More Frequent Balance Updates

[Obtena.7952]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:You may think it's not worth the effort, but the existence of this thread, again, shows that there are players that disagree with you.

It's not a question if some people want better balance. The question is what the value is to give it to them for the investment. Clearly, it's not much, or you would have it by now. Like anything else, money talks and if this game was as significantly impacted by people leaving due to balancing, Anet would change their focus to address that. Apparently, the return on investment is something bigger.

The bottomline here is that you can discuss how Anet should balance better all you like, but I think a more critical look at the game and it's targeted market will give you some insight to why it hasn't happened in a more significant way or in a direct more inline with traditional MMO's.The argument "it's the best we can get, or the Anet would have changed it already" you base your whole reasoning on is false.

Right .... because 7 years isn't enough time to deliver. You're absolutely right ... maybe in ... 12 years you will get balance? 15? Besides, that's a misinterpretation of what I'm saying anyways. It's the flavour you are going to get; that flavour isn't going to change. It's more like when McD's reduces the salt on the fries instead of giving you better fries.

Your second argument, "people do not care" is also evidently false.

That's good cause I never said people don't care. I said it's not important enough to them or if it is, they already left. Like McD's ... billions served but gourmet it's definitely not ... Choose your flavour wisely.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Kumouta.4985 said:even just number changes to keep everything in check would do

Exactly. There no gear power creep now that ascended is mainstream, so the only thing stopping this game from being balanced is poor cadance. At the moment they keep trying to fill a thimble with a Waterhose and can't work out why it keeps overflowing.

[zealex.9410]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Kumouta.4985 said:even just number changes to keep everything in check would do

Exactly. There no gear power creep now that ascended is mainstream, so the only thing stopping this game from being balanced is poor cadance. At the moment they keep trying to fill a thimble with a Waterhose and can't work out why it keeps overflowing.

Well i mean theres more stopping the game from being balanced than cadence but its also a big factor.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@zealex.9410 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Kumouta.4985 said:even just number changes to keep everything in check would do

Exactly. There no gear power creep now that ascended is mainstream, so the only thing stopping this game from being balanced is poor cadance. At the moment they keep trying to fill a thimble with a Waterhose and can't work out why it keeps overflowing.

Well i mean theres more stopping the game from being balanced than cadence but its also a big factor.

Agree its only 1 factor, but its one of many good steps that can be taken. Looking at last patch, the pattern repeats once more.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Obtena.7952" said:Right .... because 7 years isn't enough time to deliver.With poor balance update cadence, it indeed isn't.

You're absolutely right ... maybe in ... 12 years you will get balance? 15?You see, that's exactly the reason why some people are asking for changes. Waiting for 15 years is not really appealing.

Besides, that's a misinterpretation of what I'm saying anyways. It's the flavour you are going to get; that flavour isn't going to change.I remember thinking the same just before Raids were introduced. Boy, was i wrong :disappointed:

Your second argument, "people do not care" is also evidently false.

That's good cause I never said people don't care. I said it's not important enough to them or if it is, they already left.And yet people keep leaving over this every year, and some will certainly leave it in this and next year as well..

[Obtena.7952]

People leave for all kinds of reasons and you don't know if this is the most important one to deal with. Frankly, I doubt it's on the radar because as I explained, for the people where it matters the most, they left already ... no one plays a game for 7 years that isn't balanced if they care that much about it.

Raids didn't change the flavour either ... in fact, if anything, the flavour of balance we got was only MORE exposed with the introduction of raids.

you know what I like about our continuing discussion about balance in the game? It's the fact that every year we have it, my case only gets stronger because Anet keeps delivering the same flavour of balance year after year. At 10 years when we have this discussion again, you're still going to telling me about how everyone is leaving because of balance and balance is the answer ... OK.

[zealex.9410]

@Obtena.7952 said:People leave for all kinds of reasons and you don't know if this is the most important one to deal with. Frankly, I doubt it's on the radar because as I explained, for the people where it matters the most, they left already ... no one plays a game for 7 years that isn't balanced if they care that much about it.

