Troll Unguent FROM RANGERS NEED A NERF

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@bluri.2653 said:this guy cries about every single class and plays mesmer himself feelsgoodman

Actually, he complains about everything except the things that people are actually concerned about, lol.

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

you keep with logical things but false statements, you just described how it's supposed to work but they are ignoring like 10k-15k burst while they are healing for 1k/s , if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down unless you have 3 people focusing it, now if they are healing 3-4k/s something is wrong here and need a serious nerf

You've confused yourself somewhere.

I'm a Ranger main of many years who commonly runs a Harrier/Altruism spec with essentially maximum heal output. These builds you're complaining about have like 1/3rd or less the heal factor of my Druid. The build I run not only heals double the heal factor with Troll/Rugged/Regen, but it also has Celestial Avatar access. And even with all of that additional heal factor, you still definitely take damage, and can be blown up instantly by builds with moderate to high DPS factor.

Why don't you take a good look at the reality of this from the Ranger's perspective, instead of believing that "Ranger's becoming Invulnerable with Troll Unguent."

Scroll to 14:00 exactly to skip to where the 1v1 footage starts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEJwTjfSYlA

As a side note, I'd also like to point out that the 2nd 1v1 in the video is against Dwayna's Incarnate, which is testimony to how much freaking damage a Firebrand can pump out in 1v1s while still being a support build. Pretty crazy.

you take dmg only when troll unguent is off and when you use it your life goes to full very fast, your own video show that, sure with druid you can heal even more and heal when it's off, but there's variants of your build with soulbeasts and rangers so they can dmg alot and be immune for the whole 8s

There are many points in that video where he takes damage while TU is active.

At this point, you have to be trolling.

he takes the dmg and out heal it then go to full life, it's stronger than infuse light, at least infuse light you can stop attacking

You said "you take dmg only when troll unguent is off".

The video shows him taking damage when troll unguent is on.

You are lying.

Now you change what you say to "oh, he takes the damage, but he heals it back".

Why are you changing what you're saying?

if you can out heal the dmg it's the same as not taking dmg, it's working like a barrier but you get hp instead

[Ragnar.4257]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:for some reason they

turn invunerable

for the whole 8s even if you burst them they are healing more than on the description

@SeikeNz.3526 said:this skill is not supposed to

ignore damage

and it's

@SeikeNz.3526 said:funny because thats how it's working right now, if your skill deal 10k dmg it

ignore all the dmg

and heal the ranger

@SeikeNz.3526 said:it's not the first time, also they aren't, they just

ignore dmg while on troll unguent

, they do alot of dmg, it's not really ignoring dmg because if you focus them with 3 they die but they are healing way more than it's supposed to heal

@SeikeNz.3526 said:you keep with logical things but false statements, you just described how it's supposed to work but

they are ignoring like 10k-15k burst

while they are healing for 1k/s , if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now

their life never goes down

unless you have 3 people focusing it, now if they are healing 3-4k/s something is wrong here and need a serious nerf

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

you take dmg only when troll unguent is off

and when you use it your life goes to full very fast, your own video show that, sure with druid you can heal even more and heal when it's off, but there's variants of your build with soulbeasts and rangers so they can dmg alot and be immune for the whole 8s

You still want to claim you never said they don't take damage?

You still going down that line?

[Ragnar.4257]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down

Here, let me help you.

You claim that even if you hit for 10k, their hp won't go down.

You said this.

You are claiming that TU heals for more than 10k hp/s ? Or are you claiming that it actually makes them invulnerable?

In either case, your evidence is...... where?

Do you really think you are the only person who has noticed this? Over the last 7+ years, more than 1 million players, nobody noticed, but now you buy the game in 2019 and you're the first to find it?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:The heal is fine the real main issues with ranger are

• none elite builds being able to use elite map pets (one of which provides way too much in terms of both damage and utility which is why its used in almost every competitive build)
• gs block duration is far too long for the short cd it has its basically stronger than warrior shield block with a counter attack option not sure this should be a thing something needs to change here either the duration of the block or the cd of the block.
• rangers have some pretty busted boon generation

The ranger heals are actually fine and well balanced imoTroll Unguant takes basically 9 seconds to complete its full healing potential if you include the half second cast time if the ranger is low enough Troll Unguant is one of the worst heals they can take because you dont get a burst of healing on cast. The reason Troll Unguant looks strong is because when used at half or high health percentages ranger has hella tools to ensure they can avoid, block, or just disengage all together.

I would literally argue that if only druids could take smoke scale because its a pet that came with HoT then Ranger would be tone down hella hard with just that change alone.

Ranger the combo of warrior meets thief with lesser draw backs of both of those professions in one.

I dont know much about range man, but when I look at their boon and see 3min swiftness and 1min of fury i cringe inside, something is wrong there.Also fix the kitten gazele that teleports on top of people and 1shot them, fix the pets tracking in stealth.Whats the point of using short stealth to reposition, if dumbo pet takes 3s to realize you stealthed, they continue running at you, knock you down, then bite you and they OOOH WHERE HE AT.Fix the pets that dont get retargetet by axe3 and other mesmer stuff. ( tho this one kinda makes sense per say, lets say they have a good nose. and smell the cheese ).

1. You guys need to realize that pets, unlike the kits of every other core class, have not been buffed at all. In fact, they have only ever received nerfing. The Core Ranger's class kit IS pets. While other Core Classes such as Necromancer, or Engineer, have received great buffing to their Core Class F skill kits over the years, Core Ranger pets have received nothing but nerfs. The compensation for this, are the pets from expansions. This is not an issue with the moral principle of "Should expansion content be allowed to be used on a Core Class" but rather a requirement for the Core Ranger's kit to be able to keep up with all of the buffing that other Core Class kits have received. I'm not so sure you guys quite realize how much the core pets suck. In no way do core pets even begin to equal the raw power & utility provided by something like a Reaper kit, or Scourge kit, or Photon Forge "along with all of the tool belt skills provided in the kit", or Mesmer Shatter skills.
2. Speaking of Mesmers. What about Mesmer/Mirage clone play? These things deal WAY more damage with random auto attack spam than a Ranger pet could ever hope to do, even while landing a top tier combo with it. The clones can also evade attacks and be combined with several other Mesmer functions that grant the Mesmer more utility with those clones than the pets on a Ranger. The Clones also can be constantly perpetually cycled, ever present, and never on a nearly 1 minute death cool down. So why all of the special hate for Ranger pets? Well it's real simple, there is a special annoyance people get when an AI follows them in melee range. It gives this "feeling" of being 2v1d. I notice that people complain about Bambi & the Smokescale, but never complain about my Bristleback, even though the Bristleback is actually landing a lot more consistent damage on the player than the melee pets because his projectile graphics are nearly invisible on autos and it's hard to see the F2 burst coming when he's sitting 500+ range off node and not following you. But see that's exactly it, that "Feeling" of being 2v1'd isn't there when it isn't a Bambi or Smokescale following them around. This is the same reason why people somehow don't make the connection that Mesmer clones are just stronger pets in every way than Ranger pets, because the large majority of them are ranged like Bristleback. So there is a lack of "feeling" that special getting 1vX'd feeling.
3. Also, stop embellishing this "I got 1shot by Bambi stuff." Man, I'm a Ranger main of 8 years, I've been playing every season since seasons began and even before. I've been playing all this season as well, in the current patching we are discussing. I have never once myself landed even a meme build version of a maximized Bambi strike, for a little more than a standard Maul would hit, and that's if you really really go out of your way to design a build around such nonsense. Designing a build around landing meme Bambi strikes renders such a useless kitten build that isn't even worth running. With a build like that, you're waiting for the stars to align so you can land a meme 10k strike from Bambi, as you're getting shrekt by some Holosmith or Spellbreaker. It isn't worth it at all. Realistically on more standardized builds, you're looking at maybe 4k to 6k strikes from Bambi, which is hardly a 1 shot, and definitely far less damage than the kit provided by a Reaper or Holosmith. It's just that you don't feel 2v1'd when other classes get on you. And if you are seriously getting hit by friggin "headbutt", my dudes... learn to dodge roll, or simply... walk away from the pet when he stops & stands still and obviously visually puts his head down for the wind up animation into Headbutt. It's like almost as obvious as Earth Shaker man. Come on, l2p.

