Meta has been stale for too long

[otto.5684]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:Mainly due to the strength of revs, the top end needs a damage shave so other classes can compete.

The last big change to the meta was scrapper buffs a year ago, since then it's been a whole lot of nothing to shake things up =/

People are losing interest because it's getting boring and you never know what killed you, you can't see any of the 10k+ Rev hits since they all get culled

There were 2 major other changes to the meta since the beginning of this year: guardian power builds pushed out and mirage pushed out. But, ya, everything else is almost the same since more than a year now.

As for power herald in sPvP, I never really understood most of the complaints. Unless you are playing in 1700 rated games, is rev, no matter how skilled they are, a problem? Herald requires much prerequisites to function at top tier, which outside of AT, almost never present.

Though, I agree with you. Things are incredibly stale.

[lunaeclipse.6843]

Problem is, everything needs to be toned down, and toned down at the same time.

Nerf Rev, and something else just takes its place. FB, scourge, and rev all need to be toned down in the same go-around.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:snip

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I don't know how often you play Rev in a group setting, but for me, that's about 75% of my WvW game play, and I'm not seeing what you are seeing.

Firstly, generally speaking, you're not going to run Brutality because Swift Termination is part of what makes Rev so effective at finishing off downs. Typically the Scourge bomb will either drop people to low health or even into downed state, both places where that 20% damage helps finish the job. I'm also not sure what 'shredding stability' has to do with anything because if a backline Rev is in your grill, getting CCd is not longer a major concern, but getting trampled is.

Secondly, Vengeful Hammers is never used for DPS by any decent Rev in any critical situation. If you're PPTing empty Lords room, sure, but then why not just stay in Glint for max DPS? But if you're in a scrap in melee range, you are swapping to VH only to keep yourself alive with the extra DR, or maybe to help cleave downs...otherwise you would want to save your energy for Inspiring Reinforcement or RoTGD. (personally I'd rather cleave downs in Glint with Elemental/Chaotic Release or using Surge of the Mists)

Also, why shouldn't Inspiring Reinforcement do damage again?

As for ranged CC, Drop the Hammer is more about area denial, triggering marks, and taking down those who are unaware. If I cast that spell 10 times against a decent enemy, I might land it 30% of the time. And even so, why can't Revenant have a ranged CC? I can tell you both Mesmers and Necros have much more impactful ranged CC as it also pulls you out of position/off walls.

I mean, should we talk about nerfing Prime Light Beam? I think most players agree that if a player eats a PLB, they should practice using their keyboard more for dodging than for posting on forums.

I'm certainly getting that you don't like to fight against Heralds, and that's fair, but that's not the reason for nerfs. I could give you a list of all the professions I wish could get changed because I hate fighting them, and you could just as easily tear apart my argument.

I also agree that Rev is powerful, and there are definitely moments when it seems TOO powerful...but those are just moments, brief parts of a fight, and the same could be said of pretty much every meta build you see on the field. We can all do stupid OP stuff - the only question is how frequently can we do it, and what impact does it have.

Lastly, the ratios still don't prove your point, at least not in the groups I'm in. Granted I'm not playing in 50 person closed guild squads, so their tactics might be different, but in your average squad, even when meta builds are enforced, Scourge still has a 2-1 ratio to Revs; I pay attention to this because I'll swap in/out of Draconic Echo depending on how many Heralds there are per subsquad.

Anyone who says Hammer Herald needs buffs or isn't competitive in group WvW play is obviously trolling, but I don't see a case that Rev is overpowered - it is just good at what it does, and it is the only profession that can do what it does...but the exact same thing can be said of FB, Scourge, Weaver/Tempest, and Scrapper (in group settings). So if everyone is equally overpowered, then overpowered is just "normal"

Now obviously some people will just jump on the whole "Rev main sighted" train, but the intellectually stunted aren't of concern to me. I'm not going to listen to criticism from the BMW dealer about the Mercedes I'm driving, y'know....especially if they don't really spend any time driving one.

If you're running glassy on rev, you can expect 10k+ hits. Since most wvw builds have ~20k hp, swift termination only helps secure kills against players that are in minstrels within a small range. Everyone else you'd already down without the trait, which is why it's only worth running over brutality if you're in mostly marauder gear. For players with the average skill level, herald is well balanced. For high end players/groups that can survive in mostly berserker gear, herald is wildly unbalanced. With 2x brutality revs per party, the enemy group might as well not have firebrands.