Raids didn't change the flavour either ... in fact, if anything, the flavour of balance we got was only MORE exposed with the introduction of raids.

you know what I like about our continuing discussion about balance in the game? It's the fact that every year we have it, my case only gets stronger because Anet keeps delivering the same flavour of balance year after year. At 10 years when we have this discussion again, you're still going to telling me about how everyone is leaving because of balance and balance is the answer ... OK.

Frankly, the way things are going i dont see the game existing in any way other than just running servers in 10 years.

[Obtena.7952]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:People leave for all kinds of reasons and you don't know if this is the most important one to deal with. Frankly, I doubt it's on the radar because as I explained, for the people where it matters the most, they left already ... no one plays a game for 7 years that isn't balanced if they care that much about it.

Raids didn't change the flavour either ... in fact, if anything, the flavour of balance we got was only MORE exposed with the introduction of raids.

you know what I like about our continuing discussion about balance in the game? It's the fact that every year we have it, my case only gets stronger because Anet keeps delivering the same flavour of balance year after year. At 10 years when we have this discussion again, you're still going to telling me about how everyone is leaving because of balance and balance is the answer ... OK.

Frankly, the way things are going i dont see the game existing in any way other than just running servers in 10 years.

I don't actually see a problem with that ... it's on par with other games in the industry.

[zealex.9410]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:People leave for all kinds of reasons and you don't know if this is the most important one to deal with. Frankly, I doubt it's on the radar because as I explained, for the people where it matters the most, they left already ... no one plays a game for 7 years that isn't balanced if they care that much about it.

Raids didn't change the flavour either ... in fact, if anything, the flavour of balance we got was only MORE exposed with the introduction of raids.

you know what I like about our continuing discussion about balance in the game? It's the fact that every year we have it, my case only gets stronger because Anet keeps delivering the same flavour of balance year after year. At 10 years when we have this discussion again, you're still going to telling me about how everyone is leaving because of balance and balance is the answer ... OK.

Frankly, the way things are going i dont see the game existing in any way other than just running servers in 10 years.

I don't actually see a problem with that ... it's on par with other games in the industry.

Wow has been running for longer, Osrs has been running for longer and i can see both ff14 and eso do the same.

Sure gw2 doesnt need to run for another decade but thats not to say the game in its current state could afford to keep running for another 10 years with updates. The faith longterm from the players and the developers just isnt there.

[Obtena.7952]

@zealex.9410 said:The faith longterm from the players and the developers just isnt there.

That's much too general a statement to be true. I mean ... sure for the people that complain ... that's true. You just don't know how much of the playerbase this is true for. I'm willing to speculate that for all the 'balance unhappy' people this could be true for, it's not that significant a number of people in the game anymore. That's because if balance is THAT important to someone, they should have left a long time ago. Nothing being done should give anyone who is 'balance sensitive' any indication that the flavour of balance is going to change.

[Ototo.3214]

Idk, people seem to hate it whenever balance patches actually do hit, I don't want to hear even more whining. Based on that, I guess it'd be better to just have...better balance patches instead of it just being more frequent. But people will be mad regardless.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ototo.3214 said:Idk, people seem to hate it whenever balance patches actually do hitThat's because:

1. since patches are infrequent, they tend to be big. And that means turning over the balance state of the game every 3 months. People prefer slow, gradual changes over repeated apocalypses.

2. Each patch introduces a lot of... let's say, missed ideas. But, since the balance patches are infrequent, unless the problem is both gamebreaking and in players' favour, we know those problems won't be fixed for at least another 3 months. And even then Anet is likely to either overcompensate (thus, creating another problem) or undercompensate, which may extend the fix for the problem for a year or more.

All of those are a direct consequence of the infrequent balance schedule.

[Ototo.3214]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:Idk, people seem to hate it whenever balance patches actually do hitThat's because:

1. since patches are infrequent, they tend to be big. And that means turning over the balance state of the game every 3 months. People prefer slow, gradual changes over repeated apocalypses.

