Upcoming class changes

[Jeffcyb.9817]

The issue is in the order in which they make the changes.If, and i mean IF, they ever make a change on how clones work in all modes (because let's face it, after reading the notes, i don't think they take WvW as a part of their reflexions), then maybe, we'll have a feeling of being a bit useful again in zerg fights.

Problem is... they nerf the whole thing before even considering working on the clones mecanic.Maybe it's harder than for other classes and stuff... but then why not discuss it with the Mesmer community, and see where it can lead, instead of just doing that, and then see how it goes ?

[Pyroatheist.9031]

@Jeffcyb.9817 said:The issue is in the order in which they make the changes.If, and i mean IF, they ever make a change on how clones work in all modes (because let's face it, after reading the notes, i don't think they take WvW as a part of their reflexions), then maybe, we'll have a feeling of being a bit useful again in zerg fights.

Problem is... they nerf the whole thing before even considering working on the clones mecanic.Maybe it's harder than for other classes and stuff... but then why not discuss it with the Mesmer community, and see where it can lead, instead of just doing that, and then see how it goes ?

Yeah, that's a pretty good point, and it's a very systemic issue with the Anet balance team. They have extremely little game experience, and so they usually have no clue what the actual ramifications of their changes will be. That results in them making really poor decisions that require a fix, but they only get around to implementing that fix months or years later. Could removal of illusionary persona be fine alongside a rework of clone mechanics? Sure, but they're gonna make the first change now, and probably never get around to fixing clones.

[Henrik.7560]

chrono changes are garbage and making it more useless in anything outside pve raids.

[Jeffcyb.9817]

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Jeffcyb.9817 said:The issue is in the order in which they make the changes.If, and i mean IF, they ever make a change on how clones work in all modes (because let's face it, after reading the notes, i don't think they take WvW as a part of their reflexions), then maybe, we'll have a feeling of being a bit useful again in zerg fights.

Problem is... they nerf the whole thing before even considering working on the clones mecanic.Maybe it's harder than for other classes and stuff... but then why not discuss it with the Mesmer community, and see where it can lead, instead of just doing that, and then see how it goes ?

Yeah, that's a pretty good point, and it's a very systemic issue with the Anet balance team. They have extremely little game experience, and so they usually have no clue what the actual ramifications of their changes will be. That results in them making really poor decisions that require a fix, but they only get around to implementing that fix months or years later. Could removal of illusionary persona be fine alongside a rework of clone mechanics? Sure, but they're gonna make the first change now, and probably never get around to fixing clones.

And it creates another big problem for players. Guys like me, who don't PvE/farm a lot and so don't get rich quickly enough to adapt on changes and stuff at least 2 or 3 caracters for WvW (if they want to play WvW) won't be able to do much until... the next balance patch that might ruin their work again.

Why don't Anet comes down Mt Olympus and have a chat with us is still beyond my understanding.

[Xstein.2187]

Conspiracy Theory:But what ifff . . . . Just what iffff . . . . . . . . . . . the cool down of continuum split is no longer 105 seconds after the the shatter renovation?.....PFFFFFffff! LMFAO! LOL I CRACK MYSELF UP SOMETIMES!Only when golden pig minis fly and Tyria freezes over!

[MesmerizedNYC.2479]

Well one thing I'm glad for, no more F5. And that's solely because of key mapping issues i have with my finger dexterity and the layout of my keys. In WvW I main on Mirage but in PvE to stay practiced with Mezzy, I go Chrono or Core. The F5 made me remap keys each time through my Razer software for "PvE Mez" lol. Now I can use the same key map for all my mezzies.

Regarding the other changes to Chrono, thank goodness I just completed my WVW legendary armor set. There's going to be a lot of tinkering with Chrono in the next 3 months to see if I can get to something viable so no expensive Asc gear conversions. My goal will be to maximize superspeed/stealth (via recent MoM changes) and dazes while inflicting as much slow as possible. I've not found anything viable in current Chrono for this so far but things may change a bit. The focus of this is to get something that's viable for Chrono WvW solo roaming.

[Justine.6351]

lol @ merging CS with distortion. That someone actually wasted the time to remove a skill that someone else took the time to add years ago, to keep the 2 very different utilities separate, is just hilarious. Not even chono haters in spvp could have thought of a change this idiotic.

Like lol, I go to use distortion to get out of a bad situation but then CS ends and I am dumped right back into the mess. Brilliance.Gl to any chronos who want to double gravity well in wvw zerging lol...

[Xstein.2187]

@Justine.6351 said:lol @ merging CS with distortion. That someone actually wasted the time to remove a skill that someone else took the time to add years ago, to keep the 2 very different utilities separate, is just hilarious. Not even chono haters in spvp could have thought of a change this idiotic.

Like lol, I go to use distortion to get out of a bad situation but then CS ends and I am dumped right back into the mess. Brilliance.Gl to any chronos who want to double gravity well in wvw zerging lol...

It has mainly to do with traits that play off of it, such as Inspiring Distortion.

