter and leave the Mists, even setting up dominion in the very heart of all reality itself (the Hall of Heroes), while the Elder Dragons - until recently - were trapped in Tyria like most unaided mortals.

Kralkatorrik created a massive brand on Tyria's landscape simply by breathing... not to mention the very aura that covers the dragon.More than "simply breathing". It was an active choice on Kralkatorrik's part. It was a passive act on Kormir's. Same goes for the thunderstorm that covers it, what I assume you mean by "the very aura", as shown by the total lack of one in All or Nothing.

@"Randulf.7614" said:The second God is believed to be Arachnia but the info was taken from data mining and some named sections in gw1s realm of torment and is stated by the devs to be non-canon at this time.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arachnia

More accurately, the only god believed to be Abaddon's predecessor is Arachnia, but Arachnia's existence is unconfirmed to be canon (I don't think devs said it isn't canon, but rather that things from the gw.dat shouldn't be treated as explicitly canon since it wasn't officially released; minor difference in that saying it isn't canon = it isn't canon and won't ever be, while "don't treat it as such" means it might become canon when/if ArenaNet revisits it).

[Pax.3548]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

• As you say, Dragon's Watch was there handling minions so we could take on some random sylvari engineer. The Master of Peace was also throwing Zephyrite Aspects, which we could not have beaten Aerin without. Even if you discount Dragon's Watch, the Master of Peace helped.
• There is an entire vigil squad in the meta that fights through it, despite Eir's words.
• First fight with Shadow of the Dragon we were aided by the Pale Tree herself - she trapped it within branches/vines to make it vulnerable. She made it vulnerable for us.
• Second fight with Shadow of the Dragon, as you say we got help from Dragon's Watch; Rox throwing divine fire, Braham using shields to protect the Commander, and once the Shadow reached 50% Kasmeer sent in phantasms and Marjory sent in minions, and at 25% they all pop in for the finishing blow. Rox with divine fire made it vulnerable for us.
• Not sure the Unstable Abomination really counts since the fight was basically making the grubs injure it. The Commander couldn't do jack squat against it.
• Temar and Tegan, arguable. Taimi was there and was assisting in an indirect method; without her scanner releasing globs of Jormag and Primordus magic, the Commander couldn't defeat the hounds. Like Joko, it wasn't the Commander who defeated the immortal hounds of magic, it was Taimi's Machine in the end.
• Eater of Souls I'll give you, not that facing some demon is much of a big threat.
• Balthazar, as you say, was fought alongside Aurene. It was her magic and protection that prevented a redux of the previous battle where Balthazar killed the Commander easily. And canonically, we could only damage him due to Sohothin.
• Exterminator Golem, wasn't Bottica and the Elders giving the Commander support? Not sure, so I'll give you that one. But again, these golems aren't great beings.
• Joko, again, wasn't killed by the Commander. Wasn't defeated either - at the end of the battle, it was the Commander who was bested, not Joko. He was killed by Aurene. Doesn't count to Commander's credit.

I think you cannot accept these things as archievements on its own right, being biased by our good old time in gw1. I said in my original post that I considered the commander's personal strength to be superior of the gw1 hero because of the fact he could fight, 1 on 1, against many dangerous foes. Yes in some of them he got assisted, but still, he managed to stand up and beat foes one on one, while gw1 hero always fought with his team, never having faced a "boss" character one on one.

Joko not being defeated? seroiusly he was completely deformed by the end of the fight and that wasn't an act, he was defeated, just not killed (because of his inmortality), and he had a trap under his sleeve in case he found himself in that position, as the commander would clearly lower their guard. Killing your opponent isn't a prerequisite to win a fight you know?

The way Kormir worded it, and given Balthazar's confidence, makes it sound more like Kormir accepted the possibility of the Six losing. Which makes sense given they're not invulnerable.

