Please gut Condi Daredevil and Acro Staff Daredevil

Azure The Heartless.3261 · August 20, 2019

@Burnfall.9573 said:
@"saerni.2584" said:“No skill” and “toxic” aren’t categories Anet uses for balance. I really wish these discussions wouldn’t always end up with people throwing around terms like “cheese” as though the term was a self evident truth that justified whatever nerf they wanted.
Those terms are opinions that, basically, something should be nerfed, without any valid/accepted “because” statement. The only “because” I see in these posts is “because it isn’t fun to fight” or “because it doesn’t take enough skill to play.”
However, Anet rarely/never balances around “I don’t have fun fighting an opponent.” And, Anet really doesn’t want to exclude people from PvP by requiring a narrow kind of “skill” in order to be able to play PvP.
What Anet does balance around is total effectiveness, counterplayability and build diversity. Sticking to those areas will make your arguments not only better, generally, but will make them more appealing and convincing to Anet.

https://g33kp0rn.wordpress.com/2017/09/27/toxic-gamers-are-to-blame-for-bad-business-practises/

I'd consider someone demanding that a class be absolutely deleted from the current meta numerous times, without regard for the work involved in balancing for the vacuum that is left behind to be toxic.Just saying. It's very obvious you are dissatisfied with Mesmer/Thief to the point that you want the entire game to be redone just so you don't have to deal with them.The whole GW2 story is based around the complications that can occur when you just rip things you think are bad out of the ecosystem without trying to fix it nondestructively. I'm pretty sure you're going to be wasting your time pushing for what equates to arm amputation because of dissatisfaction with your fingers.

@"draxynnic.3719" said:Kudos for applying the "try it before calling OP" principle.
I think part of the problem in that specific build is that ArenaNet didn't consider the possibility of someone using pistol/nothing for anything other than early leveling, and Repeater is balanced on the assumption that it's a flipover for Shadow Strike. 2 initiative is far too little for what it does when you can spam it freely.
It's from a later post, but you're definitely right about the Lotus being easier to land than Bound - to the point that when I was originally playing Daredevil in PvE back in the early HoT days, I used Lotus instead of Bound even on power builds because I could dodge freely and still get something out of the trait. Bound requires dodging towards the target or you won't hit anything - Lotus you can just dodge anywhere and likely you'll get a dagger flying in the target's direction. It's just that it went under the radar before because, outside of that annoying permastealth trapper troll build, condi thief (let alone condi daredevil) has never really been viable.
So my gut feeling is that Lotus Training might well be the culprit here. Certainly, it seems to be the thing you'd be able to nerf without catching other, non problematic thief builds on the side.

Agreed. If repeater is bugging you go ahead and push to nerf it, it just seems like a really weird thing to nerf.As I mentioned before I'd be fine with lotus training doing spike dot application if you dodge through someone, in exchange for it not throwing daggers when you dodge. Or, if that messes up PVE content, make the daggers do only condi impairment and then the actual dodge be the meat of the damage.

Rukia.4802 · August 20, 2019

@mehelpu.7160 said:
@Rukia.4802 said:
@mehelpu.7160 said:
@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:
@mehelpu.7160 said:For all those who accuse thief's gameplay being toxic: I challenge you to play the entire next season as a meta s/d core thief. Minimum 300 games. No switches/rerolls, just no gimmicks, no stealth abuse, no one-shot potential, all well rounded power core s/d thief.I bet you change your mind very soon.

And then try s/d condi Daredevil or staff/staff Daredevil for 10 games. I bet you will change your mind again very soon.

I've tried both. More than 3k games as power core s/d and about 500 games as condi drd. That's why I know what am I talking about. What's your numbers as a thief?

Thief main since beta, what is your point? Are you saying DD condi is not easy af or toxic? I would rather d/p be meta again but why when I can play something with a sliver of the effort and do far better. There is 0 skill in DD condi .

The point is that condi DD is as easy and toxic as most other meta builds of all the times. They always have some toxicity build in be it CC spam, extraordinary mobility, stealth abuse, sustain abuse, condi spam or a combination of those.

The actual problem with condi drd is that people do not want to accept that their main could be beaten by a thief, especially if it was destroing other thief specs for ages. Despite the fact that condi drd sacrifices all the mobility, stealth on demand, surprise +1s, etc.

You must be joking... DD condi sacrifices that for safe nigh unlimited condi spam with sword 2 and dodge. Anyone who has mained thief knows this ish is trash cancer. We are a power burst spec... this is a sad state for the thief to be in. We aren't mesmers, so why do we feel like them now?

Also where are you getting mobility issues, are you saying you don't runt he ridiculously OP shortbow on condi thief? LOL press 5 more fam and the occasional 4 which is the most superior aoe anti-revive I've seen other than an burn guard running spirit weapos...

Psycoprophet.8107 · August 20, 2019

@Rukia.4802 said:
@mehelpu.7160 said:
@Rukia.4802 said:
@mehelpu.7160 said:
@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:
@mehelpu.7160 said:For all those who accuse thief's gameplay being toxic: I challenge you to play the entire next season as a meta s/d core thief. Minimum 300 games. No switches/rerolls, just no gimmicks, no stealth abuse, no one-shot potential, all well rounded power core s/d thief.I bet you change your mind very soon.

And then try s/d condi Daredevil or staff/staff Daredevil for 10 games. I bet you will change your mind again very soon.

I've tried both. More than 3k games as power core s/d and about 500 games as condi drd. That's why I know what am I talking about. What's your numbers as a thief?

