Upcoming class changes

penguin zombies.9305 · July 12, 2019

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
@everyman.4375 said:Chrono aside why did they nerf mirage cloak again ? After the mirage cloak duration nerf, jaunt nerf and now superspeed nerf AOEs are now mirage's worst nightmare ... nice ...

I'm just going to say that mirage will get nerfed every patch to calm down the hordes of crying monkeys. If mirage doesn't get any nerf they will give birth to a thousand threads asking why the godmode mirage didn't get nerfs. Heck even this way they say its a buff.

How could this be seen as a buff? Genuinely asking, not meaning to be mean.

Lincolnbeard.1735 · July 12, 2019

@penguin zombies.9305 said:
@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
@"everyman.4375" said:Chrono aside why did they nerf mirage cloak again ? After the mirage cloak duration nerf, jaunt nerf and now superspeed nerf AOEs are now mirage's worst nightmare ... nice ...

I'm just going to say that mirage will get nerfed every patch to calm down the hordes of crying monkeys. If mirage doesn't get any nerf they will give birth to a thousand threads asking why the godmode mirage didn't get nerfs. Heck even this way they say its a buff.

How could this be seen as a buff? Genuinely asking, not meaning to be mean.

You should ask the "knowledgeable community", not me.

viquing.8254 · July 12, 2019

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

Chaos interrupt will fall in the unused builds like it always be once people start playing with condiclear and more defense again.BTW about the note :

What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

Will see how did it perform with other changes.

BTW WHERE IS THE GLAMOUR TRAIT :

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/72428/when-will-the-glamour-trait-come-back

Come on please...

the three purple/pink dots next to shatters now reflect on non-shattered clones only rather than included ones running towards enemy for shatter.

To clarify further, it's a cosmetic change only and has no gameplay implications.

The changes to chrono being unable to self-shatter, on the other hand, is pretty devastating for any hope of mesmer being usable in WvW groups. It's also just generally a miserable change from a QoL perspective. There's a good reason why almost every single build in vanilla took illusionary persona until it became baseline.

To be fair, IP was predominant only on the forum elitist power "shatter is skill" mafia.What we saw in game was wy more diversified from full clone spam to PU direct burst with hybrid focus, glamour WvW few rupt builds etc.I'm pretty sure there were more clone death based builds than IP builds.

BTW thanks for explanation about illusion count.

Pyroatheist.9031 · July 12, 2019

@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

Chaos interrupt will fall in the unused builds like it always be once people start playing with condiclear and more defense again.BTW about the note :

What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

Will see how did it perform with other changes.

BTW WHERE IS THE GLAMOUR TRAIT :

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/72428/when-will-the-glamour-trait-come-back

Come on please...

the three purple/pink dots next to shatters now reflect on non-shattered clones only rather than included ones running towards enemy for shatter.

To clarify further, it's a cosmetic change only and has no gameplay implications.

The changes to chrono being unable to self-shatter, on the other hand, is pretty devastating for any hope of mesmer being usable in WvW groups. It's also just generally a miserable change from a QoL perspective. There's a good reason why almost every single build in vanilla took illusionary persona until it became baseline.

To be fair, IP was predominant only on the forum elitist power "shatter is skill" mafia.What we saw in game was wy more diversified from full clone spam to PU direct burst with hybrid focus, glamour WvW few rupt builds etc.I'm pretty sure there were more clone death based builds than IP builds.

BTW thanks for explanation about illusion count.

I explained this more in another thread, but you had 2 broad archetypes of mesmer builds: builds that used shatters and builds that ignored them completely. The difference was IP. Now in 2019, Anet has gone to great lengths to try and make all mesmer builds rely heavily on shattering, and Chrono builds are no exception. Without IP though...it'll be trash.

The problem is that Anet balances on a spreadsheet and goes "well, we can remove this mechanic and they'll still be fine, look at this calculation". In reality, these changes make the class miserable to play even if it's still technically capable and viable.