You're right though, if a backline rev is in your face you're getting trampled. Because that's the meta, pirate ship with revs until the enemy group is small enough to one push. Which is exactly what this thread is about, the meta is stale in large part due to how good rev hammer is at pirate shipping.

Yeah, bad communication on my part. You wouldn't use VH in a fight unless you want a quick tag on a down as you run over them. I'm saying rev's damage is so nuts that to top damage on lords all you need to do is AA and use VH. The class has way too much damage, in particular stacking damage modifiers.

Good places for nerfs would be:-replacing vicious lacerations with something that is only useful in pve, like increased damage to non moving targets by 15%-Decreasing the power contribution to hammer skills by 20% and increasing the CDs of 2/3/5 by 50% to 6s/12s/20s-Lower or remove the damage from inspiring reinforcement and increase the CD to 15s-Lower the range of hammer skills to 900

Good places for compensation would be:-Fixing the pathing of CoR so it can connect on inclines and ignore small rocks-Decrease the cast time of DTH to 1.5s-Lower the cost of inspiring reinforcement to 15 energy

Neither would affect herald in pve while reducing their top end effectiveness in wvw. Not gutting their effectiveness, just reducing it so people don't explode from low cd invisible aoes.

Why does a utility skill that grants stability and inflicts weakness have a 1.5 power modifier? That's better than most classes weapon skills. It should have at most a 1.0 modifier. Easy shave to an overloaded skill.

I'm thinking you mean phase smash for blowing marks? If you're having problems landing DTH, that's on you man. 1.75 cast time means place it where they will be, not where they are. Unlike similar skills for other professions, you can even move while casting it so you can stay stacked.

I'm not saying gut herald, it is definitely needed as a ranged power damage dealer. I'm saying it currently is so strong that it defines the meta and has done so for over a year with scourge and firebrand. Most classes can't fight at 1200 range, as it stands if you aren't running very tanky you can't get close enough for half your group to land skills against a group with good heralds. It makes for incredibly boring gameplay.

I mean... people play scourge because it's literally faceroll. You dump everything on your bar and only have to really manage your dodges. That makes it very attractive to new players or players who want to get shitfaced and still contribute lol

You said it yourself, herald is the only profession that can do what it does. But how much more interesting would the meta be if it wasn't? It would take a large rework to make other support classes viable, but a couple minor nerfs to rev and it opens the field up to several dps classes

[crepuscular.9047]

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:Rev are > @RisenHowl.2419 said:

Mainly due to the strength of revs, the top end needs a damage shave so other classes can compete.

The last big change to the meta was scrapper buffs a year ago, since then it's been a whole lot of nothing to shake things up =/

People are losing interest because it's getting boring and you never know what killed you, you can't see any of the 10k+ Rev hits since they all get culled

wait, 10k is a problem? so de's 15k+ is not a problem?

everything needs a huge overhaul, there's too much multi target boons, too much mobile aoe dmg, too much aoe sustain, dmg too high

The 10k is not reflectable, spotable and aoe

De's 15k is single target' projectile from someone standing still

rev is a 1 hit wonder, De is basically a hidden gatling gun, take you down with 2 consecutive hits out from nowhere

i can bet there are more deaths from pewpew de, pewpew ranger, scourage bombers than rev's hammer

We talk about groupfight meta, not your individual failure to break Line of sight

I play all of them, hammer rev is completely nothing in group fights, 99% of the time is completed absorbed by barriers and heals

scourge bomb + firebrand combo is way for toxic in the current meta in group fights

Great, then you also know how much bigger the range aoe damage is of revs compared to other classes. Which also have the problem of the firebrand scourge combo..

unless you are constantly fighting at chokes, hammer revs' hammer attacks are pretty useless in open space fights; like i said, majority of the time it just get completely ignored because of the vast amount of barriers being pumped out in zerg groups

[narcx.3570]

Haha, someone moved your nerf-rev-thread to the rev forums, where the only replies you're going to get are "l2 dodge the big, obvious telegraphs."