Anyway, the truth to this garbage complaining about Ranger pets is just that people find it annoying that something with vitality is following them around dealing damage at all. Furthermore I'd like to point out that you shouldn't greatly embellish claims like "3 minutes of swiftness - 1 minute of fury" come on now boys. Ranger has just as much access to boons as every other class right now. In fact, there are quite a few classes that greatly outshine the Ranger in terms of boon pumping, AKA: Firebrand, Heralds, Weavers. Or look at these:

• "Ranger the combo of warrior meets thief with lesser draw backs of both of those professions in one." Yeah yeah, that's why Warrior & Thief sees a ton of representation in competitive play but Ranger sees zero. Makes sense.
• "Also fix the kitten gazele that teleports on top of people and 1shot them, fix the pets tracking in stealth." It doesn't 1 shot anything and it doesn't teleport. If anything, what you're experiencing is desynch error, which happens with everything in the game from time to time.

Just try to understand the difference between when something is actually overpowered, and when something is just an annoying mechanic to you.

Im not complaining about bambi damage, im complaining about bambi being glichy as fuck and about pets being broken and ignoring stealth, had times where pet just walks thorough wall to charge me, thats fucked up.Clones unlike pets die to 1 hit, and pet is constant pressure, they should provide utility only, ranger shouldnt be allowed to hide behind a wall and watch you get kicked for 2-3k by a pet, and if you kill it, he just resummons a new one or MeRgEs WiTh It.I like playing glassy builds, makes fights more on edge for me, and properly kiting and dodging hits only to have pet glich throught a wall and chunk me for 70% of my HP is infuriating.Let me repeat, I DONT WANT PET DMG TO BE NERFED, I WANT PETS TO BE FIXED BUG WISE, no tracking stealth, no running through walls and no randomly teleporting( warriors do that too sometimes somehow ??? the fuq )Also if a class can get 3min of swiftness then there is something not right. Just my opinion here but hey mb all those 3min of swiftness are overkill.TBH nerfing swiftness would buff ranger, becouse if you steal it you gain less? like you gonna have it perma anyways. LoL

[ZDragon.3046]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:The heal is fine the real main issues with ranger are

• none elite builds being able to use elite map pets (one of which provides way too much in terms of both damage and utility which is why its used in almost every competitive build)
• gs block duration is far too long for the short cd it has its basically stronger than warrior shield block with a counter attack option not sure this should be a thing something needs to change here either the duration of the block or the cd of the block.
• rangers have some pretty busted boon generation

The ranger heals are actually fine and well balanced imoTroll Unguant takes basically 9 seconds to complete its full healing potential if you include the half second cast time if the ranger is low enough Troll Unguant is one of the worst heals they can take because you dont get a burst of healing on cast. The reason Troll Unguant looks strong is because when used at half or high health percentages ranger has hella tools to ensure they can avoid, block, or just disengage all together.

I would literally argue that if only druids could take smoke scale because its a pet that came with HoT then Ranger would be tone down hella hard with just that change alone.

Ranger the combo of warrior meets thief with lesser draw backs of both of those professions in one.

I dont know much about range man, but when I look at their boon and see 3min swiftness and 1min of fury i cringe inside, something is wrong there.Also fix the kitten gazele that teleports on top of people and 1shot them, fix the pets tracking in stealth.Whats the point of using short stealth to reposition, if dumbo pet takes 3s to realize you stealthed, they continue running at you, knock you down, then bite you and they OOOH WHERE HE AT.Fix the pets that dont get retargetet by axe3 and other mesmer stuff. ( tho this one kinda makes sense per say, lets say they have a good nose. and smell the cheese ).

1. You guys need to realize that pets, unlike the kits of every other core class, have not been buffed at all. In fact, they have only ever received nerfing. The Core Ranger's class kit IS pets. While other Core Classes such as Necromancer, or Engineer, have received great buffing to their Core Class F skill kits over the years, Core Ranger pets have received nothing but nerfs. The compensation for this, are the pets from expansions. This is not an issue with the moral principle of "Should expansion content be allowed to be used on a Core Class" but rather a requirement for the Core Ranger's kit to be able to keep up with all of the buffing that other Core Class kits have received. I'm not so sure you guys quite realize how much the core pets suck. In no way do core pets even begin to equal the raw power & utility provided by something like a Reaper kit, or Scourge kit, or Photon Forge "along with all of the tool belt skills provided in the kit", or Mesmer Shatter skills.

Technically speaking incorrect they are indirectly buffed via the beast mastery line the reason that they pets are not directly buffed is because for some reason anet has not duplicated pets apart from mobs in the open world, in other words if they buff the standard wolf pet all the wolf AI's in open world as result get a buff along with it.

Thus the solution to this problem was buffing beast mastery so that it only effects the rangers pets and thats how they buff ranger pets in general which means that all pets buffs are dependent upon the beast mastery line. The few pets that have received nerfs i think we can agree were rightly justified, the most notable one being bristle back machine gun.

HoT and PoF pets are stronger because they are designed better, have more effective attacks and more modern take on AI design in a nutshell they have better mechanics, move faster, and have a higher chance to hit you even without the beast-mastery improving them because their base designs even in the open world are just generally better.

Keep in mind that as i said all you see is smoke scale 99% of the time in 1 of the 2 slots out of all the HoT and PoF pets that could be there its likely a reason for that. Lets not dumb it down smokescale is awesome and one of the best if not THE BEST ranger pet in the game overall. This is fine for this to be that case but i just think it does quite a bit when you consider its potentials, porting attacks, soul beast fusion gives the player this attack, smoke aoe that can be used for blinding projectiles or additional stealth access its just up there.

As for the rest of the stuff you wrote after this im assume you are addressing Leon I didnt really bring mesmer into this. Ill only reply to the bits i think might be addressed more at me to shorten things up.