Pallas.9318 · July 12, 2019

say bye bye to wvw zerg/group chrono. They killed it once again. Its just so damn disappointing. Its already scrapper stealth over vail, dmg in zergs is also not that great and you gotta take care of every step you take because you are prob oneshot. There is grav but with that stab nowadays. they make this class useless in blob fights. Im waiting for a patch that will show some love for Mesmer and not only nerfs that make ppl swap to other classes instead.

viquing.8254 · July 12, 2019

@"Pyroatheist.9031" said:I explained this more in another thread, but you had 2 broad archetypes of mesmer builds: builds that used shatters and builds that ignored them completely. The difference was IP. Now in 2019, Anet has gone to great lengths to try and make all mesmer builds rely heavily on shattering, and Chrono builds are no exception. Without IP though...it'll be trash.
The problem is that Anet balances on a spreadsheet and goes "well, we can remove this mechanic and they'll still be fine, look at this calculation". In reality, these changes make the class miserable to play even if it's still technically capable and viable.

Hmm, I disagree because even before IP baseline, every build used shatter. Even me on a full clonespam like 20/25/15/10/0. Mean I didn't know a build who never shatter before IP baseline.Every builds used shatters, phantasm and on death even by specing into one prefered gameplay.

Though I agree that with the on death removal + IP baseline we get only the shatter gameplay option during a long time until mirage and clones ambush pop. (We also lose some other gameplay like your retaliation build.) I find the HoT mono-gameplay period really boring...

We will have to look about the numbers on the news chrono shatters but I don't think IP is that mandatory to perform.

phokus.8934 · July 13, 2019

@viquing.8254 said:
@"Pyroatheist.9031" said:I explained this more in another thread, but you had 2 broad archetypes of mesmer builds: builds that used shatters and builds that ignored them completely. The difference was IP. Now in 2019, Anet has gone to great lengths to try and make all mesmer builds rely heavily on shattering, and Chrono builds are no exception. Without IP though...it'll be trash.
The problem is that Anet balances on a spreadsheet and goes "well, we can remove this mechanic and they'll still be fine, look at this calculation". In reality, these changes make the class miserable to play even if it's still technically capable and viable.

Hmm, I disagree because even before IP baseline, every build used shatter. Even me on a full clonespam like 20/25/15/10/0. Mean I didn't know a build who never shatter before IP baseline.Every builds used shatters, phantasm and on death even by specing into one prefered gameplay.

Though I agree that with the on death removal + IP baseline we get only the shatter gameplay option during a long time until mirage and clones ambush pop. (We also lose some other gameplay like your retaliation build.) I find the HoT mono-gameplay period really boring...

We will have to look about the numbers on the news chrono shatters but I don't think IP is that mandatory to perform.Before IP baseline every build had IP.

Batel.9206 · July 13, 2019

So...I'm completely new to playing mesmer. I wanted to build my mesmer into a chronomancer tank/boon-share support (following the build on metabattle). Is that sort of build and gameplay going to be terribly affected/badly nerfed by these changes to chronos?

Pyroatheist.9031 · July 13, 2019

@viquing.8254 said:
@"Pyroatheist.9031" said:I explained this more in another thread, but you had 2 broad archetypes of mesmer builds: builds that used shatters and builds that ignored them completely. The difference was IP. Now in 2019, Anet has gone to great lengths to try and make all mesmer builds rely heavily on shattering, and Chrono builds are no exception. Without IP though...it'll be trash.
The problem is that Anet balances on a spreadsheet and goes "well, we can remove this mechanic and they'll still be fine, look at this calculation". In reality, these changes make the class miserable to play even if it's still technically capable and viable.

Hmm, I disagree because even before IP baseline, every build used shatter. Even me on a full clonespam like 20/25/15/10/0. Mean I didn't know a build who never shatter before IP baseline.Every builds used shatters, phantasm and on death even by specing into one prefered gameplay.

Incorrect. Phantasm builds avoided shattering at all costs because it destroyed their damage resources. You'd only ever use distortion, and even then it was a substantial loss to use it because then you had to re-summon all the phantasms. Similarly, clone death builds avoided shattering unless you needed to destroy phantasms that had built up. Shattering was strictly worse than destroying the clones in all situations, so you avoided it unless you absolutely had to.

The only builds that regularly shattered intentionally were builds taking IP.