[RisenHowl.2419]

@"narcx.3570" said:Haha, someone moved your nerf-rev-thread to the rev forums, where the only replies you're going to get are "l2 dodge the big, obvious telegraphs."

Yeah, pretty confused why they would move a thread about the wvw meta to the Rev forum. I'm all ears if anyone has a way to stop the pirate ship other than taking Rev down a couple notches.

Right, the ones that get culled if there's more than 30 people involved

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

If you're running glassy on rev, you can expect 10k+ hits. Since most wvw builds have ~20k hp, swift termination only helps secure kills against players that are in minstrels within a small range. Everyone else you'd already down without the trait, which is why it's only worth running over brutality if you're in mostly marauder gear. For players with the average skill level, herald is well balanced. For high end players/groups that can survive in mostly berserker gear, herald is wildly unbalanced. With 2x brutality revs per party, the enemy group might as well not have firebrands.

I can't debate this as I've never been a number cruncher. I do run full zerk/scholar with mara trinkets, but this was always the meta build and it always made sense to me as being the better option in a zerg setting. Also wouldn't stability just get corrupted anyways?

@RisenHowl.2419 said:You're right though, if a backline rev is in your face you're getting trampled. Because that's the meta, pirate ship with revs until the enemy group is small enough to one push. Which is exactly what this thread is about, the meta is stale in large part due to how good rev hammer is at pirate shipping.

Back to my point above, I mean, maybe I'm doing it wrong, but as a backline I'm following the Scourge carpet of death into the other group. While the commander is calling out for range pressure, I'm just tossing out Hammer 1 and Hammer 5 while the Necros are tossing out marks. But it is the Scourge who lead the charge with circle spam, I'm on their coattails finishing off weakened/downed opponents. So to my view, it is the Scourge who dictate how long we all stand as a group and stare at the other team, not the Rev.

@RisenHowl.2419 said:-Lower or remove the damage from inspiring reinforcement and increase the CD to 15s-Lower the range of hammer skills to 900

IR is one of the main reasons a Rev would run Jalis. Nerfing that would just move everyone over to Shiro, which is better overall for personal DPS and survivability, but worse overall for the group. I don't have any issue with the damage because that isn't why I use it. See below for more.

900 range isn't ranged anymore.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a Scourge has 900 unit range on the shade, but that would be to the center of the shade, no? With a radius of 180 units, that means the edge of a shade circle would be 1080 units, meaning if you reduce Hammer range to 900, we'd be eating shades before we could even hit the enemy.

@RisenHowl.2419 said:Why does a utility skill that grants stability and inflicts weakness have a 1.5 power modifier? That's better than most classes weapon skills. It should have at most a 1.0 modifier. Easy shave to an overloaded skill.

As I said above, not a number cruncher, so I'll take your word on power modifiers. Truth told, I never pay attention to the damage done by IR simply because I use it for utility/survivability, not for DPS - in fact, if I've switched to Jalis, it's because we are under pressure, and my energy is now devoted to sustain/survivability over damage.

@RisenHowl.2419 said:I'm thinking you mean phase smash for blowing marks? If you're having problems landing DTH, that's on you man. 1.75 cast time means place it where they will be, not where they are. Unlike similar skills for other professions, you can even move while casting it so you can stay stacked.

I might not have been clear, the issue isn't me not landing them, but other players dodging out of the radius, even if you lead them correctly. Also pretty sure it gets absorbed by block and aegis, so again those who get knocked on their behinds are the exception, not the rule, at least in large engagements. In smaller fights, I agree it's very powerful, but also easier to spot. Similar to my comparison to PLB - great if you connect, but most skilled players can get out of its way.

Also worth noting that 1.75 sec cast time is a DPS loss. Minor point, but one worth making. Drop the Hammer imo isn't something you use off cooldown like you would CoR.

@RisenHowl.2419 said:I mean... people play scourge because it's literally faceroll. You dump everything on your bar and only have to really manage your dodges. That makes it very attractive to new players or players who want to get shitfaced and still contribute lol

I tried for a while to get Scourge down, but in the end what I found I disliked the most was finding myself with all shades on cooldown, forced to use my weapons for meager DPS. Rev obviously has little downtime by comparison.