Of course they're not invulnerable, Grenth defeated Dhuum even while being mortal, and with the assistance of only 7 mortals, no more than that, mortals defeated Abaddon (yes he was imprisoned and there was the blessings of the gods, but still mortals killed a god), and kormir's godhood was threatened by Mallyx, who wasn't a god. Grenth couldn't deal with dhuum becoming free, and relied on mortals assistance to keep him sealed, and Balthazar himself wasn't capable of easily ending the war against his half Brother, even though Menzhies was no god. Gods have tremendous power, but they're not omnipotent, they can be killed by mortals, having the right means, just like how Tyrians killed the Elder Dragons, by working united. If it wasn't Zhaitan but instead one of the gods we fought in the personal story, I think the result would have been similar: a dead god, with a hell of a lot cassualties, just like Zhaitan.

For your comparison, keep in mind that the scope of the Crystal Desert is ultimately about four times the size of Orr. Then we have these other facts:

And yet it was the combined magic of the 6 gods battling that created it.

• The death of one god's magic is enough to destroy the world from the heart of the Realm of Torment, while it takes three Elder Dragons in Tyria to destroy the world.

We still don't know enough about the divine magic inside the gods, you need to have present Abaddon's magic completely covered the realm of torment and managed to manifest in Tyria, Abaddon's death could have created an explosive reaction in his magic, making it unstable inside out, and making the whole realm of torment and the parts of Tyria tainted with his magic explode. And that would explain why it could have destroy Tyria. Besides, it was the gw1 hero, a tyrian mortal, who expressed that Abaddon's power could destroy the world, for all we know, the hero could be wrong, or he/she could have had exagerated a bit. But still, only his/her word isn't enough now to still believe a gods divine power alone could destroy a whole world, IMO.

• The rise of a god resulted in warping land dimensions away, while the rise of an Elder Dragon only warped equivalent land nearby.

Zhaitan's awakening did change Tyria's landcape, in a manner of speaking. Could you point out me these warped lands? I can't recall any.

• The Six can freely enter and leave the Mists, even setting up dominion in the very heart of all reality itself (the Hall of Heroes), while the Elder Dragons - until recently - were trapped in Tyria like most unaided mortals.

Gods are beings from the mist, they are connected to it, because of that the ability to create rifts and traverse the mist must be intrinsicate to their magic, its not because of their inmense power that they can do this, its because of what they are that they can (Balthazar could create these rifts, even after he was no longer a god), the elder dragons aren't beings from the mist, but Kralkattorik and Aurene eating Balthazar's magic allowed them to adquire that particular gift.

Regarding the hall of heroes, I believe if all 6 elder dragons worked together (like the gods) and could create rifts, like the gods they too could have easily settled up dominion in the hall of Heroes.

Kralkatorrik created a massive brand on Tyria's landscape simply by breathing... not to mention the very aura that covers the dragon.More than "simply breathing". It was an active choice on Kralkatorrik's part. It was a passive act on Kormir's.

Was it an active choice? and where is that mentioned?

[Teratus.2859]

@Randulf.7614 said:We weren't quite as clear cut a leader back then. We were part of a group, but with some exceptions between NPC deaths there was usually someone we followed - Rurik, Togo, Kormir, Ogden. We were more the de facto champion of the group rather than a straight out Commander and I think that worked so much better.

Were we better, well you;d have to compare achievements, but I prefer to think of my GW1 character as the greater hero. Straightforward, uncomplicated and get on with the job without having to manage people so much.

Plus I took down Shiro mono e mono. And I killed a God. A real God

And Glint. Pretty certain that happened too ;)

Balthazar and Abaddon along with Dhuum are all fallen largely depowered Gods.

I guess an argument could be made that Balthazar was the most powerful of them though since while all 3 of them were technically imprisoned, Balthazar is the only one we know of who both escaped imprisonment and managed to claim a massive amount of magic and power before he was put down.Abaddon mostly relied on his minion power and he never escaped his prison despite trying, and Dhuum consumes souls for power though but i'd say it's unlikely Dhuum has claimed enough power from souls to rival the power Balthazar obtained from a bloodstone and 2 Elder Dragons.Both Dhuum and Abaddon were foiled multiple times although you could argue that Abaddon influenced the world significantly more than Balthazar did during their campaigns.Abaddon raised hell around the world from the shadows and it took our GW1 PC a long time to even discover he was responsible for pretty much everything going on.