Pyroatheist.9031 · July 13, 2019

@Batel.9206 said:So...I'm completely new to playing mesmer. I wanted to build my mesmer into a chronomancer tank/boon-share support (following the build on metabattle). Is that sort of build and gameplay going to be terribly affected/badly nerfed by these changes to chronos?

From a spreadsheet composition standpoint, Chrono will be just as good as it is now. From a playability and QoL standpoint, Chrono will be miserable.

Batel.9206 · July 13, 2019

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Batel.9206 said:So...I'm completely new to playing mesmer. I wanted to build my mesmer into a chronomancer tank/boon-share support (following the build
on metabattle). Is that sort of build and gameplay going to be terribly affected/badly nerfed by these changes to chronos?

From a spreadsheet composition standpoint, Chrono will be just as good as it is now. From a playability and QoL standpoint, Chrono will be miserable.

Thanks for the answer! :) 'Tis all I wanted to know.

Henrik.7560 · July 13, 2019

The change is fucking garbage it would make sense for mirage to lose distort not chrono ffs

Heartpains.7312 · July 13, 2019

@Henrik.7560 said:The change is kitten garbage it would make sense for mirage to lose distort not chrono kitten

Why would that make sense, please explain.

viquing.8254 · July 13, 2019

@phokus.8934 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@"Pyroatheist.9031" said:I explained this more in another thread, but you had 2 broad archetypes of mesmer builds: builds that used shatters and builds that ignored them completely. The difference was IP. Now in 2019, Anet has gone to great lengths to try and make all mesmer builds rely heavily on shattering, and Chrono builds are no exception. Without IP though...it'll be trash.
The problem is that Anet balances on a spreadsheet and goes "well, we can remove this mechanic and they'll still be fine, look at this calculation". In reality, these changes make the class miserable to play even if it's still technically capable and viable.

Hmm, I disagree because even before IP baseline, every build used shatter. Even me on a full clonespam like 20/25/15/10/0. Mean I didn't know a build who never shatter before IP baseline.Every builds used shatters, phantasm and on death even by specing into one prefered gameplay.

Though I agree that with the on death removal + IP baseline we get only the shatter gameplay option during a long time until mirage and clones ambush pop. (We also lose some other gameplay like your retaliation build.) I find the HoT mono-gameplay period really boring...

We will have to look about the numbers on the news chrono shatters but I don't think IP is that mandatory to perform.Before IP baseline every build had IP.

Nop tha'ts just what I explained.

viquing.8254 · July 13, 2019

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:I explained this more in another thread, but you had 2 broad archetypes of mesmer builds: builds that used shatters and builds that ignored them completely. The difference was IP. Now in 2019, Anet has gone to great lengths to try and make all mesmer builds rely heavily on shattering, and Chrono builds are no exception. Without IP though...it'll be trash.
The problem is that Anet balances on a spreadsheet and goes "well, we can remove this mechanic and they'll still be fine, look at this calculation". In reality, these changes make the class miserable to play even if it's still technically capable and viable.

Hmm, I disagree because even before IP baseline, every build used shatter. Even me on a full clonespam like 20/25/15/10/0. Mean I didn't know a build who never shatter before IP baseline.Every builds used shatters, phantasm and on death even by specing into one prefered gameplay.

Incorrect. Phantasm builds avoided shattering at all costs because it destroyed their damage resources. You'd only ever use distortion, and even then it was a substantial loss to use it because then you had to re-summon all the phantasms. Similarly, clone death builds avoided shattering unless you needed to destroy phantasms that had built up. Shattering was strictly worse than destroying the clones in all situations, so you avoided it unless you absolutely had to.

The only builds that regularly shattered intentionally were builds taking IP.

A good F3 rupt was used even in clone death, same with F1/F2 depending on direct/condi dammage during a sword 3 immob for example to put a mini pressure spike.Only in PvE phantasm build never use shatter but in PvP/WvW I never see a mesmer who never shatter and I'm not talking about only F4.Btw I'm pretty sure majority of mesmers didn't use IP before june 2015.Watch the old mesmer video thread pre-HoT : most builds didn't use IP.There were aslo shatter builds without ip with just DE. IP was just an easy way to get 1 more perma free clone.