Thief main since beta, what is your point? Are you saying DD condi is not easy af or toxic? I would rather d/p be meta again but why when I can play something with a sliver of the effort and do far better. There is 0 skill in DD condi .

The point is that condi DD is as easy and toxic as most other meta builds of all the times. They always have some toxicity build in be it CC spam, extraordinary mobility, stealth abuse, sustain abuse, condi spam or a combination of those.

The actual problem with condi drd is that people do not want to accept that their main could be beaten by a thief, especially if it was destroing other thief specs for ages. Despite the fact that condi drd sacrifices all the mobility, stealth on demand, surprise +1s, etc.

You must be joking... DD condi sacrifices that for safe nigh unlimited condi spam with sword 2 and dodge. Anyone who has mained thief knows this ish is trash cancer. We are a power burst spec... this is a sad state for the thief to be in. We aren't mesmers, so why do we feel like them now?

Also where are you getting mobility issues, are you saying you don't runt he ridiculously OP shortbow on condi thief? LOL press 5 more fam and the occasional 4 which is the most superior aoe anti-revive I've seen other than an burn guard running spirit weapos...

Power burst? Where? Thief's a power burst spec?

Sleepwalker.1398 · August 20, 2019

Anyone play a DrD Pistol/Dagger + SB with thorn runes in pvp?

Crab Fear.1624 · August 21, 2019

I noticed that the ranked q are holding out to release the condi dd's and staff troll floodgates into pvp.

Snap to it guys, this is our chance to dominate the leaderboard!

Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their necromancers!

Kageseigi.2150 · August 21, 2019

@Rukia.4802 said:We are a power burst spec... this is a sad state for the thief to be in.

I can agree with this completely. Unfortunately, our power burst potential has been nullified into submission with all of the damage mitigation and counters out there.

Trust me, I WANT my power burst back. This is coming from a glass Berserker DA/CS/T Dagger Thief (at heart).

First, they took my Dagger/Pistol burst away, but they gave me Pistol/Pistol. Then they took that burst away also.

Alas, can we at least get Preparedness made baseline? Pretty please? Don't make me beg :-(

Fat Disgrace.4275 · August 21, 2019

@Crab Fear.1624 said:I noticed that the ranked q are holding out to release the condi dd's and staff troll floodgates into pvp.
Snap to it guys, this is our chance to dominate the leaderboard!
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their necromancers!

Yeah, fine. But not like this :-/

praqtos.9035 · August 21, 2019

@"Kageseigi.2150" said:our power burst potential has been nullifiedLooks at DE MB 14-17k, oneshots through BS/DJ and 6k follows ups (everything without malice, only 1 malice on mark)

mehelpu.7160 · August 21, 2019

@Rukia.4802 said:
@mehelpu.7160 said:
@Rukia.4802 said:
@mehelpu.7160 said:
@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:
@mehelpu.7160 said:For all those who accuse thief's gameplay being toxic: I challenge you to play the entire next season as a meta s/d core thief. Minimum 300 games. No switches/rerolls, just no gimmicks, no stealth abuse, no one-shot potential, all well rounded power core s/d thief.I bet you change your mind very soon.

And then try s/d condi Daredevil or staff/staff Daredevil for 10 games. I bet you will change your mind again very soon.

I've tried both. More than 3k games as power core s/d and about 500 games as condi drd. That's why I know what am I talking about. What's your numbers as a thief?

Thief main since beta, what is your point? Are you saying DD condi is not easy af or toxic? I would rather d/p be meta again but why when I can play something with a sliver of the effort and do far better. There is 0 skill in DD condi .

The point is that condi DD is as easy and toxic as most other meta builds of all the times. They always have some toxicity build in be it CC spam, extraordinary mobility, stealth abuse, sustain abuse, condi spam or a combination of those.

The actual problem with condi drd is that people do not want to accept that their main could be beaten by a thief, especially if it was destroing other thief specs for ages. Despite the fact that condi drd sacrifices all the mobility, stealth on demand, surprise +1s, etc.

You must be joking... DD condi sacrifices that for safe nigh unlimited condi spam with sword 2 and dodge. Anyone who has mained thief knows this ish is trash cancer. We are a power burst spec... this is a sad state for the thief to be in. We aren't mesmers, so why do we feel like them now?

Also where are you getting mobility issues, are you saying you don't runt he ridiculously OP shortbow on condi thief? LOL press 5 more fam and the occasional 4 which is the most superior aoe anti-revive I've seen other than an burn guard running spirit weapos...

Not so unlimited, not so safe. Veeery ez to counter. Have you ever tried to dodge the immob and instantly leaping to the sword 2 return place? Condi drd is pretty much done after that. Condi drd in principle has a hard time when enemy follows his sword 2 return locations.

Power burst? Like a core s/d thief, last year's meta? Tell me more!

Two short bow 5's let you cover little bit more than 1200 range (1800 technically, but that's only if you stay still and don't run, which doesn't make sense most of the time) leaving you with just 3 ini (if traited lul). While warrior, ranger, engi, Mesmer, guard all have means to travel at least 1200 units while being absolutely fine to fight after that.

Only fake thief main can not know these basics..

Fat Disgrace.4275 · August 21, 2019

@mehelpu.7160 said:
@Rukia.4802 said:
@mehelpu.7160 said:
@Rukia.4802 said:
@mehelpu.7160 said:
@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:
@mehelpu.7160 said:For all those who accuse thief's gameplay being toxic: I challenge you to play the entire next season as a meta s/d core thief. Minimum 300 games. No switches/rerolls, just no gimmicks, no stealth abuse, no one-shot potential, all well rounded power core s/d thief.I bet you change your mind very soon.