Anyway, the truth to this garbage complaining about Ranger pets is just that people find it annoying that something with vitality is following them around dealing damage at all. Furthermore I'd like to point out that you shouldn't greatly embellish claims like "3 minutes of swiftness - 1 minute of fury" come on now boys. Ranger has just as much access to boons as every other class right now. In fact, there are quite a few classes that greatly outshine the Ranger in terms of boon pumping, AKA: Firebrand, Heralds, Weavers. Or look at these:

Boons in general need to come down that includes rangers thats all ill say here.

• "Ranger the combo of warrior meets thief with lesser draw backs of both of those professions in one." Yeah yeah, that's why Warrior & Thief sees a ton of representation in competitive play but Ranger sees zero. Makes sense.

Not sure what competitive play you are looking at.I guess competitive play means only what makes it to streams and not the majority of everyone else who plays generally. Ranger was not on the top winning team there for nothing what so ever is wrong with it... this is not how things work. If ranger is not in competitive "at all" then something is wrong.

You are allowed to have your own opinion on what you consider competitive and what you dont but i consider any environment where you compete in a setting of victory or defeat against other real players be it wvw, ranked, or even un ranked as competitive play. You are competing with a or against other real life people. IF you only want to consider the best of the best or only high end toruny streams the only true competitive play the the game is doomed.

The idea of only or trying to always justify balancing around specifically the top percentile is still a strange concept to me. Most people dont and wont play at that level so why focus on it so drastically. Especially right now where the pool that makes up competitive play is all kinds of jacked up by win trades, bots, and a whole ton of other issues like solo vs duo q etc.

Just try to understand the difference between when something is actually overpowered

We can only ask you to do the same but it might be hard to see it while using it. Unless you dont main it. Some times you dont know how strong something is even if you main it till you fight it with something else.

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down

Here, let me help you.

You claim that even if you hit for 10k, their hp won't go down.

You said this.

You are claiming that TU heals for more than 10k hp/s ? Or are you claiming that it actually makes them invulnerable?

In either case, your evidence is...... where?

he posted a video you can see it if you want, after every TU he never get his life down

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@bluri.2653 said:this guy cries about every single class and plays mesmer himself feelsgoodman

Actually, he complains about everything except the things that people are actually concerned about, lol.

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

you keep with logical things but false statements, you just described how it's supposed to work but they are ignoring like 10k-15k burst while they are healing for 1k/s , if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down unless you have 3 people focusing it, now if they are healing 3-4k/s something is wrong here and need a serious nerf

You've confused yourself somewhere.

I'm a Ranger main of many years who commonly runs a Harrier/Altruism spec with essentially maximum heal output. These builds you're complaining about have like 1/3rd or less the heal factor of my Druid. The build I run not only heals double the heal factor with Troll/Rugged/Regen, but it also has Celestial Avatar access. And even with all of that additional heal factor, you still definitely take damage, and can be blown up instantly by builds with moderate to high DPS factor.

Why don't you take a good look at the reality of this from the Ranger's perspective, instead of believing that "Ranger's becoming Invulnerable with Troll Unguent."

Scroll to 14:00 exactly to skip to where the 1v1 footage starts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEJwTjfSYlA

As a side note, I'd also like to point out that the 2nd 1v1 in the video is against Dwayna's Incarnate, which is testimony to how much freaking damage a Firebrand can pump out in 1v1s while still being a support build. Pretty crazy.

you take dmg only when troll unguent is off and when you use it your life goes to full very fast, your own video show that, sure with druid you can heal even more and heal when it's off, but there's variants of your build with soulbeasts and rangers so they can dmg alot and be immune for the whole 8s

There are many points in that video where he takes damage while TU is active.

At this point, you have to be trolling.

he takes the dmg and out heal it then go to full life, it's stronger than infuse light, at least infuse light you can stop attacking

You said "you take dmg only when troll unguent is off".

The video shows him taking damage when troll unguent is on.

You are lying.

Now you change what you say to "oh, he takes the damage, but he heals it back".

Why are you changing what you're saying?

if you can out heal the dmg it's the same as not taking dmg, it's working like a barrier but you get hp instead

Dude you're having a real hard time actualizing what's happening here.

Regardless of what "You are seeing on your screen visually and what your brain wants to make of it", there is one thing going on here that is certainly true. Let's look at a couple different examples to stress the point made:

• A Warrior uses https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Healing and heals himself for roughly 10k health. It has a 25s CD. The Warrior can heal himself every 25s, for roughly 10k health. The heal happens instantly and it is only 10k health gained and only happens once every 25s.
• A Ranger uses https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Troll_Unguent and heals himself for roughly 10k health. It has a 25s CD. The Ranger can heal himself every 25s, for roughly 10k health. The heal happens slowly over 8s, but it is still only 10k health gained and only happens once every 25s.

It is definitely true that the Ranger's Troll Unguent is doing nothing different from the Warrior's Natural Healing, outside of happening more slowly.

[Ragnar.4257]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down

Here, let me help you.

You claim that even if you hit for 10k, their hp won't go down.

You said this.

You are claiming that TU heals for more than 10k hp/s ? Or are you claiming that it actually makes them invulnerable?

In either case, your evidence is...... where?

he posted a video you can see it if you want, after every TU he never get his life down

In the video, timestamp 17:11

TU is active.

HP goes down from 15922 to 13768.

You are lying.

[Zexanima.7851]

TU is strong but I think "We heal as one!" is stronger. I would rather them work on ranger's dumb amount of ranged burst paired with good melee burst. They should have to sacrifice one for the other. Either strong ranged or strong melee, not both.

[Ragnar.4257]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down

Here, let me help you.

You claim that even if you hit for 10k, their hp won't go down.

You said this.

You are claiming that TU heals for more than 10k hp/s ? Or are you claiming that it actually makes them invulnerable?

In either case, your evidence is...... where?

he posted a video you can see it if you want, after every TU he never get his life down

In the video, timestamp 17:50

TU is active.

HP goes down from 14713 to 11666.

You are lying.

[Ragnar.4257]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down

Here, let me help you.

You claim that even if you hit for 10k, their hp won't go down.

You said this.

You are claiming that TU heals for more than 10k hp/s ? Or are you claiming that it actually makes them invulnerable?

In either case, your evidence is...... where?

he posted a video you can see it if you want, after every TU he never get his life down

In the video, timestamp 21:41

TU is active.

HP goes down from 12150 to 8675.

You are lying.

[Ragnar.4257]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down

Here, let me help you.

You claim that even if you hit for 10k, their hp won't go down.

You said this.

You are claiming that TU heals for more than 10k hp/s ? Or are you claiming that it actually makes them invulnerable?

In either case, your evidence is...... where?

he posted a video you can see it if you want, after every TU he never get his life down

In the video, timestamp 23:59

TU is active.

HP goes down from 11034 to 9442.

You are lying.

[Ragnar.4257]

Why would you tell a lie that is so easily dis-provable?

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down

Here, let me help you.

You claim that even if you hit for 10k, their hp won't go down.

You said this.

You are claiming that TU heals for more than 10k hp/s ? Or are you claiming that it actually makes them invulnerable?

In either case, your evidence is...... where?

he posted a video you can see it if you want, after every TU he never get his life down

In the video, timestamp 17:11

TU is active.

HP goes down from 15922 to 13768.