@RisenHowl.2419 said:You said it yourself, herald is the only profession that can do what it does. But how much more interesting would the meta be if it wasn't? It would take a large rework to make other support classes viable, but a couple minor nerfs to rev and it opens the field up to several dps classes

Sure that would be ideal, but as I said, only Firebrand can do what it can do; same applies to Scourge, Scrapper, and Ele. No other profession can fart out boons/stab like FB along with heals, retaliation and reflects, no other profession can do massive boon rip/corrupt like Scourge (Winds is a close 2nd, but still 2nd), no one can do condition cleanse / uncorrupt (?) like a Scrapper, and nobody can clear siege or promote area denials like an Ele.

It is what it is.

I will say though, at one point in WoW's lifespan, classes were unique, and you brought specific builds for specific roles/utility. Over time they homogenized all the classes so everyone had everything, out of a sense of 'fairness and balance', and the players have only expressed how awful they find classes now. Recently the head dev admitted they went too far in class pruning and homogenization, and are looking to fix that.

So having Rev being the only one who can do what Rev can isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially given how easy it is to create a new character, gear them, and all achievements etc are account bound.

Again I will disagree, the issue behind current Pirate Ship isn't Rev, but Scourge. With no circle spam of death in the way, you would see predominantly melee pushes behind winds , shielded from projectiles and CC from FB spam, and once you are face to face with an enemy Rev backline, those zerk wearing Revs are toast unless they are fast on their Reposting, which also means they will revert from running Jallis. So many changes right there, all because Scourge isn't directing the fight.

It's why I'm kinda upset we didn't get an actual Core only event. I would still have run Core Hammer Rev, but it would have been interesting to see what a lack of Scourge and FB spam looked like. :disappointed:

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@"narcx.3570" said:Haha, someone moved your nerf-rev-thread to the rev forums, where the only replies you're going to get are "l2 dodge the big, obvious telegraphs."

Yeah, pretty confused why they would move a thread about the wvw meta to the Rev forum. I'm all ears if anyone has a way to stop the pirate ship other than taking Rev down a couple notches.

Right, the ones that get culled if there's more than 30 people involved

Pirate ship is directly caused by Scourge, not Rev. Hammer Rev is just opportunistic and shines during pirate ship which means it’s always going to be a major player during that type of meta. But it isn’t the reason for the meta type or else the meta would have been pirate ship entirely since HoT release

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:Hammer Rev is just opportunistic

I think that is a very apt description for Hammer Rev, and is very much on display when they engage as a +1.

[lare.5129]

I was try platy whit revenant. it failed and too nerfed now. Back to my boonscraper and happy.So strange hear that someone think that rev is op )) lol

[ArthurDent.9538]

People also need to realize that revenant hammer is extremely bad at just about everything in the game except for wvw zerging in a pirate ship meta. It has next to no place in spvp, endgame pve, or small scale wvw roaming and it isn't good in close combat once the pirate ship is broken. Why is it so bad in these areas? Because it has the slowest attack rate of any weapon in the game while not offering much other than raw damage. It tries to make up for low attack rate with a high damage per hit, but in the end, the massive cast times are too much and the overall dps is just not good. The only reason why it works in large scale wvw is because you have ranged aoe, that doesn't completely get countered by projectile hate that is not in the form of pulsing aoes which make for super obvious telegraphs even in the chaos of a zerg v zerg fight. So what we have is a niche weapon being complained about because it actually is pretty good in its one niche and being asked to be gutted so that it is average at the one thing it is good at while remaining garbage everywhere else. So if you want to lower the damage per hit you need to increase the hits per second so hammer isn't left as a niche weapon without an actual niche.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

What if scourges weapon dps was slightly increased and all of its shades dps was reduced to 0 and used only for debuff purposes?

[crepuscular.9047]

@"narcx.3570" said:Haha, someone moved your nerf-rev-thread to the rev forums, where the only replies you're going to get are "l2 dodge the big, obvious telegraphs."

:lol: :lol: :lol: the mods just threw the lion into a pond of piranhas

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

If you're running glassy on rev, you can expect 10k+ hits. Since most wvw builds have ~20k hp, swift termination only helps secure kills against players that are in minstrels within a small range. Everyone else you'd already down without the trait, which is why it's only worth running over brutality if you're in mostly marauder gear. For players with the average skill level, herald is well balanced. For high end players/groups that can survive in mostly berserker gear, herald is wildly unbalanced. With 2x brutality revs per party, the enemy group might as well not have firebrands.