What is curious about the 3 though is that there is a running trend with 2 of them and the 3rd has not been clarified in gw2.When Dhuum was first defeated as a god.. Grenth took his power and ascended to Godhood.Likewise when Abaddon was destroyed.. Kormir ascended to Godhood.When Balthazar was destroyed.. Something wierd happened to Aurine.. and all this talk of ascention in recent patches strongly suggests something similar could have happened to her.Granted we all know what happened in the last episode but i'm not convinced it'll stick.... bad pun intended :P

[Teratus.2859]

@Torn Fierceslash.6375 said:In my opinion the guild wars 1 hero did more with less,. Granted the only dragons they fought was small compared to elder the dragons but they did fight a god that was almost fully released.

2 technically :)If you did all the optional stuff lol

[ThatOddOne.4387]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:We weren't quite as clear cut a leader back then. We were part of a group, but with some exceptions between NPC deaths there was usually someone we followed - Rurik, Togo, Kormir, Ogden. We were more the de facto champion of the group rather than a straight out Commander and I think that worked so much better.

Were we better, well you;d have to compare achievements, but I prefer to think of my GW1 character as the greater hero. Straightforward, uncomplicated and get on with the job without having to manage people so much.

Plus I took down Shiro mono e mono. And I killed a God. A real God

And Glint. Pretty certain that happened too ;)

Balthazar and Abaddon along with Dhuum are all fallen largely depowered Gods.

I guess an argument could be made that Balthazar was the most powerful of them though since while all 3 of them were technically imprisoned, Balthazar is the only one we know of who both escaped imprisonment and managed to claim a massive amount of magic and power before he was put down.Abaddon mostly relied on his minion power and he never escaped his prison despite trying, and Dhuum consumes souls for power though but i'd say it's unlikely Dhuum has claimed enough power from souls to rival the power Balthazar obtained from a bloodstone and 2 Elder Dragons.Both Dhuum and Abaddon were foiled multiple times although you could argue that Abaddon influenced the world significantly more than Balthazar did during their campaigns.Abaddon raised hell around the world from the shadows and it took our GW1 PC a long time to even discover he was responsible for pretty much everything going on.

What is curious about the 3 though is that there is a running trend with 2 of them and the 3rd has not been clarified in gw2.When Dhuum was first defeated as a god.. Grenth took his power and ascended to Godhood.Likewise when Abaddon was destroyed.. Kormir ascended to Godhood.When Balthazar was destroyed.. Something wierd happened to Aurine.. and all this talk of ascention in recent patches strongly suggests something similar could have happened to her.Granted we all know what happened in the last episode but i'm not convinced it'll stick.... bad pun intended :P

Balthazar should already have a replacement. Both the previous replacements took place right after the previous holders defeat/death. Aurene was not present for his imprisonment and draining of power at the hands of the Gods (obviously) so she cannot be his successor. Nor would I want her to be.

[Teratus.2859]

@adormtil.1605 said:I must point out that many of the enemies the commander fights are because of the actions of GW1 hero. So charr and flame legion was an unfinished job from GW1 hero, Orr and its undead well its because of the GW1 hero for giving them the reason to sunk the kingdom, white mantle was GW1 hero not finishing the job, Joko well that was sloppy work from GW1 hero and for what is worth GW2 hero dealt with them quite well. In case of Joko he took an bad situation and made use of it. He used the army of an lich to beat another army. That was commanding, strategist and executing. Who says he does not command.

You got quite a bit wrong there with the lore.

It wasn't our Gw1 characters fault all that happened.Fleeing Ascalon was not an option, we were fighting a loosing war against the Charr and the King's arrogance and stubbonness to accept aid from the Krytans completely doomed the kingdom to ruin.There was no way to save Ascalon.. even if Rurik murdered his father and took the crown he'd have abandoned the city to the Charr as there was no way to save it.