[Curunen.8729]

@"Mikkel.8427" said:I'm really excited to test these changes. They finally put some work and thought into making Chrono feel like a real Espec instead of just Mesmer with Continuum Split tacked on. I do agree losing Illusionary Persona absolutely kills the entire spec in WvW. That's more of a problem with how clones function, though. Which should be something they consider adjusting in the future.

They actually CHANGED things. I'm still in shock.

Yeah I'm still surprised they went and did something that seemed like it would never happen, changing F skills.

Sure they're going to need to supplement Chrono properly for "losing IP", but now they are willing to make bigger changes at least gives some hope for future patches to do something significant.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Ok. Guys dont panic. I am chrono main in raids and this is my favorite chrono patch since phantasm changes.Uptimes will be the sameEvents (tc, escort, spiritrun...) might be more dificult without shatters for stab/condi clense/alacrity/quicknessCc is slightly worseDistortion removal means no more shake distorts (sadly) and more planning is required for blocks - reward for good chronos.Dps diference of good and bad chrono will be higher because slow uptime will increse your dps even more.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Regarding chrono shatters, just like I said somewhere when ANet announced tradeoffs, these are just the same shatters with a different name. Lack of imagination at its finest.Can't we have gw1 skill designers back?

No IP on chrono means the all favourite double "new fancy mind shatter new name" burst is dead. Heck you cant even use F3 to f1 burst.All in all even core is better than chrono and core is absolute trash.These balance guys are so out of touch...

[foste.3098]

idk lads, i think chrono will be fine after patch. You get more powerful shatters with the caveat of having clones up, just like it was in gw2 core.

I think this will work: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8ensIClphVoB2oBEgilTj6sKiimgMAWgCoear2uF-jZxHQBw7JAYvyAA4gAQi9HI4FAAAYou use traited phantasmal berzerker as ammo for your mind wreck burst which is powered up by casting power lock beforehand to apply slow though lost time and thus power up your burst even more due to danger time. Time catches up ensures your clones blitz to their target before getting cleaved down and shattered concentration softens up your target for follow ups (basically the standard gs burst but you have to wait a moment for the phantasms to become clones).To finish the build off you have inspiration for condition cleansing and to improve your signets.

[praqtos.9035]

@"foste.3098" said:idk lads, i think chrono will be fine after patch. You get more powerful shatters with the caveat of having clones up, just like it was in gw2 core.

I think this will work: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8ensIClphVoB2oBEgilTj6sKiimgMAWgCoear2uF-jZxHQBw7JAYvyAA4gAQi9HI4FAAAYou use traited phantasmal berzerker as ammo for your mind wreck burst which is powered up by casting power lock beforehand to apply slow though lost time and thus power up your burst even more due to danger time. Time catches up ensures your clones blitz to their target before getting cleaved down and shattered concentration softens up your target for follow ups (basically the standard gs burst but you have to wait a moment for the phantasms to become clones).To finish the build off you have inspiration for condition cleansing and to improve your signets.You have a very little understanding of the memser... =/Like its trying to this abomination to work, back then in 2012 "every mesmer and their mothers" had to trait for illusionary persona to make mesmer work, HOW THE HECK ITS GOING TO WORK NOW WITHOUT IT?!All shatters are the same as @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said. Chrono wouldnt give a damn even if they delete f2 instead as no condi build is possible on chrono, with further core condition traits being heavily nerfed. The only difference suggested change that someone said loud "what if they delete f4 as a trade off...." happened .... @Heartpains.7312 dont you said yourself, mesmer players kill the class? :DI'm not looking forward to chrono changes, I can see how terrible its going to be, just as it was in 2012, at least back then we had traits that boosted clone/phanasms HP and gave retialiation to phantasms, which was deleted and signet of illusions lost HP boost so they die too quick now. Even Illusionary Reversion is gutted and not fixed for current chrono.Like you use f4 but your clones disappeared, phantasms takes 2 years to become a clone, from what I can imagine its just really bad.Power block bug still not fixed, skillful interrupt traits must be ruined in favor of CC spam for the better results.We will see if its going to be that bad pretty soon

[phokus.8934]

It seems Mirage will get the F skill changes next balance patch.

[Jeffcyb.9817]

@"foste.3098" said:idk lads, i think chrono will be fine after patch. You get more powerful shatters with the caveat of having clones up, just like it was in gw2 core.

I think this will work: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8ensIClphVoB2oBEgilTj6sKiimgMAWgCoear2uF-jZxHQBw7JAYvyAA4gAQi9HI4FAAAYou use traited phantasmal berzerker as ammo for your mind wreck burst which is powered up by casting power lock beforehand to apply slow though lost time and thus power up your burst even more due to danger time. Time catches up ensures your clones blitz to their target before getting cleaved down and shattered concentration softens up your target for follow ups (basically the standard gs burst but you have to wait a moment for the phantasms to become clones).To finish the build off you have inspiration for condition cleansing and to improve your signets.