You are lying.

yep then 1s later he is full life again

[Ragnar.4257]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down

Here, let me help you.

You claim that even if you hit for 10k, their hp won't go down.

You said this.

You are claiming that TU heals for more than 10k hp/s ? Or are you claiming that it actually makes them invulnerable?

In either case, your evidence is...... where?

he posted a video you can see it if you want, after every TU he never get his life down

In the video, timestamp 17:11

TU is active.

HP goes down from 15922 to 13768.

You are lying.

yep then 1s later he is full life again

That is different from "he never get his life down". His life does go down. Then it goes back up.

You have to be trolling, you just have to be.

[SeikeNz.3526]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down

Here, let me help you.

You claim that even if you hit for 10k, their hp won't go down.

You said this.

You are claiming that TU heals for more than 10k hp/s ? Or are you claiming that it actually makes them invulnerable?

In either case, your evidence is...... where?

he posted a video you can see it if you want, after every TU he never get his life down

In the video, timestamp 17:11

TU is active.

HP goes down from 15922 to 13768.

You are lying.

yep then 1s later he is full life again

That is different from "he never get his life down". His life does go down. Then it goes back up.

You have to be trolling, you just have to be.

should i change the words? for 8s unless you have 3 people attacking it he never going to die, nerf TU PLS

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:The heal is fine the real main issues with ranger are

• none elite builds being able to use elite map pets (one of which provides way too much in terms of both damage and utility which is why its used in almost every competitive build)
• gs block duration is far too long for the short cd it has its basically stronger than warrior shield block with a counter attack option not sure this should be a thing something needs to change here either the duration of the block or the cd of the block.
• rangers have some pretty busted boon generation

The ranger heals are actually fine and well balanced imoTroll Unguant takes basically 9 seconds to complete its full healing potential if you include the half second cast time if the ranger is low enough Troll Unguant is one of the worst heals they can take because you dont get a burst of healing on cast. The reason Troll Unguant looks strong is because when used at half or high health percentages ranger has hella tools to ensure they can avoid, block, or just disengage all together.

I would literally argue that if only druids could take smoke scale because its a pet that came with HoT then Ranger would be tone down hella hard with just that change alone.

Ranger the combo of warrior meets thief with lesser draw backs of both of those professions in one.

I dont know much about range man, but when I look at their boon and see 3min swiftness and 1min of fury i cringe inside, something is wrong there.Also fix the kitten gazele that teleports on top of people and 1shot them, fix the pets tracking in stealth.Whats the point of using short stealth to reposition, if dumbo pet takes 3s to realize you stealthed, they continue running at you, knock you down, then bite you and they OOOH WHERE HE AT.Fix the pets that dont get retargetet by axe3 and other mesmer stuff. ( tho this one kinda makes sense per say, lets say they have a good nose. and smell the cheese ).

1. You guys need to realize that pets, unlike the kits of every other core class, have not been buffed at all. In fact, they have only ever received nerfing. The Core Ranger's class kit IS pets. While other Core Classes such as Necromancer, or Engineer, have received great buffing to their Core Class F skill kits over the years, Core Ranger pets have received nothing but nerfs. The compensation for this, are the pets from expansions. This is not an issue with the moral principle of "Should expansion content be allowed to be used on a Core Class" but rather a requirement for the Core Ranger's kit to be able to keep up with all of the buffing that other Core Class kits have received. I'm not so sure you guys quite realize how much the core pets suck. In no way do core pets even begin to equal the raw power & utility provided by something like a Reaper kit, or Scourge kit, or Photon Forge "along with all of the tool belt skills provided in the kit", or Mesmer Shatter skills.
2. Speaking of Mesmers. What about Mesmer/Mirage clone play? These things deal WAY more damage with random auto attack spam than a Ranger pet could ever hope to do, even while landing a top tier combo with it. The clones can also evade attacks and be combined with several other Mesmer functions that grant the Mesmer more utility with those clones than the pets on a Ranger. The Clones also can be constantly perpetually cycled, ever present, and never on a nearly 1 minute death cool down. So why all of the special hate for Ranger pets? Well it's real simple, there is a special annoyance people get when an AI follows them in melee range. It gives this "feeling" of being 2v1d. I notice that people complain about Bambi & the Smokescale, but never complain about my Bristleback, even though the Bristleback is actually landing a lot more consistent damage on the player than the melee pets because his projectile graphics are nearly invisible on autos and it's hard to see the F2 burst coming when he's sitting 500+ range off node and not following you. But see that's exactly it, that "Feeling" of being 2v1'd isn't there when it isn't a Bambi or Smokescale following them around. This is the same reason why people somehow don't make the connection that Mesmer clones are just stronger pets in every way than Ranger pets, because the large majority of them are ranged like Bristleback. So there is a lack of "feeling" that special getting 1vX'd feeling.
3. Also, stop embellishing this "I got 1shot by Bambi stuff." Man, I'm a Ranger main of 8 years, I've been playing every season since seasons began and even before. I've been playing all this season as well, in the current patching we are discussing. I have never once myself landed even a meme build version of a maximized Bambi strike, for a little more than a standard Maul would hit, and that's if you really really go out of your way to design a build around such nonsense. Designing a build around landing meme Bambi strikes renders such a useless kitten build that isn't even worth running. With a build like that, you're waiting for the stars to align so you can land a meme 10k strike from Bambi, as you're getting shrekt by some Holosmith or Spellbreaker. It isn't worth it at all. Realistically on more standardized builds, you're looking at maybe 4k to 6k strikes from Bambi, which is hardly a 1 shot, and definitely far less damage than the kit provided by a Reaper or Holosmith. It's just that you don't feel 2v1'd when other classes get on you. And if you are seriously getting hit by friggin "headbutt", my dudes... learn to dodge roll, or simply... walk away from the pet when he stops & stands still and obviously visually puts his head down for the wind up animation into Headbutt. It's like almost as obvious as Earth Shaker man. Come on, l2p.

Anyway, the truth to this garbage complaining about Ranger pets is just that people find it annoying that something with vitality is following them around dealing damage at all. Furthermore I'd like to point out that you shouldn't greatly embellish claims like "3 minutes of swiftness - 1 minute of fury" come on now boys. Ranger has just as much access to boons as every other class right now. In fact, there are quite a few classes that greatly outshine the Ranger in terms of boon pumping, AKA: Firebrand, Heralds, Weavers. Or look at these:

• "Ranger the combo of warrior meets thief with lesser draw backs of both of those professions in one." Yeah yeah, that's why Warrior & Thief sees a ton of representation in competitive play but Ranger sees zero. Makes sense.
• "Also fix the kitten gazele that teleports on top of people and 1shot them, fix the pets tracking in stealth." It doesn't 1 shot anything and it doesn't teleport. If anything, what you're experiencing is desynch error, which happens with everything in the game from time to time.

Just try to understand the difference between when something is actually overpowered, and when something is just an annoying mechanic to you.