I can't debate this as I've never been a number cruncher. I do run full zerk/scholar with mara trinkets, but this was always the meta build and it always made sense to me as being the better option in a zerg setting. Also wouldn't stability just get corrupted anyways?

corrupts are random, so you might corrupt stab or you might corrupt regen. Brutality is a guarantee, but is again only better if you're already in full/almost full zerker gear where the benefit of swift termination aren't as good

@RisenHowl.2419 said:You're right though, if a backline rev is in your face you're getting trampled. Because that's the meta, pirate ship with revs until the enemy group is small enough to one push. Which is exactly what this thread is about, the meta is stale in large part due to how good rev hammer is at pirate shipping.

Back to my point above, I mean, maybe I'm doing it wrong, but as a backline I'm following the Scourge carpet of death into the other group. While the commander is calling out for range pressure, I'm just tossing out Hammer 1 and Hammer 5 while the Necros are tossing out marks. But it is the Scourge who lead the charge with circle spam, I'm on their coattails finishing off weakened/downed opponents. So to my view, it is the Scourge who dictate how long we all stand as a group and stare at the other team, not the Rev.

You're doing it wrong, or rather your commander is. It's better to call rev bombs at 1200 range and unload 2/3/5 where they'll have the most effect. At the least it should be 2/3 since 2 gets significantly stronger at 1200 range than 900, sometimes it's better to save 5 for once the scourges hit to maybe get a CC. With brutality, 2/3/5 should be combo'd so you strip the most stability before using 5. Your role as a rev is to chunk with other revs at 1200 range with big spike damage to generate downs, then as you move in closer the scourge aoe can finish them while disrupting any revivers.

Here's a good video of a rev played well:

You'll notice he isn't targeting the enemy frontline where he'll be hitting mostly firebrands, he's focusing instead on the enemy midline/backline because they're much squishier targets where his hits will inflict the maximum punishment and generate the most downs.

Try playing a scourge (not with staff though because it's awful) and you'll see how big the damage difference is. Scourges actually benefit from being in <300 range so they can double the number of targets they're hitting, which doubles their damage.

@RisenHowl.2419 said:-Lower or remove the damage from inspiring reinforcement and increase the CD to 15s-Lower the range of hammer skills to 900

IR is one of the main reasons a Rev would run Jalis. Nerfing that would just move everyone over to Shiro, which is better overall for personal DPS and survivability, but worse overall for the group. I don't have any issue with the damage because that isn't why I use it. See below for more.

900 range isn't ranged anymore.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a Scourge has 900 unit range on the shade, but that would be to the center of the shade, no? With a radius of 180 units, that means the edge of a shade circle would be 1080 units, meaning if you reduce Hammer range to 900, we'd be eating shades before we could even hit the enemy.

By reducing the energy cost from 30 to 15, it's far more potent as a support/utility skill. Dropping the damage or reducing it significantly wouldn't impact most herald players at all. That's why i suggested the compensation =D

You're 100% right on why reducing hammer to 900 range would be a bad idea, good call lol

@RisenHowl.2419 said:I'm thinking you mean phase smash for blowing marks? If you're having problems landing DTH, that's on you man. 1.75 cast time means place it where they will be, not where they are. Unlike similar skills for other professions, you can even move while casting it so you can stay stacked.

I might not have been clear, the issue isn't me not landing them, but other players dodging out of the radius, even if you lead them correctly. Also pretty sure it gets absorbed by block and aegis, so again those who get knocked on their behinds are the exception, not the rule, at least in large engagements. In smaller fights, I agree it's very powerful, but also easier to spot. Similar to my comparison to PLB - great if you connect, but most skilled players can get out of its way.

Also worth noting that 1.75 sec cast time is a DPS loss. Minor point, but one worth making. Drop the Hammer imo isn't something you use off cooldown like you would CoR.