2. Each patch introduces a lot of... let's say, missed ideas. But, since the balance patches are infrequent, unless the problem is both gamebreaking and in players' favour, we know those problems won't be fixed for at least another 3 months. And even then Anet is likely to either overcompensate (thus, creating another problem) or undercompensate, which may extend the fix for the problem for a year or more.

All of those are a direct consequence of the infrequent balance schedule.

I think you cut out the part of my post that mentioned better balance updates. And you don't need frequent updates to keep people playing your game. FFXIV is a shining example of ignoring player feedback and releasing some really stupid class changes that nobody wants and abandoning it for years until the next expansion. Besides, I personally liked some of the changes in the most recent balance patch for the things I'm actually familiar with. So no, I don't think they need to make more frequent balance changes necessarily.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:Idk, people seem to hate it whenever balance patches actually do hitThat's because:

1. since patches are infrequent, they tend to be big. And that means turning over the balance state of the game every 3 months. People prefer slow, gradual changes over repeated apocalypses.

2. Each patch introduces a lot of... let's say, missed ideas. But, since the balance patches are infrequent, unless the problem is both gamebreaking and in players' favour, we know those problems won't be fixed for at least another 3 months. And even then Anet is likely to either overcompensate (thus, creating another problem) or undercompensate, which may extend the fix for the problem for a year or more.

All of those are a direct consequence of the infrequent balance schedule.

I think you cut out the part of my post that mentioned better balance updates.As for "better balance updates", well... yeah, ideally that would be good, but practically that's not going to happen. It's not something that can be changed by just wanting it. In the end, in the game with system as complex as in GW2, no amount of theoretical thinking will replace actually seeing the results and adjusting to them. It's obvious they simply cannot predict most of the end results of the changes they introduced. That's what necessitates endless chains of changes patch after patch

And you don't need frequent updates to keep people playing your game. FFXIV is a shining example of ignoring player feedback and releasing some really stupid class changes that nobody wants and abandoning it for years until the next expansion.First, they have a much simpler system - they do not have to worry about what skills/gear/traits people will have, because there's not much choice for that (there's some with gear, but even that is extremely limited). And as for rotations, they are something they actually plan themselves. With very small potential for surprises, there's a much smaller margin for error. Second, if you haven't noticed, for the most part the "really stupid class changes that nobody wants" usually

do

work out. If there are reasons why people are disappointed, those generaly lie in the realm of aestethics, not mechanics.

Besides, the quality of the story (in expacs, even if not in the base ARR core) and amount of content in FFXiV is much greater than in GW2. No surprising, considering it is a subscription based game with a much bigger budget.

Besides, I personally liked some of the changes in the most recent balance patch for the things I'm actually familiar with. So no, I don't think they need to make more frequent balance changes necessarily."I liked the changes, so all changes are fine, and they don't need to change anything now". Yes. That's definitely a quality argument.

[Ototo.3214]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:Idk, people seem to hate it whenever balance patches actually do hitThat's because:

1. since patches are infrequent, they tend to be big. And that means turning over the balance state of the game every 3 months. People prefer slow, gradual changes over repeated apocalypses.

2. Each patch introduces a lot of... let's say, missed ideas. But, since the balance patches are infrequent, unless the problem is both gamebreaking and in players' favour, we know those problems won't be fixed for at least another 3 months. And even then Anet is likely to either overcompensate (thus, creating another problem) or undercompensate, which may extend the fix for the problem for a year or more.

All of those are a direct consequence of the infrequent balance schedule.

I think you cut out the part of my post that mentioned better balance updates.As for "better balance updates", well... yeah, ideally that would be good, but practically that's not going to happen. It's not something that can be changed by just wanting it. In the end, in the game with system as complex as in GW2, no amount of theoretical thinking will replace actually seeing the results and adjusting to them. It's obvious they simply cannot predict most of the end results of the changes they introduced. That's what necessitates endless chains of changes patch after patch

And you don't need frequent updates to keep people playing your game. FFXIV is a shining example of ignoring player feedback and releasing some really stupid class changes that nobody wants and abandoning it for years until the next expansion.First, they have a much simpler system - they do not have to worry about what skills/gear/traits people will have, because there's not much choice for that (there's some with gear, but even that is extremely limited). And as for rotations, they are something they actually plan themselves. With very small potential for surprises, there's a much smaller margin for error. Second, if you haven't noticed, for the most part the "really stupid class changes that nobody wants" usually

do

work out. If there are reasons why people are disappointed, those generaly lie in the realm of aestethics, not mechanics.