Im not complaining about bambi damage, im complaining about bambi being glichy as kitten and about pets being broken and ignoring stealth, had times where pet just walks thorough wall to charge me, thats kitten up.Clones unlike pets die to 1 hit, and pet is constant pressure, they should provide utility only, ranger shouldnt be allowed to hide behind a wall and watch you get kicked for 2-3k by a pet, and if you kill it, he just resummons a new one or MeRgEs WiTh It.I like playing glassy builds, makes fights more on edge for me, and properly kiting and dodging hits only to have pet glich throught a wall and chunk me for 70% of my HP is infuriating.Let me repeat, I DONT WANT PET DMG TO BE NERFED, I WANT PETS TO BE FIXED BUG WISE, no tracking stealth, no running through walls and no randomly teleporting( warriors do that too sometimes somehow ??? the fuq )Also if a class can get 3min of swiftness then there is something not right. Just my opinion here but hey mb all those 3min of swiftness are overkill.TBH nerfing swiftness would buff ranger, becouse if you steal it you gain less? like you gonna have it perma anyways. LoL

Honestly slb trade off should have been access to only one pet since their bond is so strong that the ranger gets boosted when merged. Also no pet should have hard cc as that's to strong of a effect to be passive, hard cc as a acquired skill once merged is more than fine. Evade on auto was also fine and the exploit rangers used for the evade shoulda been fixed instead of out right removing the evade.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

It's weird I've been burst many times and downed with TU active to the point I almost prefer whao, guess I just suck at ranger lol

[ZDragon.3046]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:The heal is fine the real main issues with ranger are

• none elite builds being able to use elite map pets (one of which provides way too much in terms of both damage and utility which is why its used in almost every competitive build)
• gs block duration is far too long for the short cd it has its basically stronger than warrior shield block with a counter attack option not sure this should be a thing something needs to change here either the duration of the block or the cd of the block.
• rangers have some pretty busted boon generation

The ranger heals are actually fine and well balanced imoTroll Unguant takes basically 9 seconds to complete its full healing potential if you include the half second cast time if the ranger is low enough Troll Unguant is one of the worst heals they can take because you dont get a burst of healing on cast. The reason Troll Unguant looks strong is because when used at half or high health percentages ranger has hella tools to ensure they can avoid, block, or just disengage all together.

I would literally argue that if only druids could take smoke scale because its a pet that came with HoT then Ranger would be tone down hella hard with just that change alone.

Ranger the combo of warrior meets thief with lesser draw backs of both of those professions in one.

I dont know much about range man, but when I look at their boon and see 3min swiftness and 1min of fury i cringe inside, something is wrong there.Also fix the kitten gazele that teleports on top of people and 1shot them, fix the pets tracking in stealth.Whats the point of using short stealth to reposition, if dumbo pet takes 3s to realize you stealthed, they continue running at you, knock you down, then bite you and they OOOH WHERE HE AT.Fix the pets that dont get retargetet by axe3 and other mesmer stuff. ( tho this one kinda makes sense per say, lets say they have a good nose. and smell the cheese ).

1. You guys need to realize that pets, unlike the kits of every other core class, have not been buffed at all. In fact, they have only ever received nerfing. The Core Ranger's class kit IS pets. While other Core Classes such as Necromancer, or Engineer, have received great buffing to their Core Class F skill kits over the years, Core Ranger pets have received nothing but nerfs. The compensation for this, are the pets from expansions. This is not an issue with the moral principle of "Should expansion content be allowed to be used on a Core Class" but rather a requirement for the Core Ranger's kit to be able to keep up with all of the buffing that other Core Class kits have received. I'm not so sure you guys quite realize how much the core pets suck. In no way do core pets even begin to equal the raw power & utility provided by something like a Reaper kit, or Scourge kit, or Photon Forge "along with all of the tool belt skills provided in the kit", or Mesmer Shatter skills.
2. Speaking of Mesmers. What about Mesmer/Mirage clone play? These things deal WAY more damage with random auto attack spam than a Ranger pet could ever hope to do, even while landing a top tier combo with it. The clones can also evade attacks and be combined with several other Mesmer functions that grant the Mesmer more utility with those clones than the pets on a Ranger. The Clones also can be constantly perpetually cycled, ever present, and never on a nearly 1 minute death cool down. So why all of the special hate for Ranger pets? Well it's real simple, there is a special annoyance people get when an AI follows them in melee range. It gives this "feeling" of being 2v1d. I notice that people complain about Bambi & the Smokescale, but never complain about my Bristleback, even though the Bristleback is actually landing a lot more consistent damage on the player than the melee pets because his projectile graphics are nearly invisible on autos and it's hard to see the F2 burst coming when he's sitting 500+ range off node and not following you. But see that's exactly it, that "Feeling" of being 2v1'd isn't there when it isn't a Bambi or Smokescale following them around. This is the same reason why people somehow don't make the connection that Mesmer clones are just stronger pets in every way than Ranger pets, because the large majority of them are ranged like Bristleback. So there is a lack of "feeling" that special getting 1vX'd feeling.
3. Also, stop embellishing this "I got 1shot by Bambi stuff." Man, I'm a Ranger main of 8 years, I've been playing every season since seasons began and even before. I've been playing all this season as well, in the current patching we are discussing. I have never once myself landed even a meme build version of a maximized Bambi strike, for a little more than a standard Maul would hit, and that's if you really really go out of your way to design a build around such nonsense. Designing a build around landing meme Bambi strikes renders such a useless kitten build that isn't even worth running. With a build like that, you're waiting for the stars to align so you can land a meme 10k strike from Bambi, as you're getting shrekt by some Holosmith or Spellbreaker. It isn't worth it at all. Realistically on more standardized builds, you're looking at maybe 4k to 6k strikes from Bambi, which is hardly a 1 shot, and definitely far less damage than the kit provided by a Reaper or Holosmith. It's just that you don't feel 2v1'd when other classes get on you. And if you are seriously getting hit by friggin "headbutt", my dudes... learn to dodge roll, or simply... walk away from the pet when he stops & stands still and obviously visually puts his head down for the wind up animation into Headbutt. It's like almost as obvious as Earth Shaker man. Come on, l2p.

Anyway, the truth to this garbage complaining about Ranger pets is just that people find it annoying that something with vitality is following them around dealing damage at all. Furthermore I'd like to point out that you shouldn't greatly embellish claims like "3 minutes of swiftness - 1 minute of fury" come on now boys. Ranger has just as much access to boons as every other class right now. In fact, there are quite a few classes that greatly outshine the Ranger in terms of boon pumping, AKA: Firebrand, Heralds, Weavers. Or look at these:

• "Ranger the combo of warrior meets thief with lesser draw backs of both of those professions in one." Yeah yeah, that's why Warrior & Thief sees a ton of representation in competitive play but Ranger sees zero. Makes sense.
• "Also fix the kitten gazele that teleports on top of people and 1shot them, fix the pets tracking in stealth." It doesn't 1 shot anything and it doesn't teleport. If anything, what you're experiencing is desynch error, which happens with everything in the game from time to time.

Just try to understand the difference between when something is actually overpowered, and when something is just an annoying mechanic to you.