Pyroatheist.9031 · July 13, 2019

@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:I explained this more in another thread, but you had 2 broad archetypes of mesmer builds: builds that used shatters and builds that ignored them completely. The difference was IP. Now in 2019, Anet has gone to great lengths to try and make all mesmer builds rely heavily on shattering, and Chrono builds are no exception. Without IP though...it'll be trash.
The problem is that Anet balances on a spreadsheet and goes "well, we can remove this mechanic and they'll still be fine, look at this calculation". In reality, these changes make the class miserable to play even if it's still technically capable and viable.

Hmm, I disagree because even before IP baseline, every build used shatter. Even me on a full clonespam like 20/25/15/10/0. Mean I didn't know a build who never shatter before IP baseline.Every builds used shatters, phantasm and on death even by specing into one prefered gameplay.

Incorrect. Phantasm builds avoided shattering at all costs because it destroyed their damage resources. You'd only ever use distortion, and even then it was a substantial loss to use it because then you had to re-summon all the phantasms. Similarly, clone death builds avoided shattering unless you needed to destroy phantasms that had built up. Shattering was strictly worse than destroying the clones in all situations, so you avoided it unless you absolutely had to.

The only builds that regularly shattered intentionally were builds taking IP.

A good F3 rupt was used even in clone death, same with F1/F2 depending on direct/condi dammage during a sword 3 immob for example to put a mini pressure spike.Only in PvE phantasm build never use shatter but in PvP/WvW I never see a mesmer who never shatter and I'm not talking about only F4.Btw I'm pretty sure majority of mesmers didn't use IP before june 2015.Watch the old mesmer video thread pre-HoT : most builds didn't use IP.There were aslo shatter builds without ip with just DE. IP was just an easy way to get 1 more perma free clone.

Nah, you really didn't do that almost ever. In theory you could interrupt things with F3, but usually you'd just block it with the scepter and get more damage out of it. Clone death relied on you letting the enemy attack, interrupting them went against the concept of the setup.

Phantasms were similar. The cost of using any shatter was enormous because you lost all of your damage pressure. You'd shatter only if you had absolutely no other option, and it sucked when you were forced to do that. Generally if you were forced to shatter defensively to interrupt a skill or protect, you were already on the back foot and losing the fight.

There were indeed shatter builds just using DE, not IP, but they were bad, that's just how it was. DE was a master tier trait back then, so you'd take 30 illusions, 20 dueling, and 20 pick your own adventure for a shatter build. If you didn't do that, your shatter build was bad, no questions asked. Recall that the whole shatter setup relied on being able to do a daze into the shatter combo, but you couldn't do that without IP. Additionally, because of how the IP damage calculation worked, not using IP resulted in your shatters being anywhere from 50% to 80%ish as strong as someone using IP. It simply was not an optional trait for a build intending on shattering.

Xaylin.1860 · July 13, 2019

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:From a spreadsheet composition standpoint, Chrono will be just as good as it is now. From a playability and QoL standpoint, Chrono will be miserable.

This.

While I'm very very pleased Mesmers finally get alternative Shatter skills, I got two issues with the teased changes.

First, the alternative Shatters can work out depending on their numbers but they sound very boring. ANet could and should have gone a longer way. I'm not expecting FB-like Shatters, but changes comparable to DH should be possible. I have been theorycrafting a class rework for Mesmers because I had to travel for work a lot lately. One idea I was tinkering with is a pulsing area effect around the Chrono which all leave behind a rift like CS for counterplay. It would be less bursty and therefore offer an alternative playstyle. It also ties in with the defensive capabilities of Chronos and their Wells. Now, for Mirage: I'm really hoping for Mirage Cloak through Shatters instead of Mirrors or dodging. It would suit the class way better and would solve the issue of your F-skills being less desirable for Mesmers yet again.