Same as praqtos there.You don't really understand how it works.Again, speaking only for WvW since i don't do raids (never did any, lot of personnal issues).In WvW Zerg, chronos are "mainly" used to proc a veil, a gravity well, and do some pulls with the focus.So far, the grav is on a 90sec CD, does a "little" bit of CC, and a "little bit" of damage if you're stuffed for Zerg fights. Meaning either Minstrel support, or Damage light support with marauders and such...At least, with the Time-continuum shift, we were able, without having to get a clone on and keep it alive, to proc 2 gravity wells when we wanted/needed to.

Now, we'll have to hope we proc a clone, hope we can keep it alive for the right moment we can cast the grav and hope we don't have a sloppy guard or we don't have or stability removed as we proc that grav along with the T-C Shift...

A lot of things that can go awfully wrong for such a small gain in zerg fights, since we're not the strongest CCs or DPSs.It's just not worth enough to come as a Chrono in WvW for zerg and be there just to cast a veil and try a pull while kiting away and maybe a grav.

[Heartpains.7312]

@praqtos.9035 said:

Yes mesmers kills mesmer, this will never change it seems, wait til patch hit and you see more suggestions of how to kill mesmer by mesmers :mask: ( the mask to hide my identity) =p

@"phokus.8934" said:It seems Mirage will get the F skill changes next balance patch.

Let them leave mirage shatters the way it is, they will need to be working on chrono shatters for a while lol, doesn't matter if the next patch make chrono shatters better or worse, if it is better which i doubt that (wait til you wonder why your shatters are not working because there is holo or something) anyway if it is better people will whine, if it is worse well we will whine, so leaving it broken "use broken as double sided here" aka extremely strong or extremely weak, they will need to work on them, they can't just leave them at that and go mess mirage too. (we have some real mesmers haters, spot them!)

For the people who thinks that they are finally daring, they are not, these changes are just randomly, and they seem to want them to have the same effect as the previous shatters. f1 deals damage, f2 condi blablabla (I had to double check that) WHAT IS THE POINT!!!!!

So please, let them at least keep mirage shatters the way they are I wanna be able to play Guild Wars 2 and not Forums Wars 2.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@phokus.8934 said:It seems Mirage will get the F skill name changes next balance patch.

FTFY

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I think dune cloak + auspicious anguish will make mirage over the top again. even if there is a small cd to AA its still gonna be pretty op, and chaos needed even more buffs lol.

[praqtos.9035]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think dune cloak + auspicious anguish will make mirage over the top again. even if there is a small cd to AA its still gonna be pretty op, and chaos needed even more buffs lol.Have you any idea that mirage will never take dune cloak as dropping IH means spec becomes unviable ?Calling nerfs before anything went live, how typical from the clueless people. It was a replacement because F4 became CS for the chrono or you want chrono to use CS 3 times in a row? I wouldnt mind that since this trade off is a complete bs and nowhere near to be fair

[Curunen.8729]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think dune cloak + auspicious anguish will make mirage over the top again. even if there is a small cd to AA its still gonna be pretty op, and chaos needed even more buffs lol.

DC+AA is certainly an interesting thing, maybe even with traited signets (distortion for AA) for some kind bunker condi boonspam mirage (as would have to take chaos and inspiration). Not really my cup of tea but will try it out. Wouldn't be surprised if it results in some kind of ridiculously annoying build as is usually the case following changes like this.

[Heartpains.7312]

Why are people so interested in the new Dune Cloak? I mean I don't think it will be worth taking over IH at all not for condi and not for power. :bawling:

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think dune cloak + auspicious anguish will make mirage over the top again. even if there is a small cd to AA its still gonna be pretty op, and chaos needed even more buffs lol.Have you any idea that mirage will never take dune cloak as dropping IH means spec becomes unviable ?Calling nerfs before anything went live, how typical from the clueless people. It was a replacement because F4 became CS for the chrono or you want chrono to use CS 3 times in a row? I wouldnt mind that since this trade off is a complete bs and nowhere near to be fair

lol, well somehow after every op mes build gets nerfed, another op one pops up. color me unoptimistic about said changes, but underplaying the potential here is naivety at best.

[Curunen.8729]

@Heartpains.7312 said:Why are people so interested in the new Dune Cloak? I mean I don't think it will be worth taking over IH at all not for condi and not for power. :bawling:

IH is certainly still going to be better but I think there's a troll build waiting to be made with the new Dune Cloak, AA and maybe signets.

In any case the effect of IH is so crucial it should be available for all mirage builds, which hopefully Anet consider in the next patch when they're likely to do to mirage what they're about to so to chrono.

[Tiipi.6750]

Chrono aside why did they nerf mirage cloak again ? After the mirage cloak duration nerf, jaunt nerf and now superspeed nerf AOEs are now mirage's worst nightmare ... nice ...

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@everyman.4375 said:Chrono aside why did they nerf mirage cloak again ? After the mirage cloak duration nerf, jaunt nerf and now superspeed nerf AOEs are now mirage's worst nightmare ... nice ...

I'm just going to say that mirage will get nerfed every patch to calm down the hordes of crying monkeys. If mirage doesn't get any nerf they will give birth to a thousand threads asking why the godmode mirage didn't get nerfs. Heck even this way they say its a buff.