Im not complaining about bambi damage, im complaining about bambi being glichy as kitten and about pets being broken and ignoring stealth, had times where pet just walks thorough wall to charge me, thats kitten up.Clones unlike pets die to 1 hit, and pet is constant pressure, they should provide utility only, ranger shouldnt be allowed to hide behind a wall and watch you get kicked for 2-3k by a pet, and if you kill it, he just resummons a new one or MeRgEs WiTh It.I like playing glassy builds, makes fights more on edge for me, and properly kiting and dodging hits only to have pet glich throught a wall and chunk me for 70% of my HP is infuriating.Let me repeat, I DONT WANT PET DMG TO BE NERFED, I WANT PETS TO BE FIXED BUG WISE, no tracking stealth, no running through walls and no randomly teleporting( warriors do that too sometimes somehow ??? the fuq )Also if a class can get 3min of swiftness then there is something not right. Just my opinion here but hey mb all those 3min of swiftness are overkill.TBH nerfing swiftness would buff ranger, becouse if you steal it you gain less? like you gonna have it perma anyways. LoL

Honestly slb trade off should have been access to only one pet since their bond is so strong that the ranger gets boosted when merged. Also no pet should have hard cc as that's to strong of a effect to be passive, hard cc as a acquired skill is more than fine. Evade on auto was also fine and the exploit rangers used for the evade shoulda been fixed instead of out right removing the evade.

I also said this but no one will agree with that trade off. having a 1 pet limit would make a lot of sense for slb. Im fine with pets having hard cc's but they need have better tells so that a player can see them coming wihouth having to exclusively focus directly on the pet. Some pets do have kind of a visual noise effect to tell you they are performing a CC attack even when the ranger has not commanded them to but others much like the Deer pet just kind of yolo their CC attacks. It can be hard to see the deer getting ready to charge you or head flip you if you are more so trying to avoid getting hit with point blank shot or maul combo'ed etc.

Once again the evade was fine the fix should have been to just force the auto chain to restart regardless if you hit or missed the 3rd chain swing on purpose or not.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:The heal is fine the real main issues with ranger are

• none elite builds being able to use elite map pets (one of which provides way too much in terms of both damage and utility which is why its used in almost every competitive build)
• gs block duration is far too long for the short cd it has its basically stronger than warrior shield block with a counter attack option not sure this should be a thing something needs to change here either the duration of the block or the cd of the block.
• rangers have some pretty busted boon generation

The ranger heals are actually fine and well balanced imoTroll Unguant takes basically 9 seconds to complete its full healing potential if you include the half second cast time if the ranger is low enough Troll Unguant is one of the worst heals they can take because you dont get a burst of healing on cast. The reason Troll Unguant looks strong is because when used at half or high health percentages ranger has hella tools to ensure they can avoid, block, or just disengage all together.

I would literally argue that if only druids could take smoke scale because its a pet that came with HoT then Ranger would be tone down hella hard with just that change alone.

Ranger the combo of warrior meets thief with lesser draw backs of both of those professions in one.

I dont know much about range man, but when I look at their boon and see 3min swiftness and 1min of fury i cringe inside, something is wrong there.Also fix the kitten gazele that teleports on top of people and 1shot them, fix the pets tracking in stealth.Whats the point of using short stealth to reposition, if dumbo pet takes 3s to realize you stealthed, they continue running at you, knock you down, then bite you and they OOOH WHERE HE AT.Fix the pets that dont get retargetet by axe3 and other mesmer stuff. ( tho this one kinda makes sense per say, lets say they have a good nose. and smell the cheese ).

1. You guys need to realize that pets, unlike the kits of every other core class, have not been buffed at all. In fact, they have only ever received nerfing. The Core Ranger's class kit IS pets. While other Core Classes such as Necromancer, or Engineer, have received great buffing to their Core Class F skill kits over the years, Core Ranger pets have received nothing but nerfs. The compensation for this, are the pets from expansions. This is not an issue with the moral principle of "Should expansion content be allowed to be used on a Core Class" but rather a requirement for the Core Ranger's kit to be able to keep up with all of the buffing that other Core Class kits have received. I'm not so sure you guys quite realize how much the core pets suck. In no way do core pets even begin to equal the raw power & utility provided by something like a Reaper kit, or Scourge kit, or Photon Forge "along with all of the tool belt skills provided in the kit", or Mesmer Shatter skills.
2. Speaking of Mesmers. What about Mesmer/Mirage clone play? These things deal WAY more damage with random auto attack spam than a Ranger pet could ever hope to do, even while landing a top tier combo with it. The clones can also evade attacks and be combined with several other Mesmer functions that grant the Mesmer more utility with those clones than the pets on a Ranger. The Clones also can be constantly perpetually cycled, ever present, and never on a nearly 1 minute death cool down. So why all of the special hate for Ranger pets? Well it's real simple, there is a special annoyance people get when an AI follows them in melee range. It gives this "feeling" of being 2v1d. I notice that people complain about Bambi & the Smokescale, but never complain about my Bristleback, even though the Bristleback is actually landing a lot more consistent damage on the player than the melee pets because his projectile graphics are nearly invisible on autos and it's hard to see the F2 burst coming when he's sitting 500+ range off node and not following you. But see that's exactly it, that "Feeling" of being 2v1'd isn't there when it isn't a Bambi or Smokescale following them around. This is the same reason why people somehow don't make the connection that Mesmer clones are just stronger pets in every way than Ranger pets, because the large majority of them are ranged like Bristleback. So there is a lack of "feeling" that special getting 1vX'd feeling.
3. Also, stop embellishing this "I got 1shot by Bambi stuff." Man, I'm a Ranger main of 8 years, I've been playing every season since seasons began and even before. I've been playing all this season as well, in the current patching we are discussing. I have never once myself landed even a meme build version of a maximized Bambi strike, for a little more than a standard Maul would hit, and that's if you really really go out of your way to design a build around such nonsense. Designing a build around landing meme Bambi strikes renders such a useless kitten build that isn't even worth running. With a build like that, you're waiting for the stars to align so you can land a meme 10k strike from Bambi, as you're getting shrekt by some Holosmith or Spellbreaker. It isn't worth it at all. Realistically on more standardized builds, you're looking at maybe 4k to 6k strikes from Bambi, which is hardly a 1 shot, and definitely far less damage than the kit provided by a Reaper or Holosmith. It's just that you don't feel 2v1'd when other classes get on you. And if you are seriously getting hit by friggin "headbutt", my dudes... learn to dodge roll, or simply... walk away from the pet when he stops & stands still and obviously visually puts his head down for the wind up animation into Headbutt. It's like almost as obvious as Earth Shaker man. Come on, l2p.

Anyway, the truth to this garbage complaining about Ranger pets is just that people find it annoying that something with vitality is following them around dealing damage at all. Furthermore I'd like to point out that you shouldn't greatly embellish claims like "3 minutes of swiftness - 1 minute of fury" come on now boys. Ranger has just as much access to boons as every other class right now. In fact, there are quite a few classes that greatly outshine the Ranger in terms of boon pumping, AKA: Firebrand, Heralds, Weavers. Or look at these:

• "Ranger the combo of warrior meets thief with lesser draw backs of both of those professions in one." Yeah yeah, that's why Warrior & Thief sees a ton of representation in competitive play but Ranger sees zero. Makes sense.
• "Also fix the kitten gazele that teleports on top of people and 1shot them, fix the pets tracking in stealth." It doesn't 1 shot anything and it doesn't teleport. If anything, what you're experiencing is desynch error, which happens with everything in the game from time to time.