Second, losing IP is a very irritating decision. It clearly is meant as a trade-off. But as Pyro said: It mainly affects QoL, not necessarily performance (possible exceptions: large scale fights, especially in WvW). However, if the deal with Chrono Shatters is supposed to be 'thoughtful use' and 'harder set up', why not just make the baseline effect weak as hell and significantly increase the potency based on the number of Illusions? Like... just as the description tells you? Why yet another hoop to jump through? From a design point of view, there is absolutely no reason for Chronomancers to lose IP.

That aside, I like the changes overall even though we don't know the numbers yet. It's just not enough for the time they take to put those out. I'm especially interested in the Thief changes. I don't want to cry about yet another class getting formerly Mesmer exclusive stuff - Shadow Arts and Traps desperately needed a rework. I'm genuinely excited about those specific changes even though they might cause a lot of trouble for Mesmers in PvP.

viquing.8254 · July 13, 2019

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:I explained this more in another thread, but you had 2 broad archetypes of mesmer builds: builds that used shatters and builds that ignored them completely. The difference was IP. Now in 2019, Anet has gone to great lengths to try and make all mesmer builds rely heavily on shattering, and Chrono builds are no exception. Without IP though...it'll be trash.
The problem is that Anet balances on a spreadsheet and goes "well, we can remove this mechanic and they'll still be fine, look at this calculation". In reality, these changes make the class miserable to play even if it's still technically capable and viable.

Hmm, I disagree because even before IP baseline, every build used shatter. Even me on a full clonespam like 20/25/15/10/0. Mean I didn't know a build who never shatter before IP baseline.Every builds used shatters, phantasm and on death even by specing into one prefered gameplay.

Incorrect. Phantasm builds avoided shattering at all costs because it destroyed their damage resources. You'd only ever use distortion, and even then it was a substantial loss to use it because then you had to re-summon all the phantasms. Similarly, clone death builds avoided shattering unless you needed to destroy phantasms that had built up. Shattering was strictly worse than destroying the clones in all situations, so you avoided it unless you absolutely had to.

The only builds that regularly shattered intentionally were builds taking IP.

A good F3 rupt was used even in clone death, same with F1/F2 depending on direct/condi dammage during a sword 3 immob for example to put a mini pressure spike.Only in PvE phantasm build never use shatter but in PvP/WvW I never see a mesmer who never shatter and I'm not talking about only F4.Btw I'm pretty sure majority of mesmers didn't use IP before june 2015.Watch the old mesmer video thread pre-HoT : most builds didn't use IP.There were aslo shatter builds without ip with just DE. IP was just an easy way to get 1 more perma free clone.

Nah, you really didn't do that almost ever. In theory you could interrupt things with F3, but usually you'd just block it with the scepter and get more damage out of it. Clone death relied on you letting the enemy attack, interrupting them went against the concept of the setup.

Phantasms were similar. The cost of using any shatter was enormous because you lost all of your damage pressure. You'd shatter only if you had absolutely no other option, and it sucked when you were forced to do that. Generally if you were forced to shatter defensively to interrupt a skill or protect, you were already on the back foot and losing the fight.

There were indeed shatter builds just using DE, not IP, but they were bad, that's just how it was. DE was a master tier trait back then, so you'd take 30 illusions, 20 dueling, and 20 pick your own adventure for a shatter build. If you didn't do that, your shatter build was bad, no questions asked. Recall that the whole shatter setup relied on being able to do a daze into the shatter combo, but you couldn't do that without IP. Additionally, because of how the IP damage calculation worked, not using IP resulted in your shatters being anywhere from 50% to 80%ish as strong as someone using IP. It simply was not an optional trait for a build intending on shattering.

It was better to rupt a heal or other keyskill than to leave clones alive.Phantasms rarely lived more than 1 attacks in a PvP/WvW environnement so shatter them didn't waste the illusion.Burst builds with PU exists even before the PU pre-HoT upgrade and a duel versus a PU direct build vs a IP build was in favor of the PU build.