Besides, the quality of the story (in expacs, even if not in the base ARR core) and amount of content in FFXiV is much greater than in GW2. No surprising, considering it is a subscription based game with a much bigger budget.

Besides, I personally liked some of the changes in the most recent balance patch for the things I'm actually familiar with. So no, I don't think they need to make more frequent balance changes necessarily."I liked the changes, so all changes are fine, and they don't need to change anything now". Yes. That's definitely a quality argument.

And I don't agree that just spewing out more potentially bad balance patches will be any better, it would just be annoying. Especially when most of the changes are largely irrelevant to PvE, the game mode most people care about.

Much simpler system in FFXIV and they still can't fix things. Largely aesthetic? Mmm no. Throughout the entirety of Stormblood, Samurai and Red Mage were largely seen as irrelevant for end game group content. Dark knight severely under-performed in nearly every category compared to the other tanks and was very clunky to play. Machinist was nearly impossible to actually play correctly if you had even the slightest amount of lag. Things like Ninja were a must have because of basically just 1 skill they had. Monk was clunky and given an ass backwards GCD slowdown skill that contradicts the playstyle. Etc. Sure, they've addressed a lot of those with Shadowbringers now, but that took them literal years, until a new expansion, to change. And crap like Riddle of Fire still exists on Monk. Astrologian supposedly sucks right now (I don't play it though). Haven't played Shadowbringers long enough to see if most other changes were even that great. But it took years for things to get updates. I'll gladly take balance changes for most classes every few months over that.

Quality of story is subjective. I flat out disagree and think GW2 has a better story. Amount of content is arguable. Does FFXIV technically have more overall content? Sure. Is most of it irrelevant and ignored? Yup. Took me weeks of sitting in Party Finder, waiting for people to help, just to do a Savage Raid from Heavensward for a glamour chest piece. Because most of their old content is irrelevant to most people. Only reason you can still find people to do most of the dungeons with is because of roulettes. I'll take GW2's content that people actually still do over that. At least GW2 maps actually have something to offer, like meta events.

And I agree with the overall sentiment of the last balance change, even if I don't completely understand every little change for every class. Especs should have a tradeoff for picking them over Core. Soulbeast's unblockables should be toned down. Chrono should lose something for picking it over Mesmer (though they should have also done the same thing to Mirage). I agree that Scrapper shouldn't be tanky with a ton of health regen and barriers together. Holo should have a real penalty for overheating the Forge. Guardian changes seem mostly pointless unless they are going to change some of the other traits but I won't complain with some buffs to the Longbow. I liked seeing them try to update the core necro shroud. Don't know anything about Thief but to my understanding most people didn't use the old traps all that much? And last I recalled, most people wanted to see more updates to followup after what seemed to be a mess with the Berserker update. Don't know anything about Rev, so I can't really comment on those changes. And I don't understand much about Ele, though if seems to be trying to help out what? Core? So specializing in an attunement feels more impactful? Don't see what's wrong with that unless the changes didn't succeed with that.Overall I like the direction. Don't twist my words.

If they actually could push out more balance updates that weren't just rushed nonsense, then I'm sure they would be. But It isn't absolutely necessary.

[zealex.9410]

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:Idk, people seem to hate it whenever balance patches actually do hitThat's because:

1. since patches are infrequent, they tend to be big. And that means turning over the balance state of the game every 3 months. People prefer slow, gradual changes over repeated apocalypses.

2. Each patch introduces a lot of... let's say, missed ideas. But, since the balance patches are infrequent, unless the problem is both gamebreaking and in players' favour, we know those problems won't be fixed for at least another 3 months. And even then Anet is likely to either overcompensate (thus, creating another problem) or undercompensate, which may extend the fix for the problem for a year or more.

All of those are a direct consequence of the infrequent balance schedule.