We were also not responsible for Orr being sunk either.. Khilbron under Abaddons influence sunk the kingdom of Orr to defeat the Charr, this event happened shortly after the Searing of Ascalon which was also caused by Abaddons influence, Charr then marched south while Ascalon was being devistated threatening Orr and leading to The Cataclysm.Our Gw1 PC was out hunting down a Charr Ranger with Prince Rurik when the Searing happened and likely fighting Charr in Ascalon when Orr sank.

As for the White Mantle.. we did more or less wipe them out, after joinging and then turning on them when we realized what they were, we were forced to flee Kryta with the Shining Blade and then sent to the Crystal Desert to undergo ascention.We returned to Kryta many years later with new allies after traveling the world and achieving great feats to once again ally with the Shining Blade and eradicate the Murzaat and White Mantle once and for all in the War in Kryta.The Murzaat were eradicated entirely with the exception of Lazarus and the White Mantle were destroyed, Somehow a few loyalists survived likely as prisoners and overtime rebuilt themselves in secret but in Gw1 we completely destroyed their army, ideology and political power.The White Mantle in Gw2 were nowhere near as powerful as they were in Gw1.. if anything they were more like a sad little cult of fanatics.

The Flame Legion had it's moments but they were more of a secondary threat to anything, they were only ever a priority when we were defending Ascalon or helping the Ebon Vanguard, for the most part they didn't have much impact on our main story as we were destined for greater things.We did however deal them many blows over time, killing their gods in front of them.. killing their new gods in front of them.. aiding the Vanguard and Charr rebels against them etc.. and they also got punished hard by the Foefire but that wasn't us.Destroying the flame legion entirely was never one of our PC's goals though.. that goal belonged to the Rebel Charr legions who were largely successful in the end even if they didn't wipe them out.

As for Joko.. we didn't technically free him, that again was Abaddons doing with Nightfall which weakened what was sealing him away, although we did disturb his monument.Either way Nightfall would have freed him completely regardless of our actions.. but we did however make a deal with Joko.In exchange for knowledge on how to travel the desolation we promised to set him free when he was captured by centaurs.. and the Sunspears did help him reclaim his bone palace and crush rebelling awakened so that was definitely the foundation work for his rise to power again.Suffice to say that rise to power took place long after our PC moved on and it's success was largely thanks to the failure of the Sunspear order.. not our PC whom we have no idea what they were doing at the time as this took place 13 years after Winds of Change which is the last event in Gw1 that we know our characters took part in.

[adormtil.1605]

Well okay but the white mantle is not an sad little cult in GW2 they had enough troops to make an assault on Divinity's Reach of course they failed but that is not an sad little cult. Hey they got close to assassinate the queen, while their leader was the second most powerful man in Kryta. So they had an army, they had political power an they had their ideology. Seems GW1 hero did not completely destroyed them because completely would have meant nothing to rebuild from.No half their troops where enough for an assault on Divinity's Reach. Half of them not all.

[Teratus.2859]

@ThatOddOne.4387 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:We weren't quite as clear cut a leader back then. We were part of a group, but with some exceptions between NPC deaths there was usually someone we followed - Rurik, Togo, Kormir, Ogden. We were more the de facto champion of the group rather than a straight out Commander and I think that worked so much better.

Were we better, well you;d have to compare achievements, but I prefer to think of my GW1 character as the greater hero. Straightforward, uncomplicated and get on with the job without having to manage people so much.

Plus I took down Shiro mono e mono. And I killed a God. A real God

And Glint. Pretty certain that happened too ;)

Balthazar and Abaddon along with Dhuum are all fallen largely depowered Gods.

I guess an argument could be made that Balthazar was the most powerful of them though since while all 3 of them were technically imprisoned, Balthazar is the only one we know of who both escaped imprisonment and managed to claim a massive amount of magic and power before he was put down.Abaddon mostly relied on his minion power and he never escaped his prison despite trying, and Dhuum consumes souls for power though but i'd say it's unlikely Dhuum has claimed enough power from souls to rival the power Balthazar obtained from a bloodstone and 2 Elder Dragons.Both Dhuum and Abaddon were foiled multiple times although you could argue that Abaddon influenced the world significantly more than Balthazar did during their campaigns.Abaddon raised hell around the world from the shadows and it took our GW1 PC a long time to even discover he was responsible for pretty much everything going on.