Ultramex.1506 · July 13, 2019

They could have changed how chrono wells function because it's less useful in WvW compare to other classes' wells, i mean give boon until it expire? Everyone can't stand still for more than 2 sec

Pyroatheist.9031 · July 13, 2019

@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:I explained this more in another thread, but you had 2 broad archetypes of mesmer builds: builds that used shatters and builds that ignored them completely. The difference was IP. Now in 2019, Anet has gone to great lengths to try and make all mesmer builds rely heavily on shattering, and Chrono builds are no exception. Without IP though...it'll be trash.
The problem is that Anet balances on a spreadsheet and goes "well, we can remove this mechanic and they'll still be fine, look at this calculation". In reality, these changes make the class miserable to play even if it's still technically capable and viable.

Hmm, I disagree because even before IP baseline, every build used shatter. Even me on a full clonespam like 20/25/15/10/0. Mean I didn't know a build who never shatter before IP baseline.Every builds used shatters, phantasm and on death even by specing into one prefered gameplay.

Incorrect. Phantasm builds avoided shattering at all costs because it destroyed their damage resources. You'd only ever use distortion, and even then it was a substantial loss to use it because then you had to re-summon all the phantasms. Similarly, clone death builds avoided shattering unless you needed to destroy phantasms that had built up. Shattering was strictly worse than destroying the clones in all situations, so you avoided it unless you absolutely had to.

The only builds that regularly shattered intentionally were builds taking IP.

A good F3 rupt was used even in clone death, same with F1/F2 depending on direct/condi dammage during a sword 3 immob for example to put a mini pressure spike.Only in PvE phantasm build never use shatter but in PvP/WvW I never see a mesmer who never shatter and I'm not talking about only F4.Btw I'm pretty sure majority of mesmers didn't use IP before june 2015.Watch the old mesmer video thread pre-HoT : most builds didn't use IP.There were aslo shatter builds without ip with just DE. IP was just an easy way to get 1 more perma free clone.

Nah, you really didn't do that almost ever. In theory you could interrupt things with F3, but usually you'd just block it with the scepter and get more damage out of it. Clone death relied on you letting the enemy attack, interrupting them went against the concept of the setup.

Phantasms were similar. The cost of using any shatter was enormous because you lost all of your damage pressure. You'd shatter only if you had absolutely no other option, and it sucked when you were forced to do that. Generally if you were forced to shatter defensively to interrupt a skill or protect, you were already on the back foot and losing the fight.

There were indeed shatter builds just using DE, not IP, but they were bad, that's just how it was. DE was a master tier trait back then, so you'd take 30 illusions, 20 dueling, and 20 pick your own adventure for a shatter build. If you didn't do that, your shatter build was bad, no questions asked. Recall that the whole shatter setup relied on being able to do a daze into the shatter combo, but you couldn't do that without IP. Additionally, because of how the IP damage calculation worked, not using IP resulted in your shatters being anywhere from 50% to 80%ish as strong as someone using IP. It simply was not an optional trait for a build intending on shattering.

It was better to rupt a heal or other keyskill than to leave clones alive.

Sometimes true, but really depended on class honestly. A lot of heal skills weren't really interruptable, a la withdraw, a lot of classes protected the heal skills with stability and such. It was very situational.

Phantasms rarely lived more than 1 attacks in a PvP/WvW environnement so shatter them didn't waste the illusion.

Correct, phantasms rarely lived more than 1 attack...which is why nobody played phantasm builds in actual competitive environments. You still didn't shatter them...you just didn't play them at all.

Burst builds with PU exists even before the PU pre-HoT upgrade and a duel versus a PU direct build vs a IP build was in favor of the PU build.

Burst builds with PU did exist, but they were generally rather weak. While a matchup between a PU build and an IP build favored the PU build, the PU build was disfavorable for pretty much any other actual matchup because you simply couldn't deliver the oomph necessary to burst people down properly.

viquing.8254 · July 13, 2019

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:I explained this more in another thread, but you had 2 broad archetypes of mesmer builds: builds that used shatters and builds that ignored them completely. The difference was IP. Now in 2019, Anet has gone to great lengths to try and make all mesmer builds rely heavily on shattering, and Chrono builds are no exception. Without IP though...it'll be trash.
The problem is that Anet balances on a spreadsheet and goes "well, we can remove this mechanic and they'll still be fine, look at this calculation". In reality, these changes make the class miserable to play even if it's still technically capable and viable.