I think you cut out the part of my post that mentioned better balance updates.As for "better balance updates", well... yeah, ideally that would be good, but practically that's not going to happen. It's not something that can be changed by just wanting it. In the end, in the game with system as complex as in GW2, no amount of theoretical thinking will replace actually seeing the results and adjusting to them. It's obvious they simply cannot predict most of the end results of the changes they introduced. That's what necessitates endless chains of changes patch after patch

And you don't need frequent updates to keep people playing your game. FFXIV is a shining example of ignoring player feedback and releasing some really stupid class changes that nobody wants and abandoning it for years until the next expansion.First, they have a much simpler system - they do not have to worry about what skills/gear/traits people will have, because there's not much choice for that (there's some with gear, but even that is extremely limited). And as for rotations, they are something they actually plan themselves. With very small potential for surprises, there's a much smaller margin for error. Second, if you haven't noticed, for the most part the "really stupid class changes that nobody wants" usually

do

work out. If there are reasons why people are disappointed, those generaly lie in the realm of aestethics, not mechanics.

Besides, the quality of the story (in expacs, even if not in the base ARR core) and amount of content in FFXiV is much greater than in GW2. No surprising, considering it is a subscription based game with a much bigger budget.

Besides, I personally liked some of the changes in the most recent balance patch for the things I'm actually familiar with. So no, I don't think they need to make more frequent balance changes necessarily."I liked the changes, so all changes are fine, and they don't need to change anything now". Yes. That's definitely a quality argument.

And I don't agree that just spewing out more potentially bad balance patches will be any better, it would just be annoying. Especially when most of the changes are largely irrelevant to PvE, the game mode most people care about.

Much simpler system in FFXIV and they still can't fix things. Largely aesthetic? Mmm no. Throughout the entirety of Stormblood, Samurai and Red Mage were largely seen as irrelevant for end game group content. Dark knight severely under-performed in nearly every category compared to the other tanks and was very clunky to play. Machinist was nearly impossible to actually play correctly if you had even the slightest amount of lag. Things like Ninja were a must have because of basically just 1 skill they had. Monk was clunky and given an kitten backwards GCD slowdown skill that contradicts the playstyle. Etc. Sure, they've addressed a lot of those with Shadowbringers now, but that took them literal years, until a new expansion, to change. And kitten like Riddle of Fire still exists on Monk. Astrologian supposedly sucks right now (I don't play it though). Haven't played Shadowbringers long enough to see if most other changes were even that great. But it took years for things to get updates. I'll gladly take balance changes for most classes every few months over that.

Quality of story is subjective. I flat out disagree and think GW2 has a better story. Amount of content is arguable. Does FFXIV technically have more

overall

content? Sure. Is most of it irrelevant and ignored? Yup. Took me weeks of sitting in Party Finder, waiting for people to help, just to do a Savage Raid from Heavensward for a glamour chest piece. Because most of their old content is irrelevant to most people. Only reason you can still find people to do most of the dungeons with is because of roulettes. I'll take GW2's content that people actually still do over that. At least GW2 maps actually have something to offer, like meta events.

Not only shadowbringers is the highest rated expansion on meta critic but ppl who played all say it draws from plot seed placed years ago and does them justice while providing whats argueably one of the best final fantasy stories in years. And it goes beyond that, the story actually rivals other story based games outside the mmo sphere.

Overall? Just the expansion already dropped with tons of story content 7 or so new dungeons, new jobs, skills crafting upgrades etc on top of already having the first wing of the new tier. Overall ff14 has tones of content but when you look at it on an expac basis it blows gw2 out the water.

[Ototo.3214]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:Idk, people seem to hate it whenever balance patches actually do hitThat's because:

1. since patches are infrequent, they tend to be big. And that means turning over the balance state of the game every 3 months. People prefer slow, gradual changes over repeated apocalypses.

2. Each patch introduces a lot of... let's say, missed ideas. But, since the balance patches are infrequent, unless the problem is both gamebreaking and in players' favour, we know those problems won't be fixed for at least another 3 months. And even then Anet is likely to either overcompensate (thus, creating another problem) or undercompensate, which may extend the fix for the problem for a year or more.