What is curious about the 3 though is that there is a running trend with 2 of them and the 3rd has not been clarified in gw2.When Dhuum was first defeated as a god.. Grenth took his power and ascended to Godhood.Likewise when Abaddon was destroyed.. Kormir ascended to Godhood.When Balthazar was destroyed.. Something wierd happened to Aurine.. and all this talk of ascention in recent patches strongly suggests something similar could have happened to her.Granted we all know what happened in the last episode but i'm not convinced it'll stick.... bad pun intended :P

Balthazar should already have a replacement. Both the previous replacements took place right after the previous holders defeat/death. Aurene was not present for his imprisonment and draining of power at the hands of the Gods (obviously) so she cannot be his successor. Nor would I want her to be.

Abaddon had no replacement for many many years.. it was his death that cemented his replacement even as a fallen depowered god.I dunno what happened with Aurine.. something definitely did though as evident by her wierd floating behavior while being unconscious.She absorbed something special from Balthazar not just magic and power like Kralk got, it's something we've yet had clarification on but the marks are there.Her rapid growth spurt, her power increase, her ability to resonate Balthazars power enough for his sword and followers to sense him in her.. you could even argue her behavior since PoF is incredibly vicious and warrish.. not to mention all this recent talk of understanding ascention.I dunno if I'd go so far as to say she's a god but she's definitely something more than just a Dragon imo.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@Teratus.2859 said:

Abaddon had no replacement for many many years.. it was his death that cemented his replacement even as a fallen depowered god.

Abaddon was sealed, but his power was never separated from him- which is why it was such a pressing issue when he died. Balthazar, from everything we've been told, was separated from his power, and since that power needed to go somewhere to keep it from wreaking havoc, it stands to reason it was placed in a new vessel- in other words, a new god of war.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@ThatOddOne.4387 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:We weren't quite as clear cut a leader back then. We were part of a group, but with some exceptions between NPC deaths there was usually someone we followed - Rurik, Togo, Kormir, Ogden. We were more the de facto champion of the group rather than a straight out Commander and I think that worked so much better.

Were we better, well you;d have to compare achievements, but I prefer to think of my GW1 character as the greater hero. Straightforward, uncomplicated and get on with the job without having to manage people so much.

Plus I took down Shiro mono e mono. And I killed a God. A real God

And Glint. Pretty certain that happened too ;)

Balthazar and Abaddon along with Dhuum are all fallen largely depowered Gods.

I guess an argument could be made that Balthazar was the most powerful of them though since while all 3 of them were technically imprisoned, Balthazar is the only one we know of who both escaped imprisonment and managed to claim a massive amount of magic and power before he was put down.Abaddon mostly relied on his minion power and he never escaped his prison despite trying, and Dhuum consumes souls for power though but i'd say it's unlikely Dhuum has claimed enough power from souls to rival the power Balthazar obtained from a bloodstone and 2 Elder Dragons.Both Dhuum and Abaddon were foiled multiple times although you could argue that Abaddon influenced the world significantly more than Balthazar did during their campaigns.Abaddon raised hell around the world from the shadows and it took our GW1 PC a long time to even discover he was responsible for pretty much everything going on.

What is curious about the 3 though is that there is a running trend with 2 of them and the 3rd has not been clarified in gw2.When Dhuum was first defeated as a god.. Grenth took his power and ascended to Godhood.Likewise when Abaddon was destroyed.. Kormir ascended to Godhood.When Balthazar was destroyed.. Something wierd happened to Aurine.. and all this talk of ascention in recent patches strongly suggests something similar could have happened to her.Granted we all know what happened in the last episode but i'm not convinced it'll stick.... bad pun intended :P

Balthazar should already have a replacement. Both the previous replacements took place right after the previous holders defeat/death. Aurene was not present for his imprisonment and draining of power at the hands of the Gods (obviously) so she cannot be his successor. Nor would I want her to be.