It sounds like you're aiming your DTH at the frontline where all the boons are, try placing it ~300-450 range away from their tag and watch the magic happen. There's no damage loss if your other hammer skills are on CD since the AA is reflectable =D

@RisenHowl.2419 said:I mean... people play scourge because it's literally faceroll. You dump everything on your bar and only have to really manage your dodges. That makes it very attractive to new players or players who want to get shitfaced and still contribute lol

I tried for a while to get Scourge down, but in the end what I found I disliked the most was finding myself with all shades on cooldown, forced to use my weapons for meager DPS. Rev obviously has little downtime by comparison.

Try this:

you'll get much better results with scourge

@RisenHowl.2419 said:You said it yourself, herald is the only profession that can do what it does. But how much more interesting would the meta be if it wasn't? It would take a large rework to make other support classes viable, but a couple minor nerfs to rev and it opens the field up to several dps classes

Sure that would be ideal, but as I said, only Firebrand can do what it can do; same applies to Scourge, Scrapper, and Ele. No other profession can fart out boons/stab like FB along with heals, retaliation and reflects, no other profession can do massive boon rip/corrupt like Scourge (Winds is a close 2nd, but still 2nd), no one can do condition cleanse / uncorrupt (?) like a Scrapper, and nobody can clear siege or promote area denials like an Ele.

It is what it is.

Agreed on everything but boon rip, a spellbreaker built for it often matches or exceeds scourges according to arcdps. It's just melee, which isn't popular in the current meta

I will say though, at one point in WoW's lifespan, classes were unique, and you brought specific builds for specific roles/utility. Over time they homogenized all the classes so everyone had everything, out of a sense of 'fairness and balance', and the players have only expressed how awful they find classes now. Recently the head dev admitted they went too far in class pruning and homogenization, and are looking to fix that.

So having Rev being the only one who can do what Rev can isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially given how easy it is to create a new character, gear them, and all achievements etc are account bound.

Again I will disagree, the issue behind current Pirate Ship isn't Rev, but Scourge. With no circle spam of death in the way, you would see predominantly melee pushes behind winds , shielded from projectiles and CC from FB spam, and once you are face to face with an enemy Rev backline, those zerk wearing Revs are toast unless they are fast on their Reposting, which also means they will revert from running Jallis. So many changes right there, all because Scourge isn't directing the fight.

It's why I'm kinda upset we didn't get an actual Core only event. I would still have run Core Hammer Rev, but it would have been interesting to see what a lack of Scourge and FB spam looked like. :disappointed:

Scourge damage/utility needs toned down as well, i'm not going to argue that lol

It's heralds though that are dictating the ranged meta. If you don't run them, you won't win fights because other groups can just kite you while they whittle away at your numbers.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:People also need to realize that revenant hammer is extremely bad at just about everything in the game except for wvw zerging in a pirate ship meta. It has next to no place in spvp, endgame pve, or small scale wvw roaming and it isn't good in close combat once the pirate ship is broken. Why is it so bad in these areas? Because it has the slowest attack rate of any weapon in the game while not offering much other than raw damage. It tries to make up for low attack rate with a high damage per hit, but in the end, the massive cast times are too much and the overall dps is just not good. The only reason why it works in large scale wvw is because you have ranged aoe, that doesn't completely get countered by projectile hate that is not in the form of pulsing aoes which make for super obvious telegraphs even in the chaos of a zerg v zerg fight. So what we have is a niche weapon being complained about because it actually is pretty good in its one niche and being asked to be gutted so that it is average at the one thing it is good at while remaining garbage everywhere else. So if you want to lower the damage per hit you need to increase the hits per second so hammer isn't left as a niche weapon without an actual niche.

You're right, hammer isn't useful anywhere but wvw. Most classes have full weapon sets that aren't useful anywhere, so....?

The changes i suggested for rev hammer wouldn't remove its identity and it would remain almost as strong as it currently is for most players. It would decrease the scaling for top end players significantly though, which is where the problem lies.

Right now hammer has high hits per second and high damage, which is why it edges out almost every other damage dealer and decreases diversity

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@"narcx.3570" said:Haha, someone moved your nerf-rev-thread to the rev forums, where the only replies you're going to get are "l2 dodge the big, obvious telegraphs."

:lol: :lol: :lol: the mods just threw the lion into a pond of piranhas

bite me harder sempaiiiiiii