All of those are a direct consequence of the infrequent balance schedule.

I think you cut out the part of my post that mentioned better balance updates.As for "better balance updates", well... yeah, ideally that would be good, but practically that's not going to happen. It's not something that can be changed by just wanting it. In the end, in the game with system as complex as in GW2, no amount of theoretical thinking will replace actually seeing the results and adjusting to them. It's obvious they simply cannot predict most of the end results of the changes they introduced. That's what necessitates endless chains of changes patch after patch

And you don't need frequent updates to keep people playing your game. FFXIV is a shining example of ignoring player feedback and releasing some really stupid class changes that nobody wants and abandoning it for years until the next expansion.First, they have a much simpler system - they do not have to worry about what skills/gear/traits people will have, because there's not much choice for that (there's some with gear, but even that is extremely limited). And as for rotations, they are something they actually plan themselves. With very small potential for surprises, there's a much smaller margin for error. Second, if you haven't noticed, for the most part the "really stupid class changes that nobody wants" usually

do

work out. If there are reasons why people are disappointed, those generaly lie in the realm of aestethics, not mechanics.

Besides, the quality of the story (in expacs, even if not in the base ARR core) and amount of content in FFXiV is much greater than in GW2. No surprising, considering it is a subscription based game with a much bigger budget.

Besides, I personally liked some of the changes in the most recent balance patch for the things I'm actually familiar with. So no, I don't think they need to make more frequent balance changes necessarily."I liked the changes, so all changes are fine, and they don't need to change anything now". Yes. That's definitely a quality argument.

And I don't agree that just spewing out more potentially bad balance patches will be any better, it would just be annoying. Especially when most of the changes are largely irrelevant to PvE, the game mode most people care about.

Much simpler system in FFXIV and they still can't fix things. Largely aesthetic? Mmm no. Throughout the entirety of Stormblood, Samurai and Red Mage were largely seen as irrelevant for end game group content. Dark knight severely under-performed in nearly every category compared to the other tanks and was very clunky to play. Machinist was nearly impossible to actually play correctly if you had even the slightest amount of lag. Things like Ninja were a must have because of basically just 1 skill they had. Monk was clunky and given an kitten backwards GCD slowdown skill that contradicts the playstyle. Etc. Sure, they've addressed a lot of those with Shadowbringers now, but that took them literal years, until a new expansion, to change. And kitten like Riddle of Fire still exists on Monk. Astrologian supposedly sucks right now (I don't play it though). Haven't played Shadowbringers long enough to see if most other changes were even that great. But it took years for things to get updates. I'll gladly take balance changes for most classes every few months over that.

Quality of story is subjective. I flat out disagree and think GW2 has a better story. Amount of content is arguable. Does FFXIV technically have more

overall

content? Sure. Is most of it irrelevant and ignored? Yup. Took me weeks of sitting in Party Finder, waiting for people to help, just to do a Savage Raid from Heavensward for a glamour chest piece. Because most of their old content is irrelevant to most people. Only reason you can still find people to do most of the dungeons with is because of roulettes. I'll take GW2's content that people actually still do over that. At least GW2 maps actually have something to offer, like meta events.

Not only shadowbringers is the highest rated expansion on meta critic but ppl who played all say it draws from plot seed placed years ago and does them justice while providing whats argueably one of the best final fantasy stories in years. And it goes beyond that, the story actually rivals other story based games outside the mmo sphere.

Overall? Just the expansion already dropped with tons of story content 7 or so new dungeons, new jobs, skills crafting upgrades etc on top of already having the first wing of the new tier. Overall ff14 has tones of content but when you look at it on an expac basis it blows gw2 out the water.

Yet here I am, already bored of the new FFXIV content, playing GW2 because FFXIV's content is "Ok cool you did the new stuff once....now repeat it ad nauseum." Like I said, entirely subjective. Didn't say Shadowbringers was bad either lol. I enjoyed the story. But a play it once and done story isn't going to keep me playing for months. And the new content simply makes the old content irrelevant. I don't see people jumping to do older raids in FFXIV yet I see people clearing all the GW2 raids weekly since the rewards are still relevant.