Just try to understand the difference between when something is actually overpowered, and when something is just an annoying mechanic to you.

Im not complaining about bambi damage, im complaining about bambi being glichy as kitten and about pets being broken and ignoring stealth, had times where pet just walks thorough wall to charge me, thats kitten up.Clones unlike pets die to 1 hit, and pet is constant pressure, they should provide utility only, ranger shouldnt be allowed to hide behind a wall and watch you get kicked for 2-3k by a pet, and if you kill it, he just resummons a new one or MeRgEs WiTh It.I like playing glassy builds, makes fights more on edge for me, and properly kiting and dodging hits only to have pet glich throught a wall and chunk me for 70% of my HP is infuriating.Let me repeat, I DONT WANT PET DMG TO BE NERFED, I WANT PETS TO BE FIXED BUG WISE, no tracking stealth, no running through walls and no randomly teleporting( warriors do that too sometimes somehow ??? the fuq )Also if a class can get 3min of swiftness then there is something not right. Just my opinion here but hey mb all those 3min of swiftness are overkill.TBH nerfing swiftness would buff ranger, becouse if you steal it you gain less? like you gonna have it perma anyways. LoL

1. Everything in the game tracks stealth if the current attack animation was initiated before the opponent stealth's. In other words, if I cast Rapid Fire on you right before you stealth, the Rapid Fire will continue to follow you. If Bambi charges you right before you stealth, his animation will continue to follow you. If a Warrior does Bull's Charge right before you stealth, The Bull's Charge will follow you. Ect ect, it's not a problem with a pets. It's just how the engine works with animations, and it's a good thing that it does. If it weren't for this, stealthing would become unreasonably powerful. I'm not sure what level you play at, but anyone who has ever contested rank at Plat 2+, would understand what I mean by this. It is often the only way to hit stealth heavy targets, with those slower animations that can follow them.
2. This stuff you keep talking about pets glitching around. I just don't see much of this tbh. In fact, I really just seem to intuitively dodge Ranger pets to the point that I never notice them at all. You may have a graphical error going on, if Bambis are teleporting at you like a Smokescale. Just saying.
3. Dude nothing has 3 minutes of swiftness, stop saying this stuff. The only way you could feasibly get anywhere near 3 minutes of swiftness while propagating it off just your build, is if something like a Harrier/Rune of Speed Staff Firebrand was spamming Staff 3 and Unflinching Charge on itself, along with Retreat! What you're actually experiencing, are probably Rangers going full glass with Skirmishing with Rune of Speed, and in this case they are getting Swiftness each time they weapon swap. There is no 3 minute stack of self perpetuated Swiftness. Probably more like 15s to maybe 30s, that they are able to reapply it rather often.

@"ZDragon.3046"

"all pets buffs are dependent upon the beast mastery line."

I get what you're saying here, but that's just not how they chose to do things. And people screaming "nerf pets" Is not the way to deal with anything, considering that not only are the pets not OP, but Ranger in general is not even approaching the bar of currently problematic build structures. I feel like people are tunneling visioning the idea that "Pets are an individual entity outside of the Ranger class, and we feel they are strong." No this all wrong. Pets are a part of the Ranger. Some of the Ranger's skills are in the form of the pet, rather than Sand Shades, or Tomes, or Swapping a list of utilities by swapping legends, ect ect. The Ranger which is not even approaching the bar of problematic, as clearly indicated by its complete lack of representation in more competitive AT environments or even top leaderboard play, needs those skills to remain viable, even middle way up the hierarchy of class tier strength. The only difference here between the pet and other class kits, is that the Ranger's pet being visually its own vector, makes people visually isolate that small allocation of skills from the Ranger that is on the pet, as some individual entity. It makes them feel like "They are being tag teamed by some strong AI, and other classes don't have pets, so this pet is some unfair advantage to Ranger." When the reality is that the Ranger & Pet's collective damage output, utility when paired, is a necessity to staying relevant to powerful kits like Photon Forge. Again, this whole pet thing is an illusion, and people need to identify the difference between things that are actually overpowered, and something they annoys them because they have not yet learned to how to counter play some basic mechanic.

About Smokescales:

The only reason Smokescale is so popular is because of Soulbeast merge. While merged, the Soulbeast gets a relatively quick cycling 2s Knockdown, and Smoke Assault. Smoke Assault functions exactly like Unrelenting Assault on a Power Shiro Herald. This single skill right now, is completely responsible for keeping Soulbeast viable at all. No really, this single skill is so powerful that the properly used timing of to be able to counter offensive & chase while evading and ruining someone's burst, is the only thing that allows Soulbeast to potentially brawl with other classes. Like, you have to use Smokescale right, it's not really a choice unless you're so much better than the opponent that it doesn't matter what you use. Even if you want to claim it's not "essential" it's still by far the best choice. Even while unmerged, the Smokescale deals his damage with fair accuracy due to the teleport, and often is good at landing his extra CC. But in no way is the Smokescale a big damage dealer in the way that many people like to believe. It's more that he's accurate, than a big damage dealer. Not so easy to kite Smoke Assault from a pet is what's going on here. But on Core Ranger or Druid who have no merge skills, Smokescale isn't so hot of an option unless you're leaning on its F2 skill for stealthing. The Smokescale dies a lot easier than other pets when you can't merge him for free reset and there are pets that just deal a lot heavier damage and are tankier than the Smokescale. Most Core Rangers you see using Smokescale are because they've just seen Soulbeasts use it for so long, that they imagine it is the go to pet. Most of them don't even utilize the stealth, and as such they should be taking other pets in its place while running Core or Druid.

"Not sure what competitive play you are looking at.I guess competitive play means only what makes it to streams and not the majority of everyone else who plays generally. Ranger was not on the top winning team there for nothing what so ever is wrong with it... this is not how things work. If ranger is not in competitive "at all" then something is wrong."