Abaddon had no replacement for many many years.. it was his death that cemented his replacement even as a fallen depowered god.I dunno what happened with Aurine.. something definitely did though as evident by her wierd floating behavior while being unconscious.She absorbed something special from Balthazar not just magic and power like Kralk got, it's something we've yet had clarification on but the marks are there.Her rapid growth spurt, her power increase, her ability to resonate Balthazars power enough for his sword and followers to sense him in her.. you could even argue her behavior since PoF is incredibly vicious and warrish.. not to mention all this recent talk of understanding ascention.I dunno if I'd go so far as to say she's a god but she's definitely something more than just a Dragon imo.

Abaddon still had his powers as a God whilst he was locked up. Balthazar specifically had his removed already.

[Arewn.2368]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:None of Abaddon's power was absorbed by the Elder Dragons. But it was stated that Abaddon was able to defeat two gods, as I brought up several times over now.

This, however, does not change how drastically higher Abaddon's reach is compared to any Elder Dragon prior to Kralkatorrik absorbing a demigod's power.

I also wouldn't take Dhuum's own words of his immortality for granted. Villains are perpetual liars, especially overconfident ones, and ArenaNet has a habit of utilizing unreliable narrators. Just because Grenth "couldn't" kill Dhuum doesn't make Dhuum immortal (we do not know the circumstances of Grenth's inability to kill Dhuum; for all we know, it was a choice to not kill Dhuum rather than the physical incapability of Dhuum being unable to die). Though if it were true, I'd mark that as yet another reason why the gods are superior to the Elder Dragons - the god of death cannot die, but the Elder Dragon of death can (and quite easily at that).

So wait, I'm not super familiar with GW1 lore, but you seem to be making some leaps here in determining how powerful Abaddon was. If your only indicator that Abandon is "twice as powerful as the other gods" is that he defeated two gods (at once, presumably), then that in no way indicates he is "twice as powerful". Defeating two of something doesn't make you twice that something. Take, for example, PVP. Someone winning a 1v2 doesn't mean their class is "twice as good". It doesn't even mean their skill was "twice as good". It just means they were appropriately kitted and sufficiently skilled to manage a 2v1.Even if that was true, it would be the sum of the two he faced, and they aren't all equal. Was it the two "weakest" gods? Did he have some sort of inherit advantage against them (water puts out fire)? Not to mention the gods are all very different, and surely some have powers that are more suited to combat then others. A more powerful X could be defeated by a less powerful Y in a fight if Y's power is more suited to fighting. There's just way to much at play to so simply assume "beat two, therefore twice as strong".

"Reach" also isn't indicative of the potency of his power. It's indicative, at most, of the nature of his power. On it's own, it just means the nature of the ED's power requires contact, and the nature of Abaddon's power allows for the kind of reach he demonstrated. Another crude example, an archer can shoot an arrow from a bow a lot farther then a warrior can throw an arrow, but that doesn't make the archer "better". They are just more suitable for launching projectiles great distances.Abaddon had a clear motive and link to mettle with Tyria from the RoT, the ED's haven't had such a situation pushing them to do that.Obviously we have to work with what we have, and there's going to be a lot of assumptions involved, but these things aren't really directly comparable.

[adormtil.1605]

Yes but Balthazar is the god of war or was and that power has to go somewhere. And only being who can absorb power can take it like elder dragons and whatever the race the 6 besides Kormir are(we met others besides the 6). Something that can absorb magic. So the 6 gods absorbed the power of the god of war or gave it to someone else. I think its the former.

[Randulf.7614]

@adormtil.1605 said:Yes but Balthazar is the god of war or was and that power has to go somewhere. And only being who can absorb power can take it like elder dragons and whatever the race the 6 besides Kormir are(we met others besides the 6). Something that can absorb magic. So the 6 gods absorbed the power of the god of war or gave it to someone else. I think its the former.

If the Gods could or would wish to absorb the power and magic of a God, they would have done so during the Abaddon arc. Whoever has the War Gods divine power, it would not be one of the Five

[adormtil.1605]

Balthazar was confident with the could. I am pretty sure he threatened he will do that to the other gods.About the wish part well things change.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

The question is, can the commander command polymocks?