[dodgerrule.8739]

There should be a look at classes every few weeks and close monitoring after the changes were made.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Hynax.9536 said:if you check the Category: Balance Updates on the wiki I believe we get them quite frequently actually.I mean what is the point of changing class skills and mechanics every month? You have to change and give time for people to theorycraft and optmize with the new features. If you keep changing things every month only players with full legendary set would be able to keep up and enjoy every patch.And remember that we generally need a lot of hotfixes after a balance update because our comunity is great in finding broken/exploitable traits/skills combos.

I would 100% agree with this if there weren’t tons of specs/traits/weapons BEGGING to be made more useful. And it would also potentially reduce damage done by patches faster. For example, the current state of Power Engineer after this patch is awful, and now people need to wait 2-4 months before the spec has a chance of becoming better. As a Revenant main since HoT there was a year time period where Revenant just didnt exist in organized PvE because it was in such a poor place in terms of what it offered. This was awful and it absolutely sucked to be a Rev main during that time if you were into organized content like I was. An entire year! More balance patches, even if they’re smaller and just largely number tweaks, would help them bring classes that are falling behind back up to speed faster, which is healthy for the community and the game

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ototo.3214 said:Much simpler system in FFXIV and they still can't fix things. Largely aesthetic? Mmm no. Throughout the entirety of Stormblood, Samurai and Red Mage were largely seen as irrelevant for end game group content. Dark knight severely under-performed in nearly every category compared to the other tanks and was very clunky to play. Machinist was nearly impossible to actually play correctly if you had even the slightest amount of lag. Things like Ninja were a must have because of basically just 1 skill they had. Monk was clunky and given an kitten backwards GCD slowdown skill that contradicts the playstyle. Etc. Sure, they've addressed a lot of those with Shadowbringers now, but that took them literal years, until a new expansion, to change. And kitten like Riddle of Fire still exists on Monk. Astrologian supposedly sucks right now (I don't play it though). Haven't played Shadowbringers long enough to see if most other changes were even that great. But it took years for things to get updates. I'll gladly take balance changes for most classes every few months over that.

So, you're against more frequent balance updates. And then you complain about FFXIV balance, and the main reason of your complains seems to be due to how infrequent their balance patches are.Logic.

[Bladestrom.6425]

It's such an obvious thing, I think people just argue for the sake of it, they argue for poorer outcomes lol. If you asked anyone if they had a choice between tweaking their character incrementally and frequently or once every 2 months no gamer is going to argue for the latter, because ofc you are unlikely to perefect your char with infrequent changes. Same logic with professions.

Put it another way, if anet told players they could only tweak their char once every 2 months then we would tell them don't be ridiculous.

[b k.1648]

Tweaking your own character is just a little bit different from updates that tweak everyone's characters whether they want it or not.

[Ototo.3214]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:Much simpler system in FFXIV and they still can't fix things. Largely aesthetic? Mmm no. Throughout the entirety of Stormblood, Samurai and Red Mage were largely seen as irrelevant for end game group content. Dark knight severely under-performed in nearly every category compared to the other tanks and was very clunky to play. Machinist was nearly impossible to actually play correctly if you had even the slightest amount of lag. Things like Ninja were a must have because of basically just 1 skill they had. Monk was clunky and given an kitten backwards GCD slowdown skill that contradicts the playstyle. Etc. Sure, they've addressed a lot of those with Shadowbringers now, but that took them literal years, until a new expansion, to change. And kitten like Riddle of Fire still exists on Monk. Astrologian supposedly sucks right now (I don't play it though). Haven't played Shadowbringers long enough to see if most other changes were even that great. But it took years for things to get updates. I'll gladly take balance changes for most classes every few months over that.

So, you're against more frequent balance updates. And then you complain about FFXIV balance, and the main reason of your complains seems to be due to how infrequent their balance patches are.Logic.

No, it was an example of how it isn't necessary and includes examples to counter your false statements.Like I said, if they could I'm sure they would. But it isn't necessary.