More like, Ranger isn't present at all in any competitive team lol. I don't think you're quite understanding to the degree that this class is not viable for tournament right now. And yeah you're damn straight something is wrong. What's wrong is that people who are like 4 months deep into this game with only 300 matches played, come in here and complain about things like Deadeye & Ranger "pretty much anything with ranged damage" because they have not yet discovered the basic mechanic of "Taking LOS seriously." Use it, it's there to use, it's part of the game. You can't expect to waddle around in the open on a $%^&ing Necromancer and not get clapped by a Deadeye that you know is in the game design. But yet this is what people do. The scope of their mind somehow only wraps around the idea of "Cool melee knights clashing together on a node" and they seriously completely ignore ranged attackers. They completely ignore things like the 4 pillars around mid in EC. They just stand there and get shot up, stay in the Silver 3/Gold 1 division, and then come in here and complain about how OP it is. And even when people mention to them to start using LOS, they refuse to alter their playstyle "Which is why they're stuck in Gold 1" because the entitlement to complain and get something annoying changed, is easier than accepting that there is ranged damage in the game, and that they need to utilize LOS in Guild Wars 2, the same way they would in some FPS. The difference between the players in competitive teams and the players who are in here complaining is this: The competitive players utilize LOS and this makes ALL ranged based builds pretty much no longer viable, which is why you don't see them at all in tournament or very very rarely, and the competitive players realize how suck Rangers are Deadeyes are which is why they aren't in here complaining. The players who are in here complaining, are literally the players who I shoot up in the open while running unranked/ranked. They are the players who for some reason, will walk at me, directly at me in the open, while I'm on a Berserker Soulbeast DPS, and never learn their lesson. They repeatedly do the same thing over and over and expect some different outcome, and then come into here on the forum and complain about it, rather than accept the basic fundamental present in literally every other game, that you do not walk across an open field towards something is high powered ranged, unless you have some tact about how you are going to reach that player to dismantle him. This idea is no different in GW2 than it is in any game, and nor should it be. But if players want to stress that "They don't like how the dynamic feels in this game with ranged attackers" I can't argue with that. They have every right to say they just don't like how it feels and would rather see it not in the game. But I will always argue when they say "The ranged is OP" because it isn't. Again, they need to understand the difference between actually OP and just annoying or something they don't like.

"We can only ask you to do the same but it might be hard to see it while using it. Unless you dont main it. Some times you dont know how strong something is even if you main it till you fight it with something else."

lol dude come on man. I play every class from time to time. And don't try to disregard the knowledge of someone who mains a class. The people who main the same class each season are the people who notice things like this: "Well last season I would tear this guy up. This season after my nerf and his buff, I can't beat this guy 1v1 on a node anymore. He isn't doing anything different than he ever has, his class is just stronger now, and mine was nerfed a bit." Not everyone is ultra bias dude. There are a lot of people who really do just want this game to be balanced. You've got to understand that when these types of players say "Dude my class is just suck right now in this meta" they aren't lying. They are noticing that after some patch changes, buffs in some places, nerfs in others, that their rating dropped from like 1600-1700 play down to like bottom 1500. They also notice the other people they've know for years who play the same class they do, are also experiencing similar rating drops due to nerfs vs. buffs. So we can INB4 this "You main it so you don't know what it feels like to fight it! You're probably biased!" garbage, because I'm not. I was a main advocate in the nerf suggestion vs. Sic Em. Just think about it that for a bit. Consider what that means.

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down

Here, let me help you.

You claim that even if you hit for 10k, their hp won't go down.

You said this.

You are claiming that TU heals for more than 10k hp/s ? Or are you claiming that it actually makes them invulnerable?

In either case, your evidence is...... where?

he posted a video you can see it if you want, after every TU he never get his life down

Yeah dude, it's called a defensive phase, or a reset, or a heal cycle. Generally during a reset, the idea is to not get hit. I'm not going to walk into a Photon Forge and face tank a heavy burst while I'm phasing a reset, not unless I have an invuln ready to heal while counter pressuring with Axe 5 or something. And this is exactly what everyone has been explaining to you. You're not just seeing "Troll Unguent alone at work", you're going against mixed skill use and counter plays where a Ranger is making sure his heal over 8s gets to work. I mean I don't understand why this is confusing you.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 I understand how stealth tracking works, pets on the other hand will RUN after you in stealth, and THEN attack.I bet attack command is coded as attack that persists until finished to allow something like this to exist, another thing is that pet does follow up attack after you stealth, hit1 ->hit2 and then they leave.

[Swagger.1459]

@"SeikeNz.3526" Before you jump on the forums again and ask for more nerfs, you should learn more about the game.... I'll be helpful bc you're still having a tough time, or never bothered to look at the wiki.

You attack ranger and take them below 50% health threshold…

Trait kicks in at 50% health threshhold…

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stoneform

What does Stoneform trait do?

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Signet_of_Stone
• “Signet. You and your pet take no damage from attacks. You and your pet are still susceptible to conditions and control effects. Signet of Stone (2½s): Take no damage from incoming attacks.”

Ranger then uses heal…

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Troll_Unguent
• “Survival. You and your pet regenerate health over time. Health per second: 1,062 (0.12) Duration: 8 seconds”

Ranger then pops a slot skill…

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stone
• “Signet Passive: Improves toughness for you and your pet. Signet Active: You and your pet take no damage from attacks. You and your pet are still susceptible to conditions and control effects. Signet of Stone: 180 Toughness. Signet of Stone (3s): Take no damage from incoming attacks.”

Ranger can also use this if running Soulbeast and bear…

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defy_Pain
• “You take no damage for the next few seconds.” (3 seconds of damage immunity, but still susceptible to condition and control effects)

Good luck!

[Axl.8924]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@bluri.2653 said:this guy cries about every single class and plays mesmer himself feelsgoodman

Actually, he complains about everything except the things that people are actually concerned about, lol.

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

you keep with logical things but false statements, you just described how it's supposed to work but they are ignoring like 10k-15k burst while they are healing for 1k/s , if i hit for 10k and they heal 1k/s they are supposed to lose 9k hp but now their life never goes down unless you have 3 people focusing it, now if they are healing 3-4k/s something is wrong here and need a serious nerf

You've confused yourself somewhere.

I'm a Ranger main of many years who commonly runs a Harrier/Altruism spec with essentially maximum heal output. These builds you're complaining about have like 1/3rd or less the heal factor of my Druid. The build I run not only heals double the heal factor with Troll/Rugged/Regen, but it also has Celestial Avatar access. And even with all of that additional heal factor, you still definitely take damage, and can be blown up instantly by builds with moderate to high DPS factor.

Why don't you take a good look at the reality of this from the Ranger's perspective, instead of believing that "Ranger's becoming Invulnerable with Troll Unguent."

Scroll to 14:00 exactly to skip to where the 1v1 footage starts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEJwTjfSYlA

As a side note, I'd also like to point out that the 2nd 1v1 in the video is against Dwayna's Incarnate, which is testimony to how much freaking damage a Firebrand can pump out in 1v1s while still being a support build. Pretty crazy.

you take dmg only when troll unguent is off and when you use it your life goes to full very fast, your own video show that, sure with druid you can heal even more and heal when it's off, but there's variants of your build with soulbeasts and rangers so they can dmg alot and be immune for the whole 8s

There are many points in that video where he takes damage while TU is active.

At this point, you have to be trolling.

he takes the dmg and out heal it then go to full life, it's stronger than infuse light, at least infuse light you can stop attacking

Isn't part of it because of that dodge build thing too? he mentioned something about CA and heals with dodge combined with prot and other buffs plus he's inflicting weakness which is a potent debuff on his opponents, and strong condi cleanses which is already super strong.

IF you ask me it's not 1 thing, but multiple things working together very clever druid.

Man I am tempted to play druid just because it looks interesting to be that sustainy

[Bazsi.2734]

Can't decide if OP is baiting or not. And that's actually genius... so this MUST be bait. Congrats.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Bazsi.2734 said:Can't decide if OP is baiting or not. And that's actually genius... so this MUST be bait. Congrats.

you give him too much credit, he whines on everything.If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.OP is a dum dum.